Peregrina651

I'm still working on finding guidebooks to help plan all the free time that we have in Odesa, Sevastopol and Yalta. I'm thinking about hiring guides for half day tours in those cities but before I start looking for a guide, I'd like to have an idea of what I would like to see. (Yes, I know that I am answering my own questions, but there are so few of us following this thread at this point that I am not waiting for answers; I'm just plowing ahead and sharing what I find. It's one way to keep us at the top of the list ;-) )

Frommer, Fodor and D-K don't have guides for Ukraine. Insight Guides lumps Russia, Belarus and Ukraine into one guide and there are less than 50 pages covering both countries. I was able to check out the table of contents on Amazon and decided not to buy the book because there can't be anymore there than is in the Lonely Plant title that I already have. I also saw a couple of titles available on Kindle.

I did find one book on the customs and culture of Ukraine. It's quick read--but I won't know if it is helpful until we get back. It's called Culture Smart Ukraine and it's written by Anna Shevchenko.

National Geographic's Jewish Heritage Travel: A Guide to Eastern Europe has about 40 pages dedicated to Ukraine and includes a list of websites and a short bibliography.

Next step: finding helpful websites

Just giving this a nudge so it doesn't go to archives. Can hardly believe that 2012 will be the year for us to travel to China. DH gets his new knee at the end of Jan. Looking forward to our trip on Oct 20th. Pat

:D:D I was just thinking of doing the same thing!

It looks like we are in the holiday doldrums--well doldrums here, not in the rest of our lives. But if we can just hang in there, the pace will pick up here after the first of the year as the first 2012 sailing gets closer.

Wishing your hubby a smooth surgery and a speedy recover.

I found the Lonely Planet guide book for Ukraine at the bookstore. Are there any other current guidebooks for the country?

Hello, Sheila and Herb --

Welcome to the conversation! Sorry we won't be on the same cruise but I promise to post when I get back.

There are a number of threads with information for this cruise.

I have found these to be the most helpful so far:

1. This thread includes links to pictures and a review.
   
2. This thread was set up in the roll call section as one roll call for all sail dates.
   

Also, don't forget Trip Advisor for information about guides.

This has actually been the case on United for a good long while now. Used to be, you could book the cheapest economy fare you could find, and use miles to upgrade. But for some time now, FFM upgrades from economy to first or business class have only been available when you pay full fare economy or some similarly high price for your ticket.

 

I know that in June 2010 when we were booking our flights for our May 2011 trip to China, we were told by United we could not use miles to upgrade to business class if we purchased their "cheap" economy tickets, only if we paid some crazy amount for those seats. We wound up using miles to get "free" business class tickets (not upgrades). Thankfully we had enough miles to do so....

 

But yes, this is important info for folks to have, especially for flights taking you halfway around the world!

I've never used miles for upgrading a ticket before and was looking into it before booking a trip a few weeks ago. That is when I started reading the fine print and learned that only certain fare classes are eligible. (Ultimately, I decided not to use my miles on an upgrade for the trip.)

But, for those who are hoping to upgrade, you need to know this information before you start shopping for airfare and deciding whether or not to book through Viking. It is so frustrating when you start the process with certain assumptions and then find out that that's not how things work. (Read more about FF upgrades on Viking's website.)

It was after I read some comments about upgrading on Viking's FB pages, that I decided to post a heads-up here. Upgrading with miles is not as straightforward as we would like to think and I've done my job if one less person feels less confused or misused by the process.

I posted this same info in another thread but I'm going to repeat it here because it pertains to folks on this itinerary as well.

This is a heads up. It looks like some of the airlines have changed the rules as to what class fares maybe upgraded. By class it does not mean economy, business, etc but rather the letter determining fare type such as Y, K etc. which have to more with how much was paid for a seat rather than its location.

The airlines are on to us! They know that we get cheap seats by booking through the cruise lines or consolidators and then upgrade to business or first using our points. The airlines are closing the loophole; they want their money. Star Alliance airlines for sure have changed their rules; I don't know about the others.

Whether we are booking through Viking or online, we are now going to have pay careful attention to what category fare we have if we are planning on using miles to upgrade the ticket.

This is a heads up. It looks like some of the airlines have changed the rules as to what class fares maybe upgraded. By class it does not mean economy, business, etc but rather the letter determining fare type such as Y, K etc. which have to more with how much was paid for a seat rather than its location.

The airlines are on to us! They know that we get cheap seats by booking through the cruise lines or consolidators and then upgrade to business or first using our points. The airlines are closing the loophole; they want their money. Star Alliance airlines for sure have changed their rules; I don't know about the others.

Whether we are booking through Viking or online, we are now going to have pay careful attention to what category fare we have if we are planning on using miles to upgrade the ticket.

 

We'll be leaving and returning to LAX so that should be non-stop flights, no?

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Karl

No, you could be booked through Tokyo or Hong Kong. Viking doesn't always do direct hops to China. As caribill, said, it depends on what they contract.

 

I spotted that carrier in one of your photos and wondered what kind it was. I have a Canon 40D and have been wondering how I will manage it with all the walking. The carrier looked comfortable and I'm glad you commented on it. I also have a Lumix p&s and have been toying with the idea of taking only that. I'd love to hear your comments. Going on Imperial Jewels next April. Can't wait.

IMHO, take both. At least that way you can choose day by day which camera you want to carry. I got a little camera to travel with on my last trip to Spain because I realized that if I were to carry the DSLR with me all day long for 6 days I would be miserable. Still, I took the DSLR as well because I knew that this was the camera I wanted for taking pictures at the Alhambra.

My wife and I are booked on the Imperial China tour, Sep 20, 2012, have just been talking to travel agent on flights, Detroit gateway, and Viking are trying to book us on an American Airlines filght to Beijing, one stop in Chicago.

 

If you are concerned about booking on AA, then pay the custom air fee of $50pp and ask them to book you on United 851. It leaves two hours later which would give you more time to get to Chicago in the morning.

Even better, arrange to stay overnight in Chicago before the flight. We did and it was a great way to start our journey. Not wanting to leave our house at 3 am to make a 6am flight out of Boston to connect with the non-stop to China, we opted to stay overnight in Chicago. We also did not want the tension of worrying about whether or not our first flight out would take off on time--and I was traveling with the worry-warts! We left Boston at a reasonable hour the day before our flight, stayed in the Hilton right at the airport (yes, it was expensive but it was convenient) AND had enough time to take the metro into downtown Chicago. As long as you depart Detroit, after noon, you should be able to do it without paying any extra airfare (although the hotel room will be on you). There are other hotels close to the airport that cost less.

Why pay the custom air fee? Because $100 is nothing compared to the thousand you have already spent on the trip and why not have the luxury of choosing your flight times and having a relaxing, stress-free journey.

And as caribill pointed out, you also want to avoid an early morning flight home --and the only way to ensure that is with custom air.

Allan --

Thank you for all the information. You really did answer so many of the questions that I had. Still, I have more that really aren't germaine to this discussion thread, so would you contact me using the address below? Thanks.

Andrea

Next on my to do list is to learn more about the optional tours and to start finding out about private guides in the cities where we have free time.

Viking doesn't send the optional tour info until it sends the docs, three weeks before the tour, and that is a bit late for anyone who is considering arranging private tours. I wish they would post it on their website or link to a pdf with the info as it does for some things (like laundry prices and beverage packages).

In any case, your description of the port is very helpful for those who will be arriving by cab and for those who will be wondering on their own while we are visiting the city.

 

make that wandering

Andrea -

Perhaps the addresses omitted is precisely due to what Altiva alludes to - difference between Russian & Ukrainian spelling

 

The idea is to provide an address that can be printed out and given to a cab-driver. So, if they have to provide the address in two languages, then they should. I was just pointing out an incongruity. In any case, your description of the port is very helpful for those who will be arriving by cab and for those who will be wondering on their own while we are visiting the city.

We decided not to stay on in Kiev after the cruise and so were able to book our flights. With custom air, I was able to make certain requests for timing to avoid arriving after dinner on Day 1 and departing the ship before dawn on Day 12.

I just want to wish everyone a belated but Happy Thanksgiving. :)

Do stop in Kyiv and make sure to visit

Pirogovo - it's an open air museum, reconstructing ancient Ukrainian

village. You can see how people lived back then. They have houses,

furniture, even a wind mill from 12 century, an old church, in which

you can even get married, and much more.

It sounds a lot like Plimoth Plantation here in Massachusetts, a re-creation of the settlement built by the Pilgrims in the early 1600s. It is one of my favorite places to take visitors. Here are a couple of photos from my last visit.

It all depends on how much time we actually have in Kyiv if we will get to see Pirogovo. There are so many things to see.

And I grew up in Cheltenham. Even smaller world!

________________________________________

I just filled out the Viking PIF and started to read the FAQs. Here is some helpful advice from the folks at Viking for those who not using Viking transfers to the boat:

Here is docking information and the link to the whole Viking docking pdf:

Interesting to note that Viking includes the address in Cyrillic for its Moscow and St. Petersburg passengers but not for Kiev and Odessa.

Allan --

We did a tour in St.P a few years back and our wonderful, wonderful guide Elena explained why service people don't smile. She said that it is because one does not smile while one is working because it means that you don't take your job seriously. It is part of the Russian work ethic. I can live that.

While the American motto is "Service with a smile," it doesn't mean that the rest of the world subscribes to that standard and there are times when we just have to leave our standards home and function in the culture that we are visiting. So, when I am in Russia, I don't expect a smile. When I am in Spain, I expect that restaurant service will be slower and that the waiter won't be showing up with a check before I have even finished my main course. In China, I expect to bargain for every purchase (now, there is a people who understand that the sale begins at 'no.') For me, that is the fun of traveling.

I have found a B&B with great reviews and am waiting to dicker with Viking over flights before I make my final decision.

I don't know much about Kaniv other than that is where Grandma lived when she was girl. She went to school in Kiev (we have her class picture, with all the girls in uniform). She didn't go into much detail about it and rarely told stories from her childhood. Allan, like your father, they just wanted to get away there. Not all of the family emigrated but sadly over the years, we have completely lost touch with those who remained. I've been trying to locate family members but not speaking or reading Russian makes it difficult.

I'll look into Czech airlines to see if they have anything. Thanks.

BTW, my profile says Boston, but I grew up in Philadelphia (well actually, Montco but close enough).

A

We want spend a couple of extra nights in Kiev and Viking isn't offering a post cruise on our trip. Now I am working on putting it together on my own. I've been reading TripAdvisor but I thought I would ask for your input. I would prefer not to do an apartment since I like knowing that there is always some available if I need help.

Where have you stayed and what are your thoughts on the place?

You do know you can fly into a different city than you return from.

Right, open jaw.

Boston to ?? to Kiev to Odessa was just a starting point because there are four flights daily between the two cities while not necessarily between Odessa and other possible connecting cities.

Thank goodness for the big travel websites that let you check out what's available and explore ALL the possibilities. :D

 

Listen, seriously - I am more than sure that you'll have a wonderful time. We had folks on our cruise that constantly complained...and then there were some that said - "we are BLESSED with being able to see and do this". Go with an open mind and right attitude. Nothing in life is "perfect" but things are only what we make of them)

I've been to China with Viking and I have been following the discussions on Facebook for various other itineraries and I already know that this cruise will be nowhere as well run as our China adventure. China has figured out the tourism game and supplies a top-drawer product while the states of the former Soviet Union have not. I don't expect the guides to be as well trained or as knowledgeable. I don't expect the facilities to be up the European standards. I know that I am getting a small cabin with narrow twin beds and a "yacht-style" bathroom (hey, we had one like that in a 3 star hotel in Rome). BUT, we are getting to see the land and country that our ancestor fled over 100 years ago and so we will put up with the inconveniences. Now, if when the temps soar and I get out of sorts, if someone would just kindly remind me of what I have just said!

I also believe that current itineraries of Footsteps skip the horrible monuments to Soviet Industry (i.e. Dniepropetrovsk & Kremenchug) and give you an extra day of cruising and another one in Embarkation Ports. You are only "better off" for it - like I said in my original post - I have NO IDEA what we were doing in those places!!!!!)

Kremenchug (and Kaniv, where Grandma was born) are both part of the family history and I would have loved to see them even though I know that there are no traces of family geography left (or that I would even know where those traces had been). However, it seems these towns are just not yet ready for tourism and Viking was wise to drop them from their itinerary. I will make sure that someone points out Kremenchug and Kaniv as we pass by and if it is daylight, I'll snap a few pictures.

here is something else to ponder on as far as airfare goes if you want to do it yourself. Like I said - there is NO WAY to fly to\from Odessa non-stop but it IS possible to do so as far as Kiev goes. (Borispyl - Kiev's Airport - is much bigger and the traffic is "accordingly")

So... the consideration then is do you want to do Kiev - Odessa or Odessa - Kiev cruise. IMHO - I would do the latter and then catch the N\S flight home (just my personal preference)

We are doing Odessa to Kiev only because that is what was available in May. Now that we have booked it, I see the wisdom of being able to get home with just one stop not two or three as we would have to do from Odessa. There aren't any non-stop flights Kiev to Boston and I have learned that I really hate hanging around US airports waiting for a hop after I have flown 8 or 9 hours. I'm cranky. But, from Kiev there are multiple choices and not all of them have us leaving the hotel before dawn. Moreover, I have heard enough bad things about Aerosvit that nothing would induce me to fly trans-Atlantic with them.

I've been looking into flights because I know that we are going to do either custom air or air deviation (depending on whether we extend in Kiev or not). There are only four flights per day from Kiev to Odessa and two of them are in the evening which is later than I want to arrive so I kind of gave up on that idea. I did see one itinerary through Frankfurt and Vienna that might work (but only if we can overnight in Vienna because of the short amount of time between flights there) .

The easiest things to get into would be the words that are the same in English

Ресторан - Restaurant (pronounce Res - toh- rahn)

Кафе - cafe (Kah - feh)

Кофе - coffee (Koh - feh)

Метро - metro (Met - roh)

Пицца - pizza (same)

Водка - vodka (Vod -kah)

Вино - Wine (Vee - noh)

That's all I need! The essentials in life! Thanks for my first lesson.

2. There are 2 outfits that I worked with while in Ukraine as far as Tour Agencies\Private guides.

The Empire VIP Club (lena@empire-tour.net) in Odessa and

Sergey Tsarapora (sergo22yalta at gmail.com) in Crimea

I had great experiences with both and wholeheartedly recommend their services.

Again, thank you. Not just for these recommendations but for all the helpful hints in your prior post.

This link to a blog was posted in the Viking forums on Facebook. It is a warts and all review from 2010.

http://theblacksea.wordpress.com/category/uncategorized/

Perigrina,

I hope you have a wonderful cruise. We did this cruise in 2008 and my posts are scattered through these threads. We would have been happy to spend some extra days in both Kiev and Odesa but our schedule didn't allow it.

I am no linguist but I persevered in learning the Cyrillic alphabet so I could decipher place names and street signs and read maps. This made it quite easier to navigate and catch public transport when we were exploring on our own in several eastern European countries.

A private guide, who will take you to the places you really want to see, might be a good investment. Jerry might be able to help.

Enjoy!

Hi, HDS. I've seen your posts on other threads and I'm glad that you are joining the conversation here.

As for the alphabet, I guess now that I have a deadline I might actually learn it--and if all I have to do is match the symbols, I should be okay. Just don't ask me to read it out loud.

Looking into a private guide is next on my list and Jerry will be my first stop. I have his trip journal printed out for reading after Thanksgiving.

Andrea, you might want to ask GREATAM for her help on flights on the Cruise Air part of CC. She is very helpful and probably the most knowledgeable on the air questions.

 

Sharon

Hi, Sharon, good to see you here. I forgot about GREATAM! She has been very helpful to many people--and not just with air arrangements.

But, I think I have it all worked out and now it is just a question of how 'custom' I can get with custom air.

All of this gets me to my next question. Has anyone extended their stay in Kiev (either on your own or with Viking)? What did you do? Are you glad you had the extra days? Would you do it again? How is getting around on your own? All the signs are in Cyrillic; did you manage? This last question is particularly directed to folks like me who have trouble decoding foreign alphabets. Did anyone hire a private guide to take you around? Have I forgotten anything?

My family emigrated from Kiev (a hundred years ago, before the Revolution) and I think that I might want to spend more time there, even though I know that EVERYTHING has completely changed and that I probably will not find any family in the area.