Carnival lost my daughter from Camp Carnival

[bplazo]

My ten or eleven year old would not be walking around a cruise ship without any supervision. They should either be in the kids club or with me.

[nealstuber]

The question all you wise people who are saying that their 8, 9 & 10 yo's can navigate the ship by themselves need to be asking yourself is, "do I want my kid walking in the ship by themself where any 2 bit pedo weirdo can scoop them up and........?"

 

I wouldn't! No matter how smart my kid was!

 

The question you need to ask yourself is - since its far more likely that you will become inadvertently separated from your child (just like OP) - why do you risk cruising when something bad might happen once you are separated?

 

Some weirdo can scoop them up anywhere - for every anecdotal horror story about child molestations on cruise ships, there are thousands (if not tens of thousands) of similar stories from real life.

 

So yes, I do want my kids (8 & 10) to assume some independence (and learn the responsibilities that come with it) in the relatively controlled environment of a cruise ship.

 

BTW - in the month that this thread has been kicken' there have been lots of "almost" stories with respect to ship pedofiles, but I don't recall seeing a link to anything serious actually happening. Thats a great thing.

[halos]

The question you need to ask yourself is - since its far more likely that you will become inadvertently separated from your child (just like OP) - why do you risk cruising when something bad might happen once you are separated?

 

Some weirdo can scoop them up anywhere - for every anecdotal horror story about child molestations on cruise ships, there are thousands (if not tens of thousands) of similar stories from real life.

 

So yes, I do want my kids (8 & 10) to assume some independence (and learn the responsibilities that come with it) in the relatively controlled environment of a cruise ship.

 

BTW - in the month that this thread has been kicken' there have been lots of "almost" stories with respect to ship pedofiles, but I don't recall seeing a link to anything serious actually happening. Thats a great thing.

 

Neal, again I don't understand your logic. YES, anything can happen at any time, anywhere but if you were taking a land vacation would you allow your 10 year old to run loose?? Being on a ship is NO different than being on land.

I don't see parents allowing their kids to run free at WDW. People have a false sense of security on a ship...and I emphasize FALSE. A cruise ship is NOT a controlled environment. :rolleyes:

 

here is a link for you. No one was hurt on the ship, (as far as the article states anyway) but in NO way are cruise ships controlled enough to keep sickos from being on board.

This one just happened to get caught. (I stole this from another thread)

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/0...ef=mpstoryview

 

Crap...the link no longer works...

anyway a pedophile, complete with his computer filled with all kinds of child porn was arrested off a RCCL ship.

I'm sorry the link doesn't work.

 

Found a different article on the same guy: http://hamptonroads.com.nyud.net/2009/06/cruise-passenger-faces-childporn-charge-after-search

[tammi0916]

Oh, for Heaven's sake at 10 or 11 yrs. old my cousin and me would walk all around the ship. Sure a couple times we would get a little confused of where we were. Usually that only happened the first or second night. I know if I ever did get lost I could simply ask one of the staff members or even a guest of where my room was by simply giving them my room number! No offense but some kids just aren't very resourceful! They are not gonna win a law suit because they didn't break any rules!

 

 

Very scary that you were giving your room number to people walking by and that they could follow you or "take" you there and you were all alone in your cabin - that sounds very safe to me!

 

It has nothing to do with how resourceful my 10 year old it - I will not allow her to walk the ship with out me or my husband with her - that I just responsible parenting.

[tammi0916]

I ALWAYS stayed THAT ATTENTIVE while my daughter was at home. Now that she has moved out I STILL WORRY every day that she is safe and sound, just like MY MOTHER did!

 

Are YOU that attentive, it sure doesn't read like it!

 

What YOU have to realize is that pedos want what they want and getting caught does not enter into their thought process.

 

Yeah the odds MAY be slim, but I'd rather err on the side of CAUTION!

 

Obviously I am in the MINORITY, and THAT is very sad!

 

 

Well then I am part of the MINORITY too - I always err on the side of caution as you just never know!

[nealstuber]

Neal, again I don't understand your logic. YES, anything can happen at any time, anywhere but if you were taking a land vacation would you allow your 10 year old to run loose?? Being on a ship is NO different than being on land.

I don't see parents allowing their kids to run free at WDW. People have a false sense of security on a ship...and I emphasize FALSE. A cruise ship is NOT a controlled environment. :rolleyes:

 

here is a link for you. No one was hurt on the ship, (as far as the article states anyway) but in NO way are cruise ships controlled enough to keep sickos from being on board.

This one just happened to get caught. (I stole this from another thread)

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/0...ef=mpstoryview

 

Crap...the link no longer works...

anyway a pedophile, complete with his computer filled with all kinds of child porn was arrested off a RCCL ship.

I'm sorry the link doesn't work.

 

Found a different article on the same guy: http://hamptonroads.com.nyud.net/2009/06/cruise-passenger-faces-childporn-charge-after-search

 

 

I saw that story when it came out - yes I get that there are bad people in the world and the cruise ship is in the world.

 

While we would not let our kids rome around the City of South Padre, sometimes we sit on the beach while they play tennis, shuffleboard or swim in the hotel pool. Again, they use the buddy system, have a cell phone and need to be at a certain place at a certain time. But we consider this a much risker proposition than what we permit while cruising.

 

It is not a false sense of security to state - quite factually - that our kids are at greater risk of pedophiles in school, in church, and walking to their freinds house then when they are on a ship.

 

What does not make sense is your attitude towards risk management. It is based on sensationalism (which isn't even that sensational) not the actual risks involved.

 

I will spare you a whole dissertation on risk reward ratios - but suffice it to say, where ever your kids are now - they are at risk. You can do a google news search and find something bad that happend to somebody doing just about anything. What risks are worth the rewards? Impossible to say. But there are risks in not instilling some self-sufficiency as the risk of being inadverntatly separated is much, much, much, much higher than something bad happening once you are separated.

[LemurCat]

My ten or eleven year old would not be walking around a cruise ship without any supervision. They should either be in the kids club or with me.

 

You don't know that. A million things can happen that can result in you and your kid being seperated.

 

I love this line of thinking ... "My kid will be WITH ME. NO EXCEPTIONS. NO EXTRAORDINARY EVENTS. EVER."

 

Guess what? Life doesn't roll that way. I'm sure the OP thought the same thing and yet look at what happened. What happens if your kid stops to tie their shoe and you don't notice? Or darts off for a second to check something out? They're a kid, not an automaton. Stuff happens. Have a plan in place if it does.

 

Contigency planning is a good thing. It ensures that if something *should* happen your kid does more than sit down and cry and make themselves a target for an opportunist.

[cathyoo]

Neal, again I don't understand your logic. YES, anything can happen at any time, anywhere but if you were taking a land vacation would you allow your 10 year old to run loose?? Being on a ship is NO different than being on land.

I don't see parents allowing their kids to run free at WDW. People have a false sense of security on a ship...and I emphasize FALSE. A cruise ship is NOT a controlled environment. :rolleyes:

 

 

We took land vacations at resorts when my children were small. They had children's camps also. It was a smaller environment and my children did more around freely. However, if my child was SICK, sick enough to be asked to leave I would have expected someone would have made sure she was delivered to a responsible adult.

[bazarr2]

I don't care what Carnival's policy is, but if I had children I would never allow someone that young to be out alone in a ship. I think back to when I was a child and I remember travelling with my parents to lavish resorts and hotels and "having the run" of the resort or hotel...but that was a different day and time...25-30 years ago. You just didn't hear so much about the kind of things that you hear about today.

 

Just because you didn't hear about them doesn't mean they weren't happening. It wasn't talked about because things back them were more private and the investigation wasn't what it is today.DNA and investigation are more advanced now.

[nealstuber]

You don't know that. A million things can happen that can result in you and your kid being seperated.

 

I love this line of thinking ... "My kid will be WITH ME. NO EXCEPTIONS. NO EXTRAORDINARY EVENTS. EVER."

 

Guess what? Life doesn't roll that way. I'm sure the OP thought the same thing and yet look at what happened. What happens if your kid stops to tie their shoe and you don't notice? Or darts off for a second to check something out? They're a kid, not an automaton. Stuff happens. Have a plan in place if it does.

 

Contigency planning is a good thing. It ensures that if something *should* happen your kid does more than sit down and cry and make themselves a target for an opportunist.

 

BINGO! Thank you for stating clearly what I have not been able to articulate for the past month.

 

Numerous people have stated that you don't know how kids are going to react in different situations. I agree - the only way you can garner some insight is to put them into reasonably controlled situations and see how they do.

 

Because of a disproportionate, sensationalized, concern, parents put together a fair-tale plan and mistakenly think they have reduced the over-all risk to their child.

[tedjazz]

I saw that story when it came out - yes I get that there are bad people in the world and the cruise ship is in the world.

 

While we would not let our kids rome around the City of South Padre, sometimes we sit on the beach while they play tennis, shuffleboard or swim in the hotel pool. Again, they use the buddy system, have a cell phone and need to be at a certain place at a certain time. But we consider this a much risker proposition than what we permit while cruising.

 

It is not a false sense of security to state - quite factually - that our kids are at greater risk of pedophiles in school, in church, and walking to their freinds house then when they are on a ship.

 

What does not make sense is your attitude towards risk management. It is based on sensationalism (which isn't even that sensational) not the actual risks involved.

 

I will spare you a whole dissertation on risk reward ratios - but suffice it to say, where ever your kids are now - they are at risk. You can do a google news search and find something bad that happend to somebody doing just about anything. What risks are worth the rewards? Impossible to say. But there are risks in not instilling some self-sufficiency as the risk of being inadverntatly separated is much, much, much, much higher than something bad happening once you are separated.

 

Neal, your perspective is quite well intended and thought out for you and your family and stems from your view of life and it's Risk's/Reward's as it relates to the raising of your children. I think that's pretty accurate. I am not trying to challenge your parenting style here, but I would like to point out a couple of things. There are others that have a different perspective and sometimes experience, and so the way other parents deal with this "Lost at Camp Carnival" situation is much different. Somebody called it the "Helicopter Parent". I would have been one of them with my kids. I can tell you from my Professional Experience that there are many "Perps" out there...everywhere, churches, schools, grocery stores and yes unfortunately, Cruise Ships and Vacation Destinations. I have listened to the stories about what they do, how they do it, how they choose a victim and when to know they can do it and so on. I don't rely on sensationalism from the media to guide my opinion regarding this subject, because it was right in front of me day in and day out for 25 years. I'm not trying to change your mind about how you raise your children, but please just be very careful. It only takes a few moments and lives change forever. Good Luck to you and your Family.

[nealstuber]

It only takes a few moments and lives change forever. Good Luck to you and your Family.

 

 

On this we agree completely. At the risk of sounding like an optomist, I'd like to point out that most times, when our lives change in a moment, its for the better. :) We have to allow opportunities if we expect great things to happen.

Best wishes to you and yours as well.

[argentina_keeper10]

Very scary that you were giving your room number to people walking by and that they could follow you or "take" you there and you were all alone in your cabin - that sounds very safe to me!

 

It has nothing to do with how resourceful my 10 year old it - I will not allow her to walk the ship with out me or my husband with her - that I just responsible parenting.

 

Sounds like overprotective parenting to me. There is only so many places you can go on a ship, we bumped into our parents numerous times by accident. BTW we never gave our room number but it would have been an option if I were lost!

[argentina_keeper10]

Sorry don't know how to delete :)

[G'ma]

I don't care what Carnival's policy is, Carnival's policy is that a child of 10 can sign in and out of camp. If a parent does NOT want their child to do that, there is an option to WAIVE that privilege on the form that's filled out on the first night at orientation....All that is needed is a checkmark.....it's the parents responsibility, not the Camp......

 

It's odd that this thread is still around.....hmmmm.

 

It's also interesting how many think that Camp Carnival is some loosy-goosy type of operation where children are free to come and go as they wish.

 

How dumb......

[LemurCat]

It's odd that this thread is still around.....hmmmm.

 

 

It's a Lazarus Thread. It was dead and someone brought it back to life.

[halos]

I will spare you a whole dissertation on risk reward ratios - but suffice it to say, where ever your kids are now - they are at risk. You can do a google news search and find something bad that happend to somebody doing just about anything. What risks are worth the rewards? Impossible to say. But there are risks in not instilling some self-sufficiency as the risk of being inadverntatly separated is much, much, much, much higher than something bad happening once you are separated.

 

The reality is that although I totally understand where you are coming from statistically, I didn't raise my kids on statistics. I raised them on instinct and emotion.

I'm not saying that my 10 year old would be attached to my hip for an entire cruise. BUT I am saying that parents that just 'let go' and have their kids do what they want all day long on the ship and feel that the child checking in once every couple hours is OK, are being irrespsonsible. My children were raised in a big city so teaching them self sufficiency was necessary. But as street smart as they were, they were kids and I, as a parent had a job to keep them safe as well as a job to keep them out of other people's hair (but that's another thread).

Personally, statistics mean crap to me because all it takes is one nut job on one ship to make someone's kid a statistic.

[tedjazz]

It's a Lazarus Thread. It was dead and someone brought it back to life.

 

lmao...but it probably was better off left for dead. :)

[Tammylyne]

You don't know that. A million things can happen that can result in you and your kid being seperated.

 

I love this line of thinking ... "My kid will be WITH ME. NO EXCEPTIONS. NO EXTRAORDINARY EVENTS. EVER."

 

Guess what? Life doesn't roll that way. I'm sure the OP thought the same thing and yet look at what happened. What happens if your kid stops to tie their shoe and you don't notice? Or darts off for a second to check something out? They're a kid, not an automaton. Stuff happens. Have a plan in place if it does.

 

Contigency planning is a good thing. It ensures that if something *should* happen your kid does more than sit down and cry and make themselves a target for an opportunist.

 

 

On the first cruise day..my husband and I walk our daughter who last month was 9 to camp. We did this 2x to camp and back to our cabin. On 3rd time we said now you walk ahead of us and we will follow you, to make sure she could navigate her way around. We also told her IF we should ever become seperated you are to go to any room steward or staff member (we also made sure she knew the way to pursors desk) and ask for help. We always err on the side of caution. She did not have free roam of the ship, nor was allowed to sign herself out..but like stated you never know what could happen as in this post. It is OUR responsibility as parents to make sure our kids are covered in any circumstance. Our daughter knew our home phone numbers and cell phone numbers by time she was 3.She also has been carrying her cell phone with 911 set on speedial as well as our local police department since she was 8. It takes a little work and effort on a parents part to give our little ones there wings and guide them through this scary place we call society..but well worth it in the end. I could never imagine my daughter sitting on a step and crying because she could not find her way, we make sure she knows her way and who to talk to..

[cathyoo]

On the first cruise day..my husband and I walk our daughter who last month was 9 to camp. We did this 2x to camp and back to our cabin. On 3rd time we said now you walk ahead of us and we will follow you, to make sure she could navigate her way around. We also told her IF we should ever become seperated you are to go to any room steward or staff member (we also made sure she knew the way to pursors desk) and ask for help. We always err on the side of caution. She did not have free roam of the ship, nor was allowed to sign herself out..but like stated you never know what could happen as in this post. It is OUR responsibility as parents to make sure our kids are covered in any circumstance. Our daughter knew our home phone numbers and cell phone numbers by time she was 3.She also has been carrying her cell phone with 911 set on speedial as well as our local police department since she was 8. It takes a little work and effort on a parents part to give our little ones there wings and guide them through this scary place we call society..but well worth it in the end. I could never imagine my daughter sitting on a step and crying because she could not find her way, we make sure she knows her way and who to talk to..

 

Guess who attempted to molest me when I was 9 and lost... a police officer... luckily for me someone saw him putting his hand on me inappropriately and came to my rescue. Of course this was 48 years ago and nothing was done except the neighborhood was put on notice by my rescuer.

[G'ma]

It's a Lazarus Thread. It was dead and someone brought it back to life.

 

Ah, now I see.....

 

So much for reincarnation.....some things are better off dead....

[nealstuber]

It's odd that this thread is still around.....hmmmm.

 

......

Interesting that it was "resurected" by a long term member with a post history of just 3 posts per year..... Look back a page or two - no joke.

[spaceflower77]

I agree. My understanding is that Camp Carnival isn't supposed to be as much a babysitting service as a meeting place for kids, with adult supervision so that the kids, as a group, don't get into trouble. Since they allow the kids to sign themselves out, parents should make sure there is a plan in place for that contingency.

 

It would probably also depend on your child. Either (1) you have to be able to trust that your child will not to leave without your permission, or (2) ensure that your child can navigate to the room and trust they can stay there alone. Otherwise I don't know that I would feel comfortable leaving them at Camp Carnival.

 

 

My son was 8 on our last cruise, so it wasn't an issue... next year he'll be 10 and able to do the scavenger hunts and sign himself in and out. This makes me nervous!!! Luckily our room is right below CC -- but we'll also have Walkie Talkies and check in times. I don't want him having free run of the ship... 10 is still really young. He will HAVE to have a buddy any and EVERY time he is away from a parent or CC staff memeber. Luckily we have friends joining us with their 11 yr old. I trust the boys to do scavenger hunts. Other than that, though -- the rules are that they are with a parent or in CC (doing a CC activity) unless we agree on something else. They're 10... 10 year old boys are 10 year old boys... they need supervision! :)