2 year olds on Zandaam?

[babytraveler]

Does anyone know if CLUB HAL will accomodate a 2 year old in any way? I understand that the program starts at 3 years old, but if I stay either within the kid zone or sit outside, will they allow my 2 year old some play time there? Or will she simply be banned from the kid area because she's too young? (and since she's also banned from the pools, are there any other activities for her onboard?)

 

Also, does anyone know if the Zandaam has self service laundry?

 

Thanks!

[doone]

I thought the Club HAL age was 5 years old, but that could have changed, not sure.

 

Yes, there are self-service laundry facilities on the Zaandam.

[Cruise or Lose!]

I think the age limit is established because of fears of liability if your daughter is injured or becomes ill. If you remain with her at all times, that concern would not be as pressing. I would suggest you contact HAL and ask first, however.

 

You should also consider the fact that your daughter is likely to become bored or cranky onboard, as there is not much HAL can organize (or should be expected to organize) for a 2 year old. As long as you keep her occupied by reading to her or doing other fun things WITH her, and her routine is maintained as much as possible, I think the experience will be fun for her - and for other passengers

[the2ofus]

HAL also offers babysitting services, at a charge to you of course, so that it will be possible to have some time to yourself, if you wish.

 

Keeping a two-year-old busy and happy in familiar surroundings is a full-time job. It will be a greater task on a ship. Do ask questions and search the boards for comments by people who have done it and have shared their strategies.

Good luck!

[Old As Dirt Mom]

....and I'm offering my two cents because you are asking for input. I notice that you have been posting on the CC boards for a few months now. I can tell you are quite anxious about your upcoming cruise to Alaska. You have explained very articulately all the parameters you are encountering: a big family reunion cruise that was not planned by you, the other family members expect you to be there, the difficulties of travelling with a toddler, parental concerns, etc. All very valid anxieties! My advice to you is to try to be as informed and pro-active as possible for this trip.

 

I've spent a little time on internet search engines, and here's some info I've uncovered. Hope it helps! Here are a few books that you can find either in your public library or amazon: Travel Wise with Children: 101 Educational Travel Tips for Families by Mary Rodgers Bundren, Inside Passage Activity Guide; Exploring Major Ports of Call in Southeast Alaska by Nancy Thalia Reynolds, and Going Places: Alaska and the Yukon for Families, also by Nancy Thalia Reynolds. These books may help you plan ahead to keep your toddler occupied and busy, and also list excursions you can do with your little ones that will not be physically demanding for them.

 

There are things you can do with your toddler in Alaska using a stroller or backpack. The Mendenhall Glacier in Juneau has paved trails that are conducive to strollers. The Alaska State Museum in Juneau has interactive children's activities, and there is also the Gastineau Salmon Hatchery which your children might enjoy. In Ketchikan, both the Alaskan Lumberjack Show and the Saxman Native Village Tour might be options for you to explore. I believe Sitka has Totem pole parks with grassy areas where children can run, but someone else would have to verify that info for me. Because I myself have never been to Alaska, I don't have all the answers, and I hope that some experts here can give you better advice than I can.

 

You have mentioned in earlier posts that you will be travelling with some 25 extended family members? Is that accurate? Have you talked with them about your concerns, and asked them if they can provide some babysitting relief for you? I can't imagine that nobody would be available to help you care for your little one. I know if I travelled with my children and I had that many relatives around, I'd hardly ever see my own kids:) .

 

Also be prepared for all kinds of weather in Alaska, even if you are travelling in June. It could be sunny and warm; it could also be rainy and cold. Wear layers, and bring rain gear! In previous posts, you were concerned about your toddler being allowed to use any of the pools or hot-tubs, I believe. Bear in mind that it might actually be too cold for your toddler to be in a bathing suit and in a pool during your Alaska cruise, so that may a moot point.

 

Finally, as a parent myself, I have to encourage you to trust that your experience will be a postive one, and that your toddler will be more resilient than you may think. Not all of us fellow passengers on HAL are old curmudgeons who dislike children:) . Many of us are parents and grandparents who can certainly understand the rigors of traveling with children and the enormous task it can be. Sorry for this long post, but I wanted to provide you with some reassurance. Best of luck to you. Oh, the Zaandam does have self-serve laundries.:)

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Can you believe that in that horrendously LONG post I forgot to mention something?:) On Holland America ships, all play areas are open to babies/toddlers if accompanied by a parent. I recommend contacting HAL for the particulars.

[babytraveler]

Thanks for the recommendations! I'll pick up those books. As you know, I am researching thoroughly before deciding to either leave child with grandparents (heartbreaking) or bring child (many challenges).

 

I'm also trying to get that definitive answer on whether 2 year old can use HAL kid area either with the other kids (with me present, since I know they won't take 2 year olds) or when club isn't in session. I understand it depends based on boat and haven't gotten a definitive answer from HAL (just sent back promo materials). It would be a factor in decision, if 2 year old could get a break once in a while in a kid friendly zone. So if anyone knows policy on Zandaam, please post back... Thanks...

 

I'm glad not everyone is a grumpus! It was starting to sound that way from some of the threads...

[the2ofus]

Keep in mind also that Alaska is a port-intensive cruise which means that almost every day you will be on terra firma. This will allow your child more opportunities to let off steam and work off some energy.

 

Almost every time I have been on a HAL ship there have been a few toddlers with family gatherings. Sometimes they are officer's families. In no case that I recall has a child been so difficult that it adversely affected my enjoyment of my cruise.

 

As a parent and grandparent I would advise you to relax, and expect to have fun rather than to have a stressful time. One reason is that your child will react negatively to your stress, kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Prepare as much as you can and then resolve to just deal with whatever comes. You'll be fine!

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Keep in mind also that Alaska is a port-intensive cruise which means that almost every day you will be on terra firma. This will allow your child more opportunities to let off steam and work off some energy.

 

Almost every time I have been on a HAL ship there have been a few toddlers with family gatherings. Sometimes they are officer's families. In no case that I recall has a child been so difficult that it adversely affected my enjoyment of my cruise.

 

As a parent and grandparent I would advise you to relax, and expect to have fun rather than to have a stressful time. One reason is that your child will react negatively to your stress, kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Prepare as much as you can and then resolve to just deal with whatever comes. You'll be fine!

 

 

Very good advice, 2ofus!

[the2ofus]

Gosh, I didn't think it posted. I hit submit and it just hung there for so long I gave up and left the internet.

[Robin7]

As you know, I am researching thoroughly before deciding to either leave child with grandparents (heartbreaking) or bring child (many challenges)...

 

I love kids! I have six boys (21, 20, 16, 10, 9, and 5) and one girl (17). We started cruising when the fourth one was ten months old. We have always left the children with relatives and considered the cruise 'our time.' It IS hard to leave them, even with beloved grandparents, but IT IS WORTH IT. We call it "marriage counseling." :D

 

It's hard to parent non-stop. A cruise is so rejuvenating. I would leave the 2-year-old at home, but I also understand how very difficult it is to leave babies behind. (It's easier with older kids. Especially teenage girls! :eek: ) Having never cruised (we've taken our kids all over the U.S. camping) with kids, I can't offer any advice about taking your toddler with you, but I wish you happy (and meltdown-free) sailing whatever you decide.

 

Robin

[Cruise or Lose!]

Not all of us fellow passengers on HAL are old curmudgeons who dislike children.

___________________

 

With all due respect, I do not think it is too much to ask that parents plan ahead so that the other passengers can enjoy their trip and not have an active child running around wreaking havoc. I think the suggestions you have made are very useful and the OP (original poster) would do well to follow them. She, her baby and those on board with her will benefit from your guidance :)

[eldercruser]

We just received the latest version of "Know Before You Go" from HAL with our travel documents for our upcoming Zaandam cruise. The section on Club HAL is fairly specific. The first sentence states "Holland America Line offers Club HAL for kids and teens ages 3-18". From this statement two year olds would not be eligible to participate.

 

The second paragraph states that "Activities are offered for kids (ages 5-8), 'tweens (9-12) and teens (13-17)". Later in the paragraph it states " Children under five years of age are welcome to participate in the program provided an adult accompanies them".

My understanding of all this is that 3 and 4 year olds are allowed to participate if an adult is present, but not anyone younger since Club HAL is for kids and teens 3-18.

 

Hope this is helpful in making your decision.

[peaches from georgia]

... As you know, I am researching thoroughly before deciding to either leave child with grandparents (heartbreaking) or bring child (many challenges).

...

As a Mother of 3 and Grandmother of 6, let me assure you that leaving your child with the grandparents is not 'heartbreaking'. It is a WIN-WIN-WIN situation for everyone involved.

 

Obviously the lucky grandparents are perfectly capable of taking care of the child or you wouldn't have asked them and they wouldn't have said yes. Believe me, they will adore having that baby alone to spoil for a week! Your child will be able to be in familiar surroundings with people she knows, keep on her regular schedule, and also be spoiled a little, rather than be placed in a strange and adult situation with very little baby-oriented to do. And best of all, you and your DH will get much deserved rest and relaxation, time alone together, time to do exactly what you want exactly when you want to do it, and pamper yourselves a little.

 

I know it is hard for parents to leave their child for what sounds in your case to be the first time, but it will be good for everyone involved. Have a couple's massage, have a romantic dinner alone in your cabin, lay at the pool all day in the sun with absolutely nothing to do but read or sleep, and just enjoy yourselves with nothing to worry about. You deserve it and your baby deserves having you relaxed and rested. :)

[alaskatwins]

We're in the same boat (no pun intended): it's an extended family thing to celebrate my mom's 70th. I don't particularily want to go, but we cannot leave the babies and they ARE pretty good travelers. It's our first cruise and I have no idea what to expect. I've been to ALaska before (on land, before parenthood), so I know it will be beautiful, but I'm glad it will only be one week. I am giving myself little pep talks, as you should. You CAN do it.

So off we go. I am looking forward to hearing your tips; please post as soon as you return! We'll be on the Oosterdam, whose club HAL only allows the 5 and up crowd. I think we'll be dining in our cabin every night.

[formercruisestaff]

notsoformercruisestaff to the rescue! Now, not all Club HAL Directors are equal, but I believe Staci will be the Director on board, and generally our policies are that we will let 2 year olds participate if directly supervised by a parent or family member over the age of 18. The Club HAL director has discretion on whether the 2 year olds may participate, and if there are high children to staff ratios, then she may determine the atmosphere is not safe for children under 3. You should note that if there is a large number of children aboard the ship, Club HAL will offer a "toddler time" or "family time" on seadays, offering the facilities for family play.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Hope to sea ;) you aboard the Zaandam (if you're aboard before May 12, 2006)

[Old As Dirt Mom]

notsoformercruisestaff to the rescue! Now, not all Club HAL Directors are equal, but I believe Staci will be the Director on board, and generally our policies are that we will let 2 year olds participate if directly supervised by a parent or family member over the age of 18. The Club HAL director has discretion on whether the 2 year olds may participate, and if there are high children to staff ratios, then she may determine the atmosphere is not safe for children under 3. You should note that if there is a large number of children aboard the ship, Club HAL will offer a "toddler time" or "family time" on seadays, offering the facilities for family play.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Hope to sea ;) you aboard the Zaandam (if you're aboard before May 12, 2006)

 

Thank you Notsoformercruisestaff! I know you have answered the question of many a parent of toddlers here. I truly appreciate you taking the time to respond to our SOS. Sure do miss you around here!

[stefhef]

If a parent accompanies the child, they are always welcome in the kids' club. Also, if you don't feel that you child is up to a 5 course meal in the main dining room, the Lido has very, very casual dining every night and the menu is quite good. You order at the counter and the waiters bring it to you. Alcohol is available too and few passengers are there. We sometimes go with our kids, the kids eat and go off to the kids' club and then we go to the main dining room. Our kids started cruising at 3 and 5 and are in love with it!

[Cruise or Lose!]

we cannot leave the babies

__________

 

I guess there's no point in suggesting alternatives? Hate to hijack the thread, but when someone makes a statement that is this absolute, I have to say I'm a little nonplussed.

 

I admit that I have only rarely encountered children on my cruises, but I think you will find a sizable segment of HAL's passenger list that would prefer you found a way to cruise without children under the age of, say, 6. If after careful consideration (of all factors involved and of the comfort and enjoyment of the other passengers aboard) you find you still have no choice but to bring the kids, planning ahead to ensure they are kept busy and not overtired or overstimulated would be extremely important to ease your stress level and theirs.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

...so that Babytraveler, the original poster, will see it, as FormerCruiseStaff has answered her question directly about HAL's policy on toddlers in Club Hal. Good luck to you, Babytraveler!

[alaskatwins]

because clearly our children are not particularily welcome on HAL. Let's stick to the CC family board, shall we?

[Kathyh1313]

because clearly our children are not particularily welcome on HAL. Let's stick to the CC family board, shall we?

 

Families are welcome on HAL. The opinions of Cruise or Lose! are his/her own opinion. This does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the majority of HAL cruisers.

 

Don't let one outspoken person with such an extreme opinion scare you away. Your opinion has the exact same validity as their's.

 

Stepping off my soapbox.....:o

 

Enjoy your cruise, however and with whomever you choose to cruise.

 

Happy cruising, Kathy

[babytraveler]

That's great to hear that we can definitely accompany younger child into kid area. I'd heard little ones not allowed in kid area at all. Having a place to blow off steam is a major benefit!

 

And yes, bummer not exactly the "same" ship! My kids love being with other kids!

[babytraveler]

That's great to hear that we can definitely accompany younger child into kid area. I'd heard little ones not allowed in kid area at all. Having a place to blow off steam is a major benefit!

 

And yes, bummer not exactly the "same" ship! My kids love being with other kids!

[alaskatwins]

I admit that I have only rarely encountered children on my cruises, but I think you will find a sizable segment of HAL's passenger list that would prefer you found a way to cruise without children under the age of, say, 6.

 

 

okay, you win. after much discussion, we decided to forgo the cruise altogether. not only will we leave the babies at home, but we'll stay with them. we'll miss the family reunion and my mom's 70 birthday celebration, but it seems quite clear that this would be the most appropriate decision, given the unwelcoming nature of HAL cruises toward children. thanks for your help in arriving at this conclusion.