It's Official: Cunard Re-flags Ships in Bermuda, Launches Weddings at Sea

[zider]

Much has been written in the previous pages about how the reflagging will affect the staff on board, however, nothing has been written about sales taxes. Notices were in all the shops stating that as the ship was in EU waters the whole time then vat (UK sales tax) would be applicable on certain sales.

Why should a UK sales tax apply when, on sailing from Zeebrugge on Wednesday 26th the word Hamilton was emblazoned across the stern. Any ideas?:confused:

 

Incidentally whilst on QE last week and a bartender in one of the Lounges stated that the hourly pay rate was good, but it was the ten hour shifts which were the real problems.

It does not matter to what flag is on the ship E.U Rules are that unless the ship stops in a non E.U. Port then V.A.T Is payable for the whole of the voyage she did not stop at any non E.U Port so the tax has to be paid.

[guernseyguy]

Curiously enough, David Dingle, CEO of Carnival UK, along with several other Shipping Industry leaders wrote to the press in July 2010:

 

British shipping industry in peril

 

At a time when ordinary people are bearing the brunt of the national deficit, the Government should be keeping its promise to keep Britain "open for business". We write in dismay therefore that it appears on the verge of encouraging shipping companies to take their business elsewhere.

 

British shipping is the UK's third-largest services earner, contributing £10bn to GDP and supporting 150,000 British jobs across the country. Yet as a result of a seemingly obscure regulation arising from the Equality Act, many major companies will have little choice but to re-register their ships away from the UK. (emphasis added)

 

In common with operators of ships on other major registries, these companies are currently able to pay seafarers resident abroad at levels that are determined internationally and are related to those of highly skilled professionals in their home countries. What is being proposed would compel UK-flag operators to pay UK rates to these seafarers – even though they do not incur their living costs here and may never even set foot on British soil. The resulting increase in costs will put our UK operations under intolerable pressure not felt by our competitors in other countries.

 

Long-term British jobs are at risk. We, the undersigned, urge the Prime Minister to help the UK trade its way back into prosperity and avoid the collapse of a national success story that is vital to our economy and strategic capability.

 

Jan Kopernicki, Vice President Shipping, Shell International Trading and Shipping Company Limited and President, British Chamber of Shipping; David Dingle, CEO, Carnival UK........

 

The regulations Mr Dingle was objecting to came into force on the 1st of August 2011, and although 'Weddings at Sea' will not start until April 2012 the entire fleet will have been re-flagged by the beginning of December.

 

All about 'Weddings' is it, Mr Shanks?

[Leucothea]

On a line marketed for the last dozen years on its "heritage"

 

What you say is true - but we all know what "marketing" is. Perhaps there are too many Cunard enthusiasts who have allowed themselves to forget that it is indeed just marketing. I have only cruised once with Cunard (QM2) for a short crossing of the Tasman Sea - and it is quite obvious to me that Cunard has a certain style about it and does have a long heritage - BUT I wouldn't get overly excited about that. I am sure we will enjoy our upcoming cruises with Cunard - regardless of what is written on the stern of the ships - as I am sure we would also enjoy other cruiselines, regardless of how they are marketed. In fact, some of the marketing that the so-called 6Star luxury cruiselines use is a real turnoff for me.

 

Barry

 

 

I'd say it is largely marketing since QM2 was born; but QE2 was the real deal.

[Leucothea]

The only time that Mr. Shanks's employers will give the slightest bit of notice to all this business of names on sterns, callsigns, loss of heritage, etc will be if it results in a significant decline in bookings. And I can't honestly see that happening can you? Apart from that one fact neither they nor him will give a toss about any of these 'thousands of complaints'. There will be those who feel very strongly and will vote with their feet, but they will be few in number compared with the number who sail with Cunard and easily replaced with new bodies. We have on here a dedicated nucleus of liner buffs and Cunard fans but they do not make up the majority of those who sail Cunard.

Shiny

 

 

I think you're right. Concern for the opinions of the customers and the public is only directly related to how it affects the bottom line.

 

 

<<Did you have an example of a 2 sentence statement that would mollify the critics, the disappointed and allay any fears regarding Cunard's future? >> (Whitemarsh)

 

Some show of regret, and some explanation indicating that this decision was necessary.

 

 

<<Whilst I agree that this whole announcement has been handled in a very amateurish fashion

and we, the passengers, have been treated like we are morons...>> (capnpugwash)

 

Welcome to 21st century.

[oceanic9]

I feel that it doesn't really matter that Mr Shanks has demonstrated that he is ill-equipped to deal with matters such as this assuming that he was in fact charged with the task.

 

-He was the one who has made more than one public statement that this was all due to the pent up wedding demand. He is quoted as saying that "we could ignore the demand for weddings on our ships, reflagg one of our ships to take advantage of this or allow all our vessels to take advantage of this business". He's the MD of Cunard and nobody else has said anything close so if not Shanks then who else should have or has said anything?

 

 

"It may well be that the announcement was drafted by someone else."

 

-Then as a "seasoned executive" he should have known the dangers of putting his neck on the line once again (his handling and eventually caving in on the volcano incident as an example).

 

"It is therefore unfair to lay the blame at Shanks's door but it is not my role to leap to his defence"

 

-I suppose someone should considering he has left himself twisting in the wind yet again. At the end of the day it falls on him and if he allowed someone else to lead him onto handle this then he deserves whatever he gets.

 

 

 

"I have already passed on what I was told by those crew members on board who I have known over time regarding their wages and working conditions so I won't go on about those points."

 

-These third world employees are contracted employees making little and supporting many so I doubt highly they will say a disparanging word about their employer to anyone who, if they fire them, controls 70% of the industry and making re-employment opportunities abit tight.

 

This entire thing was unnecessarily bundled and has chipped away at not just the credibility but the name of Cunard and needlessly so.

[bobby1119]

Curiously enough, David Dingle, CEO of Carnival UK, along with several other Shipping Industry leaders wrote to the press in July 2010:

 

 

 

The regulations Mr Dingle was objecting to came into force on the 1st of August 2011, and although 'Weddings at Sea' will not start until April 2012 the entire fleet will have been re-flagged by the beginning of December.

 

All about 'Weddings' is it, Mr Shanks?

 

Bravo, Peter. Keep it up. Your research and rebuttals are brilliant and impeccable. I agree with you 100%.

 

Incidentally, I was intending on booking the Queen Mary 2 November 17, 2011, transatlantic crossing to coincide with my birthday which would have occurred while aboard.

 

As the air at Cunard smells of hypocrisy and disillusionment, I have, instead, booked and paid in full for a cruise aboard Celebrity's brand new Silhouette.

 

Bobby

[guernseyguy]

Incidentally, I was intending on booking the Queen Mary 2 November 17, 2011, transatlantic crossing to coincide with my birthday which would have occurred while aboard.

 

As the air at Cunard smells of hypocrisy and disillusionment, I have, instead, booked and paid in full for a cruise aboard Celebrity's brand new Silhouette.

 

Bobby

 

We might have met! I too was considering a winter Trans Atlantic on QM2 - especially as they are flogging them from £499....but I decided to cross the pond on Seabourn instead - several ex-Cunard friends have been badgering me to try it, so I sail in December!

 

When I first started sailing on Cunard a decade ago one of the things that made it special was the other passengers and their love for the line....I wonder if that still holds true today. And how long into the future?

 

Yes, they have to attract a lot of new business given the significantly expanded fleet (Bravo! Carnival) - but I don't think Mr Shanks 'gets' Cunard in the same way Carol Marlow did.

 

I think the registry change was the right decision, given the alternatives, but communication of it has been dire.

[Leucothea]

This entire thing was unnecessarily bundled and has chipped away at not just the credibility but the name of Cunard and needlessly so.

 

 

I wonder what will become of it down the road, in a decade or so. But hey, why worry (my l'il old head)? It's one of those "accept the things we cannot change" situations.

 

[bobby1119]

We might have met! I too was considering a winter Trans Atlantic on QM2 - especially as they are flogging them from £499....but I decided to cross the pond on Seabourn instead - several ex-Cunard friends have been badgering me to try it, so I sail in December!

 

When I first started sailing on Cunard a decade ago one of the things that made it special was the other passengers and their love for the line....I wonder if that still holds true today. And how long into the future?

 

Yes, they have to attract a lot of new business given the significantly expanded fleet (Bravo! Carnival) - but I don't think Mr Shanks 'gets' Cunard in the same way Carol Marlow did.

 

I think the registry change was the right decision, given the alternatives, but communication of it has been dire.

 

Flogging the fares! I love it!

 

I agree with you that Mr. Shanks has handled this matter, as well as others in the past, disastrously. It is amazing to me that the publicity for such a delicate and potentially volatile situation such as the re-flagging was not more thoughtfully and mindfully crafted.

 

Carol Marlow did "get" Cunard better than Mr. Shanks does. In fact, I recall Shanks, in his pre-Cunard days, making a stupid comment about Cunard becoming an all luxury brand once QE2 left the fleet. Imagine how he would have handled the matter of QE2's retirement as opposed to the way Ms.Marlow handled it!

 

I, too, hope to sample Seaborne someday soon. I was booked and paid in full for the January 3, 2012, Queen Mary 2 eastbound and the turn-around Queen Elizabeth January 10, 2012, westbound crossing. I suspect these crossings will be my swan song.

 

Hope to cross paths someday. I enjoy your posts so much.

 

Bobby

[Lake Barcroft Sailor]

I am glad to see someone mentioning Carol Marlowe. I always thought her "transfer" to P&O a bit strange, agree that she seemed to really get Cunard, and am sure that she could have handled it better. Peter Shanks, who once said that Camilla would be the Queen's "successor", seems to be a total dolt. The whole silence on this action still puzzles me. Have they fired all their PR people as well in an effort to cut costs?

[leonardofan]

I'd say it is largely marketing since QM2 was born; but QE2 was the real deal.

 

The decor was tacky, the ship was filthy and the service was straight out of Fawlty Towers--is there a sale on rose-colored glasses that I missed??? :eek:

[Wasasalad]

The decor was tacky, the ship was filthy and the service was straight out of Fawlty Towers--is there a sale on rose-colored glasses that I missed??? :eek:

 

I heard that it had problems passing inspection in NYC

[Leucothea]

The decor was tacky, the ship was filthy and the service was straight out of Fawlty Towers--is there a sale on rose-colored glasses that I missed??? :eek:

 

I don't know what ship you were seeing, but QE2 was a lovely ship. Toward the end, yes, she did become a bit dingy with age, but was still wonderful to sail on. There are many, many QE2 fans who adored her as well. :)

[Leucothea]

I heard that it had problems passing inspection in NYC

 

I believe that was QM2.

[Salacia]

I am glad to see someone mentioning Carol Marlowe. I always thought her "transfer" to P&O a bit strange, agree that she seemed to really get Cunard, and am sure that she could have handled it better. Peter Shanks, who once said that Camilla would be the Queen's "successor", seems to be a total dolt. The whole silence on this action still puzzles me. Have they fired all their PR people as well in an effort to cut costs?

 

Or have they quit?

 

BTW, I've been wondering how the non-UK employees from the EU must have felt when the news of reflagging was announced. Here they are thinking they will be paid the same wages as UK staff (according to law) when all of a sudden, not only have they lost but so has the UK staff, since now they are all under the employment laws of Bermuda.

 

Just to add that from my observation, many Cunard employees at the Pursar's Desk, shops, photographers, servers, bartenders, and office staff were from the EU. I hope they didn't make plans based on the thought they would receive wage parity; if so, they certainly got the rug pulled out from under them! Shame on Cunard for giving their employees, passengers, and stockholders little warning of the reflagging. No way could public relations put a good spin on such a badly handled management decision.

 

Considering the past record, will employees, passengers and stockholders trust Cunard/CCL to be forthright in the future? Perhaps it doesn't even matter - if the price is right, the berths will be filled so passengers will be happy, and people in need of employment can't be too fussy, so there will be a crew. Oh and the stock will rise as long as the profit margin continues and dividends are declared.

 

Happy Sales.

 

Salacia

[MaineTraveler]

I believe that was QM2.

 

Not NYC, but indeed the QE2, in January 2003:

 

http://www.yourlawyer.com/articles/title/queen-elizabeth-2-flunks-port-everglades-health-inspection

 

"Things ain't what they used to be and never were. " -- Will Rogers

[Louise D]

The QE2 did have problems with the CDC inspections from time to time, which is probably inevitable with an aging ship.

 

The article refers to the 1994 upgrade that was rushed to completion and led to stories about "exploding toilets" when the plumbing didn't work properly. My aunt was on that trip and had first hand knowledge of the exploding toilets.

 

That 1994 upgrade changed the layout of some of the ship quite dramatically. The "Keeping Up Appearances" special on QE2 was done just before the 1994 upgrade, so is a good record of what parts of the ship looked like before its final incarnation - which did not change again dramatically until the ship was retired.

 

Despite the issues found by the CDC, I never noticed any unsanitary conditions or suffered any stomach upsets on board.

[Whitemarsh]

I am glad to see someone mentioning Carol Marlowe. I always thought her "transfer" to P&O a bit strange, agree that she seemed to really get Cunard, and am sure that she could have handled it better. Peter Shanks, who once said that Camilla would be the Queen's "successor", seems to be a total dolt. The whole silence on this action still puzzles me. Have they fired all their PR people as well in an effort to cut costs?

 

Wow! Did he really say that? That's incredibly ill-informed.

 

The feedback regarding Carole (on here) seems very positive. Does anyone know why she was transferred to P&O?

[guernseyguy]

Does anyone know why she was transferred to P&O?

 

I presume that because she was doing a good job on Cunard she was 'promoted' to the much bigger P&O business (more than 2x Cunard).

[Whitemarsh]

I presume that because she was doing a good job on Cunard she was 'promoted' to the much bigger P&O business (more than 2x Cunard).

 

So where did Peter Shanks come from?

 

Sorry, I should have just looked it up myself.

 

http://www.prweb.com/releases/CunardLine/PeterShanks/prweb2662454.htm

[guernseyguy]

So where did Peter Shanks come from?

 

Sorry, I should have just looked it up myself.

 

http://www.prweb.com/releases/CunardLine/PeterShanks/prweb2662454.htm

 

Interesting fact:

 

His extensive experience with Cunard began in 2001 when he joined the company as senior vice president for Europe and later was responsible for the launch of Queen Mary 2 in 2004.

 

Queen Mary 2's launch was not regarded as an unalloyed success - Carnival had to send in Princess to sort it out, and they did.

[Salacia]

Here's an interesting Canadian headline:

"Cunard divorces from U.K. to cash in on marriage"

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Cunard+divorces+from+cash+marriage/5636738/story.html#ixzz1cTD3qfaV

[Lake Barcroft Sailor]

Wow! Did he really say that? That's incredibly ill-informed.

 

The feedback regarding Carole (on here) seems very positive. Does anyone know why she was transferred to P&O?

 

Yes, Peter did say that on one of his "We are Cunard" blogs that he took over after Alistair Greener "left to pursue other pursuits". On that point, I always thought the reason given for Alistair's departure did not quite ring true since he had always seemed quite happy with Cunard and had never seemed to indicate an intent to move on during some conversations we had while sailing with him rather shortly before he left. In fact, I always had the impression that he intended to be with Cunard for a good while. Given Cunard's apparent inability to be forthright in the present time just raises another question: "Did he jump ship or was he pushed?" Who knows, but I did, however, notice a not too subtle change in the "We are Cunard" blog after he left from Alistair's more "news story" approach to Peter's oftentimes "advertisement and sales pitch" approaches, which I find quite off putting. Perhaps that is why most of the posts on "Peter's" blog have been by guest posters as of late.

 

As for why Carole was transferred, perhaps it was because P&O was a bigger fish in the pond, but still, it seemed strange to me at the time she left Cunard that she left very shortly before the naming of the Queen Elizabeth after all she had done from the conception for Cunard up to that point. It always seemed a real shame to me that she was not able to participate in the naming ceremony and the maiden voyage festivities.

 

As one might assume from the foregoing, as with so many other pronouncements from Corporations, governments and others, it is just one more reminder to me that a healthy skepticism is always in order.

[leonardofan]

I believe that was QM2.

 

Somebody better-connected than me must have tipped off the health people--the sailing immediately after ours the QEII got one of the worst failing scores ever recorded. Made the front page of The New York Times.(Presumably management got the lead out as a result):D

[Leucothea]

Somebody better-connected than me must have tipped off the health people--the sailing immediately after ours the QEII got one of the worst failing scores ever recorded. Made the front page of The New York Times.(Presumably management got the lead out as a result):D

 

 

There was such a big story about QM2's bad score in terms of cleanliness; I hadn't heard, or had forgotten about QE2. I'll have to look that up. I do know QE2 was showing her age, and there were significant plumbing problems.

 

On QM2, I have noticed a few things, such as strong mildew odors in the bathrooms, malfuctioning toilets, ratty bed covers, and in the King's Court, glasses and dishes whose cleanliness was questionable.