Question for Mr del Rio about Asian cruises 2006

Hello Frank

I see your comment that you read every post and I read that with great respect. So I wonder can I take advantage of it? I would like to ask about the only thing that is concerning me about the upcoming 2006 Asian cruises of Nautica (I am booked on March 16th Beijing to Hong Kong).

Some context: I am really looking forward to this cruise, and I am an Australian who has lived in South East Asia. However I have never been to Japan, Korea and Taiwan.

This is the first time your company has cruised in Asia - am I right? I would be interested to know the research your company has done into the area and how those ports are chosen at that time of year. For example, I know that the weather at that time of year is going to be questionable (eg; could be really cold, could be spring-like but with any luck we could see Cherry Blossom time in Japan). So yes, essentially I am just wondering about what research your company does into an itinerary especially as, dare I say it, the US is a long way from Asia and not known for it's reputation about being savvy in the area (that's the impression over here, please don't be too insulted, I say that in the context that Australia also has a great many issues to deal with). So, being as it's the first time in Asia, how much will staff know about port suggestions, independent travel etc.? Can we be confident that we are chosing a cruise that is well informed about the ports we are going to? I guess I am just a little anxious about being a 'guinea pig' and ports are one of the major reasons I chose an itinerary.

Please do not take this as anything other than me seeking to be better informed about my choice. I have already paid my deposit so I guess I am going anyway! Everything I read about Oceania is so positive, this is the only nagging doubt I have.

Thank you.

I am so pleased to read that lahore has asked the questions she has asked because I was on the 1/3/05 South American Cruise and I LOVED Oceania, with the exception of their "Destination Services," which was totally unacceptable. I had enough trust in Oceania to book anyway in the hopes that that was a learning experience for Oceania management.

With Mr. Watters and Mr. Del Rio, both having had experience in the market, I hope that the Asian experience we have is going to be one of the best.

I look forward to your response to lahore as well.

This is an excellent question. We were on the Feb. 2 South America cruise and loved everything except the shore excursions. I really can't say one good thing about destination services or their tours. They were terrible! We have booked Hong Kong to Singapore but I am really going to try to line up independent shore trips.

Steve

We have booked Hong Kong to Singapore but I am really going to try to line up independent shore trips.

Steve

Just as an aside Steve, if you are going to Nha Trang or nearby in Vietnam I can give you the contact details of a truly excellent idependent tour guide. Let me know if you are - we used him on the Norwegian Wind's stop there and he was great and still sends me Xmas cards!

Lahore,

As a person who's been on two Oceania cruises, I'll add my $.02

We were on the inaugural cruise, Barcelona to Dover and just recently on the 2/2 cruise from Buenos Aires to Rio.

While I love Oceania, they do fall down on the job in the destination dept. Since they're a "destination cruise line", I think they really need to work on getting more information out to passengers. I did feel like a guinea pig at times because often when we asked questions, we got answers like, "don't know, we've never been here before".

The port talk for Rio was lacking. While I know that all port talks are also often sales pitches for the cruiseline tours, this one offered very little information for those of us not planning on getting on one of their buses.

My advice is to treat the ship like a floating hotel that leaves you off in various ports. Do your own research and plan your own excursions to places you can travel independantly and hire private guides for places where you'd rather not. One of the nice things about Oceania is that they often go into ports that many of the big ships skip.

DH and I have decided that we'll likely take another Oceania cruise but we'll probably wait and not cruise again with them to a place they haven't been to before. We've done it twice and at Oceania's prices, we don't care to be a part of their training again.

Hi Jane

Thanks for that, although you haven't calmed my concerns :( . I ALWAYS go on independent tours anyway, in fact I research like you wouldn't believe before a trip and am doing a PhD on Asian culture at the moment so I think I know a bit about the area.

But as you so rightly say I don't want to feel like I am part of a training expedition.

I will be all the more interested to hear the response we get from Oceania.

Also having recently returned from the 2/3 Insignia South America cruise, we concur with Steve & Jane's comments regarding the abysmal Destination "Services".

As others have said, this was the first time Oceania had/has been to South American ports. That is no excuse, however, especially when Oceania bills itself, and is attempting to differentiate itself as a "port-intensive" cruise line.

If it were your cruise line (i.e. if you were the CEO), wouldn't you have sent out a "scout team" months in advance to determine if a particular port was appropriate for the line's passengers, whether or not there are excellent ground suppliers (i.e. tour companies), etc? This must have been done for the ship itself, so that the captain knew where and when to dock, the docking fees, etc.

While there were many examples of poor or no destination "services" on the 2/2 cruise, one stands out in our mind: The final port before Rio De Janeiro was "Ilha Grande", a little known island. In fact no shore excursions were offered, and all we were told was that there were many beautiful beaches, and were given a mostly unusable map. Upon arriving at a somewhat desolate pier after tendering in, we walked into the only building in sight to inquire about nearby beaches. No one spoke English, so we were left to follow a steep forested trial, not knowing where it would lead. Finally we came across a lovely hotel/restaurant/beach area where we spent a relaxing and enjoyable afternoon. But the point is that we, and many others found this area purely on our own and by good fortune with no assistance from Oceania.

Lahor,

Any information you can give me would be greatly appreciated. We visit the following ports: Hong Kong, Canton, Hanoi, Saigon, Bangkok, Sihanoukville and Singapore.

Steve

Steve,

I have been in contact with anouther couple who will be on this cruise. Perhaps it's time for us to set up a board at Oceanacruises at Yahoo Groups . com for other passengers on this ship.

Based on comments re the lack of good advise from destination personnel on the ship coupled with high prices I for one intend to make my own arrangements. At the very least we can communicate and share what we have learned.

If you sign up for the Yahoo group don't forget to sign up for the cocktail party for group members. Sorry If I sound like a broken record on this topic. Just not sure if everyone knows of this benefit.

Lahore,

Please provide any links or contacts you have for the ports we will visit on this trip. We are in Viet Nam for 4 days If I recall correctly. We would like to tour with a few other couples with similar interests.

Thanks,

Bobbi ~

Shifty: thanks for your description - this is what I was wondering about. Specifically DO the cruise line send staff on a reconnoitre prior to visiting a port for the first time? I think it would be amazing if they don't, but given your experience that seems possible, which I think is incredible. I am all up for a travel adventure but I want to know that a cruise line has chosen ports becuase there are interesting things to see or do and not becuase it as cheaper restocking/docking facilities etc.. Once the decision is made to go to a port I would expect a 'desitination focused' cruise line to know what the port has to offer and be able to intelligently discuss options with passengers.

SMJ: My friend is in Nha Trang which isn't near where you are going unfortunately. I know Hong Kong, Bangkok, Saigon quite well and I lived in Singapore, so if you have any questions I will do what I can to answer them. But please...what sort of things are you interested in and I'll see if I can provide some pointers.

Herbalsoaplady: If you are going to Nha Trang let me know and I can give you my friends' name, otherwise the same as SMJ applies.

Lahore,

Herbalsoaplady and I are on the same cruise which is Jan 6, 2006. I am interesed in seeing the highlights of each port and I want to see as much as possible. I like to have a guide that can teach me about the people and their culture. I do not want to just ride around on a bus. I will also be staying in Hong Kong and Singapore for a few days. How many would you suggest? I have considered traveling to someplace else after the cruise, maybe to a nice beach. I would welcome any advice.

Going back to your question, if Oceania does research the ports they do not do a good job and it does not seem to be communicated to the destination service staff. Destination services did not know the answer to one question. Some on the answers I got were "I don't know", "I've never been there", "I think I heard something about it" I really thought about leaving our Lonley Planet book with them so they might learn something. On one all day tour our bus did not have a working microphone. When we got back and told the destination services manager she said "unfortunately technical difficulties sometimes happen". She did not seem to care that we had been on an 8 hour tour and heard nothing!

Many people had booked the cruise speciffically to go to Iguazu Falls. Very few of them got to go because the tour was very limited and sold out well before we sailed. The ones that did get to go had their hotel changed and only got to go to the Brazilian side. In Parati we were able to see beautiful waterfalls, rivers and lush mountains. But we did this all on our own without any help from the ship. Destination services seemed to know nothing about it.

In Ilha Grande we tendered to a place that had nothing but a small beach some small hotels. There was no way to get to see a place that is beautiful.

We did do tours on our own precruise to Iguazu and Buenos Aires and on port days in Montevideo and Rio. When talking to the people that did the ships tours in these palces I was so glad that we toured privately. It seems that we saw so much more and at a fraction of the cost. By the way I feel that Oceania tours are way overpriced.

I still am one of Oceania's biggest fans but I only plan to travel with them if I can make my own tour arrangemets in the ports. If I can't do this in Asia I will cancel and go with another cruise line.

hi SMJ and Herbalsoaplady

I am working on my PhD so I might write a bit to you at a time. Here's some thoughts for starters:

Hong Kong and Singapore are both big Asian cities. As such a lot of people seem them purely as shopping havens and don't ever scratch the surface. Singapore in particular suffers from a reputation of being santised and rule ridden. Like all stereotypes aspects of those are true, however there are incalculable exceptions to the stereoptype. It depends on how long you've got possible as to how long I would recommend you stay in each. Hong Kong has the island, the Kowloon side and then there are many smaller islands scattered about (apart from the fact that it is attached to China as a minor addition). It also depends on your budget - you can stay in some of the most expensive hotels in the world in HK. Or you can stay out a bit in the territories in a 3-4 star hotel for a lot less and travel in to town in ten minutes. Both cities have immaculate and easy to use underground train systems. A 'must do' if you have the money is a helicopter tour of HK and surrounds. A cheap 'must do' is as many trips on the harbour as you can on the Star ferries.

Singapore is my second home and I love the place so you'll excuse my bias. Again, many stunning hotels. If you like eating local foods and poking about various ethnic districts you will love Singapore, but you probably do need a guide to see the 'genuine'. Singapore is replete with 'tourist destinations' - some of which are great but are not the real Singapore (eg; the somewhat plastic Sentosa island). I could very easily spend a day in one shop I can think of in the Indian sector. You could spend a day walking up the main street of the Indian sector, stopping at temples, poking around shops, going to a huge mega store that is so cheap and full of variety and bargains, eating a delicisious all you can eat Southern Indian banana-leaf curry meal in pristine cleanliness (you can eat safely anywhere in Singapore) for less than $6...need I go on - and all this in one street. Then again you could go on a tacky 'tourist rickshaw Indian sector tour' for an hour where you and a bunch of other patsies are driven BRIEFLY around the sector en mass in a fleet of remodelled trishaws while all the locals laugh at the stupid ang moh! :p . Do you like to eat, are you interested in religion, what sort of shopping are you into?

BTW - I don't know if Oceania is organising a tour to Chu Chi tunnels out of Saigon but that would be my 'must see' for Siagon if you are remotely interested in the war. These are the underground tunnels that the Viet Cong lived in and soundly held off the US and the Aussies for so long. They had an entire world down there and you can go down - it's very scary but an amazing experiences. Couple something like that with a trip to Saigon's main market and you are on the money there I reckon.

In terms of getting local guides in Asia, may I recommend the lonely planet website (www.lonelyplanet.com.au). Go to the 'thorn tree' message board. It's full of backpackers so don't tell them you are going on a very expensive luxury cruise (well, only if you want to be considered soooo uncool)! But the people on the Asia thread there really know their stuff and that's where I picked up the name of my guide in Nha Trang. We went on a marvelous trip to the Chu Chi tunnels that was run by a backpacker inn in Saigon and cost almost nothing - I organised this through a contact someone gave me on Lonely Planet.

Ok, that's enough from me for now. Drop another line and we'll pick up from here.

SMJ,

I agree with you 100%. We were on the same cruise and had the same experience.

For others that questioned it: Yes, it seems that Oceania does send out a scout team ahead of time. For the port talk of Rio, the Destination Service person showed us photo's that were taken of herself and other crew members visiting some sites. However, she gave no basic Rio information - she didn't talk about the money exchange, didn't recommend any foods, didn't talk about the famous (and dangerous favella's). In short, all she did was hawk Oceania's tour, which already mentioned are WAAAY overpriced. I met up with some friend's who had taken Oceania's highlights of Rio and it was so disorganized that in a 7 hour tour all they saw was the Corcovada (Jesus Christ statue on the mountain).

On another note smj, for your cruise to Asia, I suggest getting a lonely planet guidebook. I've been to HK a few times and it's definitely a city you don't need a guide in. It's safe and taxi's, buses, ferries are cheap and easy.

I spent 5 days in Hanoi (loved it, would go back in a second!) and if you're only there for one day, it might be easier to have a guide just for the convenience. The things you want to see are the Temple of Learning, Ho Chi Minh's house, One Pilar Pagoda, Red Sword Lake, old Hanoi where the streets are named by what they sell and all the art galleries. (there are tons - think Paris in the 1930's) If you're docked overnight, go to the water puppet show. Hanoi has some of the best shopping (unlike Bangkok, they don't do a lot of haggling, it's just cheap and easy). They also have great food, but I'd stay away from eating street food, just to be on the safe side. (refrigeration isn't key for them). The most famous restaurant is Cha Ca La Vong where they only serve one fish dish, it's wonderful. For a more upscale dining experience, go to the Seasons restaurant across the street from the Metropole Hotel. Sites I'd skip are Ho Chi Minh's mausoleum and the policial museum (both snores in my opinion).

Bangkok is another safe city, but again, if you're only there one day, it might be easier to go with a guide just to get to all the sites.....the Palace, the Jade Palace, the Gold Buddha, take a boat tour of the river market, Jim Thompson's House (my fave). If the ship overnights there, then don't miss going to PatPong at night - this is where they have the night market as well as all the strip clubs. (if you go to the strip clubs, stick to the ones owned by the King group and you won't have any problems being ripped off for drinks, etc. Also, no problem for women to go in). Shopping in Bangkok is all about the haggling and personally I hate it, though I know many love it. I bought all my gifts in Hanoi and bought almost nothing in BKK. The thai's are lovely and friendly people and will often come up and talk to you in the street in hopes of practicing their english. Within 2 minutes they'll tell you that the place you're going to visit is closed that day due to a buddist holiday or renovation but will offer to take you to their cousin's jewelry or clothing factory! :) My favorite restaurants in Bangkok are "Lemongrass", "Cabbages and Condoms" or for dining on the water, "Sala Thip" in the Shangri-La Hotel.

Jane

Jane - Lahore

Thanks that was AWESOME!!!

Steve and I are on the same cruise.

Steve don't cancel we have plenty of time to make this work for us.

With such knowledgeable folks on this board we can do it.

Off to the bookstore for a Lonely Planet tour guide.

I am so glad the cruise is not till Jan. this will allow ample time for making arrangements.

We had to cancel a previous trip to the same destination. At the time good friends of ours were living in Singapore. They had similar comments about the Indian section and other places to visit. I do recall something about a restaurant that serves food on banana leaves. We will be visiting them soon and be getting the real scoop on where to go. We intend to stay over for 2 or 3 nights after the cruise.

Steve you wrote:

Any information you can give me would be greatly appreciated. We visit the following ports: Hong Kong, Canton, Hanoi, Saigon, Bangkok, Sihanoukville and Singapore.

Steve

Steve,

Since we going to be on the same cruise and are also looking for private tours .... perhaps we can work on something for a very small group private tour.

Please contact me so we can talk "privately" so to speak.

You can reach me at info@thepurplesage.com

Seems that no one has their email address available for off list conversations.

I can understand that. The above address is for my web site.

Bobbi ~

Looks like our own tours would be great. We are Bill and Brenda and our e-mail address is eyrfJ@aol.com. Planning is great, huh. But wouldn't it be great if we could get an answer from Oceania and they get a good tour organizer like some of the other lines. Oceania is wonderful except for this thorn.

Another quick posting from me - I will continue to do this in dribs and drabs.

For a wonderful resource on food in Singapore (and it really is THE place to eat authentic SEA food at low prices) go to www.makansutra.com.sg You can even buy a book on that site that was my bible when I was in Singapore to all the best cheap (eg authentic) eating places. The best banana leaf restaurants for brief visitors in Singapore in my opinion are 'Komala Vilas' in Serangoon rd (vego.) or Banana Leaf Apollo for non-veg - just near to Serangoon rd - any taxi driver would know it. On the other hand, if you want to try local food and really for some reason must do it in aircon luxury, the Sunday buffet lunch at the Shangri-la on Sentosa is something that I shouted myself once or twice. V. nice.

Bangkok: agree with previous comments that Patpong is worth a look - even purely as a sociological exercise. Everyone says they go there for the markets but in reality everyone goes there to see the transvestites and the strip/sex shows. You can't avoid it. If you realy want excellent shopping in Bangkok the best place to go is the Chattuchack (spelling) market that is on weekends and is so HUGE you are given a map to get around. It is one of the world's great market experiences and not to be missed. You can now get around Bangkok quite easily on a relatively new rail system which can be a great deal quicker than Bangkok's gridlocked traffic, and it has a stop at the market. if you don't like bargaining and want to get access to the full range of crafts from around Thailand go to Narayan Phand Handicraft Centre on Rajaprasong Intersection. It is a shop that is overseen by the Queen and so you won't be ripped off (Royalty is God like in Thailand). http://www.naraiphand.com/ I bought gemstones there and they were valued well above what I paid (unlike much in Bangkok which is valued as 'glass'). Also I agree with the previous poster that Jim Thompsons' house is a must. YOu should read the book before you go - would be a good 'on cruise' read.

Ok, that's my play time for today See ya, Lyn

Lehore (and others)

I highly recommend that you read the book PatPong Sisters by Cleo Odzer. She's an american who's doctorate thesis was this book. She went and lived with the thai women in Bangkok as well as visiting their families in the north where most of the strippers & prostitutes are from. It's a fascinating book about thai culture and the whole prostitution there. I met her here in NY at a reading of a chapter of her book. Sadly, she died a few years ago in Goa.

On an interesting note, one of the restaurants I recommended, Cabbages and Condoms, is owned by the ex-minister of health in Thailand and he created this restaurant to help women and children with AIDS. Much of the money paid for your meal is donated to them.

To all going to Hanoi......here's a tip I forgot to mention:

When walking in old Hanoi where there are no traffic lights and you see TONS of bicycle and motorcycle traffic and can't figure out how you'll get across the street. Here's the trick: Walk v-e-r-y, v-e-r-y, v-e-r-y slowly. The riders can negotiate around slow moving objects, but not around fast ones!

Jane

Hi Jane - yep, I have that book and it is worth a read for those who haven't read it. Another good one on a totally different vein is 'Touch the Dragon', Karen Connelly (Nothing to do with patpong etc, but interesting and easy cultural read).

Agree also with crossing streets anywhere in Vietnam. It is an aquired art. You do indeed need to do exactly what Jane said - just walk out into oncoming traffic (which is mostly bikes - either small motor bikes or pushbikes). Believe me (us) there is no alternative. They will go around you, as long as you walk, don't run. If you lose your nerve and bolt they won't have time to steer around you. This is no 'poetic licence', it's real. Below is a photo (although on a quiet backstreet in Nha Trang) of the sort of things people carry on bikes!

Hi Lahore,

Thanks for the photo -- brought back memories of our recent tour of Vietnam. I have a similar photo is our album and remember how difficult it was crossing streets there.

sheila

Oceania should consider hiring retired State Department Foreign Service Officers, with area expertise, to advise the excursion folks, both at the home office and on the ships (no, I am not one).

Just bumping this one up the list. I realise that it got into lots of discussion, but would still like to hear an answer from Mr Del Rio.

I actually had faith that we would hear a response from Oceania, if not Mr. Del Rio, and I am somewhat surprised as well as disappointed. Maybe on the positive side, he is doing some true investigation into their "Destination Services" Department, and then it would seem correct that he would not answer until he had a correct or appropriate response to our inquiry rather than a knee jerk response.

We had a very positive experience with the shore excurstions offered by the Insignia on the 12/17 sailing from Chile to Argentina. We seemed see everything those who had private tours did.

Maybe Frank is away on a cruise!!!!