Concordia News: Please Post Here

[Ken711]

What are the economics re using, what is by now a hull in a sorry state, against constructing a new one. Seems highly unlikely that there would be any useful reason not to scrap. This is a cruise ship and the hull is probably only re usable as a cruise ship.

 

Ages ago here someone said it could be converted to carry livestock.

 

Horses for Findus maybe?

 

David.

 

It's going to be dismantled and scrapped. The argument is over where this would happen in terms of the economic impact of increased shipyard work. Below is the latest article in Giglio News:

 

It 'waiting for tomorrow in Rome the presentation of the choice made ​​by Costa Cruises on the destination port for the dismantling of the Concordia, which sank in the waters off the island of Giglio. The rumors circulating for a few days and now insistently reproduce is that the final choice of the Genoese company would be oriented to the construction of the Turkish town of Aliaga. would seem, but the conditional is only right that the last detail to clarify both the request that the yards would have turned to Costa namely that all the costs of disposing of the plastic material and the highly polluting should be charged against the shipping company. then this could be the proposal of Costa Cruises meeting tomorrow in Rome. From here to say that the final choice will be missing a key player or clearance by the Italian institutions hardly accept to see the wreck through the whole Mediterranean for a week trip to Turkey. Not to mention the economic impact that all industries, especially the Tuscany Region, would like to address to the port of Piombino, which, however, would require major infrastructure works to accommodate the ship.

[clive and anne]

Aliaga in Turkey would seem to be a heck of a distance to sail. They seem to be very confident that the wreck will be able to sail for a week past some of the nicest resorts. Be interesting to see if the rumour is true Ken.

I would have thought they would get it to the nearest available place and not take the chance.

[genni]

. My point was - if the Concordia had stayed in the shipping lanes where it belonged and was determined safe for ships to be, we would not be discussing this terrible tragedy. I don't know who or why a sail by was ordered but that decision is what caused the series of events that ultimately became the result of an unnecessary tragedy. That fateful decision, whomever made it, set the ball rolling to introduce human error, incompetence and possibly ship malfunctons to come together causing injury and loss of life.....agreed! But when posters go on and on about other problems with the ship and personnel no matter how knowledgable, valid and informing, when the implication that these reasons are why the accident initially happened is, at least for me, irritating.

 

Let's just take away the fact that the ship hit the rocks and caused the gash. Sailing that close to land at night with limited or no port support nearby, if the ship has a mechanical problem and goes dead in the water, its a good possibility she may be grounded from the wind or sea conditions. A ship and it's passengers should never be put in that situation but stay in safe waters.

 

By all means, continue the news and discussions of contributing factors and how to improve communications and design and all the other things that have been brought forth on this thread...but don't for a minute think those are the reasons this event happened.

Edited February 20, 2013 by genni
not finished the reply

[genni]

sorry all, did not complete my own reply...

There are regulations regarding how close a motarized ship/boat can get to the Italian coast, however small. A small motor boat can perhaps get to 300 meters off shore - (note this is often ignored by tourists, whether they have any knowledge of the Italian rules or not). There is no excuse for any cruise ship captain to permit the ship to be that close, especially an Italian one. There is a huge question as to why a cruise ship helmsman was not capable of understanding English or Italian (no officer ever noticed this?)...

It is not acceptable that a ship of that size was permitted to attempt to pass so near. I've swum around those rocks and cannot 'digest' the fact that anyone on the bridge permitted the Concordia to get that close. In January at night when there was no one out and around to be 'impressed' by an 'inchino' - sail-by? So terrible.

[Ken711]

Aliaga in Turkey would seem to be a heck of a distance to sail. They seem to be very confident that the wreck will be able to sail for a week past some of the nicest resorts. Be interesting to see if the rumour is true Ken.

I would have thought they would get it to the nearest available place and not take the chance.

 

Assuming everything goes well in righting the ship, even with the sponsons attached, the ship is going to sit low in the water and I wonder if only a few ports with shipyards are deep enough to accept it.

[clive and anne]

I wonder what are the current proposals for retrieving the personal possessions of passengers and staff. Presumably the only thing worth saving would be jewellery which may have sentimental value. I wonder if cabin safes from the cabins above water have been recovered. I seem to remember early days that the Captains possessions were brought out of the wreck and that was how we were told that the "dancers" cloths were found in his cabin.

[Tonka's Skipper]

This was posted in a news release on CC in August 2012.

 

Gianni Onorato, Costa's president, told Cruise Critic in early May that the ship will ultimately be scrapped.

 

 

There have been a number of reports since May that there had not been a final decssion on scrapping or a number of other options.

 

I have stated my opinion way back at the beginging that she would be scraped. Reasons the water damage, hull damamge and resting on the bottom rocking , and time. I remember some folks having a different view.

 

 

From a legal point of view, I would expect the hulk to still be *owned* by Costa Line, but of course the various insurance companies/groups and whatever if any self insurance risk Costa has is paying the bills.

 

AKK

[sidari]

Tonka .... I stand to be corrected and unless Marine Insurance is any different from General Insurance an Industry i used to work in, when an Insurer pays out for replacement of say a damaged car then that car becomes the possesion of the Insurance company up until they sell or scrap the car.

 

I would think that the same applies to Concordia that the Insurance companies own it but have appointed Costa to oversee its removal.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Tonka .... I stand to be corrected and unless Marine Insurance is any different from General Insurance an Industry i used to work in, when an Insurer pays out for replacement of say a damaged car then that car becomes the possesion of the Insurance company up until they sell or scrap the car.

 

I would think that the same applies to Concordia that the Insurance companies own it but have appointed Costa to oversee its removal.

 

Hi Sid!

 

Your point is well taken, however with Marine there is differences. I have been involved in a number of major ship grounding. sinkings etc. None of the underwriters would want to take actual ownership of the vessel due to the recovery costs...they will pay their share and then deduct any scrap value and let the hulk stay in the owners name. If their share of the recovery costs exceeds the insurred amount, they pay the full amount, then walk away. They don't want ownership due to unforseen liabilities.......IE........what if the hulk sinks while being towed to the wreckers?.or it has a oil leak.??etc......

 

I do want to correct part of my earlier post............I don't think Costa ever directly owned the Concordia, there was most likely a holding company. Of course somewhere down the corporate line the holding company was owned by Costa Line/Carnival Inc.

 

AKK

Edited February 20, 2013 by Tonka's Skipper

[Tonka's Skipper]

While I totally agree with your position (and mine for that matter)that the vessel should never have been in that close inshore, especailly one that big, it was plain unsafe, (we here have had a few hot discussions on this issue), these other issues, including possible mechcanical, actions of other personal, (Vessel Officers and Office staff), all contributed to the incident and will be part of the final investigation reports and court actions, in cuasation.

 

AKK

[sidari]

Tonka ... Thanks for that info .... :)

[sidari]

As Tonka says there is not just one contributing factor in any given Accident or Disaster.

[Uniall]

The law doesn't look at contributing factors, it looks for "Proximate Cause(s)" .

Contributing factors don't excuse, they may only mitigate.

[Ken711]

Hi Sid!

 

Your point is well taken' date=' however with Marine there is differences. I have been involved in a number of major ship grounding. sinkings etc. None of the underwriters would want to take actual ownership of the vessel due to the recovery costs...they will pay their share and then deduct any scrap value and let the hulk stay in the owners name. If their share of the recovery costs exceeds the insurred amount, they pay the full amount, then walk away. They don't want ownership due to unforseen liabilities.......IE........what if the hulk sinks while being towed to the wreckers?.or it has a oil leak.??etc......

 

I do want to correct part of my earlier post............I don't think Costa ever directly owned the Concordia, there was most likely a holding company. Of course somewhere down the corporate line the holding company was owned by Costa Line/Carnival Inc.

 

AKK[/quote']

 

Hey Tonka,

 

I posted this to Clive and Anne do you think the fact that the ship will be sitting so low in the water even with the sponsons will have a bearing on what shipyard is awarded the breakers contract due to having sufficient port water depth.

[qtlikeme]

We were told from the very beginning that we would have the items in our safes returned to us. Early communication from Costa had us list the items in our safe so they would have record of it. Our cabin is underwater and I do not hold out any hope of anything being returned to us. Sadly, we did not take the time to put our valuables in the safe as we had only boarded the ship at 5:30 pm on that fateful Friday the 13th! Luckily we did not have anything of great value with us that could not be replaced!:)

[Tonka's Skipper]

Hey Tonka,

 

I posted this to Clive and Anne do you think the fact that the ship will be sitting so low in the water even with the sponsons will have a bearing on what shipyard is awarded the breakers contract due to having sufficient port water depth.

 

Hi Ken,

 

Usually the breakers pay the owners of the vessels to get the rights to vessel, (IE scrap steel and metals). I dont think the hulk will have all that much more draft to be a big issue. However in this case, they may not be able to take her to far and the actual cutting up maybe done at a yard that usally doesn't do this and may indeed charge to do it.

 

 

Time will tell......AKK

[Tonka's Skipper]

The law doesn't look at contributing factors, it looks for "Proximate Cause(s)" .

 

Contributing factors don't excuse, they may only mitigate.

 

Hey there stranger!

 

I guess that is what I meant.you just siad it better!:D

 

AKK

[Uniall]

Hey there stranger!

 

I guess that is what I meant.you just siad it better!:D

 

AKK

 

Ahoy Skipper

 

Lately, I've been dropping by for just a quick left jab because I'm honchoing two Cruise Critic Roll Calls for upcomning cruises. One is a Trans Altantic with 150 members and 10 events. The other is the Baltic Capitols with 75 members and 1 event (too port heavy for more events).

 

But, I've been lurking, laughing and loving the Concordia thread.

 

Skipper, just remember the immortal fictional latin phrase popularlized by WWII US Gen. "Vinegar" Joe Stilwell: "Illigitimi Non Carborundum."

 

John

Edited February 21, 2013 by Uniall

[Ken711]

Hi Ken' date='

 

Usually the breakers pay the owners of the vessels to get the rights to vessel, (IE scrap steel and metals). I dont think the hulk will have all that much more draft to be a big issue. However in this case, they may not be able to take her to far and the actual cutting up maybe done at a yard that usally doesn't do this and may indeed charge to do it.

 

 

Time will tell......AKK[/quote']

 

Thanks.

[balf]

Ahoy Skipper

 

 

 

Skipper, just remember the immortal fictional latin phrase popularlized by WWII US Gen. "Vinegar" Joe Stilwell: "Illigitimi Non Carborundum."

 

John

 

May have been popularised, but it originated in British Army Intligence early in ww2.

 

Before you woke up.

 

David.

[sidari]

YAWN ..... Just Woke up from a post that sent me to sleep .... :D

[Uniall]

YAWN ..... Just Woke up from a post that sent me to sleep .... :D

 

Sid

 

I've observed: "asleep" is your standard operating procedure.:D

Edited February 22, 2013 by Uniall

[clive and anne]

Hi All

I am cruising from Sunday until 7th March,but I will be looking in as and when I can.

Look forward to any updates the group supplies.

Best Wishes

Clive

[Ken711]

Hi All

I am cruising from Sunday until 7th March,but I will be looking in as and when I can.

Look forward to any updates the group supplies.

Best Wishes

Clive

 

Enjoy your cruise.

 

Ken

[Ken711]

The first 5 of the 30 sponsons have arrived at the Titan-Micoperi forward operating base port in Livorno.

 

Livorno, February 22, 2013 - Do not even get the official decision of Costa Cruises on where it will go the wreck of the Concordia. But at least begin to appear the famous maxi-chests that the consortium Titan-Micoperi use to straighten and raise the 300 meters of the hull still semiaffondato Giglio. The first five "sponsons" arrived yesterday on the big barge Mak Fagioli and presumably will be discharged today or tomorrow in the terminal Unicoop the industrial canal, owned by former footballer Cristiano Lucarelli.

 

They made ​​a long journey: the sponsons are parties to Ancona, where the Fincantieri built them, and they have circumnavigated the peninsula, with a technical stop in Palermo . Mak the barge and its tugboat Ril start again mid-week for the second trip to Castellammare di Stabia . Third will follow, probably from Genoa.

 

Of the thirty sponsons required for the operation, only twenty-six will arrive in Livorno for further processing on the accessories: four for the bow of the wreck , which have curves and special volumes, arrive at Giglio by the end of May.

 

The five arrived yesterday in Livorno are of two different sizes: the three largest weighing 500 tons each, are 30 meters long, 11 high and 11 deep. The two children weighing 395 tonnes and are smaller in both length and height. Also the different methods of landing : the big ones are on special 'centipede' turned the beans, while others are of similar slides. The landing will be improved through an inclined plane steel between the barge and the terminal.

 

Once on the ground, another delicate operation, always cured by Beans, allow to overturn of 180 degrees for machining requirements. Two containers of the Titan are a few days in the terminal with the special 'big rings' that will be welded to the sponsons . As the work will be completed, the sponsons are then sent to the Giglio - always with the barge in tow - to be attached to the first side of the wreck was found, then - once righted the boat - the starboard side.

 

Clink the link below for photos.

http://multimedia.quotidiano.net/?tipo=photo&media=54699