Concordia News: Please Post Here

[greg-nc]

If they aren't paying for and making arrangements for the transport of the bodies that would be beyond cruel. Has this been reported on? Has there been credible reports about the treatment of passengers once they were on shore? I've followed this since day one and other than comments posted here from some that were on the ship, I haven't seen any detailed information about it.

 

I believe that earlier press stated that the Italian government stepped in and has been working with the families of the missing and deceased in terms of the families traveling to Italy, visiting the Concordia for a ceremony, and anything involving transport of the bodies.

 

I don't know if this is because that Costa failed in working with the families, or that the Italian government thought having oversight in helping the families was an appropriate action by the government in this situation.

[Longin2cruise]

I agree that doing the right thing would be better but in today's "sue" happy environment company's and individuals have to be very careful what they say and do. If you even show a tiny hint of accepting fault for something you are opening yourself up to enormous losses. But by denying or shifting blame you put the burden of proving fault on someone else, which in turn can lower the amount of loss. Again it would be nice to be able to admit fault and move on but in this case no matter how much fault Costa admits to they are going to take it in the shorts.

 

I'm not defending Costa's handling of this mess but looking at it from the stand point that this is being done to protect their interests. As for people not cruising with them because of the way they are handling this, I doubt it's going to have that much of an effect in the long run (I could be wrong). Sure there will be some past Costa customers that will not sail with them again and there will also be people that because of this will not cruise with them but in the long run it will be a wash. While I don't fly a lot, I do fly a couple of times each year and I have not once thought about flying US Airways because of the way they handled that incident.

 

If they aren't paying for and making arrangements for the transport of the bodies that would be beyond cruel. Has this been reported on? Has there been credible reports about the treatment of passengers once they were on shore? I've followed this since day one and other than comments posted here from some that were on the ship, I haven't seen any detailed information about it.

 

Here is the link to another thread that I posted. It is a rather long article by Reuters, but it gives a good look at the length to which cruise companies go to avoid legal responsibility. You should look on post #67 on this thread for this link.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1569648&page=4

[Ratt]

Here is the link to another thread that I posted. It is a rather long article by Reuters, but it gives a good look at the length to which cruise companies go to avoid legal responsibility. You should look on post #67 on this thread for this link.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1569648&page=4

 

Interesting to say the least.

 

Knowing that the cruise lines are using the cruise contract to greatly limit their liability are you still willing to cruise? I will but it doesn't mean I think the contract is fair.

[Longin2cruise]

Interesting to say the least.

 

Knowing that the cruise lines are using the cruise contract to greatly limit their liability are you still willing to cruise? I will but it doesn't mean I think the contract is fair.

 

Well, the good part of my current situation is that I am elderly & have to live on a rather strict budget. My cruising days are most likely in the past. Were my circumstances different I would probably hop on the next cruise ship but I woud know I would be totally dependent on myself, both physically & financially. I have been on quite a few fabulous cruises, especially those in the Med.

[loge23]

According to one of the salvage company's sites (below), the six (6) forward fuel/oil tanks have all been emptied. They are now proceeding to the mid-vessel tanks however the seas are not cooperating. I will assume that there will be three operations, for the forward, mid-ship, and finally rear tanks before all of the oil is effectively removed. Some progress, anyway.

 

http://www.boskalis.com/press/news/news-page/latest-update-costa-concordia.html

[CruisersNC]

I can only agree with the above.

 

Considering the offer from Costa / Carnival Corp. is the lowest proposed initial settlement offer for a major transportation disaster in Europe or the U.S. in the past 30 years - the entire treatment of the passengers is a complete PR fiasco that will reduce future business for Costa considerably.

 

Contrast what Costa did with the actions of US Airways after Captain Sully landed a plane in the Hudson. US Airways quickly acted to treat the passengers well and compensated them. 100% of the passengers took the US Airways settlement offer (which was greater financially than Costa's) and most greatly praised the airline's handling of the entire event. It actually turned into a positive PR event for US Airways and bookings went up.

 

 

 

Seems kind of like comparing apples to oranges. In one instance you have a jet with 155 people aboard who crash into a flock of birds and the heroic captain using his skills and thankfull lack of panic...guided the jet to a miraculous and safe landing on the Hudson. Now take the Concordia who's Captains seemingly wreckless behavior drove the ship onto the rocks with over 4000 people aboard....then panicked and delayed getting the passengers to safety....then left the ship and refused to go back. I checked out the US flight 1549 details on Wikipedia.....it states that:

 

"The passengers on the aircraft each received a letter of apology, $5,000 in compensation for lost baggage, or $5,000 more if passengers can demonstrate more than $5,000 in losses, and a refund of the ticket price.[88][89] Beginning in May 2009, passengers received their baggage and other belongings. In addition, passengers reported they were offered $10,000 each not to sue US Airways for damages by American International Group (AIG), the airline's insurance carrier.[90]"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_Airways_Flight_1549

 

So it appears to me that Costa's "initial" settlement offer is substantially higher than US Airways was ($14,605.71 + losses vs. $5000 + losses). The insurance company in the US Airway case later offered up to $10,000 to each passenger if they agreed not to sue.....don't know how many took them up on that. Don't know if Costa's insurers will do the same in upcoming months. I don't know what a "fair" offer is.....I imagine everyone has their own opinion. I can only say that if my wife and I had been on the Concordia that night and escaped uninjured...and Costa offered us a total of $29,000+ for our night of horror....I would have taken it....just as reportedly 1/3 of the Concordia passengers already have. But then I put little to no blame on the company for this accident....I place it squarely on the Captains back....so I guess I have more empathy for the embattled cruise company....they're taking an enormous monetary hit for a wreckless Captains actions.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia_disaster

[greg-nc]

Seems kind of like comparing apples to oranges. In one instance you have a jet with 155 people aboard who crash into a flock of birds and the heroic captain using his skills and thankfull lack of panic...guided the jet to a miraculous and safe landing on the Hudson. Now take the Concordia who's Captains seemingly wreckless behavior drove the ship onto the rocks with over 4000 people aboard....then panicked and delayed getting the passengers to safety....then left the ship and refused to go back. I checked out the US flight 1549 details on Wikipedia.....it states that:

 

"The passengers on the aircraft each received a letter of apology, $5,000 in compensation for lost baggage, or $5,000 more if passengers can demonstrate more than $5,000 in losses, and a refund of the ticket price.[88][89] Beginning in May 2009, passengers received their baggage and other belongings. In addition, passengers reported they were offered $10,000 each not to sue US Airways for damages by American International Group (AIG), the airline's insurance carrier.[90]"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_Airways_Flight_1549

 

So it appears to me that Costa's "initial" settlement offer is substantially higher than US Airways was ($14,605.71 + losses vs. $5000 + losses). The insurance company in the US Airway case later offered up to $10,000 to each passenger if they agreed not to sue.....don't know how many took them up on that. Don't know if Costa's insurers will do the same in upcoming months. I don't know what a "fair" offer is.....I imagine everyone has their own opinion. I can only say that if my wife and I had been on the Concordia that night and escaped uninjured...and Costa offered us a total of $29,000+ for our night of horror....I would have taken it....just as reportedly 1/3 of the Concordia passengers already have. But then I put little to no blame on the company for this accident....I place it squarely on the Captains back....so I guess I have more empathy for the embattled cruise company....they're taking an enormous monetary hit for a wreckless Captains actions.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia_disaster

 

Actually the US Air settlement offer from Day 1 was $10,000 (AIG), $5000 for lost baggage, another $5000 to anyone with laptops or electronics, plus you got all your baggage back. Your flight was refunded (approx $300), flight home paid for (approx $300), and hotels ($150) /food ($150) /taxi paid (approx. $100) for (even at your destination to/from airport to get spare keys for you car). The base value of the US Airways package was $21,000 for nearly every passenger on the plane. This was offered from the start. 100% of passengers took US Airways up on the offer.

 

$21,000 is far more than the Costa settlement offer of $14,605.71 (which does not include getting your luggage back, etc.)

 

BTW - my co-worker was on this flight.

[CruisersNC]

Actually the US Air settlement offer from Day 1 was $10,000 (AIG), $5000 for lost baggage, another $5000 to anyone with laptops or electronics, plus you got all your baggage back. Your flight was refunded (approx $300), flight home paid for (approx $300), and hotels ($150) /food ($150) /taxi paid (approx. $100) for (even at your destination to/from airport to get spare keys for you car). The base value of the US Airways package was $21,000 for nearly every passenger on the plane. This was offered from the start. 100% of passengers took US Airways up on the offer.

 

$21,000 is far more than the Costa settlement offer of $14,605.71 (which does not include getting your luggage back, etc.)

 

BTW - my co-worker was on this flight.

 

 

 

I posted a link showing my source for the $$ numbers.....where did you get your information from? Please post a link so we can all study the numbers. Thanks.

[greg-nc]

I posted a link showing my source for the $$ numbers.....where did you get your information from? Please post a link so we can all study the numbers. Thanks.

 

The numbers are directly out of your link - which is the same as a link I posted earlier in a discussion. Very plainly $5000 + $5000 + $10,000 is a minimum of $20,000.

 

I will also point out that US Airways treated these passengers properly from Day 1 and communicated very well with them. Something Costa failed to do...

[jmf123]

It is so sad. One of the bodies recovered was the little five year old child. Her father has not been found yet.

 

So heartbreaking. :( Italian officials released a list of confirmed dead and unaccounted for passengers as of yesterday: http://www.startribune.com/world/140011433.html

[CruisersNC]

The numbers are directly out of your link - which is the same as a link I posted earlier in a discussion. Very plainly $5000 + $5000 + $10,000 is a minimum of $20,000.

 

I will also point out that US Airways treated these passengers properly from Day 1 and communicated very well with them. Something Costa failed to do...

 

 

As I stated in my post...supported by the link I posted....the $10,000 was an offer made months AFTER the accident by the INSURANCE COMPANY with the stipulation that should the person take that money they agree not to sue. That was NOT compensation from US Air. Costa's insurers could still do the same thing...and I hope they do.....although the law suits are already flying. So it appears that Costa "initially" offered more than US Air did!

[greg-nc]

As I stated in my post...supported by the link I posted....the $10,000 was an offer made months AFTER the accident by the INSURANCE COMPANY with the stipulation that should the person take that money they agree not to sue. That was NOT compensation from US Air. Costa's insurers could still do the same thing...and I hope they do.....although the law suits are already flying. So it appears that Costa "initially" offered more than US Air did!

 

Actually all the passengers were told by US Airways nearly immediately they would be getting a letter from AIG about a proposed settlement, the letter arrived 45 days after the crash in the case of our co-worker. The $5000 for luggage, and additional $5000 plus all the electronics luggage, money to get home, etc. were done within 48 hours of the plane going down.

 

The money from AIG was part of the entire US Airways package; simply it's source of funding was the insurance company and not the airline.

 

Let's get back to WHAT IS THE TOTAL VALUE OF WHAT WAS OFFERED TO THE PASSENGERS? COSTA VS. US AIRWAYS

 

Let me state that the passengers on Costa will not be getting an additional offer from the insurance companies. If they were going to, they would be informed of this pending transaction in the offer letter from Costa (like US Airways did).

[kingcruiser1]

Let's get back to WHAT IS THE TOTAL VALUE OF WHAT WAS OFFERED TO THE PASSENGERS? COSTA VS. US AIRWAYS

Gentlemen, might I suggest that this become the title of a new thread? Please refer to my previous post if further explanation is needed.

Edited February 23, 2012 by kingcruiser1

[greg-nc]

Let me point out the other thing that is completely disturbing about the Costa settlement offer when compared to US Airways.

 

The Costa offer of $14,000 is expected to compensate you for all the possessions that you lost in your cabin. To get compensated for your possessions, you have to sign a waiver that you will not sue Costa.

 

US Airways compensated passengers with $5000 for their luggage and an additional $5000 for those with expensive electronics from Day 1. They did not require the passengers sign an agreement to not sue to get this money and all of their possessions back also. Passengers were free to sue after getting this money. In other words, the passengers were made whole for their possessions and still had the option to sue.

 

Only the $10,000 settlement from US Airways via their AIG insurance agent which came a couple of months later required that a passenger to sign away their right to sue to get the money.

[CruisersNC]

Actually all the passengers were told by US Airways nearly immediately they would be getting a letter from AIG about a proposed settlement, the letter arrived 45 days after the crash in the case of our co-worker. The $5000 for luggage, and additional $5000 plus all the electronics luggage, money to get home, etc. were done within 48 hours of the plane going down.

 

The money from AIG was part of the entire US Airways package; simply it's source of funding was the insurance company and not the airline.

 

Let's get back to WHAT IS THE TOTAL VALUE OF WHAT WAS OFFERED TO THE PASSENGERS? COSTA VS. US AIRWAYS

 

Let me state that the passengers on Costa will not be getting an additional offer from the insurance companies. If they were going to, they would be informed of this pending transaction in the offer letter from Costa (like US Airways did).

 

 

 

Here again is the information from Wiki about the US Air compensation:

 

"The passengers on the aircraft each received a letter of apology, $5,000 in compensation for lost baggage, or $5,000 more if passengers can demonstrate more than $5,000 in losses, and a refund of the ticket price.[88][89] Beginning in May 2009, passengers received their baggage and other belongings. In addition, passengers reported they were offered $10,000 each not to sue US Airways for damages by American International Group (AIG), the airline's insurance carrier.[90]"

 

The key word here is OR!!! $5000 for lost baggage OR $5000 more IF passengers can demonstrate more than $5000 in losses. Plus they received the cost of their flight...which should have been a few hundred dollars. Then there was the offer of $10,000 from the insurance company IF they chose not to sue. So anyone who couldn't prove more than $5000 in losses...and i'm sure there was some....would have received a little over $15000 including the Insurance company's offer...which is almost identical to the Concordia offer. Here is the link again if anyone wants to study it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_Airways_Flight_1549

 

You've made a lot of blanket statements without showing any proof...such as:

 

"..... instead of the lowest initial proposed settlement offer in the past 30 years of major transportation disasters in Europe and the U.S. "

"Considering the offer from Costa / Carnival Corp. is the lowest proposed initial settlement offer for a major transportation disaster in Europe or the U.S. in the past 30 years"

"Contrast what Costa did with the actions of US Airways after Captain Sully landed a plane in the Hudson. US Airways quickly acted to treat the passengers well and compensated them. 100% of the passengers took the US Airways settlement offer "

 

For those of you who are having caniptions about this kind of discussion...I'm only asking for people to share the links with us where they got their information so that we can all study it. If you say something like "this is the lowest initial proposed settlement offer in the past 30 years of major transportation disasters in Europe and the U.S." I would hope you can show all of us where you obtained that information. I don't know why the other threads poofed....but I don't think it was because of the back and forth banter....because that takes place in threads all over CC every single day. There's got to be another reason. I don't have any problem with people stating their opinions....but if someone states that X is a fact....they need to back it up with some proof. Sorry to those who are stressing....I just think that accuracy has some importance.

[MorganMars]

For some links to source documents, I am copying this here to make it easier for people to find some of the materials from the Italian courts that I have come across.

 

 

Most of the links are in Italian, so you may need to do some translating.

This comes from a question I answered on another thread.

 

http://download.repubblica.it/pdf/20...a_grosseto.pdf

http://download.repubblica.it/pdf/2012/inchieste/cap-3.pdf

http://download.repubblica.it/pdf/2012/inchieste/cap-2-pag-72-77.pdf

http://download.repubblica.it/pdf/2012/inchieste/cap-1-pag-45-47.pdf

http://inchieste.repubblica.it/it/repubb....ttino-28610754/

 

If the links may be a little dicey, but they can be found on the La Republica website. I've tested them, but they're not consistently available.

 

MorganMars

[greg-nc]

Sorry...I didn't see all those posts asking for us to cease and desist until after I had posted my last post......Don't want to cause anyone any more undue stress.

 

The same here.

 

On the news front, it is interesting to note that all the U.K. insurance companies have been coming out in the last few days announcing their exposure to the Concordia sinking. The latest is Lancashire with a $35M net exposure. They provide a figure that the total industry loss is expected to be $850 million.

 

Lancashire Holdings Limited : Exposure to Costa Concordia

[judyzoo]

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Costa+Concordia+captain+Francesco+Schettino+facing+charge/6196877/story.html

 

Captain Schettino is facing additional charges for failing to describe to maratime authorities the scope of the disaster.

 

I am encouraged that Italian authorities are apparently serious about their investigation.

 

This sounds good. I'm an attorney in the U.S. but know nothing about Italian law. However if there is a such a charge, it certainly seems to fit. "Just having an electrical problem" hardly described the true situation.

[judyzoo]

I can only agree with the above.

 

Considering the offer from Costa / Carnival Corp. is the lowest proposed initial settlement offer for a major transportation disaster in Europe or the U.S. in the past 30 years - the entire treatment of the passengers is a complete PR fiasco that will reduce future business for Costa considerably.

 

Contrast what Costa did with the actions of US Airways after Captain Sully landed a plane in the Hudson. US Airways quickly acted to treat the passengers well and compensated them. 100% of the passengers took the US Airways settlement offer (which was greater financially than Costa's) and most greatly praised the airline's handling of the entire event. It actually turned into a positive PR event for US Airways and bookings went up.

 

Not saying that Costa is doing the right thing, but it's a negotiating tactic. Make a low offer, so that you have room to move up to increase the offer during negotiations. If you make a reasonable, acceptable offer at first, the other side will think that they can get more from you.

[Keel Haul]

I think I said tht awile ago.....

must be an echo..........empty vessels Edited February 24, 2012 by Keel Haul

[alita]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46500104/ns/travel-news/#.T0e85mB4Vcw

[SomeBeach]

The article in the following link claims Dayanna's father was id'd by a tattoo on his arm. He was among those recovered from the ship on Wed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9103705/Concordia-captain-changed-ships-speed-for-dinner-with-ex-dancer.html

[watertheodds]

This was a great link for me. I know some of the information was old but there were actually pictures that I had not seen yet and I have followed the story pretty close. Does anyone know if they have recovered the rest of the bodies that were discovered on Wednesday?

[ScarboroughCruiser]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46500104/ns/travel-news/#.T0e85mB4Vcw

 

"The prosecutors also blame Costa's crisis unit of being "culpably unaware of the real situation on board the ship" and of falling to properly verify the information provided to it by Schettino.

The unit limited itself to "bureaucratic aspects...and to the future prospects of repairing the ship," the report said."

 

These statements from the above link indicates the widening of the potential blame for the sinking and loss of life beyond a rogue captain. It also speaks to the management culture of Costa and perhaps Carnival Corp that we as future cruisers should monitor as the trial moves forward.

[SomeBeach]

This was a great link for me. I know some of the information was old but there were actually pictures that I had not seen yet and I have followed the story pretty close. Does anyone know if they have recovered the rest of the bodies that were discovered on Wednesday?

 

I have been trying to get confirmation that the others were recovered yesterday but can't find anything.

I do know from watching the Giglio webcam yesterday that at about 5 p.m. (Italy time) I saw the helicopter hovering over the ship and then haul "something" up from it. I can't state for sure what might have been pulled up.

I enlarged the screen view to better see what was hovering so I wouldn't mistake it for anything other than what I thought it was. It was a red helicopter.