Carnival burials at sea

[cantthinkofanythingfun]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/cruiselog/2015/06/24/carnival-cruise-line-ashes-burials-at-sea/29209833/

 

I saw this and thought it may interest some of you.

 

I'm a funeral director and I may have found a way to write my cruises off on my taxes, or maybe I can get a job with Carnival. (you have to have a sense of humor in this business)

[fuddrules]

They need to somehow incorporate this into the Loyalty program.

[cantthinkofanythingfun]

In actuality, this could be a big revenue stream for Carnival. Perhaps one day equaling weddings. People don't want to go to a funeral home anymore, and a memorial service is a celebration of life. I think people would much rather have that celebration on a cruise ship. It's always tricky to market a service like that for a company that focuses on "fun", but hotels have started to get in on the act.

[fuddrules]

In actuality, this could be a big revenue stream for Carnival. Perhaps one day equaling weddings. People don't want to go to a funeral home anymore, and a memorial service is a celebration of life. I think people would much rather have that celebration on a cruise ship. It's always tricky to market a service like that for a company that focuses on "fun", but hotels have started to get in on the act.

 

Agreed.

 

But, that would then have more people board before the P&D. Drama time!

 

I can hear it now in the terminal, "If Uncle Fester wouldn't have died, I'd already have my plate at the buffet."

Edited July 1, 2015 by fuddrules

[AngAndBoys]

Agreed.

 

But, that would then have more people board before the P&D. Drama time!

 

I can hear it now in the terminal, "If Uncle Fester wouldn't have died, I'd already have my plate at the buffet."

 

:D

 

:p

[eponym]

In actuality, this could be a big revenue stream for Carnival. Perhaps one day equaling weddings. People don't want to go to a funeral home anymore, and a memorial service is a celebration of life. I think people would much rather have that celebration on a cruise ship. It's always tricky to market a service like that for a company that focuses on "fun", but hotels have started to get in on the act.

 

We saw your post on John Heald's FB page today suggesting they monetize and exploit this on board their vacation fun ships.

 

In the meantime, Carnival has been very gracious in facilitating ash scattering memorial services requested by families.

 

Perhaps a new cruise line can be born of such specialization and celebration.

Edited July 1, 2015 by eponym

[cantthinkofanythingfun]

We saw your post on John Heald's FB page today suggesting they monetize and exploit this on board their vacation fun ships.

 

In the meantime, Carnival has been very gracious in facilitating ash scattering memorial services requested by families.

 

Perhaps a new cruise line can be born of such specialization and celebration.

 

 

 

My suggestion was that they make the service more widely known and coordinated. Yes, that would include booking fees for those that wish to attend any type of coordinated service. It could actually be a very appealing option for families that are looking to do something different than a traditional service at a funeral home or church. I have dedicated my career to try and make funerals more meaningful for families. Whenever I hear or think of a new idea that could do that, it interests me.

[eponym]

My suggestion was that they make the service more widely known and coordinated. Yes, that would include booking fees for those that wish to attend any type of coordinated service. It could actually be a very appealing option for families that are looking to do something different than a traditional service at a funeral home or church. I have dedicated my career to try and make funerals more meaningful for families. Whenever I hear or think of a new idea that could do that, it interests me.

 

OK. You think they should increase the number of ship board funerals and memorials and proactively market the services to one day equal wedding events.

 

In lieu of having deceased human bodies transferred to, prepared, made view-able, and memorial and burial services conducted in a traditional funeral home that Carnival vacation ships should offer those services? I can't get past the deceased human body transfers to the ship on embark day, but maybe that's just me.

 

So, please outline for us what you mean.

[cantthinkofanythingfun]

OK. You think they should increase the number of ship board funerals and memorials and proactively market the services to one day equal wedding events.

 

In lieu of having deceased human bodies transferred to, prepared, made view-able, and memorial and burial services conducted in a traditional funeral home that Carnival vacation ships should offer those services? I can't get past the deceased human body transfers to the ship on embark day, but maybe that's just me.

 

So, please outline for us what you mean.

 

This would have nothing to do with viewing bodies or burial. An actual burial at sea requires quite a bit of paperwork and is typically done by the Navy. This is strictly for cremation. If you wish to have some sort of viewing of the body that would have to be done beforehand at a funeral home. Most people would just contract the funeral home to perform a cremation. Many people choose to have their "ashes" scattered at sea. Most people also like to have some sort of memorial service as well. Now there are laws with scattering at sea. Typically it has to be done so many miles from shore. Many people are unaware of these laws, or choose to ignore them, and scatter at the beach or from a small boat right off shore. I would not be surprised if many people did not think to contact Carnival ahead of time, and just scattered on their own from the ship when nobody was looking. According to the article, four or five families a year actually contact Carnival about doing this, and they actually have a protocol for it. I think if this was more well known, many more families would be interested in it. I have been a funeral director for 20 years and I was shocked (in a good way) to read they did this in the article.

 

Of course Carnival, being a vacation company, doesn't want to advertise this. They may put it in a back corner of their website under FAQ. Carnival could actually partner with funeral homes like they do TAs to promote this service. In a time where more and more families are opting for cremation, a lower cost service, funeral homes are struggling to make revenues they once had. This partnership would help both companies. Carnival could then have trained "celebration of life" coordinators that would make the accommodations and plan a memorial service and scattering ceremony on board. Just like they do for weddings. These memorial services would not necessarily be somber occasions. Like I said, people are now looking for more of a celebration. They want more attractive and upbeat facilities. They want food and beverage available. Many funeral homes offer these services, but people don't want to go to a funeral home. It's creepy to many people. Many people are choosing to use hotels, reception halls, and country clubs for these services.

 

This forum is proof that many people have a love of cruising, maybe an obsession in some cases. People also love the sea. I think many people would love to take one "last cruise" with their friends and family and have their ashes scattered with dignity.

 

Sea scattering services do exist, and they do have a fee. Some are done by plane, and the family gets a certificate of the coordinates where it was done. There is actually a company that mixes the ashes with concrete and makes reef balls out of them to create a reef. Again, the family gets a certificate with coordinates. These services can be expensive and the family doesn't get to be there for it.

[MickCruiser]

I really don't think any service would not include the dumping of ashes into the sea...and the ashes are carried onto the ship.

 

I see no problem with it provided it's done privately. Sorry for being a tad selfish but it is my holiday as well. :-)

 

But as noted above...it's hard to market anyway...but for the JH post, the article, this thread and word of mouth. You will not see any YouTube videos showing this stuff on the CCL channel. ;-)

 

 

- JPO

Edited July 1, 2015 by MickCruiser

[eponym]

This would have nothing to do with viewing bodies or burial. An actual burial at sea requires quite a bit of paperwork and is typically done by the Navy. This is strictly for cremation. If you wish to have some sort of viewing of the body that would have to be done beforehand at a funeral home. Most people would just contract the funeral home to perform a cremation. Many people choose to have their "ashes" scattered at sea. Most people also like to have some sort of memorial service as well. Now there are laws with scattering at sea. Typically it has to be done so many miles from shore. Many people are unaware of these laws, or choose to ignore them, and scatter at the beach or from a small boat right off shore. I would not be surprised if many people did not think to contact Carnival ahead of time, and just scattered on their own from the ship when nobody was looking. According to the article, four or five families a year actually contact Carnival about doing this, and they actually have a protocol for it. I think if this was more well known, many more families would be interested in it. I have been a funeral director for 20 years and I was shocked (in a good way) to read they did this in the article.

 

Of course Carnival, being a vacation company, doesn't want to advertise this. They may put it in a back corner of their website under FAQ. Carnival could actually partner with funeral homes like they do TAs to promote this service. In a time where more and more families are opting for cremation, a lower cost service, funeral homes are struggling to make revenues they once had. This partnership would help both companies. Carnival could then have trained "celebration of life" coordinators that would make the accommodations and plan a memorial service and scattering ceremony on board. Just like they do for weddings. These memorial services would not necessarily be somber occasions. Like I said, people are now looking for more of a celebration. They want more attractive and upbeat facilities. They want food and beverage available. Many funeral homes offer these services, but people don't want to go to a funeral home. It's creepy to many people. Many people are choosing to use hotels, reception halls, and country clubs for these services.

 

This forum is proof that many people have a love of cruising, maybe an obsession in some cases. People also love the sea. I think many people would love to take one "last cruise" with their friends and family and have their ashes scattered with dignity.

 

Sea scattering services do exist, and they do have a fee. Some are done by plane, and the family gets a certificate of the coordinates where it was done. There is actually a company that mixes the ashes with concrete and makes reef balls out of them to create a reef. Again, the family gets a certificate with coordinates. These services can be expensive and the family doesn't get to be there for it.

 

So - after all of the above in reply - what I quickly glean from it is that a family would have the body prepared and buried already or cremated on land. The services (that they already are providing at requests of families) would be in addition to the practical realities of a death in the family, therefore be a duplicate memorial service at some point after burial or cremation, and not be a replacement for the handling and process of the deceased family member.

 

So again you're suggesting advertised memorials at sea, instead of what they kindly do by request now, with ash scatterings using the cruise ships as the platform.

 

Well, of course I only speak for myself and my family but when my father passed away 10 years ago no one in the family (or friends that we are aware of) wanted to duplicate the emotional strains affecting all of us for the loss. 10 years later and we might want to consider having a decade memorial gathering of some kind, possibly at sea, as my dad loved to cruise. But he wasn't cremated and we visit his grave site often.

 

I am sure there is some level of niche for post life, post memorial services or land burials, celebration of life party coordinators at sea. My sense is that we were so overwhelmed at my dad's passing, and had so much to deal with that ALSO booking a cruise 6 months out from his death for 30-40 family and friends to celebrate his death wasn't on the list.

 

The number of funeral homes where we live have decreased while the population has exploded. This accounts for people also making memorial services and funeral services arrangements at alternate places as well.

 

You can have their remains shot into space if so desired. Or the latest one, which I personally like, is have their ashes buried with a new tree seedling planting so their remains are cycled back into organic earth's life. All within legal limits of course.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

Edited July 1, 2015 by eponym

[Gone Cruising]

I would love to have my ashes scattered at sea. Include my family members celebrating my life aboard a Carnival Cruise in the process? I couldn't imagine my passing to go any other way! Heck, I would be willing to start paying a monthly fee to set up all the arrangements to include all costs for my family to take the cruise. Wonder what a cruise would cost 20 plus years away?

 

I want my family to have fun and enjoy the life they had with me. I want them taking a shot at the Tequila bar in honor of me! But that's just me....:p

[eponym]

I would love to have my ashes scattered at sea. Include my family members celebrating my life aboard a Carnival Cruise in the process? I couldn't imagine my passing to go any other way! Heck, I would be willing to start paying a monthly fee to set up all the arrangements to include all costs for my family to take the cruise. Wonder what a cruise would cost 20 plus years away?

 

I want my family to have fun and enjoy the life they had with me. I want them taking a shot at the Tequila bar in honor of me! But that's just me....:p

 

Have them all book a Carnival cruise, get you cremated and send a message to John Heald and he will arrange it.

Edited July 1, 2015 by eponym

[cantthinkofanythingfun]

I know it's not for everyone. Nothing is. There is obviously some sort of market for it. John Heald says he gets about 5 requests a week. It's a hard core cruiser that even knows who John Heald is. How many families do you think would want this service that never heard of John Heald? Unlike burial, with cremation you have time to plan. Funeral directors aren't always the best event planners. I spent two years studying anatomy, pathology, and how ancient Egyptians took care of their dead. Cruise ships plan numerous events every day/365 days a year.

 

I'm not trying to debate or be disrespectful. I just know from my experience that most people are looking for something different then what they were even ten years ago. It's a different generation making these arrangements today. People want experiences, and they want them to be meaningful.

[eponym]

I know it's not for everyone. Nothing is. There is obviously some sort of market for it. John Heald says he gets about 5 requests a week. It's a hard core cruiser that even knows who John Heald is. How many families do you think would want this service that never heard of John Heald? Unlike burial, with cremation you have time to plan. Funeral directors aren't always the best event planners. I spent two years studying anatomy, pathology, and how ancient Egyptians took care of their dead. Cruise ships plan numerous events every day/365 days a year.

 

I'm not trying to debate or be disrespectful. I just know from my experience that most people are looking for something different then what they were even ten years ago. It's a different generation making these arrangements today. People want experiences, and they want them to be meaningful.

 

I am not trying to debate or be disrespectful either. They have about 90,000 people cruising per week, so 5 requests per week are within a level they apparently can support without added expense or disruption to the other 89,995 weekly guests' vacations.

 

It's not a question of knowing John Heald. People would contact Carnival in general and they have a protocol in place already, as you have stated.

 

The areas I have no knowledge in, are the various laws and restrictions governing the transportation, storage and distribution of human remains aboard occupied, commercial transportation vessels in and around various countries/international waters. Also, how much resource needs to be applied by the host companies to oversee open air distributions of human remains safely for all passengers, or the course/schedule impacts that these may require. For example, the ship may have to be diverted into certain areas only, while traveling only at certain speeds and be certified by more than one competent witness. Weddings on the other hand are no where near as legally demanding, they do not pose any passenger health risks, and do not require special sailing/operating itineraries, course or speed adjustments.

 

Again, there probably is some niche to be exploited along this subject. I just don't know what the demands/requirements are from all sides are.

 

For example, unless it was a decorated service member that had fallen, I would not want to know or hear anything about such services going on while on board for my vacation - like a requested moment of silence or other ceremony. And, I would not want our vacation schedule impacted in any way from any special requirements from ceremonies of the dead of others brought aboard.

[SeeBurd]

I think this came about simply because people ask and he tries to accommodate just about everything. There was a time they simply told people no.

 

Sounds intriguing, but I neither wish to be cremated, nor be fish food. In fact, I really don't want to go.

Edited July 1, 2015 by SeeBurd

[chengkp75]

Most of the major cruise lines have been doing this for years. It is a request through guest services, arranged in advance of the cruise. They will arrange a day and time where an officer will meet the family and escort them to normally the after mooring deck. There is generally no ceremony, just whatever the family wants to do. The ashes have to have been brought in a biodegradable urn, and flowers can be arranged, but again, these have to be completely biodegradable (no metal or plastic). They will not announce anything about this to the ship in general, allowing the family to have their private time.

 

For US cruisers, as long as the urn meets government standards, and there are biodegradable urns on the market, transportation only requires a little paperwork, and once onboard, it is a matter for the flag state, not any US regulations regarding transportation or disposal. This happens fairly regularly with long time cruisers.

[skittl1321]

I personally plan to be made into a reef ball when I die.

I mean, if I'm going to have my ashes in the ocean, might as well be a nice home for a displaced fish.

 

I agree that this is a service Carnival could do a better job of making known. People don't always think to ask- and without a doubt, some are just tossing ashes off their balcony, because they don't know there is an approved way to do it.

 

And they can sell cabins to all the family members who want to be there when Aunt Ida is scattered to the sea; even if they don't monetize the actual ceremony (and why not- everything about the funeral industry is $$$$). Not EVERY death is tragic, and MANY funerals are celebrations of life where a cruise would be absolute fun for a family get together. Too many families are so spread out that they only see each other when someone dies; so it would be nice for that "see each other" to be a memorable event.

Edited July 1, 2015 by skittl1321

[mabones]

My DH has always made it known to family & friends that he wants his ashes spread at sea. He wants us to go on a cruise & enjoy ourselves. He wants to be spread in the Gulf Stream so that he will eventually see the WORLD!

[SeeBurd]

My DH has always made it known to family & friends that he wants his ashes spread at sea. He wants us to go on a cruise & enjoy ourselves. He wants to be spread in the Gulf Stream so that he will eventually see the WORLD!

 

I just want to say i got a kick out of your name on this thread.

[edbro]

They are already "fun ships". Not much of a stretch to become the funeral ships.

[eponym]

My DH has always made it known to family & friends that he wants his ashes spread at sea. He wants us to go on a cruise & enjoy ourselves. He wants to be spread in the Gulf Stream so that he will eventually see the WORLD!

 

Now you know what to do to set that up!

[kyrisong1]

You contact Guest Services, Carnival graciously allowed my sister and I to scatter our fathers ashes at sea on the Carnival Glory. They don't charge, but they don't do a service of course, we already had a memorial service years before, we simply wanted to allow my dads wishes to be buried at sea. I don't think we really need to dig into peoples pockets any deeper, leave this lovely service alone!!!

[You Me & the Sea]

You contact Guest Services, Carnival graciously allowed my sister and I to scatter our fathers ashes at sea on the Carnival Glory. They don't charge, but they don't do a service of course, we already had a memorial service years before, we simply wanted to allow my dads wishes to be buried at sea. I don't think we really need to dig into peoples pockets any deeper, leave this lovely service alone!!!

 

Agree! IMHO and as someone recently contemplating this it should remain a complimentary service. My mom passed suddenly in August 2011...3 months after I took her on her first cruise. She loved the ocean and was so looking forward to her next cruise, I always felt she would have wanted to have her ashes scattered at sea. For me, I couldn't bring myself to part with her ashes so soon (or go on another cruise) but now find myself emotionally stronger. I had no idea Carnival allowed this until stumbling across this thread. But I don't think it should be commercialized...or fee-based.

Edited July 1, 2015 by fivearms

[kyrisong1]

Agree! IMHO and as someone recently contemplating this it should remain a complimentary service. My mom passed suddenly in August 2011...2 months after I took her on her first cruise. She loved the ocean and was so looking forward to her next cruise, I always felt she would have wanted to have her ashes scattered at sea. For me, I couldn't bring myself to part with her ashes so soon (or go on another cruise) but now find myself emotionally stronger. I had no idea Carnival allowed this until stumbling across this thread. But I don't think it should be commercialized...or fee-based.

 

Please take the time you need my friend, my father passed in 1998 and we did this in 2006. It was time by then to complete his wishes, but you must heal first!! It was lovely and I am sure they will not try and capitalize on this. There are people that will see money making opportunity everywhere, and then there are those that have hearts, hopefully Carnival continues having a heart.