Chip and pin card?

[MATHA531]

This is a wonderful thread and all new to me. Forgive my ignorance (please!) but how/where would one obtain a "true" PIN & chip card (i.e., one whose PIN cannot be changed) in the U.S.? Thank you!

 

If by "true" chip and pin card, you mean one where pins are preferred as the card verification method at point of sale terminals inhabited by humans, there are only 3 financial institutions in the USA.

 

They are first tech fcu, unfcu and sdfcu. The last one only issues a pin preferred card upon specific request.

 

There are many financial institutions that issue sort of hybrid chip and pin cards. They default to signatures at pos terminals and may request a pin at a kiosk type place. Examples are the cards issued by Barclays Bank USA, USAA, Andrews FCU, Pen FCU.

 

Almost all cards issued by the giant credit card banks such as Chase, Citibank, Capital One make no provision to use pins for purchases. They will issue you a pin in case you wish to use your card in an ATM for a cash advance but will never request a pin for a purchase.

 

It is a bit too simplistic to classify pins as to whether they can be changed on line or not. The more proper classification would be online pins as opposed to offline pins. There are banks that issue offline pins, the kinds being referred to here, that can be changed online. In other cases, your pin is sent in a separate mailing and then you can change it upon either written request or through the phone. It's a very complicated issue.

 

Again there are more important issues for choosing a credit card especially for foreign travel than whether or not it is signature or pin preferred or is signature preferred with pin capabilities. The proper foreign transaction fee which should be 0% but alas many of our near criminal banks gouge people by charging ftf's. The absence of an annual fee should be a factor. The rewards program should be a factors. All of these factors are much more important than the very small chance you might come across a merchant or kiosk willfully violating his or her merchant agreement by not honoring all valid cards, pin or not.

[anthonyy7]

I live in Denmark and I can tell you that you will have a very difficult time finding a place here that accepts anything other than PIN & chip. I have a US card that's not PIN & chip and it's basically useless to me, unless I'm buying something online.

 

While I don't know that it's a requirement, good luck finding someone who knows how to run anything but a PIN & chip card.

 

 

We traveled all over Denmark pre cruise last summer with no cash and used our capital one signature card for everything without any issues. You do not need a chip n pin card [emoji849]

 

 

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[ExpatBride]

We traveled all over Denmark pre cruise last summer with no cash and used our capital one signature card for everything without any issues. You do not need a chip n pin card [emoji849]

 

I must've made it up :')

[Danish viking]

In the store I'm working at, the machine (or what the name of the card reader is) can use a signature if the system is online.

 

And I'm almost 100% certain that it will accept a card with a signature as well.

 

But this is a large danish retailer with almost 2500 shops all over the world so if you hit a small shop it can be different.

[ExpatBride]

In the store I'm working at, the machine (or what the name of the card reader is) can use a signature if the system is online.

 

And I'm almost 100% certain that it will accept a card with a signature as well.

 

But this is a large danish retailer with almost 2500 shops all over the world so if you hit a small shop it can be different.

 

I've mostly tried to use mine in independent shops, restaurants, and cafes around Aarhus, which are the types of places I expect most visitors to Denmark would be trying (aside from hotels, etc.).

 

The fact that you work at a major DK retailer and are only "almost 100% certain" that it will accept a card with a signature should tell people exactly how often this comes up.

 

My advice is to avoid a potential hassle by getting a chip & PIN card if at all possible.

[MATHA531]

I've mostly tried to use mine in independent shops, restaurants, and cafes around Aarhus, which are the types of places I expect most visitors to Denmark would be trying (aside from hotels, etc.).

 

The fact that you work at a major DK retailer and are only "almost 100% certain" that it will accept a card with a signature should tell people exactly how often this comes up.

 

My advice is to avoid a potential hassle by getting a chip & PIN card if at all possible.[/quote]

 

Ah ha. Therein lies the rub. Chip and pin cards with offline pins are simply next to impossible to obtain in the USA. For peace of mind, I do indeed have a chip and pin card available just in case but have never had to use it. Just what happens at all these places that don't take your card? you insert the card and the transaction is declined? Perhaps you have a damaged chip or perhaps the link to your bank is down. If it were me, I would have long since have called my bank and requested a replacement card because that is much more likely the problem (although the terminal should say defective chip whether in English or Danish). I would also have long since complained to mc/visa about the willful violation of the merchant's agreements which states merchants must honor and complete transactions for all valid mc/visa card even if that means to call for authorization.

 

I can understand difficulties from time to time with things like automated fuel pumps, automated parking garages, automated tolls. But I find it hard to believe that every merchant you go to with a pos terminal rejects your signature preferred card. It just doesn't add up.

 

I will give you another example. The grocery down the street from me suddenly put up a sign saying identification was required to use a credit card. I think it is never a good idea to show any ID to use a credit card as though while credit card fraud is relatively benign, identity theft is a horse of a different color. A really smart person can memorize the digits of your driver's license as well as your date of birth even from a quick glance and could use that to begin the ball rolling for identity theft. Visa/mc merchant agreements while not prohibiting merchants from asking for ID state unequivocally that merchants cannot fail to complete a transaction if a customer refuses to show ID. After a hassle, I walked out of the store, wrote a letter to visa and a carbon copy to the store. A week later, the sign was down and life returned to normal. If merchants are not following the regs, they should be reported but again if there is a universal problem with use of your US issued card, it is more likely to be something else.

[Pet Nit Noy]

If by "true" chip and pin card, you mean one where pins are preferred as the card verification method at point of sale terminals inhabited by humans, there are only 3 financial institutions in the USA.

 

They are first tech fcu, unfcu and sdfcu. The last one only issues a pin preferred card upon specific request.

 

There are many financial institutions that issue sort of hybrid chip and pin cards. They default to signatures at pos terminals and may request a pin at a kiosk type place. Examples are the cards issued by Barclays Bank USA, USAA, Andrews FCU, Pen FCU.

 

I have a card from the second group, and I've been delighted with it's reliability. I don't care that it defaults to signatures at POS terminals. On the only occasion when a kiosk required a PIN, my PIN worked. At all other kiosks, like the Tube Stations in the UK, the machines have accepted the card without requiring the PIN. Given this seamless experience with my Type Two card, is there any reason why I should care that I don't have a Type One card?

 

And, yes, the card does not charge for transactions in a foreign currency.

[ExpatBride]

 

Just what happens at all these places that don't take your card? you insert the card and the transaction is declined? Perhaps you have a damaged chip or perhaps the link to your bank is down. If it were me, I would have long since have called my bank and requested a replacement card because that is much more likely the problem (although the terminal should say defective chip whether in English or Danish). I would also have long since complained to mc/visa about the willful violation of the merchant's agreements which states merchants must honor and complete transactions for all valid mc/visa card even if that means to call for authorization.

 

I can understand difficulties from time to time with things like automated fuel pumps, automated parking garages, automated tolls. But I find it hard to believe that every merchant you go to with a pos terminal rejects your signature preferred card. It just doesn't add up.

 

I don't understand why you're so argumentative. I have no dog in this fight and I'm just trying to help the OP and others based on my personal experience living in the place they're asking about.

 

To answer your question, the terminal asks for a PIN, which I don't have. I've been told both that I can't use the card without a PIN, and that there is a way run the card without a PIN, but the person who knows how to do it isn't in.

 

Since I live and work in Denmark and have both MobilePay and DK cards, it's not a huge issue for me. I only keep a small amount of money in the US, mostly from birthdays, etc. so not being able to use the card doesn't cause me much grief. I just end up using it to buy things online or pay for my onboard charges when I cruise.

[MATHA531]

Look. I'm not trying to be arrogant or Mr. Know it All or whatever. Just trying to report the facts as Sgt. Joe Friday used to say all the time.

 

I think though the things that come out of this is a credit card for foreign travel is one package. You choose the card or cards that best meet your needs in terms of card verification method, foreign transaction fees, annual fees and rewards program. US cards lacking pin capabilities will work almost universally. They are supposed to work completely universally. Everybody has to make a decision of just what is most important to them and whatever decision one makes, is the right one.

[Desdichado62]

Oddly, the Swedish word for ticket is "billjet" and this reminded me of the French word "billet" so I guessed

I was being asked how many tickets I wanted. Why Swedish, a North Germanic language, should include a

word similar to a Romance language (French), instead of from a West Germanic language (English) is a

 

mystery to this day.

 

Well the Proto-Germanic language originated from what today is northern Germany / souther Scandinavia.

Today's Germanic languages have derivative from this languages due to internal development and external influence.

External influence meant Latin and French mostly since English wasn't widely spoken outside the British isles until

quite recently in history. French and latin was the languages spoken by the finer (and royal) families and by the scholars.

Therefore it was natural to use/loan a French word for things that didn't have a native language name yet.

 

Almost nobody or very few in Europe outside Britain spoke or cared about English until maybe until 100-200 years ago or so.

 

The English language is also much more affected and influenced by Latin and French then the other Germanic languages

since aside from Britain, most the Germanic speaking areas were never occupied by the Roman empire,

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lingua_francas#Europe

http://cordis.europa.eu/fp7/ict/language-technologies/docs/lingua-franca-en.pdf

http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/multilingual/english.shtml

 

Regarding chip and pin. I use my chip and pin credit card for almost all purchases except some where I use internet bank or

mobile payment like SWISH. Some retailers (mainly local bus companies, not applicable to Stockholm) have decided to not

 

require a pin if the purchase is for only a small sum (like 50 SEK) to speed up the boarding process for those who still pay by

card. Most people either travel cards or mobile ticket apps.

[Pet Nit Noy]

Well the Proto-Germanic language originated from what today is northern Germany / souther Scandinavia.Today's Germanic languages have derivative from this languages due to internal development and external influence. External influence meant Latin and French mostly since English wasn't widely spoken outside the British isles until quite recently in history. French and latin was the languages spoken by the finer (and royal) families and by the scholars. Therefore it was natural to use/loan a French word for things that didn't have a native language name yet.

 

What you've written isn't in dispute, but it still doesn't address the specific question of why the Middle French source word for ticket became an obviously French-derived word (biljett) in Swedish and an obviously Germanic-derived word in English. Despite your and Kaisatsu's gracious posts, I felt I had to do more digging. I'm now satisfied with what I've discovered, and I've shared it below.

 

Disclaimer: There's little practical value to what follows except that cruisers who anticipate buying tickets to museums/boat rides/etc in Swedish ports can now be absolutely confident when they see the word biljett.

 

As Post #16 has explained, "ticket" is derived from the Middle French word, "etiquet" (1520s). That word means "label or note." Etiquet is a shortened version of an Old French word "estiquette" (late 14th c). This word has the same definition with some additional shades of meaning. Specifically, it means little notes particularly intended for soldiers to explain the rules for lodging in their lodging/billets (pronounce it the English way.) These billet rules were typically stuck on the gate, door or wall. From newest to oldest, the Frankish/Old English, and Proto-Germanic words that mean "to stick" are "stikkan," "stician," and "stikken." The relationship between " -tiquet" and sikkan is obvious.

 

In the shortening process, the English word retained only the latter half of the word and "etiquet" became "ticket." not surprisingly, a word more Germanic than French considering its history.

 

In 1670, the word etiquet appears in writing reflecting the current definition of ticket, "a card or piece of paper that gives its holder a right or privilege."

 

Other odds and ends:

o the modern meaning of the word etiquette probably derives from small notes handed out at court explaining proper behavior, a shift away from the original definition about a soldier's lodging

o over time, the meaning of "billet" demonstrated the same shift in meaning. It no longer meant the rules about lodging and took on the modern definition of ticket.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Pet Nit Noy

[Hlitner]

I used to post a long explanation about this topic, but these days enough is now known (by most) that we can shorten our answer. About 4 years ago we sought out a true Chip/PIN card (that would work on the European EMV system) and found it at Andrews Federal Credit Union. On many trip to Europe we have only needed that PIN on two occasions...once for a train ticket (bought from a vending machine) and the other from a gas pump. As a general rule, if you are dealing with a human...they will be able to process a Chip/Signature. But if you need to use vending machines you may well need to have a PIN. Vending machines can include gas station (sometimes it is the only way to get gas), parking lots, train ticketing machines, etc. What is interesting is that Andrews FCU has their card optimized to use Chip/Signature..except if that is not available...in which case it will ask for a PIN. It turns out that a signature transaction is less costly for the bank...then the use of a PIN. Go figure.

 

Most of the problems have gone away now that just about all US issued cards have a Chip.

 

Hank

[FritzG]

I live in Denmark and I can tell you that you will have a very difficult time finding a place here that accepts anything other than PIN & chip. I have a US card that's not PIN & chip and it's basically useless to me, unless I'm buying something online.

 

While I don't know that it's a requirement, good luck finding someone who knows how to run anything but a PIN & chip card.

 

Last fall we didn't have much trouble using our chip/signature card in Copenhagen, but we found one store that wouldn't take the card.

 

In Rotterdam, however, we couldn't get a train ticket without a chip/pin at the ticket machines. We had to use the human ticket sellers, and the lines were so long that we realized that we wouldn't get to Amsterdam until late afternoon.