dougnewmanatsea

Just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying Conte's travelogue, as I enjoyed Ruby's of course. Even though this ship is off limits to me it is at least nice to be able to live vicariously through you!

The new chandeliers in the dining room... What were they thinking? Just odd.

Ruby mentions how ROSE is often spoken of as being "more original" and in fact there is (a bit) more of the original ship left on ROSE but as Ruby points out it also means that her interior decor is not as "consistent" as the more heavily refitted RUBY. To be fair neither one is anything like the original ship but there are more vestiges of the original on ROSE. I guess it depends on whether one prefers consistency or originality.

Speaking of fish:

I was going over some 1936 menus from the Swedish American Line. They really liked fish. The menus were loaded with every kind of sil, rollmop, sardine and herring that you could think of. They also had a ton of caviar too.

Well the Swedes certainly love their fish! As do the Danes, the Norwegians, the Finns, indeed just about everyone who lives on the Baltic. They could have a competition about who likes fish the most ;) !

Herring is seemingly the fishy thing to have in that part of the world - pickled, marinated, smoked and just about anything else you can think of. The Dutch of course are very big on their herring too even though that's the North Sea, not the Baltic. I believe they still serve herring on "Dutch Night" on HAL (though I think it has been done away with on the 7-night and shorter cruises).

I have never battered a plaice in my life, it is a very nice flat fish, similar to a Sole. Just a quick grilling is all it needs. I suppose it would be quicker to just batter and drop in the deep fat fryer, but not really an English thing as far as I am aware!

I have seen plaice used for fish and chips in England, though less common than haddock or cod... But fried plaice is probably most popular in Denmark of all places, where it seems to be a real staple!

I heard a rumour years ago that orange roughly was originally called "slimefish" by the Kiwis who pulled them out of the ocean. The title of "orange roughly" was purportedly made up by a p/r agency.

I don't know about orange roughy but Chilean sea bass is actually a trade name for Patagonian toothfish!

And then while not a fish, how about a canola oil? There is no such thing as a canola at all - canola oil is in fact just a more appealing-sounding trade name for rapeseed oil.

I am sure there are many other examples; I would not be surprised if "orange roughy" is one as well!

By the bye, most of the Brits on my Saga Rose cruise had sailed on Fred.Olsen. They prefer Saga Cruises because it is a bit more luxury and slightly better service but, in their view, it is splitting a fine hair.

Interesting. They do both seem to go after a fairly similar market but Olsen does have lower fares so it is not a surprise that Saga is better.

Of course Olsen does not have any age restriction and on a few cruises a year even encourages (gasp) families!

My friend Tony Cooke, who publishes some wonderful ocean liner books under the Carmania Press imprint and is also a great author in his own right, is certainly a very big fan of Fred. Olsen - in fact he even gives a very nice lecture about the company, which he gave to one of our local groups here in New York a couple of years back. He was a bit worried that the American audience might not be interested but of course being ship nuts (and being that it was him doing the lecturing) we really enjoyed it. He brought up some very interesting facts about the company and I think many of us left the lecture hall wanting to book an Olsen cruise.

Now they are going after the North American market to at least a limited extent; the "new" BALMORAL (currently NORWEGIAN CROWN for a little while longer) is going to be based in Miami in the winter and they are hoping for 20% North American/80% British passengers on those cruises. If they market themselves right I am sure they will have no trouble getting it especially as there are so many Americans like us who would like to cruise on smaller ships without having to spend an arm and a leg, something that is increasingly difficult to do.

One passenger told a great story about the real Fred Olsen (Jr.) being onboard on a cruise - he does not in any way welcome a chat with one of his passengers.

I shall have to keep that in mind in case I ever run into him :eek: !

In a way I am rather surprised to hear that as everyone I have come into contact from the company has been absolutely delightful.

In my view if one owns the cruise line (or is a senior executive of any short) and is travelling aboard the ship openly as oneself, then one has something of a duty to mingle with the passengers.

I can certainly understand him not wanting to "talk shop" on holiday but if that is the case I suppose he should not make it known to passengers who he is, or else choose some holiday option that doesn't involve his own ships.

I sailed on Royal Viking Star, Sea, and Sky and the last one - the Queen? I get Queen and Sun mixed up.

QUEEN was the little baby one, a sister to SEABOURN PRIDE and SPIRIT... She was originally ordered for Seabourn who cancelled the order and RVL picked it up. She's the SEABOURN LEGEND now. Since she was so atypical of the fleet (about 1/3 the size of the stretched STAR/SKY/SEA or 1/4 the size of SUN) and was only an RVL ship for three years (1992-1995) most people don't associate her with RVL at all.

SUN was the last "real" RVL ship (that is, actually designed and built for RVL) and was larger than the original three. She's now PRINSENDAM.

Here's a nice photo of QUEEN and here's SUN.

With any luck, next month I will be visiting BLACK WATCH, ex ROYAL VIKING STAR - full report on my return, of course (assuming I can swing a visit).

Nice of you to come aboard for a visit. I like the picture on your post.

Thanks. It's the header image of my blog too so I guess it is almost like my personal "logo", until I change it anyway :) !

I hope that the old Waverely will be safe then. Although she is an ocean going paddle steamer, she only sails around the UK.

Indeed, WAVERLEY is safe. A very good thing I might add as while I have not sailed in her I certainly would like to!

I wonder if Saga Rose would be desirable as a museum or a hotel.

It would be nice to see her become a hotel in Norway (for that is the only place I can imagine this actually happening to her) but alas it seems rather unlikely as I don't think I have heard anything out of Norway indicating that anyone is trying to do this. And most such plans fail anway , sad to say. The ocean-liner-as-hotel/museum is a nice one but so far only one ship has managed any semblance of success in this area and that is QUEEN MARY and it is quite debatable whether you can actually call her experience a success anyway!

I do fully expect QE2 to be a success as a hotel and museum but of course she is the QE2 and has an element of fame that no other passenger ship in the world has (with the possible exception of QM2 and she is at least 30 years or so away from us contemplating her end, barring something unforeseen and tragic) and also she will be in Dubai which to me seems like the perfect place for this sort of thing. But a ship like SAGAFJORD would be far more difficult. As has been, I should add, ROTTERDAM, though it seems she may be a success and indeed I really hope she is and must hand it to the Dutch for having gotten as far as they have, something nobody else has done in 40 years or so. (And they have done it with far greater historical sensitivity than was accorded poor QUEEN MARY back in the late '60s/early '70s...)

Was the photograph in your avatar from the Marco Polo?

No, 'tis from QE2. As I said to Graham, there is a much bigger version on the front page of my blog. Or click here for a really big one :) .

I have something of a "thing" for boat deck photos - since you asked, here is a nice MARCO POLO one.

I talked to staff members onboard Saga Rose about SOLAS and here are some of their thoughts - since 9/11, most cruise companies are bringing up their ships to American and British standards. Saga Rose cannot sail into an American port because she is already out of code with her wooden structures.

 

The Chinese and Central American interests don't care about this Act. As long as they keep the ship out of American or British ports, "danger" is not a concern to them. They can buy an older ship, refresh its interiors, change its paint scheme, and make financial gains by endless charters out of South Africa or Asia.

I think the above goes to something I learned some time ago - you cannot believe every rumor you hear from people who work on ships.

The only bit of the above that may have some truth to it - though I do not know whether it's true or not - is that about the ship not being able to come to the US, since we do have our own peculiar regulations here. But that's about it.

First, 9/11 has absolutely nothing to do with any of this... All these SOLAS changes date back to the 1990s even though they aren't taking effect now. 9/11 has caused a lot of red tape in the US (and some other places) with regard to security but SOLAS is another matter entirely.

Beyond that, in fact the Chinese do care about SOLAS as does just about every country. Operating a ship on international routes that doesn't comply with SOLAS is simply a non-starter. The only way SAGA ROSE could be of any use without complying with SOLAS is if she is engaged in some kind of domestic trading as ships for this purpose come under completely different rules. So I suppose there is some remote possibility that Chinese buyers may purchase her for domestic trading but of course that would mean she could never, ever call at a port outside China. I know of no Central American cruise operators but lets say she got bought by a company from Nicaragua; that would mean she couldn't go call in, say, Honduras because that would be international trade. So not complying with SOLAS really isn't an option. And SOLAS is SOLAS whether you're in Southampton or Shanghai.

Bringing the ship up to SOLAS is of course an option but it is an expensive one, obviously it has been ruled uneconomic by Saga and I know Classic International Cruises looked at the ship but again decided it simply would not pay. That doesn't mean everyone else would come to the same conclusion but frankly if Saga - a company that spends vast sums refitting its ships - thinks it costs too much, it must cost a lot. So again, I don't see much future there.

In the end I think there has got to be a 90% change if not more that SAGA ROSE will wind up at the breakers'... Sad, but true, and it applies to a number of other ships too.

As far as changing your moniker, my thoughts: You will become a new member as of the date you change your screen name and lose the "post count" up to then.

Actually, you can change your name and keep your post count, if you e-mail community@cruisecritic.com and ask to have it changed (and the new name you want isn't already taken).

I didn't keep my post count since it would look a bit odd having my new name associated with "official business" posts. But it is certainly possible.

I did know it used to be Queenstown. Ruby, did you find out why or when the name was changed?

If I may chime in here, the name was changed from Cobh to Queenstown after a visit by Queen Victoria in 1849. After the Irish Free State was established in 1922 it was changed back to Cobh to reflect (Southern) Ireland's new status. Needless to say, the locals were not tremendous fans of Queen Victoria or monarchs in general, even though the British Sovereign remained Head of State of the Irish Free State and its successor, Ireland, until 1949.

She tells me that they had a lecturer onboard who lectured on the TITANIC...

Really? I didn't know they had guest lecturers on the TITANIC! And to think, at this age, he is still lecturing, too! Even for Saga he must be old if he was old enough to give lectures in 1912...

(Sorry, couldn't resist ;) !)

It has been so long since you have been to join us Doug., that I was starting to get worried about you. I missed your intermittent appearances out of the 'ether' to inform & educate us.

Well I'm certainly glad to know I've been missed! I had been meaning to respond to this thread a while ago but didn't have the time...

Why don't you try to get a 'guest lecturer' position with Saga Cruises, then you can come & lecture to us & be able to experience the ships without having to wait until you are 50?!

Well, I've never given a lecture, ever - though I have been told that it is something I should try.

Lecturing on Saga could be fun but I wonder if they prefer lecturers who are more the passengers' own age?

I know the old STOCKHOLM is still sailing but will probably not make the SOLAS cut this time.

She will be perfectly fine with SOLAS. There is nothing at all left of the original ship except the hull; she was completely rebuilt in 1994 and as SOLAS has a "major conversion" clause, she is already required to comply with all the regulations for a ship built in 1994.

Does anyone know what happened to the Polish line. They were still doing regular crossings in the mid-1980s because JM-G mentions the fact in the above mentioned book.

Unfortunately the STEFAN BATORY, the ship used by Polish Ocean Lines at that time, was very elderly and, basically, worn-out, in addition to not meeting new safety regulations that came about at the time.

Sadly POL did not have the money to build or acquire a new vessel. I believe they wanted to buy the MARDI GRAS, ex EMPRESS OF CANADA from Carnival but of course that never came to be. Very sad as I am sure she would have made a great new ship for them and considering that she remained in service to 2004, should have taken POL into the 21st Century.

Everyone I know who sailed with POL absolutely loved it so it is a terrible shame that the company's Atlantic service did not survive (the company itself still exists).

Antarctica is also on my list but my timing was poor. At the exact moment I decided to sail there, a bloat of hippos, oh excuse me - cruise ships - started plowing routes to the continent, so I did a sharp U-turn and am headed north. Also, I am dedicated to doing Antarctica either as a Saga voyage or on Oceania which I also prefer.

The largest ships that actually make landings in Antarctica are DISCOVERY, MARCO POLO and SAGA RUBY - about the same size as the Oceania ships in terms of passenger capacity but they operate at reduced capacity on these cruises.

IMHO the way to see Antarctica is on a small ship, 200 passengers max. The reason for this is you can only land 100 passengers at a time, so if you are on a 100 passenger ship you can go ashore 100% of the time, a 200 passenger ship 50% of the time, a 300 passenger ship 33% of the time and so on. I think DISCOVERY, MARCO POLO and SAGA RUBY carry around 500 passengers on these cruises so you only get to go on 20% of the ship's landings. In a week most ships will make the same number of landings but the size of the ship is the difference between getting to make 1 or 2 landings or 5 or 6. For many this justifies the cost of sailing in one of the small ships.

Reference the Great Lakes; there is a rumor that Hornblower Yachts may buy the Cape class packet boats that were built for the Delta Queen Company just before 9-11, and run them into the Great Lakes.

The Hornblower deal is dead but MARAD is negotiating with another buyer.

IMHO Cunard probably has the largest gay following of any cruise line. Or at least a more openly gay following.

Of course there are no guarantees that you won't run into somebody unpleasant but I would say that the overall atmosphere should be about as welcoming as it's going to get without being on a gay charter.

Perhaps he can tell you about blue-boxing quotes from Beyond. There is always the obvious cut-and-paste but otherwise I'm out of ideas.

Sorry, just cut-and-paste I'm afraid. If there's any other way to do it, I haven't figured it out yet ;) .

Please do nothing to interest the mass market cruisers in Saga. Let them stay on their behemoths!

I agree. I would never want anything to do with a person so arrogant to think that if they haven't heard of it, it must not be good!

Doug. We felt we just had to sail on QE2 before she retires, inspite of the cost (I usually seek very good value for money on my cruises...Och Aye!), & her final visit to Scotland seemed like a trip we could not miss. However one thing led to another.

OK, now I am incredibly envious! The British Isles cruise a QE2 crossing and a QM2 crossing!

I would probably have done both crossings on QE2, if possible, but then I have always wanted to sail QE2 and QM2 back to back, something I'll never do now.

QM2 is of course a behemoth but I don't mind that on a crossing. When at sea she works just fine. When it comes to actually calling in ports... Not so great :( . Embarkation and disembarkation can be a bit messy but everything in between should be nice, at least as long as you avoid the King's Court (buffet restaurant - not good).

The chief engineer, who was involved with the Club organizer, saw me one afternoon at the ship's bar and he asked me if I would like to take a tour through the engine room. I immediately rushed to my cabin for my camera, and enjoyed a tour of the ship's bottom deck from the revolving propellors, through the engine room and stabilizers, crew quarters, and I emerged through a hatch in the bow section. What a fabulous time!

That does sound like a fabulous experience! Wouldn't happen today, I'm afraid - the engine room seems to be about as off-limits as it gets. I've been on the bridges of many a cruise ship but never an engine room. Well not unless you count good old QUEEN MARY at Long Beach but that is a bit different.

That said, modern ships have pretty boring engine rooms - it's just a room with big diesels. Not much to see. All the controls are miles away in the engine control room which is just a room with a lot of computer consoles. Dull stuff. I'd like to see one one day but it's not a burning desire. An old steamer like ROTTERDAM V with non-automated machinery would be a whole different story.

I sailed on an older version of Rotterdam back in the 90s when I was looking for another cruise line since RVL had shut down. I cannot remember which Roman numeral that one was.

That would be ROTTERDAM V. HAL has had six ROTTERDAMs:

ROTTERDAM I 1873-1883

ROTTERDAM II 1886-1895

ROTTERDAM III 1897-1906

ROTTERDAM IV 1908-1940

ROTTERDAM V 1959-1997

ROTTERDAM VI 1997-present

The last two are still around, ROTTERDAM V having gone to Premier in 1997 until they went under in 2000, then after some time laid-up in Freeport, has been under refurbishment in Freeport, Cadiz, Gdansk and now Wilhelmshaven to become a hotel, museum and cultural center in Rotterdam. The ship should be arriving there this autumn and opened to the public in the spring.

IMHO ROTTERDAM is the overall best ship built from the end of WWII onward, the only ship to serve equally well as a two-class liner and a one-class cruise ship (that is, to do both things as well as she would had she been designed only for one purpose) and quite possibly the best-designed passenger ship ever.

We are not allowed to volunteer that information in these forums but we can answer a direct inquiry.

I'm not sure what the official policy there is but I would say you can probably mention it safely since they are acting as the US general sales agent (GSA) for Saga, rather than as independent travel agents. So effectively you're just mentioning a cruise line's US office, rather than a travel agency.

:) :) !!!Greenock!!!:) :)

 

Honest, it's true.

I guess you are on the "Farewell to the British Isles" cruise then?

That should be very emotional as it will be the last time she is in her homeland (Scotland, of course).

I would love to go on either that cruise or the 40th Anniversary cruise this year but alas both are out of the question... My last QE2 trip (as a ship, anyway, not a hotel) will be in January :( .

I have so many lovely memories of the Earnslaw.She was the last steam powered passenger ship in the southern hemisphere.Does anyone know if she is still sailing?(where has Doug. gone?)

I'm still here ;) .

I'm afraid lake steamers aren't my forte - indeed I'd never heard of this one before. I once knew a guy who was quite an expert on this subject but haven't heard from him in a while :( .

I do enjoy the little steamboats they have in Stockholm though...

Was the Stella Polaris given that name by BDS or Sun Line?

STELLA POLARIS was never owned by Sun Line. She was built by BDS and later operated by Clipper Line (Swedish) before she went to Japan.

Sun Line had ships called STELLA SOLARIS, STELLA OCEANIS and STELLA MARIS. No relation to BDS or Clipper though.

You said Viking used the name for lounges but Sun Line used the name Stella for their ships?Confusing.

Yes, the ROYAL VIKING STAR and ROYAL VIKING SUN each had a Stella Polaris Lounge as a tribute to the original STELLA POLARIS. (BDS was one of the original joint venture partners in Royal Viking; each owned one ship and ROYAL VIKING STAR was the one owned by BDS. ROYAL VIKING SUN was built later, after the original partners were bought out by Kloster, but Kloster elected to re-use the name from that popular lounge on ROYAL VIKING STAR on their new ship.)

Speaking of my mother brings me to my first question.She used to talk about cruising on the Med. with her mother,I think it would have been in the 1930s.You mentioned the Stella Solaris,she sailed on the Stella Polaris.Would that be the same Stella Polaris that was latterly moored as a restaurant in Japan & recently sank while being moved? Anyone? Doug.?

Yes, that would be the same STELLA POLARIS. Such a tragedy that she sank :( . She was a beautiful ship.

Originally she was built for BDS (Det Bergenske Dampskibs Selskab/The Bergen Steamship Company, aka "Bergen Line"). BDS was one of the three original founders of Royal Viking Line; their ship was ROYAL VIKING STAR and her observation lounge was called the Stella Polaris Lounge. Later this name was appropriated by Kloster for the observation lounge on ROYAL VIKING SUN though BDS was out of the picture by then.

Of course STELLA POLARIS and STELLA SOLARIS had no relation other than similar names, the former meaning "Polar Star" and the latter "Solar Star" (a fancy way of saying the Sun ;) ). Sun Line's ships were all "Stellas", the others being STELLA OCEANIS ("Ocean Star") and two ships called STELLA MARIS ("Sea Star").

She also talked about one very rough cruise on a ship she called the 'vomiting Venus'! Any ideas on this one?

This would have been another BDS ship, the VENUS of 1931, a lovely little 5,000 GT, two-funnel motorliner built for Bergen-Newcastle service but also used for cruising. Unlike STELLA POLARIS which was sold to the Swedish Clipper Line after the war, VENUS - which was a dual-purpose short-sea liner and cruise ship - stayed with BDS until being broken up in 1968. Interestingly, VENUS was sunk during the war but raised and repaired, enabling that long post-war career.

The name VENUS was a traditional BDS name and was the summertime name of BLACK PRINCE from 1970 to 1986 when used by BDS on the Bergen-Newcastle service (except 1984-1986 when she was chartered by BDS to DFDS for Harwich-Esbjerg service). Her sister was originally built in 1966 under joint BDS and Fred. Olsen ownership and used from 1966 to 1986 in the summer as BDS's JUPITER and in the winter as Fred. Olsen's BLACK WATCH (not the current one!). The identical BLACK PRINCE had also been built in 1966 but was initially owned solely by Fred. Olsen; however, when the larger BLENHEIM entered Olsen service in 1970, they sold half of BLACK PRINCE to BDS as well under the same arrangement as her sister and it was then that she began to seasonally take on the name VENUS.

When the joint ownership agreements ended in 1986, BDS got JUPITER/BLACK WATCH (now an accommodation ship in Dubai after being used as a ferry by numerous operators) and Olsen got VENUS/BLACK PRINCE, converting her into a full-time cruise ship which she remains today and will be until SOLAS does her in in 2010.

All that is really neither here nor there, but just a bit of history about the name VENUS and BDS in general.

Nowadays, on Celebrity for example, the daily programmes are chock-full of activities, running two columns on two pages.

What I find most appealing about that Italian Line program is that most of the things listed aren't on-board revenue generation opportunities.

Today we have: art auctions, spa seminars, fitness classes, wine tastings... All either costing something or trying to sell something :rolleyes: !

But given the low fares we enjoy today I guess it's hard to complain... For those of us who don't participate in all that stuff, the people who do are subsidizing our fares :) !

I have wondered in the past why it has become fashionable on Cruise Critic to misspell "Gurkha,"

My guess is it has something to do with the keyboard layout, usually the case when you see the right the letters in the wrong order.

Either that or I've seen it misspelled so many times, the incorrect spelling sunk into my subconscious ;) ...

In Italian it appeared as the much more melodious "Esposizione canina".

Everything sounds better in Italian doesn't it?

I assume that all the passengers who had to sign the contract to sail on the Italian line did so.

But come to think of it I don't recall signing anything for my recent Cunard or Orient Lines voyages (and those had paper tickets, too). So I guess it depends on the line.

One thing is for sure, I've never had gorgeous tickets like those Italian Line ones! The Italians know how to do things with style, that's for sure.

the word quickly got around that those physically fit guys who never spoke to us were Israeli security guards.

Interesting. On British ships they have typically been Ghurkas!

On Nautica, our passenger complement was 30% American, 30% Canadian, and 30% internationals, which I very much enjoyed.

Reminds me of the typical Orient Lines mix, 1/3 North American, 1/3 British, 1/3 Australian/NZ. Lovely.

Ruby, I guess you sailed in all the RVL ships except the SUN (now PRINSENDAM)...

QUEEN was an interesting ship, a much smaller ship than the other RVL vessels, ordered by Seabourn as a sister to their existing two ships but was not taken up. Despite operating much larger, more traditional ships, RVL bought the incomplete ship after Kloster sold the Royal Viking name (and the SUN) to Cunard and then finally to Seabourn who originally ordered her and where she still is today. Keep in mind that this is all in the space of about four years...!

When Carnival bought Cunard a few years later, it was merged with already Carnival-owned Seabourn. Only QE2 and VISTAFJORD (renamed CARONIA and of course the current SAGA RUBY) were deemed suitable for the Cunard brand so off went SUN and the two Sea Goddesses to Seabourn. Thus SUN was back in the same fleet as the old QUEEN, now SEABOURN LEGEND. None of this worked as it meant Seabourn now had three ship sizes and styles of cruising, basically replicating most of Cunard's problems (too many different types of ship) so soon the SUN was gone and they went their separate ways again.

SAGAFJORD and VISTAFJORD were also nominally RVL ships once as together with ROYAL VIKING SUN Cunard created a division called "Cunard Royal Viking" from 1994-1997. Somewhere I have a brochure for SAGAFJORD's last cruise as such, the 1996 World Cruise (which was never completed as the ship had a fire en route) with the Cunard Royal Viking logo. Apparently the ships' crews were not thrilled at having become part of their old rival!

Anyhow, that's neither here nor there... What I really came here to say is that Saga fans should certainly take a look at this great illustrated ship tour of SAGA RUBY just published on my good friend Bart de Boer's web site ShipParade. As you can tell Bart quite liked the ship and like me he was very sad to be in the wrong age group for her :( ...

From those photos the interiors look nice, bolder colors now than the light pastels that were there during her NCL career. Certainly more suitable to the Asian market as well as my taste.

I actually have always thought DREAM/WIND were nice ships though I actually haven't been on one post-stretch which apparently made them more crowded. When I was on the WINDWARD not long before the stretch, I found her a very impressive ship. She and DREAMWARD were probably the nicest mass-market cruise ships of their era (early 1990s) and, frankly, too good for NCL's product at the time! (IMHO, NCL now is a lot better than it was 10 years ago.)

Good luck to SUPERSTAR AQUARIUS in her new life and I look forward to hearing and seeing more about her.

What photographs did Clive send to you ... personal ones from a cruise which he took on the Victoria, or photographs from brochures?

He didn't send me photos - he'll add whatever photos he wants once I send him the article.

But I think they will be personal photos, not brochure stuff.

Thanks for your photos - looks like a very nice cruise and she was certainly a stylish ship!

those who believe that, in all things maritime, size matters. I disagree and any cruise on Saga brings that philosophy into reality.

Oh I think size does matter - smaller is better ;) ! (Well, at least to a point. I think the Saga ships, the R ships, MARCO POLO, DISCOVERY etc. are pretty much the perfect size.)

Sorry I missed your question Donald!

Why am I writing about this ship? Well, a few people said "I wish someone would write an article about the VICTORIA" and Clive was kind enough to volunteer to provide the photos. And then there is the fact that my dad took his first cruise aboard her in 1963. So there is a family connection there and I am naturally drawn to ships that sailed in by my parents, grandparents, great-grandparents and so on.

She was certainly a very well-regarded ship - I guess she operated in what we would call the "premium" category today. In the 1960s the true luxury ships would have been the SAL and NAL ships (SAGAFJORD only, the previous ones not having been as luxurious). What we would today call the premium sector would in those days have been HAL, Home Lines and Incres, at least from New York. Of course Incres was much smaller than the other two (one ship!) but nevertheless they were all in the same category... One notch below the top. A decade earlier the "top" would have been CARONIA but by the mid 1960s the Swedes and Norwegians had pretty much taken that market for themselves and this continued more or less until the late 1980s when the Japanese broke in with Crystal and then in the 1990s the Italians with Silversea and so on. The only company, as far as cruises are concerned, that has really been going at it steadily for decades on end is HAL - they have of course grown but they have pretty much maintained the same position in the market, a nice upper-middle priced product. There you have another company with a big sentimental connection since my grandparents have been pretty loyal HAL passengers for about 50 years!

I am very pleased that you are enjoying "The Last White Empresses". It is really an excellent book, as is just about everything Clive does. I most certainly agree with you about APOLLON in blue - I never saw her in person that way but at least in the photos she looks great. Interestingly there are some ships that clearly look much better with dark hulls or with light hulls but in her case she looked great both ways!

My friend Peter Kohler still wishes Polish Ocean Lines had bought her in the late 1980s (something they considered but rejected). I don't know if you are familiar with POL's livery - black hull, white superstructure, buff funnel plus a lot of "decoration" in gold - but she would certainly have looked striking in it.

I do hope you also enjoy your OLS membership - well, I'm sure you will as Sea Lines is really lovely. The VICTORIA article should be in one of the next few issues I'm not sure just when as it's not finished yet (!) and of course it has to be edited etc. One thing to keep in mind with Sea Lines is that your subscription just covers costs (to be honest I don't even know if it covers the costs). All the writing, editing, photography, design etc. is done for free. On the positive side that means no deadlines which in turn means in my case it takes forever for anything to get done ;) .

Once the VICTORIA article is finished I hope to do a MARCO POLO one - not really a ship review (which should be launched by Cruise Critic next week, by the way) but a history of the ship. The reason for that is of course self-explanatory as that particular ship has really won a place in my heart.

The first true commercial jet (not turboprop) was the Comet in 1952. It had to be withdrawn from service because of fuselage cracking problems. The cracks were around the rectangular cabin windows. It was replaced by the safe but still commercially unsuccessful Comet 4 which had round windows that were much stronger. (This is the same reason ships have round portholes - well, modern ships still mostly have windows since we now have much stronger glass, but not down by the waterline where strength remains really critical.)

The original 707 was also a turbojet and entered service in 1958. It is considered the first commercially successful jet.

Modern jets are turbofans. A turbofan engine is like a turbojet with a fan added to it. Most of the air that goes through the fan bypasses the combustion chamber, whereas in a turbojet it all goes into the combustion chamber.

The first commercial jet with turbofans was the 707-420 which entered service in 1960. This was specially made for BOAC with Rolls-Royce Conway turbofans, the first turbofan engines in the world. This was shortly followed by the -320B which had Pratt & Whitney turbofans and became the industry standard long-range aircraft until the 747.

Over time engines have been developed with much more of the air being bypassed; these are called high-bypass ratio turbofans and almost all modern commercial jets have them. The first commercial jet with them was the 747-100 in 1969 and by the 1980s they had become commonplace on jets of all sizes. Aside from some Soviet/Russian designs every brand-new commercial jet design from the 747 on has had high-bypass engines. High-bypass jet engines look much shorter and fatter than the long, skinny low-bypass ones you see on older planes (now mostly gone in developed countries, where they don't meet noise restrictions).