Another child molestation on Disney Dream

[Ex techie]

Do you know what the require now and what they could do, specifically, to improve that. Or are you just assuming?

 

Also, servers work a minimum of 84 hours a week. I doubt they spend that much time together in their cabin when they are not sleeping! I'd be exhausted!

 

Just a general background check.

A standard check that is accepted by DCL in the UK is just £26. And enhanced check is £44.

 

Standard CRB:

 

Spent and Unspent Convictions, Cautions, Reprimands and Final Warnings. So your whole criminal record.

 

Enhanced CRB:

 

Same as above + additional relevent information held on you by the police, disclosed at the discretion of your local police force's Chief Constable's discretion. That includes police intelligence on you (mental health issues, if they know you're a drug user, if you reside with a convicted paedophile, etc) and if you were ever arrested or charged or summoned to court, but no further action was taken.

 

an 84 hour working week is only 12 hours a day averaged out. And they will be working similar schedules, hence why they are birthed together.

 

ex techie

Edited April 11, 2014 by Ex techie

[DahliaRW]

Just a general background check.

A standard check that is accepted by DCL in the UK is just £26. And enhanced check is £44.

 

Standard CRB:

 

Spent and Unspent Convictions, Cautions, Reprimands and Final Warnings. So your whole criminal record.

 

Enhanced CRB:

 

Same as above + additional relevent information held on you by the police, disclosed at the discretion of your local police force's Chief Constable's discretion. That includes police intelligence on you (mental health issues, if they know you're a drug user, if you reside with a convicted paedophile, etc) and if you were ever arrested or charged or summoned to court, but no further action was taken.

 

an 84 hour working week is only 12 hours a day averaged out. And they will be working similar schedules, hence why they are birthed together.

 

ex techie

 

For comparison, I'm a certified teacher here in the US. To get my certificate, I had to have a background check (probably equivalent to the cheaper UK one) and be fingerprinted. In any other job I've had working with children (daycare assistant, camp counselor, volunteering in my child's classroom) I just had to have the quick background check. In all positions we were told to try to avoid being alone in a private/isolated setting with one child. But it does happen (and when it did we had to tell our superiors to cover our rears). My point is, for the most part, the jobs I've had here where I was actually working with children probably were about the same amount of background checking as any position with DCL which doesn't require working directly with children. (The only difference would be the country running the check). Just food for thought.

Edited April 11, 2014 by DahliaRW

[Ex techie]

For comparison, I'm a certified teacher here in the US. To get my certificate, I had to have a background check (probably equivalent to the cheaper UK one) and be fingerprinted. In any other job I've had working with children (daycare assistant, camp counselor, volunteering in my child's classroom) I just had to have the quick background check. In all positions we were told to try to avoid being alone in a private/isolated setting with one child. But it does happen (and when it did we had to tell our superiors to cover our rears). My point is, for the most part, the jobs I've had here where I was actually working with children probably were about the same amount of background checking as any position with DCL which doesn't require working directly with children. (The only difference would be the country running the check). Just food for thought.

 

Dahlia,

Do you think the background checks that you undertook were sufficient enough to approve you and your collegues to work with children?

Or could or should the institution have asked for a more thorough one?

 

As these molestations appear to be committed by crew members that do not have direct contact with children, but be around them, shouldn't DCL ask for a higher level of inspection into a CM's background before employing them?

 

ex techie

[DahliaRW]

Dahlia,

Do you think the background checks that you undertook were sufficient enough to approve you and your collegues to work with children?

Or could or should the institution have asked for a more thorough one?

 

As these molestations appear to be committed by crew members that do not have direct contact with children, but be around them, shouldn't DCL ask for a higher level of inspection into a CM's background before employing them?

 

ex techie

 

Yes, I do. I don't think they can do anything more extensive in the states without probable cause.

 

I think it would be ridiculous to subject someone who mops the deck of a cruise boat to the same standards of background checks that a teacher does, since a teacher has much more extensive access to children. Kids club CMs, sure. DCL does the same checks most others in the cruise industry do, and probably more than the guy working behind the counter at Chuck E Cheese gets (and he probably sees just as many children).

[Ex techie]

Yes, I do. I don't think they can do anything more extensive in the states without probable cause.

 

I think it would be ridiculous to subject someone who mops the deck of a cruise boat to the same standards of background checks that a teacher does, since a teacher has much more extensive access to children. Kids club CMs, sure. DCL does the same checks most others in the cruise industry do, and probably more than the guy working behind the counter at Chuck E Cheese gets (and he probably sees just as many children).

 

Ummm, they are not in the States. It is a foreign flagged vessel.

Registered in the Bahamas in Nassau.

And the parent company is registered in the UK.

Does the male guy that mops the bathrooms on deck 9 have more access to children in a vulnerable space than say a teacher?

How about the server who says he has an ice-cream machine behind this door?

 

And the Chuck E Cheese analogy is absolutely ridiculous.

He is behind a counter so how could he molest a child?

 

ex techie

Edited April 12, 2014 by Ex techie

[DahliaRW]

Ummm, they are not in the States. It is a foreign flagged vessel.

Registered in the Bahamas in Nassau.

And the parent company is registered in the UK.

Does the male guy that mops the bathrooms on deck 9 have more access to children in a vulnerable space than say a teacher?

How about the server who says he has an ice-cream machine behind this door?

 

And the Chuck E Cheese analogy is absolutely ridiculous.

He is behind a counter so how could he molest a child?

 

ex techie

 

There are bathrooms in restaurants. There have been cases of employees and non-employees molesting children in public restrooms, including one inside a chuck e cheese.

[Ex techie]

There are bathrooms in restaurants. There have been cases of employees and non-employees molesting children in public restrooms, including one inside a chuck e cheese.

 

You obviously cannot do a thorough background check on all of your customers, you can however do one on the people you employ... ;)

 

ex techie

 

And BTW, how often should one have to submit a background check?

I did 4 contracts over 2 years, and were only asked to submit a CRB check before my first contract?

Edited April 12, 2014 by Ex techie

[DahliaRW]

You obviously cannot do a thorough background check on all of your customers, you can however do one on the people you employ... ;)

 

ex techie

 

Like I said, there are cases of EMPLOYEES as well, here in the states, who have molested children in the bathroom where they work.

 

We're getting way off topic, though. My point was just that those employees, on land, have less of a background check.

 

The cruise line employees background checks seem to be similar to background checks here in the states of those who work with children, though probably not as extensive as being finger printed. Though how thorough each country maintains lists of crimes and prosecutes them can vary. If DCL is following the industry standard for background checks of employees, I wouldn't blame them for 2 people out of how many thousands of people they have employed over the years slipping through the cracks. In this case, the person has been identified and there is no mention of past criminal issues, probably because there are none, so even a more in depth background check, if even possible, would not have prevented this. Obviously this is against the standards DCL sets (the rule is that CMs can have employment terminated for being alone with a child anywhere on the ship), but DCL can't force people to not violate the standards, but they can act appropriately when they do. And they did in this case.

[Ex techie]

Like I said, there are cases of EMPLOYEES as well, here in the states, who have molested children in the bathroom where they work.

 

We're getting way off topic, though. My point was just that those employees, on land, have less of a background check.

 

The cruise line employees background checks seem to be similar to background checks here in the states of those who work with children, though probably not as extensive as being finger printed. Though how thorough each country maintains lists of crimes and prosecutes them can vary. If DCL is following the industry standard for background checks of employees, I wouldn't blame them for 2 people out of how many thousands of people they have employed over the years slipping through the cracks. In this case, the person has been identified and there is no mention of past criminal issues, probably because there are none, so even a more in depth background check, if even possible, would not have prevented this. Obviously this is against the standards DCL sets (the rule is that CMs can have employment terminated for being alone with a child anywhere on the ship), but DCL can't force people to not violate the standards, but they can act appropriately when they do. And they did in this case.

 

So how was your point of employees on land relevant to the thread at all?

 

DCL may follow the industry standard, but they charge a premium and set themselves on a higher pedestal than the others in regard to child safety, and lead the industry now as the only cruise line with life guards aboard to protect those same children.

 

I agree that DCL cannot force their employees to follow the law or be good people, but they can at least take EVERY measure to ensure they are hiring good people, not just follow the industry standard and take the minimum steps.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

And BTW, how often should one have to submit a background check?

I did 4 contracts over 2 years, and were only asked to submit a CRB check before my first contract?

 

So how often as you chose to quote only the first part of my post above but not quote or reply to this part?

 

ex techie

Edited April 12, 2014 by Ex techie

[chengkp75]

A far more telling question about background checks for foreign nationals: is touching or having sex with a 13 year old girl even a crime in Indonesia? I would treat any background check from an underdeveloped country with a huge grain of salt.

[hehny]

This is a sad reminder that we need to teach our kids to be vigilant. I've seen too many parents think, "it's Disney" and let their kids run wild because it's a cruise ship. I'm not commenting on the specific situation, rather the perception that cruise ships are "safer" than the outside world.

[aztec49Y]

Background checks ... No background checks...blah blah blah. The bottom line is don't leave your 13 year old daughter alone in a room where you know strangers have a key. Where were the parents?

[DahliaRW]

A far more telling question about background checks for foreign nationals: is touching or having sex with a 13 year old girl even a crime in Indonesia? I would treat any background check from an underdeveloped country with a huge grain of salt.

 

It is: http://www.childsafe-international.org/InternationalLaws.asp#Indo

 

But, that doesn't mean it's enforced there.

 

I'm guessing if this guy had anything in his background it would have come out in the news by now. Usually when something like this happens if there was a prior arrest or charge it is found pretty easily and then you get the articles about "how could he have been hired with this background" etc. This does not seem to be the case here, so I'm guessing a background check would have turned up absolutely nothing.

 

This is the hiring agency for Indonesia: http://www.ratuoceaniaraya.com/home.html

 

If you dig around "no criminal record" is one of the requirements.

 

Background checks ... No background checks...blah blah blah. The bottom line is don't leave your 13 year old daughter alone in a room where you know strangers have a key. Where were the parents?

 

Was it her own room? What I read was "lured into a stateroom", but not which one it was.

[DahliaRW]

Just read another article, it was not her state room, it was one that was not occupied on that cruise.

 

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[Ex techie]

A far more telling question about background checks for foreign nationals: is touching or having sex with a 13 year old girl even a crime in Indonesia? I would treat any background check from an underdeveloped country with a huge grain of salt.

 

Not that Wikipedia should be used as a completely trusted source of information, but,

Indonesia[edit]

In Indonesia the national age of consent for heterosexual sexual activity is 19 years for males and 16 years for females.[29] The age of consent for homosexuals is 18. In 2002, the Indonesian Government gave Aceh province the right to introduce Islamic sharia, albeit only to Muslim residents. Fifty two regions have since enacted sharia law from the Qur'an, which criminalizes homosexuality.[citation needed]

 

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

As CC doesn't allow or have a polling system, anyone that has contributed to this thread, do you think that a basic criminal background check that is required by DCL before being considered to be an appropriate crew member aboard is adequate or should a more detailed check be undertaken, and how often should that CBC be taken in your opinion?

 

Yes/No.

 

After each contract

After 12 months

After 2 years

After 5 years

After 10 years

 

Do you think that an enhanced CBC for all ship wide personal should be the normal process or just those that work directly and specifically with children?

 

ex techie

[DahliaRW]

Basic background check for everyone and probably a more thorough one (if possible) for those who work in the kids clubs is sufficient (which is, what I assume, they do - since those in the kids clubs are usually from countries with legal systems similar to the US).

 

I don't know how often. It would make sense after an extended leave.

[Loonbeam]

Again, you folks are REALLY overstating the value of background checks as defensive tools. They are not, they are there simply to provide an affirmative defense against lawsuits by showing some level of diligence. The only people they will keep from being employed is someone who has a prior conviction for a sexual crime. Period. A full investigative check would be more probative, but they typically run about $15,000 per person, so not practical.

 

The correct way to avoid issues like this is to set one rule. NO staff member shall ever be alone with a minor passenger. Ever. Set it, enforce it and you will keep incidents like this to a minimum. It's the only thing that works.

[moki'smommy]

Again, you folks are REALLY overstating the value of background checks as defensive tools. They are not, they are there simply to provide an affirmative defense against lawsuits by showing some level of diligence. The only people they will keep from being employed is someone who has a prior conviction for a sexual crime. Period. A full investigative check would be more probative, but they typically run about $15,000 per person, so not practical.

 

The correct way to avoid issues like this is to set one rule. NO staff member shall ever be alone with a minor passenger. Ever. Set it, enforce it and you will keep incidents like this to a minimum. It's the only thing that works.

 

Yup! And enforcement means that any violation is cause for immediate termination. DCL HAS strict conduct rules...the question is enforcement.

 

We once cruised on a date that a friend was a stage performer. Note--this is not someone we met on board, but someone we knew in advance. We sent a note to him thru GS, and got no response. We later were able to confirm that he got our note and as required, turned it over to his supervisor who denied him permission to answer (all we did was give our table number and say that we'd love to have him join us after the late show IF ALLOWED). We later saw him by the pool. I said that we didn't want him to get into any trouble for talking with us and we'd see him after his contract. He said no problem at all...he had fully dressed before coming over to us and was standing the required 6 feet away and in a totally public place. Thanked us for coming and cheering his parts in the show and was sorry about the rules, etc.

 

SO, from his response, there are rules. I question the enforcement.

[DahliaRW]

DCL already has a rule that no CM can be alone with a minor. They are also, in general, not allowed to "hang out" in guest areas (the exception being that officers can eat in the restaurants at certain times). So DCL already had that rule, they enforced it here by immediately terminating this man.

[MizDaisy]

I fall into the "don't let your kids out of your sight" category. Checked into the kids' clubs, yes, walking the ship alone under the age of 14 or 15, no way.

 

Way too many parents are of the "Disney is safe" mindset, and I've seen kids as young as 5 walking alone to their stateroom with ice cream....meaning they'd been all the way to the pool deck alone!

 

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[MizDaisy]

Yup! And enforcement means that any violation is cause for immediate termination. DCL HAS strict conduct rules...the question is enforcement.

 

We once cruised on a date that a friend was a stage performer. Note--this is not someone we met on board' date=' but someone we knew in advance. We sent a note to him thru GS, and got no response. We later were able to confirm that he got our note and as required, turned it over to his supervisor who denied him permission to answer (all we did was give our table number and say that we'd love to have him join us after the late show IF ALLOWED). We later saw him by the pool. I said that we didn't want him to get into any trouble for talking with us and we'd see him after his contract. He said no problem at all...he had fully dressed before coming over to us and was standing the required 6 feet away and in a totally public place. Thanked us for coming and cheering his parts in the show and was sorry about the rules, etc.

 

SO, from his response, there are rules. I question the enforcement.[/quote']

 

I had no idea about a "6 foot" rule. We've been extremely close and chummy with many CM's over the years....arms around each other talking, hugging and even a friendly kiss or two. :confused:

 

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[Tonka's Skipper]

I fall into the "don't let your kids out of your sight" category. Checked into the kids' clubs, yes, walking the ship alone under the age of 14 or 15, no way.

 

Way too many parents are of the "Disney is safe" mindset, and I've seen kids as young as 5 walking alone to their stateroom with ice cream....meaning they'd been all the way to the pool deck alone!

 

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Totally in agreement!

 

I don't understand why anyone would not be as careful on any cruise ship or line as they would in the local Mall or any venue for that matter.

 

I am hoping this guy does time in the US as a child molester is on the bottom in prison life. Hopefully he is not just sent back home.:mad:

 

AKK

[jimdalva]

Background checks ... No background checks...blah blah blah. The bottom line is don't leave your 13 year old daughter alone in a room where you know strangers have a key. Where were the parents?

 

Yeah what he said!