Doubt It

This class of Celebrity ship does not have a forward viewing area. Really, no way to see where you are going. 

That is not acceptable what so ever. What rot!

2 hours ago, hcat said:

Initial reaction..Why Bother!  Makes cruising sound like a dangerous expedition,

 

If this still applies in 2022, we will likely cancel and do what we can to get back the value of our  large FCC.( fat chance) .. and likely write it -off....

Precisely, what bother with a cruise. Move on to easier travel arrangements with less stress. Seems over the top cruising. Will evaluate land tours first before the trapped configuration of a cruise.

Seriously, not.

I just posted on another Hawaii thread. Book a land vacation, far better value for the money and realistic and see the real Hawaii. The commuter shuttle between islands is good value and easy. If you wish to see Hawaii, why spend many days at sea?

Well, the old saying still applies, Cash is King.

Cash in your bank gives you control as to future purchasing decisions.

FCC's nice for the cruise lines.

Alternatively, fly to H. Organize a 2 island visit and do the shuttle between islands.

I did 4 weeks and 4 islands and shuttled and stayed at great hotels and Really, Really saw Hawaii. Do Kauai, and do the plane or heli tour around the island and see the Napoli coast, one of the greatest sites ever. Cost about the same as a cruise and well, I won in terms of seeing Hawaii.

While I appreciate cruising, Hawaii cruising is a total waste of time. You wish to see Hawaii, see it in person and do the easy shuttle between islands and eat at local restaurants and do the real coastal tours.

I will chime in from Canada's west coast.

Cruising has become increasingly fake, orchestrated, manipulated and costly and utterly fixated on the alcohol package, yikes. Really, the removal of the forward viewing area on the Edge ships is the kiss of death for my patronage of X and the likely elimination of the M class with their promenade decks will seal the loss of my patronage of X forever. I am younger than the boomer group  (I assume X built the Edge class for me and they have so failed), so I have many cruising years ahead and I am not pleased whatsoever with X or any of the cruise lines.

So cruising on X turns me off, but other folks like it and that is fine indeed. Go and enjoy.

I travel to see the countries and communities. I love to go to Costa Rica and tour, real people, animals, geography. I went for 4 weeks to Hawaii and flew between islands and saw the real, real Hawaii, I had to take leave without pay at the office. But it was so worth it, I took the plane and flew around Kaui. Beyond great. No cruise to Hawaii.

As a younger person, cruising is less likely to give me what I want and need going forward, no way will I do a cruise line only tour with the mandatory time at the gift shop. As time passes, I will pick a travel option that really gives me a deep dive into where ever I want to go. 

All of that said, it really depends on the context going forward for all travel.

18 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Its closer to this:

 

We toured India's Golden Triangle in 2014 as part of a Mumbai-Athens cruise on Azamara: five days in New Delhi, Agra and Jaipur.  Fascinating since at that same time India, world's largest democracy, was going through its elections serving 800million voters.  India has a universal healthcare system and also a private system used by the middle and upper classes.  But they do have care available for everyone.

Health care is not free in Canada. There is a very significant cost starting with a 13% consumption tax on everything, very high gas taxes and very high income tax. We do not consider it free whatsoever. All this tax $ disappears into the government coffers and no one has a say on the health system.

While we do not pay a monthly premium, the overall tax impact on our family is very, very significant. There is no customization, ie premium for a single, couple or family, universal yes.  For all the significant tax I pay, I am waiting to get a family doctor, I have none, and my wait is approaching 11 months. Approximately 21% of people in Ontario do not have a family doctor.

We prefer the very common approach of a small universal system combined with optionality for private purchase. 

Pent up demand, not.

None of our travel group have any plans to cruise any time in the future - but there are already 4 land based trips to 4 locations in the world planned.

And after cruising 30 plus years, none of us are remotely sad about it. There is an amazing feeling of liberation from cruising expressed by our group members.

When talk comes around to the virus, I also ask people quite often, would you cruise in the future - and not a single person has indicated yes. I then ask them if they had cruised before and many said they have not and are not interested.

So the cruise lines can lie all they want, but they are facing an existential change in consumer attitude.

Absolutely not interested in such a scenario and to pay for it, no way.

Not sad at all.

Not cruising has allowed the time and $ to start my long awaited new business, upgrade my vehicle and home. Solid, long term, enduring, every single day enhanced value activities and investment.

Compared with the same old, same old, cruise vacation. As many others have posted, this virus has wonderfully ended the fixation on cruising, yeh, and opened a new world of possibilities.

We now have 4 land vacations planned with just our household and bubble friends when the border with America and elsewhere opens. 

If I need a fix of cruising, I look at pics and video on CC, go humm, nice, and then move on.

No cruising anticipated going forward.

54 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I think perhaps either I am not being clear to some or perhaps just some of you disagree.  That is perfectly OK.  I simply said that I am personally keeping out of the politics.  I am not wasting energy on it (except apparently for this post😀. It is very draining and unproductive for me personally.   Others seem to love it.  To each his or her own.  Rather, I am energized by the great science, medicine and cooperation going on worldwide at unprecedented pace which will ultimately defeat this virus and hopefully get us all back to cruising.   

 TeeRick. Thank you for your post.

Thank you for your knowledge that you have shared with the CC boards. What I have witnessed is the political and public service struggle to message out to the public facts and procedures and questions originating from a myriad of medical and science sources, such sources who have often not agreed - over many months - with a changing dynamic which then changes the messaging (example, early on, no need for masks, now it is masks).

I often think this virus situation is like the European political folks and public service during the World Wars. Oh my, the facts kept changing on the battlefield and the ability to correctly message to the residents must have been beyond stressful and with no technology.  

What I do personally need in this virus situation is for politicians, public servants, the media, the public, doctors and scientists, to question everything, all the time and take nothing for granted and no idea is not without consideration. Because this virus situation is a war.

The CC boards are great for this, info is presented and analyzed and another poster builds on it.

Right now the virus is surging in Canada, highest levels of cases ever. In my area, yesterday the British Columbia closed in the lower mainland, all public spaces and restricted personal bubble sizes. So, we are in November and the Alaska cruise season is 5 months away, who knows.

Everyone keep speaking and analyzing and questioning everything.

What I know is that I am not paying $ for any experience thus far described; daily testing, feces testing, testing at the pier, cruise line only shore excursions etc.

Like many other CC'rs posting on the boards, there are other vacation options that provide an excellent experience without the "hostage" situation potential on a cruise ship.

The many folks posting on this and other threads, thanks for your outstanding contribution to public safety, many of you have obvious great experience in the virus field. Wow.

In the end, the human mind has no limit to the ideas for testing no doubt!

14 hours ago, nocl said:

You might want to start focusing on Canada.  It is now in per capita infections about where the US was in September and climbing very rapidly . While it started at a low base it is now up 6X since early September to the US being up 2.5X during that same time frame.  Some EU countries worse than US.

 

This winter is going to get quite nasty for just about everyone in the Northern Hemisphere.

 

The cruises that started in Europe are generally getting halted. So not much change for cruising in the near future.

nocl - quite right about Canada, cases are surging in most provinces. Yesterday British Columbia closed all gatherings in public/homes in the lower mainland, I am stranded now. Manitoba is rather out of control.

Americans need to realize that other countries are faring similar to them and you can and should stop beating your selves up. In numerous Canadian cities there are anti mask protests for example....

https://globalnews.ca/news/7449509/coronavirus-aylmer-freedom-march/

I would keep the border closed both ways America, because Canada has not proven capable of containing the virus - the numbers in Canada are now are 3x higher than in April.

None of this is good for cruising for spring Alaska etc nor a QM2 visit to Halifax etc.

I would also say that there is the realization that the virus will be here for a while and that we are just going to have to live with it - this reality was stated by the Ottawa chief medical officer who had previously been lecturing residents to not do this or that. Her U turn, is here.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/covid-is-going-to-be-with-us-for-the-foreseeable-future-ottawa-health-budget-assumes-pandemic-costs-for-the-duration-of-2021

This also means that if cruising were to start up, there simply may be people aboard who have the virus - because testing is only good for one second in time. Add in people from upwards of 70 countries and it is a long term recipe for issues aboard.

I view cruise ships in the top 5 worse venues for spreading this virus, right up there with a stadium full of fans, protests etc.

No cruising for my household for the foreseeable future.

Well attitudes seem to be changing. In Ottawa, Canada, the Chief Health Officer suddenly did a U turn, and now says we will have to live with the Wuhan virus - that is totally a different message than yesterday, hummmmm. Up till now this person has been beating down on the residents of Ottawa. People have been in a lockdown in Ottawa, restaurants closed other than takeout or outside (in the snow) and no gyms etc.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/covid-is-going-to-be-with-us-for-the-foreseeable-future-ottawa-health-budget-assumes-pandemic-costs-for-the-duration-of-2021

Big backlash against the Ontario Government in the past week. Last Friday was the busiest on the roads in Vancouver since the virus started. People have had enough.

So, onwards we go to Live Large and accept the risks that come with every virus, driving, aging etc.

America, don't be so hard on yourself, Canada and other countries have not done much better. 

8 hours ago, caribill said:

 

OK, I admit I am not an expert (or anything close to one) in vaccine testing, but I thought that past vaccine (polio, for example) trials worked as follows:

a) Some people received the vaccine, some received the placebo.

b) Over a period of time, the number of actual cases of disease that occurred were looked at and it was determined how many that developed the disease had the vaccine and how many had the placebo.

c) If the number of people who had the disease and also had the vaccine was appropriately lower than those with the disease and a placebo, the vaccine was deemed effective. For example, to make up numbers, if 1% of those who had the vaccine had the disease but 10% of those with the placebo had the disease, the vaccine might be considered very effective.

 

If I understand you correctly, the corona virus vaccines being tested are not doing this. They are not doing periodic testing of everyone in the trial to determine how many get Covid-19 and how many do not. They are just looking for those who develop obvious symptoms. Anyone who gets the virus and never shows symptoms would not be detected this way and, unlike a number of past diseases that have had vaccines developed, it is possible that many people catch the virus, never show symptoms, but can spread the virus.

 

Is my understanding correct? If so, I do not understand how true effectiveness can be measured as it will not be determined if the vaccine was effective in reducing the cases of people who never show symptoms.

Caribill:

Exactly. So well said.

I question the process and I am no expert whatsoever.

Your 1-3) step makes sense and is the same as my knowledge of previous vaccine development for the flu, shingles etc.

I see the process for the Wuhan virus vaccine to be different and rushed.

Further, the dear volunteers are operating in a highly restricted environment that does not expose them to the realities of this virus, which frankly gives me no comfort whatsoever.

I am highly skeptical of the vaccine process for the Wuhan virus, unlike my comfort level for other viruses.

Mary229, excellent point. It really is about the $ cost versus the product - and what that means to each person.

I expect to get exactly what is advertised and more - otherwise, I will not purchase again.

I cruise to get to a place. If the cruise lines cheapen their product - then I will fly and do private, customized tours. I have done that the last 2 years and it has provided far more value and enjoyment and engagement in the area, than a cruise.

To your point about a means of transport, we have moved on a lot from cruises, the customized land tour provides so much more experience. 

Stay well and God Bless America.

It is more than just the Wuhan virus issue - it seems to me that it is also about the onboard food, service etc. How will they be cheapened because of the cruise line debt?

Everyone on CC is fixated on the virus impacts, don't be fooled about the likely cheapened on board experience.

Ignoring the Wuhan virus impact, I would not book a cruise for a long time  until there is some long term, consistent, evidence of what the food, service and amenities are like - so I and others can determine value for money.

The latest Canadian poll regarding vaccines does not demonstrate strong support, support is down quite a bit from July.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7395956/canadians-coronavirus-vaccine-mandatory-poll/

54% of those polled indicated the vaccine should be voluntary.

Safety and side effects apparently are the reason for the 20% decline since May.

terrydtx, OMG, your loss.  I am so sorry for that, yikes.

Yep, my subdivision is 60% new Canadian Chinese folks mostly working high tech and earning big $. To the last one, they detest China and they will not buy stuff made in China. These are people who were born in China.

As I posted, none of my friends or I have travelled to China on principle given what they are about. 

There are many people like us out there terrydtx, stay well!

Well it is not working in Ontario and Quebec with the highest numbers ever.

What is interesting is a historical review of mask usage, articles and research before this virus. There was not universal agreement on the usage of masks for viral viruses due to particle size. The N95 was the best recommended at the time.

If masks are so great.......I then question the increasing hysteria about the flu - why would the flu be a problem if most are wearing masks? Even in high flu situations, there was no recommendation for universal wearing of masks.

Accept nothing and question everything.

Credit card dispute is the only way to deal with any disreputable retailer, like NCL and any of the cruise lines.

Get your paperwork in chronological order, number the pages and PDF it.

Call your card dispute resolution department, they will likely keep you on the line and ask you to email to a specific name - they will then assess your paperwork and then assign you a case file number (hence why it is best to have your PDF already done).

Keep on the file.  If it gets delayed, check out the bank's dispute resolution process and escalate (you may have to do this in the event you end up with a less than efficient/happy processer).

Fight on and remember - do not reward NCL with your business again, if you do, you are rewarding their deliberate business strategy.

Consumers have to put themselves first. 

China, I trust nothing about them and most certainly nothing related to this virus.

China is the source of many viruses, many of the destructive pests etc as well as attempts to destroy democracy.

I would trust 0% of anything that originates in that country.

Hence why no one I know has ever travelled to China on principle. 

Costa, hiding the cases and false reporting the facts.

Right.

I am one of the many giving up on cruising for 2 reasons; the virus and its impact on air travel and cruising. But also, I was very put off cruising well before the virus due to the constant downgrading and up charging and hyperclass dividing and loss of public space like the Sky Lounge - this on all the cruise lines. I have no reason not to believe that the downgrading will continue given the financial circumstances of the cruise lines.

No, it will take much change in the cruise industry to get me to book a cruise.

5 hours ago, caribill said:

 

But in trials for vaccines developed in the past, do you think participants were told to not go to their normal workplace, not to use public transportation, don't go to a movie, sporting event, play or concert? After all, that would have been some of the ways to avoid the diseases that those vaccines were for.

caribill, exactly.

I posted the item of trial participants not having the normal exposure to the world that was before the virus and therefore losing valuable info on resistance, on the Oceania board. 

Got some feedback about the testing method those with the vaccine and those with the placebo....still do not buy it at all.

I am not a slave to science in this virus matter, despite being married to a PHD scientist, who is not buying all the lockdowns either amongst other items.