Concordia News: Please Post Here

[CostaSmurfette]

You are so wrong on international maritime law. Iran has no right to control international sea lanes that pass thru their otherwise territorial waters. They have threatened to violate international law for decades by controlling and or closing the straights of Hormuz which is an INTERNATIONAL SEA LANE.

 

erm...not sure which geography book you are using but IR655 was shot down in Iranian airspace by Vincennes in Iranian territorial waters.

 

Heck...the USN even managed to admit that Vincennes was in Iranian territorial waters when the shootdown was investigated...and in the Cineflex documentary about this incident, retired crewmembers of Vincennes confirmed that they did indeed stray into Iranian waters due to the adrenaline rush of being in combat.

 

Basically, Vincennes wanted a piece of the action that Montgomery was having, the crew had been on ops for a while and had seen no action....the adrenaline took over (just as it did on the bridge of Concordia whilst doing the fly-by, there was excitment at the prospect that took over the clear thinking minds).

 

Vincennes was in the wrong place, Concordia was in the wrong place...both caused by adrenaline junkies who wanted a piece of the action.

 

Oh and the map below clearly shows where the sea lanes are in the Strait of Hormuz (which is actually somewhere I have personally been more than once), and IR655 was hit to the north of those lanes, WITHIN Iranian airspace and territorial waters.

[Uniall]

erm...not sure which geography book you are using but IR655 was shot down in Iranian airspace by Vincennes in Iranian territorial waters.

 

Heck...the USN even managed to admit that Vincennes was in Iranian territorial waters when the shootdown was investigated...and in the Cineflex documentary about this incident, retired crewmembers of Vincennes confirmed that they did indeed stray into Iranian waters due to the adrenaline rush of being in combat.

 

Basically, Vincennes wanted a piece of the action that Montgomery was having, the crew had been on ops for a while and had seen no action....the adrenaline took over (just as it did on the bridge of Concordia whilst doing the fly-by, there was excitment at the prospect that took over the clear thinking minds).

 

Vincennes was in the wrong place, Concordia was in the wrong place...both caused by adrenaline junkies who wanted a piece of the action.

 

Oh and the map below clearly shows where the sea lanes are in the Strait of Hormuz (which is actually somewhere I have personally been more than once), and IR655 was hit to the north of those lanes, WITHIN Iranian airspace and territorial waters.

 

 

You draw your conclusions from anti America propoganda generated by radical Islamic news agencies in the UK and a TV special produced by the anti American BBC news.

 

The USS Vicennes was in International Sea Lanes protecting them from Iranian threats to control or close those sea lanes. The Vincennes perceived a possible air attack and struck.

 

It was an Iranian provocation and they provoked the correct response. Don't forget our very first US flag, when Britain tried to enslave America, had a coiled snake with the words: "Don't Tread on Me".

 

You don't understand the difference between territorial waters and International Sea Lanes. You should not write about maritime and international law with your present lack of knowledge.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Uniall

[Tonka's Skipper]

I love the way some people who weren't there and don't know anything about a action zone and rules of engagment or sea lanes and who should be where and when, can sit back in there living rooms and expound words and opinion that is so wrong its pathedic!

 

 

 

And what do they use to bake thier opinion.,weki???..newsweek?..(which left out the little fact the airline ID beacon was not operating, like maybe delibrity).......left wing ex militarys, known for there positions and no one with any real knowledge of the above incident believes....

 

AKK

Edited October 18, 2012 by Tonka's Skipper

[Tonka's Skipper]

GEE.....maybe we should start discusing the Flaklands and the Brits illegal war there?..or maybe the Lusitiania and the Brit Goverments scap goating Captian Turner, or the Queen Mary and the cruiser, or the impressement of American seaman around 1812..............gee we can go on and on.........

 

The point is those isssues have nothing to do with the Concordia........

 

AKK

Edited October 18, 2012 by Tonka's Skipper

[wscott52]

Basically, Vincennes wanted a piece of the action that Montgomery was having, the crew had been on ops for a while and had seen no action....the adrenaline took over (just as it did on the bridge of Concordia whilst doing the fly-by, there was excitment at the prospect that took over the clear thinking minds).

 

Vincennes was in the wrong place, Concordia was in the wrong place...both caused by adrenaline junkies who wanted a piece of the action.

 

.

 

What an absolute crock.

 

You might want to read this if you can tear yourself away from Al-Jazeera:

 

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/International_security_affairs/other/172.pdf

[Tonka's Skipper]

I love the way some people who weren't there and don't know anything about a action zone and rules of engagment or sea lanes and who should be where and when, can sit back in there living rooms and expound words and opinion that is so wrong its pathedic!

 

 

 

And what do they use to bake thier opinion.,weki???..newsweek?..(which left out the little fact the airline ID beacon was not operating, like maybe delibrity).......left wing ex militarys, known for there positions and no one with any real knowledge of the above incident believes....

 

That smuffette person is a troll, dealing in half truths and a good ability to word posts, that are totally without merit or facts................shame on you !

 

and shame on me for breaking my rule and responding to you!... the troll............you can fool Sadeir and a few others.......frankly your not worth my time and will not waste my time in the future!

 

 

AKK

Edited October 18, 2012 by Tonka's Skipper

[sidari]

BBC Anti American what a pile of sheite? Reports written on the incident by Americans, families of those onboard the aircraft paid out by Americans and you still will not accept you were wrong ..... :rolleyes:

 

As for the Falkland islands we all know that was stage managed by another War monger by the name of Thatcher! in order to get herself re elected by a fickle UK public.

[balf]

, when Britain tried to enslave America, .[/QUOT

 

Britain never "tried to enslave America"

 

David.

[balf]

 

 

As for the Falkland islands we all know that was stage managed by another War monger by the name of Thatcher! in order to get herself re elected by a fickle UK public.

 

So let's see, next week the Argies send a landing party and occupy the Channel Islands and we send them an ultimation.....please leave or we will have to report you to the UN.

 

I am sure you don't hold the cousins in very high regard, but by heck the don't stand the messing we do at times.

 

David

[QM2 fan]

Meanwhile, back in the real world- what's the latest on Capt Catastrophe and the Concordia???

[Tonka's Skipper]

However, the latest from insurance giant Lloyd's said the cost has already increased 100 million so now I'd estimate around $487 million. And, I wouldn't be surprised to see it easily increase to well over $500 million.

 

A amazing about of money.

 

I still think it would have been better to break her up!.The oil is out of her to the degree it would not be enviromental problem. Granted the clean up of the ocean bottom would be more work then this plan, but overall alot cheaper.!

 

AKK

[Uniall]

, when Britain tried to enslave America, .[/QUOT

 

Britain never "tried to enslave America"

 

David.

 

 

David,

 

Oh really? That's why we wrote it down:

 

 

The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

 

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Edited October 18, 2012 by Uniall

[BlackHawk1]

A amazing about of money.

 

I still think it would have been better to break her up!.The oil is out of her to the degree it would not be enviromental problem.

 

AKK

 

 

With respect, I disagree that ALL the oil is out of the ship, there still as to be some fuel oil remaining plus all the engine lube oils and hydraulic oils still on board and also many other probable contaminates.

 

Regards

[Tonka's Skipper]

With respect, I disagree that ALL the oil is out of the ship, there still as to be some fuel oil remaining plus all the engine lube oils and hydraulic oils still on board and also many other probable contaminates.

 

Regards

 

 

Very true.......by Titan reports,about 98% of the oil is out of the vessel, but that oil and other contaminates could be managed as the vessel was taken apart and the parts removed on barges, etc, to a proper scrap yard.

 

I am not saying nessasarily its a best way.....but it would be faster and cheaper.

 

AKK

Edited October 18, 2012 by Tonka's Skipper

[cruiserfanfromct]

Schettino speaks for the first time today at the pre-trial hearings.

 

http://www.gazzettadelsud.it/news/english/18265/Costa-shipwreck-captain-speaks-in-court-for-first-time.html

[Ken711]

Very true.......by Titan reports' date='about 98% of the oil is out of the vessel, but that oil and other contaminates could be managed as the vessel was taken apart and the parts removed on barges, etc, to a proper scrap yard.

 

I am not saying nessasarily its a best way.....but it would be faster and cheaper.

 

AKK[/quote']

 

There is still a very real possibility that the ship's hull is so weakened from the position on the rocks, that it may not withstand the forces applied to right her. If that happens, then the ship will in fact have to be broken up, but obviously the higher recovery costs have already been committed.

[MDSue]

I love you all- I look forward to the news you add to the Concordia discussion, but all the unrelated arguing over irrelevant topics is really dragging this thread down and practically begging the mods to take it down. This is the best place to get today's news on the subject and I hate to lose that (I'm not a big poster,but I read it every day)

 

Can's everyone just agree to disagree and stick to the facts about the case? I think it's pretty clear what each individuals opinions are by now as they have been repeated over and over again.

 

:)

[Highlander0108]

CT .... Where does it say that the order from Schettino and then Ambrosio was after the collision ? cannot seem to see it anywhere.

 

"It gets even better...for some reason, the sonar was turned off too....no-one on the bridge would have known the depth of the water under their keel even if they wanted to know.

 

Who the heck had that essential equipment turned off has not been disclosed...yet"

 

Was there not a story some time back in the few weeks after it happened that said certain equipment was not working on Concordia that would be looked at when it returned to Savona? i remember the data recorder was in question as well.

 

I cannot believe that a ship of this size does not have backup equipment here. Even small yachts have backup systems! I further cannot fathom ANY captain taking a ship to sea without a functioning depthsounder. Really? On that item alone, he is negligent in my books for leaving the docks if essential equipment was non functional. He's responsible for the safety of the ship. Would an airline pilot leave the runway without instrumentation? By all means, I am not defending Costa, but it is beyond belief that there aren't redundant systems here. Take a look at any cruise ship mast and you will see several radars, for instance. Granted some are used for different ranges, but still, there is redundancy here. Someone prove me wrong here that this really isn't an issue that affected the joy riding performance of the captain.

[Ken711]

Relating to the fear of the hull giving way because of its position on the rocks below is a another great article which highlights the installation of cement bags to span the gap.

 

Teams working late into the night this week at the operation's nerve center in a hotel on Giglio coordinated the arrival of 66 divers tasked with putting 17,500 tons of cement bags in a 50-metre gap between the ship and the seabed.

 

The fear is that the midship section may give way, breaking the ship in half -- a risk greatly increased should there be bad weather over the coming winter.

 

"She's spanned between the reefs so the more support you give her the better she'll survive the winter. If we have a mild winter that will be great, but it's unlikely, and bad weather will mean delays for sure," Sloane said

 

Also as to the question regarding cost, it's already over $500 million, $525 million to date.

 

The project, which Carnival says will cost at least 400 million euros ($525 million), is already running several months late due to technical issues.

 

"The seabed is granite rock, not limestone or sandstone," Sloane said. "Granite rock is the worst kind to be drilling in, especially at the 35 to 40 degree angles that we're drilling. The drill head also slips on the rock." The team finally managed to get the first hole drilled this week.

 

Local builder Luca said he didn't mind how long it takes: "I'd rather they take their time over it than rush it, break the ship and pollute the shoreline" where even in mid-October locals and tourists swim in the crystal-clear waters.

 

http://news.discovery.com/earth/costa-concordia-salvage-121018.html

[wscott52]

I cannot believe that a ship of this size does not have backup equipment here. Even small yachts have backup systems! I further cannot fathom ANY captain taking a ship to sea without a functioning depthsounder. Really? .

 

With the precision of modern GPS it really isn't that big a deal being without a depth finder. If you know where you are within a few meters and have up to date charts you should know what the depth of the water is underneath you. Most depth finders also have fairly limited range. On ocean crossings when the water is far deeper than the depth finder can read it's not uncommon to turn it off. From what I read it may also be that the instrument failed after they left Civitavecchia. I also can't believe there was not backup. All the boats I've had and run with a flying bridge had units at both control stations. Schettino screwed up by going too fast and too close probably trying to impress the young lady he intended to take back to his room. There are also some witnesses who claim he had been drinking. There's a an audio tape on the net from the black box which clearly shows Schettino in command and the contadictory commands to steer both port and starboard came after the collision.

[sidari]

David ... You may not have seen it but in a recent poll the Falkland islanders said they do not consider themselves Brittish but a Falklander ! .. says it all really.

 

If the Argentines were to invade the channel islands who we gonna call Ghostbusters? certainly have no armed forces to send a bit like WW2 when the UK left them to their own devices under the Germans.

 

 

 

MDSue .... :)

[Tonka's Skipper]

If I remember correctly, Titan from the very begining said that this plan was not a 100% plan. There was a chance it may not work.

 

As you correctly pointed out Ken, she may yet break her back.

 

AKK

 

PS.I thought the bags were going to be filled with sand???

[cruiserfanfromct]

Latest news on Concordia:

 

Experts refute claim Costa Concordia captain saved lives

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gtBV1tlay-_XiubBu7D9zqFRORrA?docId=CNG.a0afd96f2aa3c0d49952def3ccba2468.231

 

Costa Concordia captain "in fighting mood" in Italian court

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/19/uk-concordia-hearing-idUSLNE89I01720121019

[Tonka's Skipper]

Latest news on Concordia:

 

Experts refute claim Costa Concordia captain saved lives

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gtBV1tlay-_XiubBu7D9zqFRORrA?docId=CNG.a0afd96f2aa3c0d49952def3ccba2468.231

 

Costa Concordia captain "in fighting mood" in Italian court

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/19/uk-concordia-hearing-idUSLNE89I01720121019

 

 

And these are all just the opening salvos!

 

AKK

[wscott52]

And these are all just the opening salvos!

 

AKK

 

If this were a US court Schettino would be heading to prison for a long time. His irresponsibility caused the accident, his actions immediately after the collision did nothing to minimize the disaster, his failure to abandon ship sooner probably cost lives, and his personally abandoning ship before the passengers were off was pure cowardice. Since it's an Italian court I can't be sure what will happen.