Pre-Cruise Traveling in England

[Post Captain]

Have 3 nights pre-cruise in England prior to my June 4 TA crossing. I'm wanting to spend time in both London and Bath/Salisbury area, but this is complicated by the Bath Music Festival through June 3, so might want to actually stay just outside Bath or nearby, even as far away as Salisbury.

 

Then on the second afternoon or early evening, take the train to Bath. The next day, the Mad Max Stone Circles & Villages tour sounds fun (to Stonehenge, Avebury Stone Circle, Lacock & Castle Combe), though I'd also considered renting a car in Bath and doing that on my own so I could just wander at my own pace. Then on the morning of the 4th, when the music crowds had disappeared, wander Bath (yes, I know - not nearly enough time, but this is a quick overview) then drive myself down to Southampton.

 

A couple issues are that the car rental agencies in Bath aren't open on Sunday, 3 June. So either I get into Bath by 1P on Saturday 2 June (giving me only 24 true hours in London), or I rent in London and self drive myself to Bath region. Or, perhaps just train it all the way - forget the car entirely.

 

Or because of the festivals (2 if you also include the Fringe Festival) should I drop Bath entirely and instead perhaps stay in Salisbury - again with the logistical questions of car vs. train or combo. Could also do 2 nights in London, leaving on the morning of the 3rd, driving myself to Bath, hitting Salisbury, Avebury and Stonehenge on the way, then drive down to Southampton on the 4th.

 

Looking for input on this plan - tell me I'm totally daft, or that this is crazy, but doable for why I'm wanting to do all this. Bath isn't a necessity, especially with the festivals, but so many clients are asking for recommendations on itineraries like this that I wanted to do an overview to better know this area.

 

As an aside, this will all be done as a solo traveler, if that affects your recommendations.

 

Words of wisdom and advice much appreciated. There are so many wonderful experts on this board who live in the UK, I'd appreciate your assistance.

BurBunny, I visited Bath on the spur of the moment during the 2005 music festival, & almost didn't find a place to stay. The Tourist Information Centre finally was able to book me a single in a rather shabby place for 80 pounds--twice the cost of what one might normally pay for the pleasant B&Bs in Pulteney Gardens out of season.

 

Have you considered staying in Bradford on Avon for Bath? It's one of my favorite small towns in England, and is just 10 minutes from Bath by train (on the Bath-Salisbury-Southampton line), 25 minutes by bus. (Or you can walk along the canal in about two hours.)

 

http://www.bradfordonavon.com/

http://www.bradfordonavon.co.uk/

http://www.robslade.demon.co.uk/boa/boa.htm

 

I've never stayed there overnight, but I always make a point of visiting Bradford whenever I have a couple of days in Bath. (You must stop at the Dandy Lion for lunch & a pint.) Of course, I'm sure others who are visiting Bath for the music festival might have the same idea.

Incidentally, you can visit Lacock by train & bus from Bath. (Train to Chippenham, then bus to Lacock.) My wife & I did this a few years ago; Lacock is certainly worth it.

 

As has been discussed on these boards many times, Salisbury is certainly convenient for, and within short distance of, Southampton, and it is possible to do day trips to Bath from Salisbury by train. I also like Sherborne, a very pleasant and slightly out-of-the-way small town with rail and National Express coach service to Salisbury.

 

I believe it's possible to reach Avebury by public transport, although the trip is slow and takes a couple of changes of train/bus, depending upon where you're coming from & when.

 

[travel-to-go]

Kent for Chartwell, Ightham Mote, Knole, Hever, Leeds, Sissinghurst and Scotney.

 

 

Hey! Would you guys please speak English!

What are all of these strange words?

<G>

 

Karie,

ducking

[Post Captain]

Bit of a snore as a day trip.. but I would recommend Kent for Chartwell, Ightham Mote, Knole, Hever, Leeds, Sissinghurst and Scotney.. then down to Dover. Personally I'd stay around Seven Oakes with a car.

Yes indeed!

 

BTW, for those without a car, Sevenoaks (for Knole) is easily reached by train from London (Charing X), as is Hever (for Hever Castle; depart from Victoria Station).

 

Hever is not a town nor even a village nor even a hamlet, but merely a halt. The walk from the station platform to the castle is across fields by muddy public footpaths. It's worth visiting just for lunch at the King Henry VIII.:)

[Post Captain]

Hey! Would you guys please speak English!

What are all of these strange words?

<G>

 

Karie,

ducking

Karie, Don't you know that Chartwell is where the Admiralty stores all the good nautical maps? The Cunard captains always stop there during shore leave, else they'd be forced to take the more cautious southerly route across the Atlantic when returning to New York.

 

Hever is also famous for its seafaring connections. It's where the sailors learn to toss the anchor over the side.

 

These are well-known facts.;)

 

Cheers,

 

John,

obviously in a cheerful mood at the moment

[BurBunny]

This thread sure got fun this morning! Thanks for all the input - it really is helping narrow things down and solidify in my mind.

 

Bath-Southampton is around 1.5 hours by direct train and a little more by car. Two great websites for checking such things out are:

 

http://ojp1.nationalrail.co.uk/en/pj/jp

 

http://www.theaa.com/travelwatch/planner_main.jsp?database=B

 

Thank you, Peter! Terrific sites!

 

1.5 hours to do 65 Miles? An average speed of 40 mph? That's not a fast journey:(

 

Malcolm - sometimes that's the point. Driving around at 65-70mph doesn't give you much time to appreciate what you're seeing.

 

Looking at it from an agent's perspective, I'd concentrate on those areas your clients will most frequent: London, Dover, Southampton, Harwich.

 

And if I just wanted to have fun, I'd just stay in Brighton.

My advice isn't as well-founded as that of the contributing Brits, but here it is anyway: DO NOT DRIVE! Unless you are accustomed to driving on the "wrong" side of the road - but even then, a parking and traffic nightmare.

Train or National Express Coach (much nicer than Greyhound) is the way to go. And why not day trips to Oxford and/or Cambridge?

I do agree with your apparent theory "It's OK to exhaust yourself if you can recover on QM2 transatlantic". Have fun.

 

Actually, the most frequent questions clients ask: how do I get there on my own? Where's a good place to stay? How far is it? Is it difficult to carry my luggage? What's a good place to eat? How long does it take to get from Point A to Point B? What should I see? These questions are most frequently asked of Dover, Southampton and Harwich in that order. In 2008, more ships will be in Harwich, so we'll be answering more questions. I receive lots of questions on what to see and where to eat in Dover from clients whose sailings are spending the day in Dover.

 

London, IMHO is pretty much a no brainer.. there is so much information available on the net.

 

Yes, the most frequent questions are about the train links and getting from London to the various ports. But unless I leave my luggage in London for the day and just take the train links to Harwich and Dover, then head over to Southampton for my sailing, checking all those out is not going to happen. With the trains, I actually don't feel I need to have done all of them to extrapolate info from one to another. And that's never been where I feel my weakness is for my clients - I can explain those now not having done them and my clients tell me it goes smoothly.

 

Where I am not as strong is on the whole experience - painting the picture of PLACES, not just the logistics. Driving on the left side so I can honestly help people decide if that's for them or they should stick to trains or private drivers/tour operators. Talk about the countryside and the towns. Tell them if Stonehenge is still worth it even though it's roped off. That's where the real value of BEING THERE makes the difference to most of my clients and what they want.

 

Dover would be lovely, but it's the wrong direction for my sailing. I'll back track some, but that's a bit too much for this trip. At least a night in London is a necessity as I just need to get my bearings from "feet on the ground." I remember places from when there as a teen, but not how the parts fit together.

 

And while this is a FAM trip, since I'm setting the schedule, and limited in time, and I'm already having to choose between the questions and destinations about which my clients most frequently inquire, I'm going to choose those which also most interest me as well ;)

 

Kent, Dover and Brighton areas would work on another trip, but that's just too much on this I fear. Unless it's one night in London just to get bearings, head out the next morning doing a loop to Kent, Canterbury, Dover then overnight in Brighton, next day head up to Windsor and over through Avebury and Bath to overnight in Bristol, then on the way to Southampton, through Salisbury and on down.

 

But that just sounds too manic to me. Especially traveling alone, it's too much car time, with hardly even time to step out, wander and grab a bite, then move on. There's no *experience* there to share, except talking about what I drove through - and that's "yawn" to me and no real benefit.

 

So I think the Kent/Canterbury/Dover/Brighton loop is better served next trip back, as even if I extended this one by a couple days to do it, sometimes too many different places at once start to blur together. Love the suggestions for there, and it's helped me form a plan for next time.

 

This trip seems to be coalescing around spending one night in London, leaving the next day and heading west, likely with 2 nights in Bristol (with the 2 festivals in Bath, finding what I want there is going to be more difficult, though I'm still trying) and day tripping from there into Bath, Avebury, Salisbury, etc., then on down to Southampton.

 

BurBunny, I visited Bath on the spur of the moment during the 2005 music festival, & almost didn't find a place to stay. The Tourist Information Centre finally was able to book me a single in a rather shabby place for 80 pounds--twice the cost of what one might normally pay for the pleasant B&Bs in Pulteney Gardens out of season.

 

Have you considered staying in Bradford on Avon for Bath? It's one of my favorite small towns in England, and is just 10 minutes from Bath by train (on the Bath-Salisbury-Southampton line), 25 minutes by bus. (Or you can walk along the canal in about two hours.)

 

http://www.bradfordonavon.com/

http://www.bradfordonavon.co.uk/

http://www.robslade.demon.co.uk/boa/boa.htm

 

I've never stayed there overnight, but I always make a point of visiting Bradford whenever I have a couple of days in Bath. (You must stop at the Dandy Lion for lunch & a pint.) Of course, I'm sure others who are visiting Bath for the music festival might have the same idea.

Incidentally, you can visit Lacock by train & bus from Bath. (Train to Chippenham, then bus to Lacock.) My wife & I did this a few years ago; Lacock is certainly worth it.

 

As has been discussed on these boards many times, Salisbury is certainly convenient for, and within short distance of, Southampton, and it is possible to do day trips to Bath from Salisbury by train. I also like Sherborne, a very pleasant and slightly out-of-the-way small town with rail and National Express coach service to Salisbury.

 

I believe it's possible to reach Avebury by public transport, although the trip is slow and takes a couple of changes of train/bus, depending upon where you're coming from & when.

 

 

Love these suggestions - Bradford on Avon may be just the ticket! There's a Cuban music concert on Saturday night at the festival which would be fun, but I know what overall festivals can be. Especially as a single woman traveling alone, basing outside the main area can be much nicer. Thank you!

 

And thank you everyone for such a fabulous discussion - keep it coming! This is a great conversation, not just for me.

 

So, Ken, when are you going to invite me to come visit your establishment? ;)

[mufi]

Hey! Would you guys please speak English!

What are all of these strange words?

<G>

 

Karie,

ducking

 

Winston Churchill's house, Moated manor house, Grand mansion house, Castle home of Anne Boleyn, Castle, Garden created by Vita Sackville-West, Victorian house and garden with a ruined castle.

 

All in Kent the "Garden of England"

 

David.

[guernseyguy]

Hey! Would you guys please speak English!

What are all of these strange words?

 

we will if you will!;)

[Kindlychap]

So Ken prefers the fakeness of the Royal Pavilion to the glorious heritage of York Minster.

 

Now why isn't that a surprise? ;)

 

 

Matthew

[KenC]

So Ken prefers the fakeness of the Royal Pavilion to the glorious heritage of York Minster.

 

Now why isn't that a surprise? ;)

 

 

Matthew

 

A bit rich spoken by someone who likes the fakeness of QE2 ;)

 

Ken

[KenC]

This thread sure got fun this morning! .......

So, Ken, when are you going to invite me to come visit your establishment? ;)

 

You're always welcome and a CC discount is always available ;)

 

Ken

[guernseyguy]

A bit rich spoken by someone who likes the fakeness of QE2 ;) Ken

 

You misunderstand....Matthew likes his fakeness relatively recent.....except the QV of course....... where you like your 'fakeness' freshly minted.....

[BurBunny]

You're always welcome and a CC discount is always available ;)

 

Might just show up on the doorstep, then... at some point! ;)

[KenC]

Might just show up on the doorstep, then... at some point! ;)

 

Might be advisable to call or book in advance ;)

[BurBunny]

Might be advisable to call or book in advance ;)

 

But of course. I may be a TA, but I'm somewhat civilised and house broken.

[Brightwaters]

:mad: It reads to me this thread IS The English Working Class at Play.

 

Still and all, good luck with your planning.

[legallady]

Now I'm going to log in and muddy the waters a bit: Just booked the QE2 e/b pond crossing for April 12, 2008 and am at the very start of my plotting and planning post-cruise. My plans only take me to 4 or 5 days beyond Southampton, and then 2 days in London before ret'g to NYC. I had first thought of BritRail, but schlepping luggage on & off rail platforms, and into different lodgings every night isn't my idea of fun (I'm a female "boomer" and w/b traveling solo). So I'm pretty convinced that I'll be renting a car (I've driven international before) and exploring the Southampton/Bournemouth/Salisbury/Stonehenge/Winchester/Portsmouth area from one base. I want to arrive armed with my GPS navigator and a general itinerary -- but be able to spontaneously alter it. I can do an escorted tour in London if necessary, but I want History and Views and Charming and Typical and Landscapes once I get off the ship. Please don't tell me that I need to get a grip! I just want to hear that this is do-able -- and then tell me the absolute "Must Do's"! I'm already studying "Best-Loved Drives . . ." and "Traveller's History of . . ." in preparation & anticipation. "Locals" -- please respond!

Thanks.

[choosycruiser]

2 very nice hotels near Maidenhead just west of London are

 

http://www.monkeyisland.co.uk/ On its own island on the Thames at Bray and close to Michelin starred restaurants, The Waterside Inn and The Fat Duck. Beautiful setting.

 

http://www.clivedenhouse.co.uk/. Once the home of the Astors and site of the infamous Profumo affair, Cliveden is a National Trust property and luxury hotel. You would want to stay there for your whole stay. It is fabulous.

 

You can get to London and Bath easily and quickly by train or car from Maidenhead. I would use GPS if you are driving. You are also central for Windsor and Eton, Cookham and Marlow which are all charming and historic towns and villages.

 

Lacock has a nice hotel called The sign of the Angel but it is small and may get booked up if the festival is on.

 

Remember that if you are driving in London on a weekday there is congestion charging.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/ gives you details about all kinds of travel in London.

The Tate to Tate boat on the Thames is very good. You can get a day rover ticket and get on and off as you like. It stops at Tate Britain, The London Eye and Tate Modern.

 

Have a wonderful trip.

 

Best Wishes

 

Annie

[Scrumpy]

Burbunny,

If you've now decided to stay mostly in and around London, I'd like to recommend the Royal Observatory. I haven't seen it mentioned, but it might be something that'd appeal to your clients. My stepdad is an astronomy nut and insisted I go. He was right. The whole area is lovely, so you can have a leisurely lunch at the park, then go to the Observatory, which makes for a nice break in a city full of other things to see and do. I don't know if I've seen Hampton Court mentioned, but it is also a very nice way to spend a morning or afternoon (or all day). Are you going to the theatre? That would be a must-do for a lot of people, especially if you are skipping Stratford-upon-Avon. Because I'm the cheesiest person on earth, I had to go to Hippodrome...

 

There is also a summer letting scheme at Imperial College. Not sure when they have breaks, but the dorm rooms are fine for a night or two and are within blocks of the Victoria and Albert Museum (think it was Victoria and Albert). Also close to a tube station. Something you might check out for your single travellers or those on a budget.

 

I don't know if I've read any reassurances from an American about this or not, but it is an easy transition to driving on the left. Easier than you expect - you naturally do what the folks in front of you are doing. I jumped in the deep end at Dublin airport, drove all over Ireland, then did all the driving when we lived in Oxford... * (And, if anyone ever wanted my suggestion for a base of operation, it would always, always be Oxford; lots of things within a couple of hours of there, beautiful is many ways and full of history - I'm totally biased, of course).

 

Good luck! I hope to read about your adventures when you return.

[Kindlychap]

Those planning on driving in London might do well to consider a couple of things.

 

Firstly, a lot of the English don't do it because it is so frenetic.

 

And I've even heard black cab drivers say the same.

 

You need to think two or three junctions ahead in London - even with Sat Nav.

 

I avoid it like the plague!

 

Matthew

[Norfolk Brit]

Those planning on driving in London might do well to consider a couple of things.

Firstly, a lot of the English don't do it because it is so frenetic.

And I've even heard black cab drivers say the same.

You need to think two or three junctions ahead in London - even with Sat Nav.

I avoid it like the plague!

Matthew

 

I was about to post something similar, Matthew. I come from London; I've driven through it once and never again.

[BurBunny]

Burbunny,

If you've now decided to stay mostly in and around London, .

 

Actually, decided on 2 days in London, then 2 nights in Bath. (If anyone knows both the Ayrlington and the Radnor B&Bs, would love info on them - trying to decide between them for Bath).

 

Those planning on driving in London might do well to consider a couple of things.

 

Firstly, a lot of the English don't do it because it is so frenetic.

 

Definitely don't want to be driving in London! Only going to do it from the car hire location (I'm likely to pick up in Kensington) on out. I don't like driving in any unfamiliar city!

 

From what I hear, the biggest issue for those from the US with driving is turns coming out of parking lots and the like. Roads aren't too bad to get used to, but the turns just make you pause to think it out at first.

 

Will share all my adventures when I return!

[Kindlychap]

From what I hear, the biggest issue for those from the US with driving is turns coming out of parking lots and the like. Roads aren't too bad to get used to, but the turns just make you pause to think it out at first.

 

From what I recall of driving in the western part of the US, your biggest shocks will be roundabouts and the speed at which people drive on the motorway.....

 

Matthew

[Scrumpy]

Agree about the roundabouts - have a few of them around here and they confuse people. I must say that even in England, some people don't use them properly, though. Can be quite an adventure... Our highway speeds around here are 75mph. Are they higher now in England? I don't remember, but it's been a while.

 

Have fun, Burbunny!

[BurBunny]

Fortunately have pretty good experience with roundabouts, and they don't phase me. If it's a particularly complicated and busy one, might have to do an extra time around to identify my proper exit, but fortunately they don't raise my stress or blood pressure when confronted with one. You just have to be confident in merging quickly and be very alert.

 

Having a father who at one time raced Porsches, speed usually isn't an issue, either. Looking forward to the adventure!

[Kindlychap]

Agree about the roundabouts - have a few of them around here and they confuse people. I must say that even in England, some people don't use them properly, though. Can be quite an adventure... Our highway speeds around here are 75mph. Are they higher now in England? I don't remember, but it's been a while.

 

Have fun, Burbunny!

 

The signs say 70......

 

The question is how many people keep to the limits!

 

Matthew