Poll: Manhattan or Brooklyn?

Given Princess's announcement of the shift from Manhattan to Broklyn (see here: http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1283 ) what do cruise critics think of the trade off? A new (hopedfully better - but lets face it, it couldn't be much worse) terminal in Brooklyn, without the Manhattan sail past - or the current one on Manhattan?

Love The Qm2 And The Qe2 But Before I Go To Brooklyn I Will Go To Hoboken And Use Rcl Or Whoever Else Will Be At The Old Military Terminal. Save The Tolls And The Hassle Of The Big Apple

My Brooklyn vote was really on the fence. I did it to highlight the fact that those responsible for the Manhattan Piers should really keep them up to date. It is inevitable that companies will move to better facilities after a certain point, if the gap between what "could be" is too far beyond the reality of "what is."

Without a doubt though, the loss of the Manhattan skyline sail-by is a serious factor. When I was considering what cruise we would take, the sail-by weighted significantly into selecting the QM2 Transatlantic. When I read the news last night, I looked at a map of New York City and, to my disappointment, the Red Hook area is south of the southern-most point of Manhattan. I am relieved our June 9 sailing is not affected.

I wonder how carefully Carnival considered the skyline sail-by as a positive marketing factor, when deciding to abandon it to move to Brooklyn. Wonder if they surveyed people to find out what was more important - a more modern, comfortable pier that was more accessible, or that magical moment of sailing by the Manhattan skyline.

Shame on the group that controls the Manhattan pier for allowing things to get so shabby, costly and inconvenient that this sort of thing happened. And on the other side of the fence, does Carnival/Princess/Cunard really understand (and/or care about?) the tradition that they are breaking here?

Paul

I voted for Manhattan. Obviously the NYC piers are out of date for the mega ships of today - In the 1970s there could be 4-6 ships in port & there never was the problems like todays with just 2 or 3 ships in.

Anyone that has sailed out of NYC knows the grand vistas as the ship sails down the Hudson. It is a classic & exciting way to start or end a voyage.

As far as leaving from Red Hook or Hoboken - believe me these are not nice areas. Parts of Brookly are nice but certainly do not have the major attractions of NYC.

There are plans to update the NYC piers - hopefully these lines will return.

Sailing to Europe out of Red Hook is akin to going to London & not seeing Buckingham Palace!

Rotterdam,

It will be a sad day when the Southampton arrival is the glamorous part of a Trans Atlantic!

Peter

I choose Manhattan.It is much closer to where I live in Northern New Jersey and it is traditional such as the first Queen Elizabeth and Queen Mary docked at either Piers 90 or 92 and the QM2 still does and the QE2 does at least a few times a year at Piers 90 or 92.Brooklyn Pier 12 is so untraditional and is not centrally located to the Tri-state area as Piers 88,90 and 92 on the West Side of Midtown Manhattan on the Hudson River are.Shame on Cunard/Carnival for moving to Brooklyn.On a different matter,Rotterdam how did your phone call to Cunard turn out?

We Choose Manhattan.

We are considering the December 8th Caribbean itinerary on the QM2. In our case, we drive from Canada to the port. In the past, this has worked extremely well, crossing the GW bridge to the pier. Sailing out of New York is something special.

Anne and Alan

You should have had a 3rd option:

Don't give a damn.

Or perhaps, more politely, WGAS?

I choose Brooklyn.

It is farther for me then the current piers but it will be nice to be in a modern facility (maybe no more 2 hr embarkation fiasos?).

By the way, the pier is on the river at the foot of Atlantic Ave... a formerly shady dock area but now it'll be busy & modern... it's the border between Brooklyn Hts and Cobble Hill... both great areas and much nicer then the West 50's in Manhattan.

Happy sails!

Michael

It's not foot of atlantic Ave, it's a little farther down(pier 12). Still it's cobble hill, Brooklyn hights, a great area. You still will sail past Lady Liberty and under the narrows bridge. You will sail past more of manhattan skyline then if you left from the RCCL New Jersey pier(which by the way is in a not so great area) in Bayonne. Less traffic than Manhattan, it's new, much larger, and its 15 min from manhattan if you want to go sightseeing. The piers will be right before the Brooklyn bridge and across from the South Street Seaport.

Not centrally located to the Tri-state area, Brooklyn is part of the tri state area.

What was RCCL thinking when they moved to NJ, sailing past all those factorys. Hasn't stop anyone from cruiseing RCCL.

Coming from GW bridge, go tun to battery tun and your right there, 15 min longer and maybe not even that long since you won t be stopped at the same light for 10 min like in manhattan.

absolutely, its a major loss to lose the Manhattan departure. when we left on 3/25, the sail-off after dark past manhattan was stunning from the deck 11 observation platform, with the NYC police helicopters spotlighting the way - the only thing absent were the missing WTCs, you really notice their absence at night in a sail-by. I'm glad I got to experience it before this Brooklyn move. Getting to Brooklyn isn't easy, the BQE is a nightmare.

the way i read it...only the Qm2 is being relocated...we are booked onthe world cruise on the QE2 in Jan 2006....and sailing passed the NY skyline will be one of the highlights....im asusming that she is still leaving from Manhatten or am i misunderstanding...????

the way i read it...only the Qm2 is being relocated...we are booked onthe world cruise on the QE2 in Jan 2006....and sailing passed the NY skyline will be one of the highlights....im asusming that she is still leaving from Manhatten or am i misunderstanding...????

Roscoe39 - I doubt they would move all the infrastructure to Brooklyn & then have the QE2 use Manhattan - however - your World Cruise is before the April 2006 transfer - so you will likely be on the last World Cruise that uses Manhattan.....enjoy!

Peter

yeah..sorry..:confused: .silly me....

QE2 is also moving to Brooklyn, I would guess the date of the move will be left open depending on when the Brooklyn pier will be finished.

Repairs will start on the Manhattan piers as soon as the Brooklyn pier opens.

I have read that QM and QE will return to Manhattan after the piers are finished and Carnival ships will take their place in Brooklyn.

Carnival Corp still holds a lease agreement for the Manhattan piers.

I have read that QM and QE will return to Manhattan after the piers are finished and Carnival ships will take their place in Brooklyn. Carnival Corp still holds a lease agreement for the Manhattan piers.

Paul

Todays paper

APRIL 14TH, 2005

The Queen Mary II will soon have a new place to drop anchor in the city.

Princess and Cunard cruise lines signed a deal with the city Thursday to make Pier 12 in Red Hook, Brooklyn, their new home.

The city is building a $30 million complex at Piers 11 and 12 as an alternative to the New York Cruise Terminal on Manhattan's west side. Ships are scheduled to begin using the new site in April 2006.

The city is also adding three new modern berths to the cruise terminal in Manhattan. About 900,000 passengers used the Manhattan terminal last year, but the mayor's office expects that number to rise to as many as 1.5 million people a year.

The hustle and bustle of the West Side Drive as you get stuck in traffic, horns blowing, peoples tempers flaring, excitement building. Seeing the ships aligned right up to the road. Brooklyn will not even come close. You'll have some BQE (Brooklyn-Queens Expressway) view, only lower Manhattan, you'll miss the Empire State Building and Greenwich Village, Jersey City and Hoboken, NJ (on the other side). It's like flying Southwest over Singapore First Class. Yuch. Manhattan all the way. And yes I live in Manhattan BUT from where I live the Brooklyn spot would actually be a bit closer. I dread the QM2 out of Brooklyn. :cool:

The NY Times stated yesterday that under the agreement with NYC Carnivore will move both QM2 & QE2 to Brooklyn.

Even if the NYC piers are refurbished...unfortunately, it won't be in time before the end of QE2's sailing days.

Another era gone......Bill Miller is reporting the Norway / FRANCE has been sold for scrap(at best its being sent to the Far East).

Ita all too sad.

When I was growing up in Brooklyn Heights, I would take a walk on the Promenade every night - winter Spring, Summer and Fall. In those days, the Farrell lines sailed out of the piers up to Atlantic Avenue - they were cargo ships but carried a few passengers - and sailed mostly the South American runs. There was a seaman's bar on Atlantic Avenue, Monteros, which my step father, being a merchant marine, would take me into. It was a seedy dive where seamen found refuge - but Joe Montero was a good soul and he had a fabulous collection of steamship memorabilia.

Atlantic Avenue is flanked to the north by Brooklyn Heights, an historical landmark neighborhood of restored brownstones capturing the New York of 100 years ago. To the South, Cobble Hill reflects the mass wave of Italians who settled in New York in the '50s and '60s. At one time, both neighborhoods were run down, but today, they have been renovated and restored. Atlantic Avenue was settled by Middle Eastern immigrants and today offers restaurants, grocery stores and bakeries that evoke the bazaar in Istanbul.

Savy New Yorkers know that you can live in Brooklyn Heights and commute to lower Manhattan in ten minutes flat. On glorious days, you can walk across the Brooklyn Bridge and down to the South Street Seaport or the Battery in an hour.

We will miss that magical parade up the Hudson River, but in it's place, you will sail up the East River, dock a stones throw from Brooklyn Heights, the Brooklyn Bridge, and the South Street Seaport.

If you have ever arrived at Pier 88, 90 or 92 when four ships were arriving or sailing on the same day, you know that it is a nightmare to catch a cab - I've waited two hours in cue trying to get home at the end of a cruise.

When I sailed into Pier 90 on the QM2, I was stricken by how tatty the pier looks - with paint peeling and no climate control on the lower levels. It's shameful that a great city like New York has no better to offer.

If you have ever visited Long Beach, with the Queen Mary adjacent to the terminal, you know what a state of the art Cruise Ship Terminal should look like. I've heard a rumour from more than one source that when the QE2 is retired, she may be converted into a hotel/convention center - perhaps at the foot of Atlantic Avenue.

I think that we need to give the Carnival and Norweigian Cruise Ship Companies, and the Port Authority of New York the benefit of the doubt. I think that the proposal to build a state of the art terminal in Brooklyn at the foot of Atlantic Avenue is a sound idea - that we will all applaud ten years hence.

There will be no sailing up the East River, and the ships are not docking at the foot of Atlantic Avenue. The ships will be docking in one of the worst parts of Brooklyn, and nowhere near Brooklyn Heights. It's just awful, completely awful, and I think bookings on the QM2 are going to drop. If the QM2 is unpopular in certain quarters now, just wait until she is exiled to Brooklyn. No matter how pretty the new terminal is, Red Hook simply does not cut it, on any level. QM2 belongs at the west side piers.

Get a grip, Red hook is NOT one of the worst areas in Bklyn, ever hear of East NY, Coney Island or Brownsville. I said it's a little further then Atlantic Ave. It's not awful, completely awful, it's a up and coming area. Great brownstones, 15 min to manhattan. I have looked at a few brownstones in red hook selling in the high 700,000, not bad for your your awful area. Get your head out of the hole you put it in. I guess you have never taken the water taxi from Midtown to Bklyn hgts and then on to Red Hook. There are some really good resturants there. Speaking of the water taxi, it' will be a great way to get from mid town to the pier in Brooklyn. Water taxi stops in mid town, wall street, red hook and brooklyn hgts.

RCCL lovers didn t complain this much when RCCL went to seedy Bayonne, NJ, and people now think it's great. Why not wait and see before you go and have a cow.

I'm sorry, but I disagree with you. You say "The piers will be right before the Brooklyn bridge and across from the South Street Seaport", but that is false information. Red Hook is really, well, just a pit. It's a really bad area, it's ugly, and no place the QM2 should be (or Princess for that matter). It's also isolated, and has virtually no public transportation save for a few bus lines ridden by gang members, illegal immigrants, and the poor residents of the Red Hook Public Housing Projects. People are going to be pretty appalled with the area.

A Picture of lovely beautiful RED HOOK:

Another picture of lovely scenic "better than the west side of Manhattan" RED HOOK:

Check out this gem with a caption that reads The Greater New York Savings Bank

Red Hook, Brooklyn-

taken June, 1998

A picturesque cobblestone street in one of Brooklyn's more isolated neighborhoods known for its tough waterfront residents and fabulous views of Lady Liberty.

An entire page of pictures of what the RED HOOK neighborhood looks like:

And finally, three more of FANTASTIC RED HOOK (Tourists will LOVE IT):

What a SPLENDID place for the Cunard QUEEN MARY 2 to call home in New York, don't you think? And that view of Manhattan? OUTSTANDING!!! Why, sailing up the Hudson and seeing Manhattan's long skyline in profile just can't compare to the stubby view of the tip of lower Manhattan you'll see when you sail into and dock in BEAUTIFUL LOVELY CONVENIENT RED HOOK!

Two more pictures I found of lovely passenger appealing RED HOOK:

Caption for this picture reads: The Waterfront in Red Hook

Caption for this picture reads: Visitation Grammar School, Red Hook, Brooklyn

It's a lovely area, wouldn't you agree? The QM2 should feel right at home.

By the way, just to clear this up for everyone, the original plans had the new terminal being built at the foot of Atlantic Ave at Pier 7. That plan has long since changed, and the terminal is now being built at Pier 12. Much further away and in a really bad area.

Here is an aerial view of where the terminal is now being built:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=40.682983,-74.013284&spn=0.005515,0.007703&t=k&hl=en

And here is a map:

http://www.*****/travelpage/aspgallery/pictures/Ad_1808_7.jpg

And more info here:

http://www.wirednewyork.com/cruises/brooklyn/

CGT - thanks for the information - looking at the plan it looks as though liners will only be able to dock at Pier 12 in the Buttermilk Channel - so only one at a time - unlike the Manhattan piers where you can dock 2 ships per finger pier - so what happens when two (or more) dock on the same day?

Peter