Selbourne

Yet again, you keep referring back to when it was fixed dining only. Nobody is talking about that - just you. We are all talking about Freedom Dining, which addressed the issue that not everyone wanted to dine at 6.30pm or 8.30pm. This is exhausting 😂

I’ve not experienced it myself, but others report that it works well elsewhere. As this thread has proved, some people are given automated boarding times that are earlier than they would choose. I can’t see that it would be any worse than what happens now.

Although we might be described as ‘traditional cruisers’ we very much like all the additional dining choices that the bigger ships offer, so I’m with you on that. Just to clarify the point about spontaneity though when it comes to Freedom Dining. Having used it since its inception, we love the ability to dine at different times. Sometimes we want to be on our balcony for a few hours after leaving a port to see all the scenery. On sea days obviously not. Sometimes we want a drink (or two) before dinner. Sometimes not. When the mood (or hunger) takes us, we just wander down to the MDR and 95% of the time have been seated immediately, even at peak times. That’s spontaneity. Some of that has gone now (or so it seems) on some of the ships. Having read countless reviews, it seems that you either have to dine very early (like you do - doesn’t suit us, it’s still late afternoon 😉), very late or, if you wish to dine at peak times (especially if you want a table for 2) you need a military style strategy plan, which may involve booking multiple MDRs to see which is moving quickest and also trying a walk up approach whilst still in the virtual queue, as that seems to result in being seated quicker 🤔. No problem, I have all of this in my copious notes for each cruise, along with tips on which MDRs move quickest etc. Am I prepared? Yes. Is it the spontaneity that we enjoyed previously? Is it hell 😂 I can absolutely understand why the new setup works well for you. You are an extreme planner, mostly use extra cost restaurants, or dine at off peak times in the MDR. That’s not how many of us cruise though. I would also like to make one final point about something that crops up regularly and that is that the new systems for restaurants and theatres are no different to what you would experience ashore. With all due respect, that is to completely miss the point about what the USP of cruising is (or was). The cruise experience is very much sold as being different to that and, as a result, less hassle. Just turn up when you want. No need to stress over booking. It allows you to enjoy these experiences in a way that you can’t at home. That is spontaneity!

We tend to use the Glasshouse quite a bit for lunch and, like you, have just walked in (no booking required). When you say that the app isn’t used on Ventura, does that mean that Freedom Dining still works as it used to i.e. you just walk down to the restaurant when you fancy dinner and are seated immediately? 🤞

I couldn’t remember when it was introduced, but terrierjohn had said 20 years ago in one of his posts so I went with that. You may well be right though.

I’ll try to explain again. The ‘old days’ scenario you describe is more than 20 years ago, when there was no Freedom Dining. That is not what we are talking about. We are talking about the original Freedom Dining. Freedom dining was a great concept that worked purely on a ‘first come, first served’ basis. You could not book a table. Consequently, the only ‘down time’ when a table wasn’t being used was when there was no demand for it. As a table was vacated, it was reset and the next guests to arrive were shown to it. This provided passengers with complete flexibility to dine when they wanted (spontaneity) and most times you were seated immediately. If you wanted a table for two, they usually asked you to stand to one side for a few minutes until a suitable table was free. At the busiest times (and in particular on very busy cruises, such as summer school holidays) you might be given a pager. In these scenarios the wait was usually very short but the longest I can recall was around 45 minutes on Britannia in August school holidays (well below the sort of waits people are reporting now at peak times). Arvia and Iona weren’t meant to have Club (fixed) dining, and were meant to be 100% Freedom Dining, using the process described above. It became clear that there was still a demand for fixed (set time dining) so P&O introduced a hybrid system where an element of fixed dining has been introduced in restaurants designed to be operating on a Freedom basis. Our P&O insider has confirmed in an earlier post what some of us said was the inevitable outcome that, as a result of this approach, tables are sitting vacant for anything up to 30 minutes. This goes some considerable way to explain why the wait times are so long during the busier periods, as this ‘down time’ should not be happening in a proper Freedom dining restaurant. Please keep in mind that on the very rare occasions that you use the MDR you are usually dining very early or very late. There will be less demand at these times. Most people probably prefer to dine between 7 and 9pm, with the peak period time probably being around 8pm. According to reports, this seems to be when the longest waits occur. You also use speciality restaurants a lot (most meals I believe). Cruises are sold as being an “all inclusive” concept (when it comes to food) and whilst there are extra cost venues (which, like you, we use), P&O are targeting a new market (particularly on Iona and Arvia) which possibly has less disposable income and won’t be budgeting for paying extra for meals most nights, so demand for MDRs is more than anticipated. Many of us might say that this was entirely predictable, but it seems to have caught P&O out. Finally, you’ve mentioned in a couple of posts that with the large increase in passenger numbers on Iona and Arvia, the previous system of Freedom Dining wouldn’t work. I would argue the complete opposite. The increase in the numbers of passengers is precisely why they shouldn’t have tried to fix a problem that never existed. I would suggest that if they scrapped the ability to pre-book MDR tables completely and operated proper freedom dining, wait times would fall. However, this assumes that P&O want to accommodate more passengers in the (free) MDRs

Many thanks for your excellent and balanced review. Wishing you a safe journey home.

There are a number of us on this forum on Britannia in a few weeks time. Hopefully we will report positive experiences 🤞

It was a semi-ironic laugh! Us naughty passengers aren’t behaving as the bods at P&O want us to when we are on our holidays. If we are stupid enough to want to eat in the MDR every (or even most) night(s) them we must be taught a lesson and our behaviour corrected! Over the next 2 months we will be experiencing the new style Freedom dining on both Britannia and Iona. We have developed a military style strategy based upon some excellent tips provided by those who have been on these ships in recent weeks. Not exactly the relaxing, stress free and spontaneous approach that we have enjoyed before on our cruises, but needs must. If that approach still fails then, if we book any more P&O cruises, we will probably have to go back to Club dining. I must say that all of this is making me very glad that I’ve booked some Cunard cruises in Britannia Club, where our table for 2 will be sitting waiting for us at any time that we choose to use it - no apps, no queues (virtual or physical) and no stress. Just as a holiday should be.

I suspect that you have hit the nail on the head. So the solution appears to be to introduce a system that frustrates the hell out of anyone who doesn’t want to dine very early or at the same time every night, thus forcing them to eat elsewhere, either at extra cost or in the buffet. Clever 😂

I’m glad that you have confirmed this, as I have been saying this for ages and it confirms why the new system is inherently less efficient than the original Freedom Dining. Prior to anybody being able to book tables in Freedom Dining, tables were filled as people arrived. The only ‘down time’ on a table was when there wasn’t demand for it. As soon as people vacated a table it was re-set and the next guests to arrive were allocated it. Worked brilliantly. We have used it on all ships since its inception and have almost always been seated immediately or after a very brief wait by the entrance (and we generally dine at around 8/8.30pm) - even for a table for 2. The longest I can ever recall waiting (with a pager) was around 45 minutes on Britannia in August school holidays. Those who prefer the new system seem to either dine extremely early, rarely use the MDR or prefer fixed dining. Ironically, by trying to pacify those who like fixed dining (which isn’t advertised as available on the new ships), those who expect to be able to use the advertised Freedom dining as intended can end up frustrated, especially if they prefer to eat later and wish to vary dining times to make the most of scenic sail always, entertainment etc. I can put up with having to avoid the MDR most nights on a 7 night cruise on Iona, but not on a 14 night cruise on Arvia. As a result, I would be deterred from booking the latter.

Great to know that there is at least an option for wheelchair users.

Iona was originally scheduled to call at Geiranger for most cruises and all current cruises were initially sold as such (which is why we booked as we wanted to go there). Some time later, P&O announced that Iona would no longer go to Geiranger but, after a port stop at Hellesylt, as a compromise would do a transit most of the way towards Geiranger, “to see the World Heritage Site that is the Geiranger Fjord”. This would pass the Seven Sisters waterfall etc before turning around and heading back out to see. There has now been a second change to the itinerary in that even this has been cancelled and Iona will return directly to sea after departing Hellesylt. In P&Os typically arrogant manner, there has been no explanation or justification for this whatsoever and they have the audacity to say that we can still go to Geiranger, or the fjord, but must pay for an excursion to do so 🤔 So, yes, this is a new change. Unfortunately the thread title confuses matters as it refers to just one cruise, but the itinerary curtailment appears to affect ALL Iona fjord cruises. I suggested that the thread title was corrected to remove the specific cruise, but that didn’t happen.

If so, P&O would do themselves a lot of favours if they confirmed that!

When we last went there was a shuttle to the top of the town centre. Shame that is no more. I remember it being very hilly but at least we were then going downhill to the waterfront. I can’t remember the name of the place, but we found a building with a lift in it that we used to get down to the waterfront. The waterfront was pleasant but then I had to push my wife in her wheelchair over the bridge back to the ship. As I recall, the worst bit was getting up to the start of the bridge, which was very steep. Once on the bridge itself it was do-able but still an effort. They really do need to provide a shuttle.

The latter is only acceptable on Iona and Arvia (according to some reports about hot tub activities) 🤣

No insurance will prevent you from parking in a public car park. I was talking about the view that insurers may take about leaving a car unlocked in a private garage at home. Not that I would ever do this myself, but some people leave keys in their car when they pop in to a shop or pay for petrol. I have heard of insurers refusing to pay out when cars are stolen as a result, as the owner has failed to take steps to secure their car. I can also check the status of my car and lock it if necessary via an app. It doesn’t warn me that I haven’t locked it at home, but that may be because I am still in close proximity to the car? I’ve never left it unlocked away from home, so it may well warn me if I start to move some distance away from the car, but I won’t risk trying it 😂

Neither do I, but it is in a garage! It has crossed my mind that in the highly unlikely scenario that somebody broke into the garage and stole the car, the insurance company may have something to say about that, but I guess I wouldn’t volunteer that information 😂

You are asking the wrong person I’m afraid. The only times that I have received compensation from P&O is when we have had major problems. Once when we had multiple problems with a suite and the other time when an itinerary changed beyond all recognition from what we had booked and I obtained evidence that this was known by P&O months before it was communicated to passengers. I would never try to create complaints purely for the purpose of gaining a freebie. I am deeply unhappy about this latest itinerary curtailment and P&Os failure to provide a reason why, but can’t be bothered to complain as it will be a battle and any compensation will be negligible. We used to cruise exclusively with P&O, but are now starting to branch out to other cruise lines. This latest episode, along with some of the recent changes that have been made to the on board experience, just confirm that we are doing the right thing. We hope to still cruise with P&O when the price is right, but loyalty works both ways.

People complain that standards are falling on P&O, but that dress code requirement seems a bit steep for breakfast 🤣

The sad reality is that nowhere is without risk. Unfortunately I have been the victim of several car break-ins over the years. Once in an open air car park in Liverpool. Once in a hotel car park in West London. Another time in a multi-story in Nottingham and finally on our driveway when we lived in Southampton 30 years ago. Thankfully I have never had a car break-in whilst we’ve been on a cruise, but a previous car acquired a dent in a door whilst parked with CPS, which they eventually paid for after a battle. Also, very recently our current car seems to have acquired a nasty scratch on the bonnet, also whilst parked with CPS. Unfortunately I didn’t notice it until a few days later, but we hadn’t been anywhere else and the car had been parked in our garage, so it couldn’t have happened anywhere else. It was too late to hold CPS to account though as we hadn’t noticed it when we collected the car (unlike the dent which we noticed straight away). I guess that the moral of this story is that we use CPS or Parking4Cruises, not because our car is safer and certainly not because it’s cheap (because it isn’t), but simply because it’s the most convenient.

For as long as your mother is able to get up into a coach, you are far better off sticking with the standard excursions. The coaches can all accommodate wheelchairs where luggage would go. Aside from being expensive, the accessible excursions are usually in wheelchair accessible minibus style vehicles. Whilst useful for those (such as my wife) who are unable to get into a coach, the seats for companions aren’t as comfortable as a coach and the views out aren’t as good, which can be a major factor on scenic excursions.

Great info again. I think I’m going to ask for larger portions up front, or at least extra veg. Some of the MDR portion sizes are laughable. Minuscule starters, 6 tiny chips with the steak and one diddy head of broccoli. We avoid the buffet like the plague, but I’d be heading there to fill up afterwards 🤣 They must do the Norwegian tasting menu on different nights on different cruises, as it was the Olden night on a previous cruise. Looking forward to hearing how you find that and also if they have a fixed price for all the paired wines shown against each course.

Daft isn’t it. Aside from the thoughtlessness and inconvenience to others, you’d think that the fire risk from a discarded cigarette would be sufficient to warrant at least a small notice above the balcony door handle? I guess some first timers may be unaware of the strict no smoking on balconies rule?

That would infuriate me. We haven’t had that issue for many years, but it’s been raised quite a few times by those on Arvia and Iona which, as we know, have a high proportion of first time cruisers. Are the ‘No smoking or vaping on balconies’ messages clear enough (such as on balcony doors etc)? Mentioning it in Horizon after people have complained seems to be too late.