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Concordia News: Please Post Here

kingcruiser1

By kingcruiser1,
in Costa Cruises

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AUDirt

AUDirt

Posted
Posted
Not sure what you mean by "unlikely". If you mean because the ship was "dead in the water", then I agree as far as the 6 main generators as they were near the hull failure. But emergency generators kicked minimal lights on in the ship as well as the bridge.

 

Other Maritime authorities on the other thread (the one that is now locked) commented some 3-4 weeks ago, since the forward thruster had its own generators and plotting the movement of the ship, that Schettino may have used the thrusters to turn the bow of the ship around.They had a minute by minute breakdown of the movement of the CONCORDIA on a chart just like the Discovery Channel with an "authority" commenting on every movement of the ship.

 

At any rate, I'm sure in the TRIAL, either the captain and one of the officers will testify whether or not the bow thruster was used at this time. The black box recording will also probably indicate whether or not the thruster was used.

 

 

Presumably the people on the TV special are experts within their field. They're instructors at what is (I presume) a noteworthy maritime academy. Certainly they would have been aware of any generators for the bow thrusters that were independent of the main generators.

 

But even if he did turn the ship around, what good did that action do? He did a 180 degree turn. The only thing that changed was the side of the ship that went in the water.

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Vampire Parrot

Vampire Parrot

Posted
Posted (edited)

As promised, a picture showing how electrical power is distributed to the various electrical buses on a Vista-class cruise ship.

 

The six main diesel generators power the 11KV bus, XA872A and XA872B

 

Transformers power the 690V buses XA872C, XA872D, XA873A, XA873C from the 11KV buses. The 11KV bus cannot be powered from the 690V buses.

 

The EDG (Emergency Diesel Generator) at the top right only powers the 690V buses. If it's the only generator running then the 11KV bus will not be powered. It can power the main 690V buses via breakers 909, 309 and 410.

 

http://pictures.cruisecritic.com/showphoto.php?photo=23370

 

The next picture shows how the propulsion units are powered.

 

The azipods and bow thrusters BT1, BT2, BT3 are powered from the 11KV buses. The azipods also take power from the 690V buses for the exciters.

 

Each bow thruster can draw up to 1.9MW. Each azipod can draw 17.6MW.

 

http://pictures.cruisecritic.com/showphoto.php?photo=23371

 

VP

showphoto.php?photo=23370

Edited by Vampire Parrot
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Dmetrius

Dmetrius

Posted
Posted
As promised, a picture showing how electrical power is distributed to the various electrical buses on a Vista-class cruise ship.

 

The six main diesel generators power the 11KV bus, XA872A and XA872B

 

Transformers power the 690V buses XA872C, XA872D, XA873A, XA873C from the 11KV buses. The 11KV bus cannot be powered from the 690V buses.

 

The EDG (Emergency Diesel Generator) at the top right only powers the 690V buses. If it's the only generator running then the 11KV bus will not be powered. It can power the main 690V buses via breakers 909, 309 and 410.

 

http://pictures.cruisecritic.com/showphoto.php?photo=23370

 

The next picture shows how the propulsion units are powered.

 

The azipods and bow thrusters BT1, BT2, BT3 are powered from the 11KV buses. The azipods also take power from the 690V buses for the exciters.

 

Each bow thruster can draw up to 1.9MW. Each azipod can draw 17.6MW.

 

http://pictures.cruisecritic.com/showphoto.php?photo=23371

 

VP

showphoto.php?photo=23370

Well done! Thank you. Nice to see the technical stuff. Milaandra and the other NTSB types sleuthing this accident will know just what to make of THIS I'm sure. :)
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glrounds

glrounds

Posted
Posted
Presumably the people on the TV special are experts within their field. They're instructors at what is (I presume) a noteworthy maritime academy. Certainly they would have been aware of any generators for the bow thrusters that were independent of the main generators.

 

As were the maritime experts that commented in the thread some 3-4 weeks ago.

 

But even if he did turn the ship around, what good did that action do? He did a 180 degree turn. The only thing that changed was the side of the ship that went in the water.

 

If, the captain did in fact use the thrusters he only turned the ship 90 degrees to allow the onshore flow of the wind to push the ship into shallower water. (according to the GPS tracking of the previous "maritime authorities" the ship was headed out to sea perpendicular to the shoreline).

 

On the "other" thread there was also some comments about the captain dropping the anchor in order to swing the aft of the ship around to swing the port side of the ship INTO THE WIND.

 

T

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littlesteelo

littlesteelo

Posted
Posted (edited)
As promised, a picture showing how electrical power is distributed to the various electrical buses on a Vista-class cruise ship.

 

The six main diesel generators power the 11KV bus, XA872A and XA872B

 

Transformers power the 690V buses XA872C, XA872D, XA873A, XA873C from the 11KV buses. The 11KV bus cannot be powered from the 690V buses.

 

The EDG (Emergency Diesel Generator) at the top right only powers the 690V buses. If it's the only generator running then the 11KV bus will not be powered. It can power the main 690V buses via breakers 909, 309 and 410.

 

http://pictures.cruisecritic.com/showphoto.php?photo=23370

 

The next picture shows how the propulsion units are powered.

 

The azipods and bow thrusters BT1, BT2, BT3 are powered from the 11KV buses. The azipods also take power from the 690V buses for the exciters.

 

Each bow thruster can draw up to 1.9MW. Each azipod can draw 17.6MW.

 

http://pictures.cruisecritic.com/showphoto.php?photo=23371

 

VP

showphoto.php?photo=23370

 

You do know Concordia is not a Vista class ship. The Concordia class is a derivative of the Destiny class Carnival ships, completely different to the Vista class. Concordia does not have Azipods.

Edited by littlesteelo
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Vampire Parrot

Vampire Parrot

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yes, I do know that Concordia is not a Vista-class ship. As far as propulsion goes, it's not too different.... instead of power going from the two main power buses to azipods, it goes to inboard motors. For Concordia I'd expect the motors to draw somewhere between 18MW and 22MW each.

 

I'd be surprised if power to the bow thrusters is significantly different on Concordia to Vista-class ships. Three bow thrusters on each; not really enough power on a Vista ship but it'll do. (I'd really like 8MW to 10MW of bow thrust). Anyway - the bow thrusters on a Vista ship are 3x 1.8MW, variable pitch, probably the same on Concordia. They can be run at low power; set zero thrust, the pitch is small and they don't draw much power. But push the bow thruster lever left or right... and you will be demanding 5MW. Too much for a little genny.

 

Edited to add - if the Captain did use the little genny to power the bow thrusters to turn the ship so she'd ground... then bloody well done. Alas, I don't think he did....

 

VP

Edited by Vampire Parrot
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littlesteelo

littlesteelo

Posted
Posted
Yes, I do know that Concordia is not a Vista-class ship. As far as propulsion goes, it's not too different.... instead of power going from the two main power buses to azipods, it goes to inboard motors. For Concordia I'd expect the motors to draw somewhere between 18MW and 22MW each.

 

I'd be surprised if power to the bow thrusters is significantly different on Concordia to Vista-class ships. Three bow thrusters on each; not really enough power on a Vista ship but it'll do. (I'd really like 8MW to 10MW of bow thrust). Anyway - the bow thrusters on a Vista ship are 3x 1.8MW, variable pitch, probably the same on Concordia. They can be run at low power; set zero thrust, the pitch is small and they don't draw much power. But push the bow thruster lever left or right... and you will be demanding 5MW. Too much for a little genny.

 

VP

 

Yes, I agree that there is no way there would be separate generators for the bow thrusters, and emergency power will cut out everything but communication and emergency lighting. I think the most plausible explanation is that the captain dropped the anchor to swing the ship 180 degrees.

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Cruise Cat

Cruise Cat

Posted
Posted
"Costa Concordia: What made the captain panic?" is posted in February 22nd's U.K. 's Telegraph. An interesting read, for sure.

Here is the link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9030384/Costa-Concordia-what-made-the-captain-panic.html

 

 

Interesting. Thanks for the link.

 

I wonder: Don't they test and evaluate someone for how they respond under extreme stress before they hand him a half-billion dollar ship and place the lives of 6000 people in his hands?

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glrounds

glrounds

Posted
Posted
Yes, I do know that Concordia is not a Vista-class ship. As far as propulsion goes, it's not too different.... instead of power going from the two main power buses to azipods, it goes to inboard motors. For Concordia I'd expect the motors to draw somewhere between 18MW and 22MW each.

 

I'd be surprised if power to the bow thrusters is significantly different on Concordia to Vista-class ships. Three bow thrusters on each; not really enough power on a Vista ship but it'll do. (I'd really like 8MW to 10MW of bow thrust). Anyway - the bow thrusters on a Vista ship are 3x 1.8MW, variable pitch, probably the same on Concordia. They can be run at low power; set zero thrust, the pitch is small and they don't draw much power. But push the bow thruster lever left or right... and you will be demanding 5MW. Too much for a little genny.

 

Edited to add - if the Captain did use the little genny to power the bow thrusters to turn the ship so she'd ground... then bloody well done. Alas, I don't think he did....

 

VP

 

Appreciate your correction. I was going to point out the Vista class error also, but you covered it well. Carnival has a SPIRIT class (4 ships) identical hull-wise to HAL's VISTA class. I have no idea what the captain DID or DID NOT do. I was just repeating what some earlier "marine authorities" surmised when they looked at the GPS track and saw the CONCORDIA going straight out to sea supposedly dead in the water and then suddenly the bow coming around and it ended up in shallow water obviously pushed by the winds (or swells, if that was a possibility), thank goodness. :)

 

Maybe it was the wind that swung the ship around so it was port side dead on to the wind. I was just repeating what some of these experts listed as a possibility. As well as dropping the forward anchor.

 

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CruisersNC

CruisersNC

Posted
Posted
Came across this.

 

Interesting grafix postulating both positive and negative recovery possibilities.

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/17/graphic-salvaging-the-costa-concordia-cruise-liner/

 

Take your pick.

 

 

 

Wow....lets hope that everything doesn't go wrong! It would be amazing to be able to watch it being refloated on the giglio webcam. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

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CruisersNC

CruisersNC

Posted
Posted
Interesting. Thanks for the link.

 

I wonder: Don't they test and evaluate someone for how they respond under extreme stress before they hand him a half-billion dollar ship and place the lives of 6000 people in his hands?

 

 

Seems like a fair question. I'm picturing the first astronauts going through the stress tests in the movie "The Right Stuff"...lol. I wonder if there is anything done to try and determine a persons tendency to panic.

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Davyjonesrugrat

Davyjonesrugrat

Posted
Posted
Wow....lets hope that everything doesn't go wrong! It would be amazing to be able to watch it being refloated on the giglio webcam. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
Im sorry but this article is well out of date, its dated the 17th Jan 2012.

 

The vessel is slowly being damaged by the fact that its lying on rocks on its starboard side and cracks are now appearing on that side. This is likely to hamper any future salvage attempts greatly.

 

Has our 'salvage' contact put forward any further information?

 

rgds

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Davyjonesrugrat

Davyjonesrugrat

Posted
Posted
Yes, I do know that Concordia is not a Vista-class ship. As far as propulsion goes, it's not too different.... instead of power going from the two main power buses to azipods, it goes to inboard motors. VP
You are joking arent you? There is a total difference between azimuth and standard propulsion. With Azi's you dont need rudders and the turning cycle is greatly improved upon standard propulsion.

 

The members on here would like to know what happened to the Costa concordia and it does little to get to the facts when you cloud it with 'mis-information whilst trying to score or make snide remarks about others.

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Vampire Parrot

Vampire Parrot

Posted
Posted
You are joking arent you? There is a total difference between azimuth and standard propulsion. With Azi's you dont need rudders and the turning cycle is greatly improved upon standard propulsion.

 

I was referring to driving the propellers. In each case they are driven by electric motors - inboard on most ships, in the azipod on Vista class ships. That doesn't affect the points I made about powering those motors.

 

I'm totally aware that ships with azipods don't have rudders and have very tight turning circles. Go hard aport on the Zuiderdam at 21 knots and in one minutes 20 seconds she'll have altered course by 90 degrees. Azipods have disadvantages; if they are run at less than 30rpm, the Chief Engineer will not be happy.

 

VP

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