NCL Freestyle and too many KIDS!

[romath]

So, wharf rat, do you travel with kids or did you just come visit us on the family forum to make us feel bad for your crappy experience??? From your NCL posting I got the impression that you traveled alone.

 

Just so you know, wharf rat originally posted in the NCL forum and a moderator moved it here. She/he didn't come to the family forum to slam people because she/he didn't originally post here.

[shellie100]

Just so you know, wharf rat originally posted in the NCL forum and a moderator moved it here. She/he didn't come to the family forum to slam people because she/he didn't originally post here.

Thank you, romath, I didn't know. My appologies to wharf rat. Truly, this thread should NEVER have been moved here and should be completed deleted from the family forum! IT DOES NOT BELONG HERE

[mtl kid]

Dear Shellie100,

O.K. here I go....IMHO the previous posts are well in line and are quite justified. As a paying customer I want to know what to expect for my hard earned money. Parents can parent the way they like in the confines of their own house but as soon as their bad parenting or should I say lack of affect my cruise it becomes my business. A cruise is not a dumping ground for children who's parents are too tired/stressed/burned out to do the right thing. If a parent would go to a shopping mall and leave their kids run wild without supervision or if parents simply abandon their young children for the day alone in a mall they can actually be run up on charges, so why expect anything else on a cruise ship.

 

People complaining about the way some children dress or wear their hair or choice of language can be up for discussion weather they are overstepping their boundaries

but........

People complainning about other people's children having a bowel movement in the PUBLIC pool, about putting other people at health risk because the parents cannot be bothered about telling them that they cannot taste food and with the serving spoon should be resent to parenting 101 classes.

 

I do not blame the children I blame the PARENTS.

God bless us all!:)

[Cruisemom39]

Dear Shellie100,

O.K. here I go....IMHO the previous posts are well in line and are quite justified. As a paying customer I want to know what to expect for my hard earned money. Parents can parent the way they like in the confines of their own house but as soon as their bad parenting or should I say lack of affect my cruise it becomes my business. A cruise is not a dumping ground for children who's parents are too tired/stressed/burned out to do the right thing. If a parent would go to a shopping mall and leave their kids run wild without supervision or if parents simply abandon their young children for the day alone in a mall they can actually be run up on charges, so why expect anything else on a cruise ship.

 

People complaining about the way some children dress or wear their hair or choice of language can be up for discussion weather they are overstepping their boundaries

but........

People complainning about other people's children having a bowel movement in the PUBLIC pool, about putting other people at health risk because the parents cannot be bothered about telling them that they cannot taste food and with the serving spoon should be resent to parenting 101 classes.

 

I do not blame the children I blame the PARENTS.

God bless us all!:)

 

Unless I am misinterpreting her, Shellie100 was not condoning ill-behaved children. Perhaps the phrase "preaching to the choir" was lost on you. It was Keystone's ignorant comments to which she responded. Lovely title of your post, BTW - Apple does not fall far? Get your facts straight first.

[SleepingUgly]

I have to be honest -- I booked our cruise about one week ago, and since then, have spent quite a bit of time on these boards. While I am still excited about our upcoming vacation, I am getting more and more wary that wherever we go, when people see us approaching with our two little girls, we will be greeted with dirty looks and dramatic sighs of disgust. I never knew I had to worry about whether my children would be welcome on a cruise; however, now I am beginning to do so.

 

In the end, though, we will still go on our cruise, and we will still have a fabulous time. We will be respectful towards others, and hope for the same treatment in return. Our kids will miss one week of school -- yes, call me irresponsible -- but I think that my second-grader-who-reads-at-a-sixth-grade-level-and-is-in-third-grade-math and my 4-year-old-who-can-read-at-a-first-grade-level will survive just fine, thank you very much.

 

And my main concern will not be about rude and out-of-control children, but rather rude and out-of-control passengers -- of all ages. I find it disheartening that posters on these boards never hesitate at an opportunity to bash children and group all of them as 'brats,' when the real issue is rudeness among all people. How many times have we seen people who cut in buffet lines? Or those who are too rowdy in public? Or those who push to get into elevators first. No one stereotypes these offenders (ie, "Some redhead cut in front of everyone in the buffet line -- everyone should watch out for those redheads!"). Ridiculous, isn't it? Well, that's the same as grouping all kids together.

 

Not all of us share the same parents, in case you haven't noticed. Therefore, every child is different. And as one mother phrased it so eloquently -- there are still a few of us out there who teach our kids respect for others and the proper ways to behave, whether in private or public. Please give us a chance before you rush to judgment, and please give our children a chance before you dismiss their entire generation as a lost cause. There's still hope! :)

 

Thanks,

Linda

[shellie100]

Dear Shellie100,

O.K. here I go....IMHO the previous posts are well in line and are quite justified. As a paying customer I want to know what to expect for my hard earned money. Parents can parent the way they like in the confines of their own house but as soon as their bad parenting or should I say lack of affect my cruise it becomes my business. A cruise is not a dumping ground for children who's parents are too tired/stressed/burned out to do the right thing. If a parent would go to a shopping mall and leave their kids run wild without supervision or if parents simply abandon their young children for the day alone in a mall they can actually be run up on charges, so why expect anything else on a cruise ship.

 

People complaining about the way some children dress or wear their hair or choice of language can be up for discussion weather they are overstepping their boundaries

but........

People complainning about other people's children having a bowel movement in the PUBLIC pool, about putting other people at health risk because the parents cannot be bothered about telling them that they cannot taste food and with the serving spoon should be resent to parenting 101 classes.

 

I do not blame the children I blame the PARENTS.

God bless us all!:)

I was specifically responding to keystone's statement:

A word to parents: Being a parent means being RESPONSIBLE for your child until they turn 18. That includes vacations!!! To allow your child to misbehave or to not know what they are doing is ridiculous. Having your fun on a cruise is SECONDARY to your main job of making sure your kid is not being a problem for someone else.

 

I guess if you need this kind of scolding in order to be a better parent, keystone obviously has more where this came from. Maybe he/she could share more helpful parenting tips with you in direct emails. I think the rest of us kind of have the hang of it.

[shellie100]

I have to be honest -- I booked our cruise about one week ago, and since then, have spent quite a bit of time on these boards. While I am still excited about our upcoming vacation, I am getting more and more wary that wherever we go, when people see us approaching with our two little girls, we will be greeted with dirty looks and dramatic sighs of disgust. I never knew I had to worry about whether my children would be welcome on a cruise; however, now I am beginning to do so.

Oh, Linda, ignore the negative posts. Don't spend any time worrying about this. I've taken my young kids on four cruises and 99% of staff, crew, and other passengers are totally positive. I guess that's why we keep cruising. I've never had a single bad experience resulting from child-unfriendly people. Maybe they just keep to themselves on the ship? Sometimes people are surprised that we bring our young kids, but never negative. Have a GREAT CRUISE!!!

[Catnip]

Wharf Rat: I quite agree with you that parenting has reached a new low in this country. It is extremely bad on cruises because parents think that they can just leave their kids alone while they have their fun because the kid can't get off the ship!

 

A word to parents: Being a parent means being RESPONSIBLE for your child until they turn 18. That includes vacations!!! To allow your child to misbehave or to not know what they are doing is ridiculous. Having your fun on a cruise is SECONDARY to your main job of making sure your kid is not being a problem for someone else.

 

 

As far as NCL is concerned, they won't do anything about children out of control. They didn't on my Star cruise and they won't for fear of getting negative reviews from the "adult" (I use that term losely refering to unresponsible parents) passengers. On my cruise on the Star in 2005, I coplained to the main desk about the kids running around and almost knocking my 75 year old mother over and the response I got was: "Kids will be kids."

 

My advice to people who run into these urchins who call them names (or similar) is just tell them to grow up or to get a life or even yell back at them. Maybe they will complain to their parents about you and you can actually meet the parents and give a proper explanation.

 

I recently was dealing with some Junior league basketball players at a high school game and they were standing on the tables for people to eat concession food at. Being one of the game site managers, I told the kids to get off the tables and go in and watch the game. They then cussed me out and I told them that if I caught them in the gym lobby again before the end of the game, I would have the police officer remove them from the game. One yelled at me that he was going to go get their coach to "straighten me out." .

 

I made the big mistake of going on an Easter cruise one time and there were 800+ kids on board :eek:. It was the worst cruise I have ever been on. I learned my lesson and will never, ever go again over a holiday week (or in the summer).

Most of the kids were good, but it was the 30, or so, terribly mannered brats that gave them all a bad name. As horrible as they were on the ship, I wonder how they were back at home? Do they rule the roost at home? Are Mom & Dad afraid of them? I shudder to imagine that home life. Holy cow---they need Nanny 911!!!!! :cool:

[wharf rat]

Thank you ROMATH "Just so you know, wharf rat originally posted in the NCL forum and a moderator moved it here. She/he didn't come to the family forum to slam people because she/he didn't originally post here."

 

I feel my original post should be put back on NCL board and the parent comments left on the family cruise board.

 

I did not mention the 100's of well behaved but still having fun kids. I only mentioned the ones that were bratty, and needed parental supervison. It only took a few to make a mess. I was just commenting on the ship and the cruise at holiday time. But it was quite interesting to read the comments I stirred up. Seems like a few "testy parents" out there. If you cruise, bring your kids by all means, but do pay attention to what they are doing. Some day/night some kid will fall off (or be pushed off) overboard and then people will take notice.

[KeystoneCruiser]

I'm sure this thread was moved here because it made NCL look bad and NCL is having a bad time right now at looking bad over on the NCL Board. (firing employees for posting on CC, moving people's cabins and not telling them until they show up at the pier, slow serivce on the NCL-A ships, etc.)

 

Funny, the thread didn't get moved until I mentioned writing complaints about the kids down on comments cards.....

 

You are right, this thread belongs on the NCL board and should be moved back there. Threads on the NCL board tend to be moved or disapear alot lately.

 

As far as my comments about taking kids out of school for cruses, I stand by them. Any parent who does that is irresponsible and selfish. I am a teacher and I go to conferences all the time and we joke about parents who do that.

 

Kids should be in school during school days, period.

 

 

As far as blaming the kids, I think if you read the posts, we are not blaming the kids at all! We are blaming the poor excuses for a parent.

Tell me any of these are good parents:

1.) Puts a baby in a jacuzzi

2.) Allows a child to lick off a serving spoon and then allows them to put the spoon back

3.) Allows a child to poop in a pool a second time!!! (I will give them one "accident.")

4.) Allows their children to run through the halls of the ship calling old people names.

5.) Allows their children to run through the ship running into elderly people potentially causing them serious injury if they should happen to fall.

6.) Allowing children to play on elevators and then cussing out adults who use them (that happened to me on the Star)

7.) Allowing their kids free roam without knowing what they are doing.

 

All poor parenting to me. My daughter is supervised at all times and I would never think of pulling her out of school for a vacation.

 

Finally, let's not forget to blame NCL for allowing it to go on and not stopping it when they receive complaints about it.

[shellie100]

 

As far as my comments about taking kids out of school for cruses, I stand by them. Any parent who does that is irresponsible and selfish. I am a teacher and I go to conferences all the time and we joke about parents who do that.

 

Well, that's only fair, since parents often joke about teachers who make snide remarks to parents with more parenting experience than the teacher. Fortunately, not all teachers are as condescending as you.

[silkhair1]

Yeah...thanks...how do I put this nicely as possible...? OK, here I go...The point of the cruisecritic family forum is not to post condescending messages to parents telling us how to parent. None of us need to hear this. Besides, you are preaching to the choir. The reason for this forum is to share ideas and such, not to get scolded by you. I'm sure the other parents that you scold have to put up with it, but we don't.

 

I hope I never cruise with Keystone. She is very condescending about parents and kids that cruise. Some states have year round school where you have many different times off, but Keystone would just "judge" that we are all bad parents. Oh well, she has herself to live with being miserable.:eek:

[wharf rat]

And if NCL is reading this I want them to know I gave them high marks in all areas (food, entertainment, ship board activities, ports, etc) except the pool/jacuzzi areas. I like freestyle cruising and will go again, just not during holiday times. NCL, like all other cruise lines, is experiencing high fuel costs now and they are making it up in other places (pay for exercise classes, no trays in buffet, higher shore excursion costs, etc). THis is really to be expected. My ship board neighbor had over $2,500 in ship board costs. I had much less! But if NCL (and other cruise lines) are afraid to control what goes on aboard their ships they are in for problems.

 

Freestyle cruising is fun and I hope a few bad apples don't spoil it!

[iannmisty]

I am thankful for 2 things...

1) Not cruising on NCL

2) my kid's don't have a teacher like keystone

 

I agree that this forum is for parents who cruise with children...not adults who don't want to cruise with children...maybe you could get cc to start you a forum for that!

 

I heard longer cruises have less children...try those....cruiselines are target marketing families these days...more money! Apparently it is working !

[mtl kid]

Shelie in no way was my post directly at you personally but rather I used it as a justified venue to vent my frustration about having to put up with other peoples bad apples. I know for a fact that NCL and all the other major lines read the forums and take notes. Not all parents and not all kids are bad but alot of us will agree that the few bad apples are a handful. The major lines will have to come to terms with the fact that unruly children are not welcome on any cruise. I have a 16 year old son that has been on 4 cruises with us and we made sure he was not someone elses problem. I can tolerate kids will be kids but when all the whirpools are full because parents tell there kids to use them as pools and thereby giving no-one else a shot at them .....that is a no-no.

When the adult only pools are full of little kids because the parents could not be bothered staying in the family/kid pools because they find them to noisy...that is a no-no.

I have seen parents taking their toddlers with diapers in the adult only pool.....that is a no-no.

I feel this whole issue should be taken seriously and NCL should take the time to se it right.

Sorry if I ruffled anyones feathers.

[kk570]

and Ron, you just hit my second big peeve, people who take their kids out of school for a cruise or any vacation!!

 

Parents who pull their kids out of school for cruises or vacations are just as irresponsible as the ones we are talking about above. I call them selfish.

 

Hey Keystone. You are being very narrowminded about this. IMO I do take my child (15 years old) out of school for a week every year to go on a cruise. Are you saying I am a bad parent or doing this?? My son is always on the honor roll and besides the week he misses, he always has perfect attendance. Cruises (ports) can be great learning experiences for children. Maybe your school district should make their criteria for vacation leave more strict because our school district has many requirements before they approve a vacation.

[dahuffy]

Thanks Keystone. You got my point. I blame the parents, not the kids. Kids will do what they can get away with. And yes, NCL does not want to antagonize the parents. The child in the pool was certainly old enough to know better. Perhaps it was all the buffet food? There is no age limit on any of the pools or jacuzzi.

 

The food was good, and the enterainment was good. I will still go "freestyle". I have gone at holiday times because that is when I have free time also, but I have never seen such an unrully bunch of (parents). Perhaps NCL should have an 'adults only' pool. It's a thought!

 

Disney has an "Adults Only" pool and jaccuzzi area...it's wonderful!!!!

[Cuizer2]

and Ron, you just hit my second big peeve, people who take their kids out of school for a cruise or any vacation!!

 

Parents who pull their kids out of school for cruises or vacations are just as irresponsible as the ones we are talking about above. I call them selfish.

 

If it is okay for parents to take time off from work to go on a vaction, then it is okay for children to be away from their school to attend a family vacation. Not all "eductation" happens at school.

[Cuizer2]

I'm sure this thread was moved here because it made NCL look bad and NCL is having a bad time right now at looking bad over on the NCL Board. (firing employees for posting on CC, moving people's cabins and not telling them until they show up at the pier, slow serivce on the NCL-A ships, etc.)

 

Funny, the thread didn't get moved until I mentioned writing complaints about the kids down on comments cards.....

 

You are right, this thread belongs on the NCL board and should be moved back there. Threads on the NCL board tend to be moved or disapear alot lately.

 

As far as my comments about taking kids out of school for cruses, I stand by them. Any parent who does that is irresponsible and selfish. I am a teacher and I go to conferences all the time and we joke about parents who do that.

 

Kids should be in school during school days, period.

 

 

As far as blaming the kids, I think if you read the posts, we are not blaming the kids at all! We are blaming the poor excuses for a parent.

Tell me any of these are good parents:

1.) Puts a baby in a jacuzzi

2.) Allows a child to lick off a serving spoon and then allows them to put the spoon back

3.) Allows a child to poop in a pool a second time!!! (I will give them one "accident.")

4.) Allows their children to run through the halls of the ship calling old people names.

5.) Allows their children to run through the ship running into elderly people potentially causing them serious injury if they should happen to fall.

6.) Allowing children to play on elevators and then cussing out adults who use them (that happened to me on the Star)

7.) Allowing their kids free roam without knowing what they are doing.

 

All poor parenting to me. My daughter is supervised at all times and I would never think of pulling her out of school for a vacation.

 

Finally, let's not forget to blame NCL for allowing it to go on and not stopping it when they receive complaints about it.

 

I sure am glad my child is not in your class. Frankly, based on your posts here, I question your competence as an educator.

[shellie100]

Shelie in no way was my post directly at you personally

My mistake. When I saw "Dear Shellie100" I thought you meant me personally...

[beachchick]

Well, that's only fair, since parents often joke about teachers who make snide remarks to parents with more parenting experience than the teacher. Fortunately, not all teachers are as condescending as you.

 

True, some teachers aren't parents, but most are, so I think it's fair to say those teachers do have "parenting experience." Add to that the fact that they are with substantial numbers of children, interacting with them and responsible for them, for many hours per day and most teachers do have plenty of experience in handling children. It's not condescending to expect parents to be responsible for their children and their children's behavior.

 

We cruise when school is likely to be in session because we prefer to cruise when there are fewer children. This doesn't mean we hate them (we raised a DD, whom is now a lovely young woman) or that we think all children are bad (most aren't; some are) or that all parents are irresponsible (most aren't; some are). It's simply our preference.

 

beachchick

[cuccicruisers]

We take our kids out and will continue to do so....

 

Our "high honor roll" students in a talented and gifted program seem to get quite a bit of education from travel. Granted it might not be in the lesson plan that week but it amazes me how much they pick up along the way. We do try to keep the shore excursions on the educational side and they also spend time in the ship's library.

 

If they were not making the grades I would not be taking them out of school.

 

I am very glad my sons' teachers are supportive and enthusiastic. I would expect my children would not do so great if they had teachers that were negative and felt they needed to talk behind my back.

 

I do not allow my children to roam the ship alone or behave inappropriately. Some do and I do not judge them for that but that is not my choice.

[crusinmama06]

Linda - as Shellie said...PLEASE do not give any worth to the bad attitudes on these boards toward children. My 2 year old is going on her 3rd cruise in April and my 6 year old her 4th cruise.

 

For us it's the best way to travel with children. I did pull my 1st grader out of school in November and guess what...I will do it again in April. :p

 

Oh the horror of it all. :eek:

 

My poor deprived child has been to more countries than most adults and done things that most can only dream about. She took her dolphin swim photo album with her on Share Day while the rest of her class brought stuffed animals. :rolleyes: My poor child....I feel so bad for her. ;)

[Cuizer2]

She took her dolphin swim photo album with her on Share Day while the rest of her class brought stuffed animals. :rolleyes: My poor child....I feel so bad for her. ;)

 

It would have been more impressive if your daughter had taken the dolphin on share day (rather than just a photo of the dolphin). :)

[Cruise Arizona]

I am so lucky that both of my kids teachers and their school principal see the value of travel when it come to providing kids a well rounded education.

 

My daughter's 3rd grade teacher traveled extensively throughout Latin America when she was a child. The school principle has some students that are falling behind becuase their parents aren't involved in their children's education at all. She has no problem when I take my kids out of school for a family trip, not only because I am very involved in their ongoing education, but also because we don't quit learning during the week we miss.

 

Here are a few things I have done with my kids to make sure that they are getting more out of their cruise experience than just a vacation.

 

1. Before we go: Research papers on the history and culture of the area that we will be visiting. This makes the sights and places that they are seeing so much more meaningful to the kids when they visit. My son was thrilled to to visit the Cook Monument in Keleakua Bay because of all the research he had done on it. DD was thrilled to find dolls in the different Mexican state costumes because she had researched the state costume, history and meaning.

 

2. Bring an Atlas!!! We brought an atlas and had different crew members sign it and circle their home town. The kids would ask the crew memebers about the typical food, customs and traditions in their home country.

 

3. Proper ettiquette - Kids can practice their best behavior and manners and home and then put them to use on the cruise ship.

 

4. Good Decision making - Do you want to go to the kids club tonight or join us to see the production show in the theatre?

 

5. Social Skills - Again the kids can practice the good manners when meeting new people at home and then put them to use on the ship.

 

6. Seeing places outside the US - When kids see how others live out side the US they tend to appreciate what they have more.

 

 

 

It is absolutely rediculous to think that the missed week of school would be more educational to a child than a chance to see new place, experience different cultures, and meet people from all around the world.