When Vegetarian food isnt Vegetarian!

[kevinyork]

Been with P&O several times and generally my partner who is a Veggie has found they offer a reasonable choice for Veggies. A couple of recurring issues have been that deserts anywhere on board are never labelled as suitable for Vegetarians so this always requires you to ask and hopefully get the right answer. Also, for instance, they offer a Veggie burger at the deck grill but then go and handle it with the same implements and hands that they have been handling meat products with. They have veggie options that include Parmessan but Parmessan cannot be vegetarian, only a hard cheese alternative can be which should not be called Parmessan. Ok, small niggly things but livable.

 

However what happended this week has shocked us. I was looking at the Verona restaurant menu online for Azura since we are on her in two weeks. It offers a four cheese pizza with a V symbol showing it is suitable for Veggies. However, it includes a couple of cheeses I have never seen in Vegetarian format so I sent off an enquiry to P&O.

 

I received a response from the dietary department to be told that that Pizza uses cheese with animal rennet so isnt suitable for Vegetarians! So why is there a V next to it? The response offers no apology nor does it say the menu will be amended.

 

This is just one menu option out of dozens on board with V symbols. Do we have to check on all of them in advance since we cannot trust P&O? Its knocked my partners confidence in P&Os ability to accomodate dietary requirements snd concerned that other Veggie options may not be what they seem.

 

My partner chooses to be Vegetarian but many do so out of religious, dietary or moral reasons. How many have chosen this Vegetarian option without knowing they are eating a product that contains animal extracts? If their attitude to

Vegetarian menu options extends to other dietary requirements, how does this affect those with nut allergies, halal or kosher requirements?

 

Its even more dissapointing given that many of the chefs onboard are vegetarians who should understand the do's and dont's.

[Bobbyjean]

I wonder what country's law P&O operates under. According to EU and UK law, it is illegal to use misleading labelling, which is certainly the case here. They might like to get in touch with their legal department and sort this out before someone sues them!

 

They assume only a small minority of passengers will be vegetarian and are catering to the majority - thinking who cares if we upset a couple of them, the rest are happy. But they are breaking the law if what you say is true (and you have written evidence it appears!!!).

 

The easy option would be to take the "V"s off the menu entirely. They are not required by law to state whether a dish is suitable for vegetarians, vegans etc. However, they are advised to do so as good practice.

[Thejuggler]

You need to understand that a "V" means no meat is used as a main constituent of a meal, it does not mean all ingredients comprising the meal are free from products derived from animals. This would be tending towards a vegan diet.

 

If you are requesting vegetarian cheese you should also be requesting vegetarian beer and wine. What about health and beauty products (toothpaste for example) and the 1001 other products which contain animal products, including the plates you eat your food off?

[Nigella]

You need to understand that a "V" means no meat is used as a main constituent of a meal, it does not mean all ingredients comprising the meal are free from products derived from animals. This would be tending towards a vegan diet.

 

 

 

?

 

That is absolutely incorrect at least with regard to any company that has had Vegetarian Society training as P & O has.

 

Vegetarians generally avoid animal rennet, which ia contained in all non vegetarian cheeses. A vegetarian reasonably expects a cheese meal like pizza, which is marked with a 'v' on the menu to contain non animal rennet cheese.

[kevinyork]

You need to understand that a "V" means no meat is used as a main constituent of a meal, it does not mean all ingredients comprising the meal are free from products derived from animals. This would be tending towards a vegan diet.

 

If you are requesting vegetarian cheese you should also be requesting vegetarian beer and wine. What about health and beauty products (toothpaste for example) and the 1001 other products which contain animal products, including the plates you eat your food off?

 

What a load of twaddle. Where do you get your information from? A 'V' on a menu means that dish is meat free. i.e. all ingredients in that dish are free from meat or animal derivatives. Vegans dont eat dairy products as well as not eating meat. Im not discussing Vegan, only Vegetarian which 10% of the UK population are.

[Thejuggler]

There is no legal definition of the term 'vegetarian' and there are only guidelines on labelling which apply to EU countries. The ship isn't an EU territory so there's a question mark over whether these apply.

 

The only V which assures there is no meat or meat derived products in a dish is the Vegetarian Society tick, without this there is a a possibility of animal products being in a meal.

 

Sorry to disappoint, but this is how it is.

 

Any comment on the alcohol issues?

[kevinyork]

There is no legal definition of the term 'vegetarian' and there are only guidelines on labelling which apply to EU countries. The ship isn't an EU territory so there's a question mark over whether these apply.

 

The only V which assures there is no meat or meat derived products in a dish is the Vegetarian Society tick, without this there is a a possibility of animal products being in a meal.

 

Sorry to disappoint, but this is how it is.

 

Any comment on the alcohol issues?

 

This is just getting silly now. P&O state that the V symbol they use means 'suitable for vegetarians', a vegetarian is one who does not eat meat or animal derivatives. The 'outside the EU territory' aspect is irrelevant since P&O state that the V means meat free and use the symbol to identify such dishes. Nowhere is a V used on a menu to indicate it is not a meat product but just might contain meat or animal derivatives. Irrespective of EU guidelines etc the V symbol is used almost everywhere in the western world to indicate the absence of meat products in a dish. The Vegetarian society tick goes one further as it shows the dish is approved by the Vegetarian Society.

 

I have no interest in the alcohol issue since my Veggie partner doesnt drink alcohol.

[Bobbyjean]

Alcohol is a different matter as it is all branded or specifically named. Vegetarians and vegans will already know that most spirits are fine and that they can have XX wine and specific brands of cider. It will be the same on the ship as from their local pub - they do not produce them on the ship.

 

However, food is completely different as it is prepared on board and it's impossible to tell what has meat in it unless we are told so with information such as the "V".

 

Putting a V next to a pizza with animal rennet in it is simply misleading and incorrect. They really need to fix this - out of respect for their passengers at least, even if they are not required to follow the law.

[kevinyork]

Final point on this, here is the link to the menu for the Verona restaurant

 

https://ask.pocruises.com/resources/carnivaluk/fleet/verona_example.pdf

 

The pizza in question is shown as the second pizza down with a V to the side. To the bottom of the menu it states 'V- denotes vegetarian choice'. Not sure how this can be anything other than misleading and incorrect.

 

Looking at that menu again has now got me worried about the 'Torta Gorgonzola E Aspergi' on that menu as this has a V but to my knowledge there isnt a single Gorgonzola that is suitable for Vegetarians.

[Britchic4]

The trouble here may be the definition of vegetarian. To many in the UK, which has a high proportion of vegetarians compared to other countries and a good 20 years' development of the cuisine, it may mean not eating some cheese etc. To others, it means not eating meat or fish but happily eating Muller Lights or something which contains gelatine, to others it means not eating meat but eating some fish, to others still, particularly in countries in the Middle East, Mexico etc it means not eating big lumps of meat but being served rice/beans with little bits of meat chopped up.

I was veggie for 18 years so I do sympathise, but I also know very well that when eating out I took a chance. Now that I run my own catering business, I know just how hard it is to make things 'completely' vegetarian down to the oil it's cooked in and the knives it's cut with, and I know that most places simply aren't going to do it to that extent.

[Britchic4]

They may use the cheese suggested here (on the other hand, they may not!)

http://www.vegetarianliving.co.uk/recipes.php?do=view&recipe=9

 

Final point on this, here is the link to the menu for the Verona restaurant

 

https://ask.pocruises.com/resources/carnivaluk/fleet/verona_example.pdf

 

The pizza in question is shown as the second pizza down with a V to the side. To the bottom of the menu it states 'V- denotes vegetarian choice'. Not sure how this can be anything other than misleading and incorrect.

 

Looking at that menu again has now got me worried about the 'Torta Gorgonzola E Aspergi' on that menu as this has a V but to my knowledge there isnt a single Gorgonzola that is suitable for Vegetarians.

[littlesteelo]

I think P&O's definition of vegetarian is simply 'meat free', as is probably the definition of a lot of people, who don't think about animal derivatives. I can see your point about vegetarian cheese, and it would be simple enough for them to use it.

 

However, it is impractical for them to cover every single little thing. For example, to actually ensure that the veggie burgers at the grill did not touch the meat burgers, they would need to clean down everything when someone ordered one. Considering how busy the poolside grill is, that simply won't happen.

[Britchic4]

That's absolutely true, and that's a grill that you can actually see. I hope that nobody is assuming that any food prepared in a restaurant that isn't a vegetarian restaurant is going to be segregated to that extent because it really isn't. For example, if you go to a sandwich bar, you'll see someone wipe the knife down after cutting the sandwich down but it won't be washed, there simply isn't time. If there are two knives, I can guarantee the 'veggie' one will have cut a meat-filled sandwich by mistake at some point when they are really busy. If you are eating something deep-fried it's almost certain the oil will have been used to fry something containing meat beforehand. The list goes on.

As far as what constitutes a vegetarian, I considered myself vegetarian for 18 years but I didn't take it so far as to not eat muller lights, or wine etc. My Grandma didn't eat muller lights, but allowed herself turkey on christmas day! There are many different ideas as to what constitutes a vegetarian.

OP this isn't meant to make your complaint trivial, I understand your girlfriend's position, but unfortunately as the 'suitable for vegetarians' label has no legal definition, and not even an accepted definition among the greater population, I don't think a complaint will be successful.

 

I think P&O's definition of vegetarian is simply 'meat free', as is probably the definition of a lot of people, who don't think about animal derivatives. I can see your point about vegetarian cheese, and it would be simple enough for them to use it.

 

However, it is impractical for them to cover every single little thing. For example, to actually ensure that the veggie burgers at the grill did not touch the meat burgers, they would need to clean down everything when someone ordered one. Considering how busy the poolside grill is, that simply won't happen.