NCL Freestyle and too many KIDS!

[Onessa]

. . . cruise ships are the only mandatory reporters of norovirus. If it occurred at say, a Beaches resort, there is no mandatory reporting and you probably wouldn't hear about it.

 

Three schools in a community south of here were closed due to an outbreak of norovirus just before Christmas break. It was traced back to a food service worker in one of the schools - it spread to other schools due to siblings and staff family.

[wkgeez]

I think the potty training requirement takes a lot of people by surprise because on land, children who are not potty trained go in pools all the time. These cruisers don't recognize the difference between a local park district pool and a cruise ship pool. Why is it OK all summer long at home, but not on the ship? As a parent who has and will for the next year or so cruise with a non-potty trained child, it's a tough pill to swallow.

 

There will always be people who hog chairs, there will always be people who bring their own soda and alcohol aboard, yell to each other drunkenly in the hallways at 3:00 a.m., and there will always be non-potty trained children in the pool. Period. People all over this boards can whine about these issues until they are blue in the face, but it will happen.

 

What about the non-potty trained adults? I guarantee at least a few of your fellow adult cruisers are too drunk or just too lazy to get out of the pool to urinate. A minority of folks, to be sure, just like the minority of kids causing issues.

 

Why don't we complain to Cruise Ship staff about obnoxious non-children and/or why is staff's answer "well, its their vacation, too?" I've always encountered a minority of those passengers and haven't seen anyone doing anything about them. Guess its easier to attack kids/parents.

[Rik2084]

In defense of Wharf Rat, part of the reason I take I take my two children out of school is in order to avoid the crowds that occur during the holidays and the summer. My children are polite and well behaved and sometimes get pushed to the side by the more aggressive kids while waiting their turns. I would rather go when school is in session so that they get a little more attention.

 

Another reason for going during the school year is the cost factor - it can cost almost twice as much to go during the summer and holidays. I have to admit that's the main factor - if I could go during the summer for the same amount as I will be paying in May then I probably would. I'm sure cost is a main reason why most sail with NCL instead of the luxury (expensive and less children) cruises.

 

Now, I am not one of those irresponsible parents that keystone rants about (although I'm sure they exist). My children are both at the top of their classes. In fact, my oldest was spelling champ of her school and in the regional competion she finished eighth out of over 120 schools in Staten Island and Brooklyn. Please note that she's in the fifth grade and competed against kids through the eighth grade.

 

If you see rude kids on the cruise, I can almost guarantee that they are accompanied by rude parents. And for those who don't have kids yet, there are rude adults and sometimes they're worse than the kids. To keystone , who choses to group all parents like me as irresponsible, I find that prejudicial and my children would never do that because that know that I don't condone rude behavior like that.

[lexxity]

Keystone, let me ask you a direct question? If a child is learning about Ancient Egypt or The Roman Empire is it not better for that child to be taken to these places rather than learn "all" about them from a book? Should a trip to these place come up in school time, would it not benefit the child to go?

 

Please do not be so narrow minded, am I glad you do not teach over here! I will be taking my child out of school as I was taken out of school.

 

LIFE is an education, school is only a tiny part of that.

[Stillfloatin']

I love all the excuses you folks have for taking your kids out of school. It's less expensive, it's more convenient, it's less crowded. Give me a break. When I was in school, my parents never took us out of school, but boy oh boy did we ever have some amazing family vacations together during summer and the holidays. So I got a great education IN school that allowed me to attend a large university, and I got a wonderful education when school was out that broadened my perspective and led me to a life-long love of travel and culture. And I did the exact same thing with my two sons.

 

So stop fooling yourselves, and stop being so selfish. If you were really thinking of your kids, you'd leave them in school and take them traveling when school is out, even if it's more inconvenient for you. And if it's too expensive, try taking them camping or rafting or hiking the narrows in Zion's or something more affordable and every bit as exciting to the kids.

[Cuizer2]

I love all the excuses you folks have for taking your kids out of school. It's less expensive' date=' it's more convenient, it's less crowded. Give me a break. When I was in school, my parents never took us out of school, but boy oh boy did we ever have some amazing family vacations together during summer and the holidays. So I got a great education IN school that allowed me to attend a large university, and I got a wonderful education when school was out that broadened my perspective and led me to a life-long love of travel and culture. And I did the exact same thing with my two sons.

 

So stop fooling yourselves, and stop being so selfish. If you were really thinking of your kids, you'd leave them in school and take them traveling when school is out, even if it's more inconvenient for you. And if it's too expensive, try taking them camping or rafting or hiking the narrows in Zion's or something more affordable and every bit as exciting to the kids.[/quote']

 

Family life does not end because school is in session, and not all education takes place in school.

 

If you take off work to go on vacation, why then is it not okay to take the kids off their work (which in this case is school) to go on the same vacation?

 

I too missed some school here and there. I too have a college education. I too earn more than enough money to afford a home (which is completely paid for) a car, a cruise and other vacations during the year. My missing school did not hurt my eduction, it enhanced it.

 

Perhaps you should broaden your rather narrow view of what is proper and what is not. School may be important, but it is not the most important thing in a child's life. Just because you don't do it does not make it wrong.

[Stillfloatin']

Family life does not end because school is in session, and not all education takes place in school.

 

Gee, why don't you state the obvious here. Of course all education does not take place in school, but the whole point of school is to get an education. Every day you keep your child out, he/she is missing part of that education. You can still give them all the advantages of travel, but why not do it when school is out and therefore the child misses out on nothing? Not the formal schooling, and not the advantages of travel. But then, that might inconvenience you and we can't have that now, can we?

 

And by the way, you can do all the immature name calling (narrow-minded, etc.) you feel the need to, but it doesn't give your argument more legitimacy. The simple fact is your children can have travel and school and all the benefits of both so it's a bit pathetic to talk about how wonderful your "cruise" education is. Take the cruise in the summer or on a holiday and stop trying to defend an indefensible position of parent-instituted truancy.

[Cuizer2]

Gee' date=' why don't you state the obvious here. Of course all education does not take place in school, but the whole point of school is to get an education. Every day you keep your child out, he/she is missing part of that education. You can still give them all the advantages of travel, but why not do it when school is out and therefore the child misses out on nothing? Not the formal schooling, and not the advantages of travel. But then, that might inconvenience you and we can't have that now, can we?

 

And by the way, you can do all the immature name calling (narrow-minded, etc.) you feel the need to, but it doesn't give your argument more legitimacy. The simple fact is your children can have travel and school and all the benefits of both so it's a bit pathetic to talk about how wonderful your "cruise" education is. Take the cruise in the summer or on a holiday and stop trying to defend an indefensible position of parent-instituted truancy.[/quote']

 

Children who are with their parents are not "truant." You have no right to tell parents when they should vacation and when they should not. Some things happen during the school year that do not happen during the summer. Some people cannot take vacations in the summer, so they have to go during the school year.

 

There is nothing to defend. Nobody is making any excuse for taking their children out of school. The parents have every right to take their child out of school for a family vacation. Just because you don't like it does not mean it is wrong.

 

Children miss school all the time for many different reasons. Children of parents that are serious about education don't loose out on anything because they are experiencing something new. Children of parents that are not serious about eductation have already lost out, and missing a little more time from school is not going to change that at all.

 

Perhaps you should use your vast educational experiences to re-read my post. I did not call you narrow-minded. I said you had a rather narrow view. And what "name calling" does etc refer to? Either you have purposely misread my post to bolster your own opinion, or you feel the need to misrepresent what I said so that your statement sounds superior.

[mollyeilis]

It seems to me that the original point of the post could have been stated without mentioning how many perfectly fine kids there were, and only mentioning how rotten the reaction from the staff was, to the few kids doing naughty things.

 

I could be wrong, but that's how it seems to me. :)

 

 

"What about the non-potty trained adults? I guarantee at least a few of your fellow adult cruisers are too drunk or just too lazy to get out of the pool to urinate."

 

Oh heck yeah.

 

I haven't taken many cruises (in fact, only one), but on our cruise we saw SO many nasty adults doing nasty and rude things...we were TRYING to focus on it being our honeymoon, but the adults were really trying to ruin it for us!

 

Oddly, even though it was before Labor Day, there were almost no kids on the cruise. Sure did allow us to see how many gross adults there are out there!

 

 

 

 

As far as my comments about taking kids out of school for cruses, I stand by them. Any parent who does that is irresponsible and selfish. I am a teacher and I go to conferences all the time and we joke about parents who do that.

 

Kids should be in school during school days, period.

 

 

As far as blaming the kids, I think if you read the posts, we are not blaming the kids at all! We are blaming the poor excuses for a parent.

Tell me any of these are good parents:

1.) Puts a baby in a jacuzzi

2.) Allows a child to lick off a serving spoon and then allows them to put the spoon back

3.) Allows a child to poop in a pool a second time!!! (I will give them one "accident.")

4.) Allows their children to run through the halls of the ship calling old people names.

5.) Allows their children to run through the ship running into elderly people potentially causing them serious injury if they should happen to fall.

6.) Allowing children to play on elevators and then cussing out adults who use them (that happened to me on the Star)

7.) Allowing their kids free roam without knowing what they are doing.

 

All poor parenting to me. My daughter is supervised at all times and I would never think of pulling her out of school for a vacation.

 

 

Ahhh, a teacher who laughs at the decisions that parents make. Sounds like my stepmom, a nurse, who ridicules the decisions the parents of her patients make...none of the person's business, since they aren't the parents!

 

 

Here's the problem with assuming that kids should be in school (I've seen the same assumption in my teacher-friends as well as my friends who are parents of school-aged children):

 

From school to school, district to district, state to state, and country to country, what is considered a "school day" varies WIDELY. The kids local to me were back in school shortly after Jan 1, then back out for MLK Jr Day, then back in. My sister, who lives in Santa Cruz, CA, gets a month-long break- she is out well before Xmas and not back until *after* MLK Jr Day. More schools in CA are adopting the long break, so the number of kids truly out of school at times that OTHER people aren't expecting kids to be out will grow. And that's just one example, not including differences between countries.

 

In addition, what about kids who are homeschooled? A vacation is an immensely learning-rich time, for a family who is not focused on learning while you're "in school". I have many friends who homeschool and their kids are just brilliant, and they are so lucky because the family can go where they want, whenever they can...they don't have to wait for a "break in the learning" to go somewhere! They are ALWAYS creating lessons, no matter where they are!

 

 

I don't understand the comment that children were calling older people "names". You said that children were called elderly women "granny", or something like that. That is a bad name? My son looks at certain older women from a distance and calls them "grandma", even though they don't look, to me, like his grandma. He LOVES his grandma, it is pretty much his biggest compliment to someone. He also calls women (also from a distance) with short, dark hair by my best friend's name. Last night we had groceries delivered, the delivery guy had a goatee and dark hair, and he thought it was his uncle Paul (they rarely see each other). What is my point? Kids do that! And it's not, usually, an insult. Unless of course they are all teenagers saying it in a snotty manner, but then, you didn't say that so I didn't assume that.

 

 

And *of course* you can't take your own kid anywhere during a school vacation, b/c you have, I assume, the same schedule as she does! It's not really an option, so it's not something you would ever need to think through!

 

 

 

stillfloatin': "So stop fooling yourselves, and stop being so selfish. If you were really thinking of your kids, you'd leave them in school and take them traveling when school is out".

 

Oh my goodness, you must have had really good teachers. Not the lumps that I had! (I had a VERY long paragraph about all my teachers, but deleted it after hours of wondering if I'd be happy with it in my post, but believe me, my teachers were just bad, all through my school years.) I learned FAR more sitting at home reading (we were rather poor but living in a wealthy area with high housing costs, and, sadly, didn't take vacations) than I EVER learned in school... Perhaps every teacher you had was fabulous, perhaps every teacher in every school in your local school district is incredible and can connect to every single child in a way that maximizes their learning...but that's not everyone's situation, and therefore, "really thinking" of one's kids doesn't always (I'm being generous in saying "doesn't always"...I really believe "almost never") mean having the kids in school when the district says it's time to be there, when there's something like a vacation to go on that could be really amazing.

 

 

(that last paragraph is really choppy. I started it hours ago then just let it sit, and just now went back to change some things. And then re-read it and found some ghastly errors, and in trying to edit them, might have messed up what I was trying to say. sorry!)

[Cuizer2]

... (that last paragraph is really choppy. I started it hours ago then just let it sit, and just now went back to change some things. And then re-read it and found some ghastly errors, and in trying to edit them, might have messed up what I was trying to say. sorry!)

 

I thought you stated your point quite well. Now we will just have to wait for the school teachers to grade your essay to see what they think. :)

[2Cruise4Ever]

OK, I wasn't going to chime in, but I have to. There's another point to be made here. To all the nay-sayers who say we shouldn't EVER take our children out of school for any reason: I guess I'm a terrible, selfish, over-indulging mother for taking my son out of school the day of his grandma's funeral so he could say good bye to her. Or, perhaps it was wrong of me to take him out of school when he had to have surgery (I guess his tonsils could have waited until summer time to be removed. But, that would mean his kidneys would fail because of all the strep bacteria they were being exposed to. Hmmmm: tonsils or kidneys??). The point is: I am his parent. NO ONE has the right to tell me how to raise him.

 

Walk a mile in my shoes and then you'll have room to talk.

 

I take a mental health day off work every now and again. Why shouldn't my kids be able to do that, too? We do our best not to take them out for a cruise, but sometimes we have no choice. DH is a cop in the park system. So, he typically is UNABLE to take vacation during the summer. We're not going to miss Christmas with the family. And, spring break is only 3 days here. So, when would you suggest we take a family vacation? The only other option is to not vacation at all and that is unacceptable to us.

[miami]

OK, I wasn't going to chime in, but I have to. There's another point to be made here. To all the nay-sayers who say we shouldn't EVER take our children out of school for any reason: I guess I'm a terrible, selfish, over-indulging mother for taking my son out of school the day of his grandma's funeral so he could say good bye to her. Or, perhaps it was wrong of me to take him out of school when he had to have surgery (I guess his tonsils could have waited until summer time to be removed. But, that would mean his kidneys would fail because of all the strep bacteria they were being exposed to. Hmmmm: tonsils or kidneys??). The point is: I am his parent. NO ONE has the right to tell me how to raise him.

 

I was going to stay out of this one too but.... Sorry, this is not the same thing as taking kids out of school for a vacation.

[2Cruise4Ever]

Miami ~ I agree with you. I'm talking to the absolutists who continue to harp about education being THE most important thing, above all else. This topic has been debated to death on this board. And, I still say the same thing: no one has any right to tell anyone else how to be a parent (myself included). We all do the best we can and the vast majority are successful. The reason I brought up the illness and family tragedy is to demonstrate that every family is different with different needs. That doesn't mean that anyone is selfish or irresponsible. It is what it is.... nothing else.

 

To stay on topic: I agree that in some cases a cruise can be over-run with kids (and a rotten few can ruin it for the rest of us). But, it's not just NCL. You'll find the same thing at every other cruiseline board.