matadams4u

My bank card was credited for flight, taxes, excursion and I guess insurance this week and received notification my credit was on my account for a cancelled cruise in May.  Now I just need to wait for my passport renewal (mailed in May) and my employer to lift the international travel ban - since they currently have six, twelve and 18 month scenarios -  my guess is sometime between April 2021 and 2022 I will be allowed to travel again.

Lots of good information on this thread.  I have only recently been getting casino offers but these offers have been consistent with above gambling about 100 a day.  Some notes

1.  This year there were some good last minute casino offers.

2.  Princess has a relationship with Stations Casinos in Las Vegas but does not seem to use it much whereas Boyd Casinos are more integrated with Holland America (free cruises depending on status) and Celebrity is more integrated with MGM Casinos (elite tier status on Celebrity good for free parking and Opal status).  I suspect Princess has not needed the depth of a casino partners player list to fill cabins but is certainly an opportunity.

3.  I saw an email with a casino host consolidator offering free cruises on Celebrity for any cruise in the Caribbean for the fall.  This is unheard of for Celebrity to go down to my level of play to offer anything through this consolidator.  The most I see is a one off discounted fare on Royal Caribbean - I would not be surprised if Princess doesn’t go deep into their player files when operations resume.

With no where to go or play while building PTO and a future cruise credit waiting for a cancelled cruise I hope to take advantage of last minute casino offers once things start up again.

Quite frankly, the travel industry is probably in shock right now and has not come up with a strategy to deal with the issue.  Also, how do you have a strategy when you don’t know what will be on the do not travel lost next week?  Some of the usual below the radar tools of reducing single supplement or casino offers do not seem to  be offered.  My guess is the best strategy right now is to just let the cancellations roll in, see where there chips fall, and build from there.  This is looking like a long haul.  One area that looks good is the new itineraries in Australia - good prices and safe to travel ATM with a country with strict bio containment protocols in place.

2 hours ago, quakershaker said:

We are scheduled for a Panama Canal Cruise on 3/1. We just got a notice that South Korea is now on the list of countries as well as any area or region where there has been a government quarantine. I think this would cover Italy. There is also a warning that itineraries can change and that entry requirements to countries might change. 

Thanks for the info.  A friend is on a Panama cruise in a couple weeks and was concerned.  Right now it looks like about the safest cruise to be on and maybe safer than home.

2 hours ago, icat2000 said:

All about control with the Chinese. If they let in help they lose control of the narrative. I suspect its a lot worse than what the Chinese are telling anyone. 

Actually, the Chinese agreed to allow the US participate as a part of the WHO.  I am not certain of the current status of US membership in the WHO - 2-3 years back the US was downgraded from a voting member to an observing member due to the failure to pay dues.  This may have been rectified.  Under the rules, if you don’t pay your dues you just don’t have the same access as others.  Unfortunately, for a variety of reasons (there are more than one) the US has had a habit over a long period of time of jeopardizing it’s ability to participate in international working groups for one reason or another.  Under international protocols - WHO is the point group, those that aren’t in compliance with WHO rules just don’t get to participate.  This provides some background on the reason there might be some friction and this is just one area of many.  It is the right of the US to not meet its obligations with international agencies, but there shouldn’t be any complaint when excluded from the party.

1 hour ago, BSocial said:

But what’s to stop any of the remaining Americans on the ship, from flying to Australia, for example, to wait out the US 14 day ban?  
 

 Australia can flag their own passports from entry - but they won’t have the details of the American passports, right?  This seems like a flaw

 

 Same example for US ban.  They are not banning the UK or Australia passengers on board, for 14 days after release, correct.?

First, an American would need to register for entry into Australia. Second, I believe the way the passport system works implemented after 9/11 is that a lot of information is available - basically every time the passport was scanned and other information as well. It seems that a lot of information is processed when you go through biometric screening entering the US, Canada and EU and a lot of information appears to be shared.  It would be interesting to see an article on it - there have been past posts on how people have unexpectedly been denied entry into Australia or Canada for past issues such as DUIs or other things.

10 hours ago, californiagirl said:

I have been a longtime member of the cruise critic community and rarely post anymore. However I just watched the entire video from the Infectious Disease doctor who teaches at Kobe University in Japan.  (I think that is what he said.)  All I can say is WOW, JUST WOW!  I am an RN and my last years working I spent in Infection Control.  What he had to say about the conditions on the Diamond are shocking and disturbing.  The fact that “bureaucrats” (his word) are in charge and not medical professionals trained in infection control explains completely the progression of the virus throughout the ship.  I suspect the “quarantine” of Diamond Princess will be studied and analyzed for years to come.  Most likely used as THE example of how not to quarantine/control a potentially deadly virus.

 

Some of his points that stood out to me as unbelievable:

 

- no ID trained medical professional in charge of the operation

- no red or green zones, meaning no defined clean or contaminated zones

- haphazard use of PPE (personal protection equipment) 

- the doctor (I think he said) who is no longer wearing PPE or even practicing good universal precautions because she thinks she is already exposed to the virus...she could be spreading the virus!

- people eating in random areas and some with gloves on!  Were the gloves at least clean???
- the hubris of the bureaucrats in charge to kick him off the ship because he was critical of how they are managing the situation

 

I fear the people in Yokohama are now at SIGNIFICANT risk of COVID-19 being disseminated throughout the general population because of the way these Japanese officials have mis-managed the Diamond Princess.  

Well said - there are so many opportunities for case studies from so many angles.  It will be interesting to see what changes to common protocols occur do to this experience.

14 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

A bit late but better late than never.... Lots of people have suggested this, it took 13 days.

 

"For our guests and crew onboard, Princess Cruises has engaged and partnered with World Central Kitchen (WCK), a non-profit organization founded by chef José Andrés, which uses the power of food to heal and strengthen communities in times of crisis and beyond. Starting with lunch today, we will be integrating WCK meals into our food service options. Meals will continue to include breakfast, lunch and dinner, which will be delivered to staterooms accommodating all dietary requirements."

 

https://www.princess.com/news/notices_and_advisories/notices/diamond-princess-update.html

 

 

 

This is fascinating since it provides a possibility of a long term post crisis relationship that could be a win win.  A strong brand relationship with a responsible travel twist.  

A few observations -

1.  The case on the Westerdam falls within the probability of a false positive.  There is no other indication there should be a positive result.

2.  The containment issues for this virus have not been resolved.  The US policy with Diamond is doing the best it can based on what is known.

3.  Most travel insurance should cover the trip home.  The amounts involved appear reasonable compared to an unexpected trip to the ER.

I’m in Rome right now and the only case in Rome resulted in a hotel change for me.  If my trip had been 10 days earlier it would have meant the possibility of quarantine.  Keep current on risk no matter where you travel.  If you sign up for the Shackleton route at least keep in the back of your head what you would do if you encounter the full Shackleton experience.

There are good reasons to consider where you travel and how you travel right now and be prepare for the risks.

We should be grateful that Cambodia took the risk with the Westerdam.  Yes, they are well aware of the publicity value especially in the US.  Yes, there are lots of reasons to have Cambodia on the bucket list.

Safe and happy travels!

1 hour ago, Kmkub said:

Good for Princess. This is a very generous way to say, "we know it sucks to be you right now. We appreciate it."

As a shareholder and loyal customer I am very pleased with how Princess is addressing the crew.  The release and terms were very nicely thought out.

4 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

That is not correct but believe as you wish. The transmission mechanism has not been definitively established.

 

From the CDC itself:

Much is unknown about how 2019-nCoV spreads.

It’s currently unclear if a person can get 2019-nCoV by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes.

There is much more to learn about the transmissibility, severity, and other features associated with 2019-nCoV and investigations are ongoing.

This is important to note.  I am pretty certain this incident will turn into a very interesting case study.  For those arguing over perspectives - let me share my experience at the University of Chicago working my way through college in the morgue at Billings Hospital with two of the most noted pathologists in the country at the time (1977 to 1978).  One became the coroner for Chicago and one became the head of pathology at UCSF.

There were procedures in place for handling contagious cases and I can assure you these procedures would now be considered primitive.  However, both had written papers with completely opposite protocols on how to handle contagious cases.  Of course, since my job was the one with the most patient contact - I was the one at the most risk and I had to follow the protocol of the supervising pathologist.

Even among experts there are diverging views on things and this experience will open up studies examining any number of aspects.  Quite frankly, many of the disagreements on this thread will probably be examined in the months and possibly years to come.  Fortunately, I never contracted anything except the lesson of understanding that even experts disagree and can be very passionate about their viewpoints.

33 minutes ago, fragilek said:

 Agreed a lot of stuff is just speculation - I don't mind it being put on here, just a bracket to say rumor next to it would be nice.  However, some stuff that gets posted on line comes from science via journals or from those of us who worked in that field all our life.  And useful info from others - engineers, medical staff too.  Not all of it alarming sometimes it can be reassuring information that is posted (eg aircon cabin info).  It all helps to be ahead of the game - governments take action cautiously, which  I agree with them , is the only way they can without causing panic.  I bet some on here that read some info and it helped them choose to bale from HAL or Diamond sailing are now glad they did.  Some others may have used some info to feel more reassured about cruising in other regions.

 

On saying that it should be obvious that the info on here should never be used to go against your own governments or doctors advice. 

You raise a lot of good points.  Forums such as this can be very helpful

-  government forecast groups use information from forums such as this to help with forecasting a number of things (google Good Judgement project University of Pennsylvania for an example)

- news organizations use forums such as this for leads

- businesses use forums such as this to develop strategies on how to address customer concerns

so although some of the discourse has been “noise” a lot of interesting issues have been discussed.  If you see a news article a day after I was discussed here as speculation it might not be a coincidence -  in fact in the past cruise critic has been mentioned as the source for breaking cruise news.

It’s been shown that a group of amateur forecasters can actually be more predictive than experts (see reference above).  
 

Although it’s helpful to keep discourse at a reasonably polite level - there has been some good insight and discussion from a lot of people with varied expertise.

39 minutes ago, VK3DQ said:

I think they could be fast tracked back to the port of embarkation  which I think was Singapore and that is not yet on a do not travel alert

 

Regards  John 

I hope I am wrong but things are not going well in Singapore with new cases.  I don’t know what the threshold is but the next few days will be something to watch to see if the new cases have been contained.  Companies are now restricting employee travel to Singapore and that is not a good sign.

1 hour ago, Deborahw58 said:

We are due to fly to Singapore on the 20th February, two nights in Singapore then join the sapphire to travel to Thailand and Vietnam. Then go to Bali for five nights. I am not so much worried about catching the corona virus as we will practice good hygiene as we always do. I'm more worried about arriving in Singapore and finding that the ship is in quarantine and we cannot board. This is a trip of a lifetime for us, not least because I have a medical condition that will curtail my lifespan. I dread the thought that we will fly for 14 hours, board the ship and not be able to disembark at the countries we are so looking forward to seeing. Although princess will allow us to cancel the cruise and re-book another we have booked through a travel agent and the flights and hotels either side of the cruise were booked separately so we would lose them. I was talking to my daughters friend who's brother lives in ho chi minh City, he said all the shops and schools are closed and everyone is staying at home. Are many of the excursions likely to be cancelled or will we just wander round empty towns or villages? 

I’m afraid the news from Singapore has not been very good for the last couple days -

— 8% of the exhibitors to their upcoming air show have cancelled. 
- one of the new cases was an employee at a large casino and depending on the outcome of the investigation of that case it could have some implications.

- the complexity of travel through Hong Kong provides an example - flights are allowed but ships won’t allow you to board

- the cases reported in Singapore this weekend are somewhat complex so depending on the containment assessment they could impact things in Singapore.

- as other passengers have discovered things can change in one or two days depending on whether cases are fully contained - individual plus all contacts.

- I know my employer is grappling with how to deal with employees traveling to affected areas and right now they are requiring a 14 day quarantine depending on the area but the situation in some countries has the possibility of changing based on whether all cases are contained and stay contained.

The issue with the Westerdam is not only finding a port but finding a safe port that would allow for safe transport to home countries.  

4 minutes ago, fragilek said:

 The most recent cases in France seem to suggest that you are able to spread it without a fever or any other symptoms.  The man came back to UK via France to ski - did not feel unwell or have fever now a further 6 have been infected  in France and UK by this man before he had any symptoms.  In fact it appears he was contacted after a someone in his business meeting in Singapore tested positive

In terms of risk of spread the France and Singapore cases are probably the most worrisome right now - Singapore would have the most impact and is already causing some disruption.  It’s amazing to watch the amount of effort to contain even a single case and the risk a single case can cause.  Living in a place where thousands could find themselves unemployed if a single case emerged I notice people are cutting back and making sure they could make it a few weeks.  

5 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

you are correct...while I hope it is true can't find a solid source and would remove the post but don't know how.

I did see a post on Twitter but it was more of a plea from the Westerdam.  It is kind of funny (not funny) they are making the plea after being denied port in Guam which they seem to believe is a separate country rather than realizing it is part of the US and actually has a naval base.  So the US basically turned down rescuing it’s own citizens given the chance.  The Philippines at least allowed Filipinos off anther ship.

Now with Regent being denied ports it appears that pretty much every cruise line is having issues in Asia.  It’s pretty amazing to see what has happened in just a week.  I really feel for those with plans for March and April since the best option is to wait and see what happens for refunds.  This has been so stressful I had to book an emergency cruise...granted it is just a short coastal on the Emerald.

Now being reported on the Celebrity thread the Millenium was denied a port and has cancelled its cruise.  Disembarkation will now be Singapore instead of Bangkok.  

1 hour ago, fragilek said:

2 good and unseen points here,

Not sure about the hotel situation may be someone has come across this before.

I would be very surprised if the cruiseline charged the passengers but on the other hand if it is in their terms and conditions and Japan is calling the shots - who knows.  But I think they would be opening a can of worms as people may counter sue for being in that position especially is they had looked to cancel before but had been told no refund

I am traveling to Rome next week.  The two cases in Italy last week were staying at the hotel that was booked for me.  The tour operator moved my reservation to another hotel within 24 hours and the news reports indicated some measures were being taken with the hotel.

The way the situation in Bayonne is being played out in the media is a bit disconcerting.  The news from Asia has been a little better in unfolding based on both how the situations are being controlled and letting the facts roll out as the facts emerged.  If the media does not get a grip the reporting could do more harm to the economy than the currrently suspected outbreak.  Of course, initial reporting is oftentimes wrong and hopefully the local authorities are managing things in a more controlled manner than being reported.  Living in an area that depends on tourism we know perceptions of situations can wreak havoc very quickly.

3 hours ago, matadams4u said:

News from other threads -

— there are now for ships with issues.  The latest is Crystal Symphony being denied a port in Manila.  Apparently the virus does not differentiate rich from poor.  Also the Genting Dream in Hong Kong and Westerdsm.

- Britain is pretty much requiring self quarantine for 14 days for returnees from pretty much everywhere in Asia. 
- Norwegian cancelling one ship through September and repositioning to the Mediterranean.

 

Now everyone can post the sources.

There are now five ships affected - the Silversea Shadow was denied at Hong Kong and Manila and is disembarking in Ho Chi Minh since it it appears to be one of the few open ports.  Passengers getting full refunds and 25% fcc.

It looks like Japan is sending a signal that it doesn’t want the 61 cases on board to be counted in the Japan numbers so an “other” category has been created and at 61 is the second highest in the world after China

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html?source=122648#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

News from other threads -

— there are now for ships with issues.  The latest is Crystal Symphony being denied a port in Manila.  Apparently the virus does not differentiate rich from poor.  Also the Genting Dream in Hong Kong and Westerdsm.

- Britain is pretty much requiring self quarantine for 14 days for returnees from pretty much everywhere in Asia. 
- Norwegian cancelling one ship through September and repositioning to the Mediterranean.

Now everyone can post the sources.

26 minutes ago, dog said:

Holland America Westerdam picked up passengers in Hong Key ng can’t disembark in Japan. News articles reporting 

This situation could be worse if no port allows docking.  The only choice might be to ferry as many passengers to their home countries for quarantine.  That would be an interesting itinerary change.

1 hour ago, wrp96 said:

I know it's the least of the passengers worries right now, but I can't help but thinking how the call to work about coming back from vacation two weeks late is going to go. Hopefully, they will be understanding but I could see somebody being put into a tight pinch if they have a bad boss.

Most companies are just coming up with their pandemic plans or brushing up the ones they have.

if they had returned home they would have been told to isolate for 14 days as has been done in two cases I know about - that is if they made it through the border without being sent to quarantine.