NCL Freestyle and too many KIDS!

[wharf rat]

I just wish people had not trashed my original post I was trying to get across. I wanted potential NCL Freestyle cruisers to know about the situation at holiday times. In no way was it intended to be a 'blast' about kids and family cruising. Too many people jumped in with other subjects.

The moderators seemed to be too fast in moving it to 'family cruising' where it did not really belong.

 

Moderators? How do I reword it so it is back on the Norwegian Lines as intended?

[Cruise Arizona]

I forgot to mention that I actually do appreciate when people post negative comments about poorly behaived kids because the first thing I do it talk to my kids about them.

 

The conversation starts out something like "You won't believe what I heard some kids did on this ladie's cruise... The pooped in the pool, ran around calling people names and licked the spoon in the buffet line...." And then we talk about proper behavior on a cruise ship or anywhere else in public.

 

I really don't mind a post that points out that their might have been missbehaving children on a cruise. I think that most peopel got upset because they thought that it was originally posted on this board, which is generally where families go for tips on how to make the most out of their vacation with their kids. I don't know why the post was moved, maybe it like jeans... mention jean an your thread gets moved to the fashion thread...mention kids and your thread gets moved over here.

 

Also, one of the reasons that I like to cruise at Thanksgiving and not Christmas is that there are about 50-100 in the kids club, and not 700. My kids only have 120 kids in their school k-8, so 700 or more kids might be a bit overwhelming. The kids do miss a week of school as we usually do 11-14 day voyages, but it is worth it for them to be 2 of 50-100 rather than 2 out of 700.

[Deemuch]

As far as my comments about taking kids out of school for cruses, I stand by them. Any parent who does that is irresponsible and selfish. I am a teacher and I go to conferences all the time and we joke about parents who do that.

Kids should be in school during school days, period.

 

Well that may very well be your opinion, but it doesn't mean it is the right way of thinking. True, there are probably kids who do not do well in school, and those ones probably can't afford to miss any school. But there isn't any reason why a child who is doing well or excelling in school cannot miss. If they are not suffering accademically, what is the harm?

 

I wonder how selfish & irresponsible you think my parents are for taking me out of the country sometimes months at a time? Since I was a child, every 2 or 3 years, we would take a long family vacation and travel to Asia or Europe, and be gone for 2 -3 months at a time, visiting family & travelling. We survived missing a whole semister, imagine that!!! And all the work we brought along & did each day, plus reports & journals...and to still achieve top marks when we came back?? What that must say of my parents? And how supportive my teachers were, all of them throughout my childhood, and not to mention my sisters teachers ( different than mine ), and then of course now my own children's teachers. They think it's fantastic that my child can experience the things they do! It's nice to know that mine & my child's teachers were supportive, and they must have been doing their job RIGHT, becuase we obviously excelled!

 

What I learned as a child travelling is something that cannot be taught in school. I got to see parts of the world & cultures & meet people that most people wouldnt do in a lifetime. I grew up, knowing I would want to travel & see more of the world. I grew up wanting to do the same for my children...and have done so, each year. They know more about geography, countries , and travelling than most adults we come across. They have a respect for other races, cultures, and children who do not have as much as they have in life! I was a top student, being honor roll & both my children are as well...These experiences made us who we are today, and I'm sure we are better for it.

 

In your "expertise" please explain to me how my parents taking us out of school was irresponsible & bad parenting? I would really like to know where your wealth of knowledge comes from , that you can BRAND everyone is one bulk group, and say we are all alike. YES, some kids need help, some do badly in school, some parents are selfish & dont care if their kids suffers in school....those kids maybe shouldnt be taken out of school BUT it's simply VERY narrowminded to say that all kids SHOULDN'T and even worse to state that ANY parent who does take their child out of school is selfish & irresponsible!!

 

Like someone said earlier, I think we are lucky there are more teachers out there like the ones I had growing up, than one like you , who has such negative comments, and then the audacity to say you laugh with other teachers behind the parents back making fun of them. You should be ashamed!

 

I could have a bad experience with a doctor & then turn around & say all doctors are stupid, and dont know what they are doing...but that doesnt necessarily make it true does it?

[Deemuch]

I just wanted to add one more comment. I am from Canada. I noticed that reading through some other threads, on similar topic, that there seems to be a general idea that taking kids out of school for a few days or even a week is considered a long time? I also read some of the reasons why schools in U.S find this a problem, becuase of funding , or the teachers are not allowed to give out work or homework becuase vacations are not considered a "real" absence etc.. all sorts of reasons. I have never heard of most of these...

 

Unfortunelty I think thats all politics. We have a different system here in Canada. There is no penalty for school absences...and generally vacations & length of does not have to be granted or even ask for permission. ( At least to best of my knowledge )...Simply stated if your child is not doing well academically, and they advise you that they shouldnt be taken out of school, and you do so anyways...you risk your child possibly doing poorly or maybe even failing. That would be the blame on the parents then. However, if your child is doing well, there is no reason why they cannot leave on vacation. Teachers are usually very supportive, after all, its their goal to help your child do their best.

 

I think in Canada we just have more of "family" oriented government. for ex:Mothers have 1 year off with pay to stay home with their babies, and still keep their job. An additional year can taken off without pay, and your job still held for you with some companies even!!! Dads can even share in the time off, as they are also allowed months for parental leave. As far as schooling, we pay for it in our regular taxes along with everything else. But the school suffers nothing if my child misses, if anything my kids would suffer is they werent doing well academically.?

 

 

ANYWAYS.....I only felt the need to post this becuase I think my experiences are different becuase I am from Canada. Didn't realize that before so just wanted to clarify. I am not trying to say it's better or anything like that....but I have the feeling had I lived in the U.S I would not been able to do extensive travel as a child. It's unfortunate in the U.S ,that some teachers or school policies state that vacation is not valid absence. Family time is very important...and if only the average family had more of it, maybe there wouldnt be as many problems in the world with kids. I'm sure many would love MORE quality family time!!! I just cant see how 1 week or missing school could impact a child schooling so negatively....never had that experience.

 

Just my opinion, I think I'll move on!! Enough said on this topic for me. I am leaving in a few days for my first cruise...and I'm excited!!!:D

 

Bottom line: Take your kids with you vacation, on a cruise! Whatever! Enjoy family time & enjoy your kids...time flies by so fast!

[Stillfloatin']

I just wish people had not trashed my original post I was trying to get across. I wanted potential NCL Freestyle cruisers to know about the situation at holiday times. In no way was it intended to be a 'blast' about kids and family cruising. Too many people jumped in with other subjects.

The moderators seemed to be too fast in moving it to 'family cruising' where it did not really belong.

 

Moderators? How do I reword it so it is back on the Norwegian Lines as intended?

 

That's just what I was wondering too? This started out as a comment on one particular cruise, got moved over to the family thread and became an ongoing argument about the merits of taking kids out of school. How about we get back to the original point which was what to do about parents who allow their kids to run wild and the crew members who don't inforce the rules and how that affects ALL of us cruisers? This post should never have been moved.

[wharf rat]

"This post should never have been moved." Thank you Stillfloating.

 

Is Cruise Critic trying to protect NCL from negative experiences? NCL (and other cruise lines) should just be trying to correct the situation. And to correct it they must be told about it. Maybe NCL should post a big sign in each cabin saying "YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT YOUR CHILDREN DO ON THIS CRUISE SHIP" ... "It is up to you to monitor their behavior". "Unless you register your kids with kids club NCL is not responsible for watching them, and thus, is not legally responsible for any bad behavior that causes problems to other passengers".

 

Sounds good to me!

[Stillfloatin']

Good one wharf rat!:D

[PattyW]

I just took a 10 day cruise on the Norwegian Wind (to Fanning and back). While I love freestyle cruising this was not a good cruise due to the large number of unsupervised children running amok! There were over 700 (??) kids on board. One child had a B.M. (that's a bowel movement folks) in the pool and they had to drain it and sanitize it and it was shut down for most of the day! And the very next day the same child did it again! Where were the parents? Playing bingo? Drinking? And one father took his infant in the jacuzzi and put it under water. Just how did this infant like the 105 degree water? I no longer went in the jacuzzi or the pool! Where was the NCL supervision? There should be an enforced age limit on the pools. It seems that parents just dumped their kids at the pool area and walked away. And one night in the buffet a child about 8 years old put the food serving spoon in her mouth. I told the person working in the area and they had to throw away the tray of food. The parents were standing there saying absolutely nothing. And kids would run around the deck day and night yelling 'hi granny' at 'elderly women'... Talk about bad parenting. Sad state of affairs.

No one got the Norovirus as we (I hope most of us) used the hand sanitizers often. I always used a paper towel to open doors, etc. Some people a couple of cruises before this one did get sick.

 

I will still freestyle cruise but never during a holiday with all those unsupervised kids and uncaring parents!

 

Let me reword this in a glass half full way:

 

I just went on a 10 night NCL cruise during the holidays - there were 700 children on board the ship and only a handful of them caused any problems! Isn't that wonderful??

[Stillfloatin']

Let me reword this in a glass half full way:

 

I just went on a 10 night NCL cruise during the holidays - there were 700 children on board the ship and only a handful of them caused any problems! Isn't that wonderful??

 

If the handful caused problems like pooping in the pool, then I don't see what's so wonderful about it.:eek:

[PattyW]

I suppose a parent of cruising children I get irritated at the generalization of parenting skills. To the original poster, it's a sad state of affairs that say, tops, 40 out of 700 children misbehaved. Only three (4 if you count the pooping as 2) detailed examples of problems were given. I don't count the name calling because I'll bet my right arm that there were a matching number of mature adults who uttered the word "brat" as there were children who uttered the word "granny".

 

To say it's a sad state of affairs and "talk about bad parenting" when there were likely 640+ well behaved children on the ship is definitely a glass half empty philosophy.

 

It's not wonderful that a child pooped in the pool, but that was one child out of 700.

 

I was inconvenienced on my Alasakan cruise where I missed my non-ship sponsored shore excursion because of an older person needing emergency medical treatment which ended up barring my departure from the ship as I was previously scheduled. I overheard the crew commenting that the person took on too much activity the day before. So I should make a post that it's a sad state of affairs that old people on cruises don't know their limits - watch out if you take a cruise when old people might be aboard? Of course I wouldn't do that - it's called generalizing and it's not appropriate.

[Cruise Arizona]

The problem is not the 693 or so well behaved children, it could be less than one percent to cause a problem, and I agree that it should be addressed by the cruise line.

 

Unfortunately there is not much you can do about it other than request that the cruise line enforce their own rules regarding un-potty trained kids in the pool.

 

Celebrity had to exclude several kids from the kids program because they had "pee" accidents while in the kids club. NCL should have forbidden that child ever being in the pool area. Perhaps pool butlers should recieve training regarding the pool rules and the most customer sensitive way to enforce them.

[FPP777]

People just dont get it. There is another thread on a similar topic going right now. It is clear a poster is going to give tips on how to take a un-potty trained child into the pool. Just amazes me.

[PattyW]

I think the potty training requirement takes a lot of people by surprise because on land, children who are not potty trained go in pools all the time. These cruisers don't recognize the difference between a local park district pool and a cruise ship pool. Why is it OK all summer long at home, but not on the ship? As a parent who has and will for the next year or so cruise with a non-potty trained child, it's a tough pill to swallow.

 

There will always be people who hog chairs, there will always be people who bring their own soda and alcohol aboard, yell to each other drunkenly in the hallways at 3:00 a.m., and there will always be non-potty trained children in the pool. Period. People all over this boards can whine about these issues until they are blue in the face, but it will happen.

[FPP777]

I think the potty training requirement takes a lot of people by surprise because on land, children who are not potty trained go in pools all the time. These cruisers don't recognize the difference between a local park district pool and a cruise ship pool. Why is it OK all summer long at home, but not on the ship? As a parent who has and will for the next year or so cruise with a non-potty trained child, it's a tough pill to swallow.

 

There will always be people who hog chairs, there will always be people who bring their own soda and alcohol aboard, yell to each other drunkenly in the hallways at 3:00 a.m., and there will always be non-potty trained children in the pool. Period. People all over this boards can whine about these issues until they are blue in the face, but it will happen.

 

I agree. Many people do not follow all the rules. I don't. I smuggle. I admit it. But in my mind, I am not hurting anybody. Some might say it effects the bottom line of RCL and in the end it costs the customer. I am not here to argue that right now. My point is if I have a drink in my cabin will it have any ill effect on anyone else. The answer is no. But if someone does not follow the rule about non-potty trained children in the pool, it has an effect on many. The health risks are big, plus nobody else can use the pool until it is cleaned. That would make for a rough day at sea. You would think common sense would prevail.

 

So what are you going to do PattyW. Are you going to follow the rules?

[PattyW]

I agree. Many people do not follow all the rules. I don't. I smuggle. I admit it. But in my mind, I am not hurting anybody. Some might say it effects the bottom line of RCL and in the end it costs the customer. I am not here to argue that right now. My point is if I have a drink in my cabin will it have any ill effect on anyone else. The answer is no. But if someone does not follow the rule about non-potty trained children in the pool, it has an effect on many. The health risks are big, plus nobody else can use the pool until it is cleaned. That would make for a rough day at sea. You would think common sense would prevail.

 

So what are you going to do PattyW. Are you going to follow the rules?

 

I would never smuggle alcohol into my stateroom. That's against the rules.

[FPP777]

I would never smuggle alcohol into my stateroom. That's against the rules.

 

Thanks PattyW. I needed a good laugh today and you just provided it.:D

[wharf rat]

I think this thread and the 'other one cited' may mean the end of civilized cruising on 'cheap cruises'. THose of us who want better cruises will just have to pay for them. It is a shame the way so many people will do things to get others sick, then gripe themselves to the cruise line if the 'bad bug' hits them. This is NOT a family cruising problem , it is irresponsible cruising and bad manners in public.

[mpk218]

Wharf rat I see they sent you back over here from family forum. LOL (sorry) ..What started out as simple informative post has really turned comical. For the record Im a cruise's with kids dad. But I completely understand your position. Heres my take. We are all on a cruise ship , we

cannot call it a day and take are kids home from the beach or where ever.

We must ALL respect each others space and try and follow the rules. A small child in a diaper should not be in the adult pool. That is why (most) ships have the kids pools . Are they as fun as the big pool? NO . Tuff.

The entitlement I see some parents bestowing on there children at cost of others is wrong. But to be fare , The next time I hear some drunk at 3am banging down the hall way or an adult lightly stepping in front of my kid at the buffet line because they think Im not watching or like on our last cruise when 4 adults where cramed into the tiny childrens hot tub ( ncl Sun) while the kids stood there and waited ( until I told them to act there age ) I too get pissed.....Ok Im done , do you get my point ? mpk

[PattyW]

I think this thread and the 'other one cited' may mean the end of civilized cruising on 'cheap cruises'. THose of us who want better cruises will just have to pay for them. It is a shame the way so many people will do things to get others sick, then gripe themselves to the cruise line if the 'bad bug' hits them. This is NOT a family cruising problem , it is irresponsible cruising and bad manners in public.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/GIlist.htm#2006

 

Here's the cdc's list of outbreaks back into the '90's. Looks to me like every line has been affected, including SilverSea, Crystal and Cunard. So, ummm . . . good luck.

 

Remember, you can only protect yourself, so - wash your hands!

[wharf rat]

And what is the last posting on the sick list? A cruise just 10 days before the one I took. Causative Agent - Pending? Hummmmm. Maybe they should look at the pools/jacuzzis? I must have washed my hands a dozen and more times a day and used paper towels to open doors, etc. Why did this virus (Norovirus) not appear on ships in the past? Why do hundreds get sick now on so many cruises? Anyone got any ideas? Hummmmmm.??

 

2006 Cruise Line Cruise Ship Sailing Dates Causative Agent Norwegian Cruise LineNorwegian Wind11/29-12/9Pending

[crusinmama06]

And what is the last posting on the sick list? A cruise just 10 days before the one I took. Causative Agent - Pending? Hummmmm. Maybe they should look at the pools/jacuzzis? I must have washed my hands a dozen and more times a day and used paper towels to open doors, etc. Why did this virus (Norovirus) not appear on ships in the past? Why do hundreds get sick now on so many cruises? Anyone got any ideas? Hummmmmm.??

 

2006 Cruise Line Cruise Ship Sailing Dates Causative Agent Norwegian Cruise LineNorwegian Wind11/29-12/9Pending

 

We have a major Norovirus outbreak at a local nursing home here in PA...and there aren't any pools/jacuzzis there. ;)

[Stillfloatin']

Why did this virus (Norovirus) not appear on ships in the past? Why do hundreds get sick now on so many cruises? Anyone got any ideas? Hummmmmm.??

 

They probably did have just as many outbreaks, but without the Internet to spread the word quickly before the ship even arrived back in home port, no one other than some of the passengers were aware of it so the media wasn't waiting at the dock to turn it into a major story.

[wharf rat]

Stillfloatin... You have a point there. Just see how fast I got 'the word out about the pool nasties'.. In the past (LOL) news was so slow to fly around the world. I had forgot about that CDC web site but I have book marked it. Very interesting. If you click on the date the cruise occured you can get an expanded info blurb about how many got sick, etc.

Maybe in the 'old days' people did not travel if they were ill, but now they go go go (think about that pool). THere does not seem to be much care about how you treat your fellow traveler these days. So you make someone (or hundreds) ill, so what? YOU are entitled to do what YOU want at anyone elses expense. Note the thread where you will be told how to take your potty child where ever you choose, regardless of ship rules. That would not be so in the past. People have changed and so everything else has changed. And not for the better in all things. It is our loss. And society's loss.

[Stillfloatin']

Yes, civility and personal standards have dropped significantly in the past 50 years. Sign of the times, I guess. Heck, I remember as a child, when my parents took us into the "city" (San Francisco), I had to wear white gloves and a hat and a nice dress. My dad and brother wore suits. And if you were lucky enough to get to ride in an airplane, you dressed up for it. :eek:

 

Now, in reality, I'm glad we're not that formal anymore, but I wish it hadn't degenerated to an "anything goes" level. Somewhere in the middle would be just right, IMO.

[PattyW]

While the CDC does specifically mandate that non-pottytrained children not be allowed in cruise ship pools, the majority of the mandates focus on sanitary measures to be taken relative to food service and cabin cleaning. Norovirus is not strictly spread through poop in pools, I don't know why everyone focuses on that and that alone - an infected crew member working in food service will pass on the virus to more people more quickly. An infected person who doesn't wash their hands after going to the bathroom or sneezing and then holds handrails in the stairwells could infect just as many. It's a constant battle all around when you are basically quarantined with the same 3,000 passengers and 1000 crew members for the week.

 

And remember, I'm not trying to minimize the horrible inconvenience of cleaning up poop or (as someone else mentioned) vomit in the pool, or stigmatizing people with poor personal hygiene, but human feces/vomit/saliva does not naturally contain norovirus - the person has to be infected before it's an issue.

 

Also, cruise ships are the only mandatory reporters of norovirus. If it occurred at say, a Beaches resort, there is no mandatory reporting and you probably wouldn't hear about it.