Please Critique my Itinerary

We are doing a 10 day driving tour of Spain between 2 cruises. We will be leaving from Barcelona and have to end up in Madrid so that we can catch a plane to Porto to pick up a Douro River cruise. We will have already spent 5 or 6 days in Barcelona before our first cruise so we do not need to allot any time for Barcelona. Also, we want to spend time outside of cities so will not be visiting Madrid this trip even though we will end up there to catch the plane.

We prefer staying in one place for more than 1 day as opposed to doing a "if this is Tuesday it must be Belgium" type of trip. We like small villages, food, wine, historical sites. We are not really into visiting art museums although I realize that a visit to Bilboa is a must if only for the building.

Finally, I do not want to budget my time so tightly that I can not make a stop at an unplanned place simply because it looks interesting. I made this mistake on our last driving trip in England and I had to miss a Steam Tractor Fair.

This is what I have laid out so far -

Laguarda - 2 nights for the wine - also any suggestions for good wine tours would be appreciated. This is one stop that might be cuttable.

San Sebastian - 3 nights

Santandar - 2 nights - archaeology

Segovia - 1 night

Toledo - 1 night

My wife worries and I tend to agree with her that only 1 night each in Segovia and Toledo is not enough but I can not figure out what to cut. Any ideas or suggestions.

Also, any suggestions as to small inns, B&Bs or Paradores that I might consider for lodging.

Many thanks.

DON

I have never driven in Spain, but have been to Barcelona twice, Madrid and southern Spain once as well as Portugal.

I see that you are taking a very indirect route with three nights in San Sebastian, which is also a place that I would like to visit one day.

My only concern would be the length of the drive. You will be spending a lot of time driving such an indirect route.

I love Segovia and Toledo. You can do each in one full day. I understand Avila is a great choice and it is close to Segovia.

You might consider visiting the Basque area of Spain on a separate trip and taking in Madrid (as well as Segovia and Toledo, which one can do easily from Madrid).

Honestly, I don't see the point in that route. Not that it's not good, but the price you pay in terms of driving hours in order to visit Toledo and Segovia it's not worth it in my opinion. Maybe Segovia, but I would drop Toledo for sure.

I have been to both, Segovia is very nice because of the Aqueduct. Toledo was not that appealing to me. It's worth a visit from Madrid but not worth a 5 hour detour. Also, it's south of Madrid so you'll have to cross it's metro area.

My opiniion: I would drop Toledo and Segovia and visit Galicia and Asturias instead.

If you don't like that idea, still you have the cities of Burgos and Leon in northern Spain that are also very fine and similar to Toledo and Segovia in terms of important landmarks. They do not make you detour too much at all, because they are in the direct route San Sebastian / Bilbao - Oporto.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Sant+Sebasti%C3%A0,+Guip%C3%BAscoa,+Espanya/Porto+District,+Portugal/@42.283829,-7.6730199,7z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0xd51a553ba98b237:0xeb1045eb7b2b969e!2m2!1d-1.981307!2d43.3183564!1m5!1m1!1s0xd2464faf074d469:0x40562c11e1142a2f!2m2!1d-8.6270628!2d41.1679725!3e0

If you detour via Segovia is only 2 hours more. And you could visit Avila, also fine with its walls. It's not such a crazy idea.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Sant+Sebasti%C3%A0,+Guip%C3%BAscoa,+Espanya/Porto+District,+Portugal/@41.6220306,-6.5304418,7z/data=!4m19!4m18!1m10!1m1!1s0xd51a553ba98b237:0xeb1045eb7b2b969e!2m2!1d-1.981307!2d43.3183564!3m4!1m2!1d-4.0991293!2d40.915227!3s0xd413fbacf296fd9:0x6bdbb2e049857d4e!1m5!1m1!1s0xd2464faf074d469:0x40562c11e1142a2f!2m2!1d-8.6270628!2d41.1679725!3e0

Landscape-wise, the northern route via Galicia and Asturias it's way greener, and more appealing to me. The shorter route via Castilla y León (León, Burgos etc) it's rather boring, as the landscape is flat and consists of endless wheat fields.

You might want to check my 6-day trip we made in October 2014. From Santiago / Galicia to San Sebastián. It's similar to what you want to do. Only that we did not start at Oporto, but 2 hours north.

http://www.losviajeros.com/Blogs.php?b=11600

It's in Spanish, but just check maps and pictures so you'll understand.

Honestly, I don't see the point in that route. Not that it's not good, but the price you pay in terms of driving hours in order to visit Toledo and Segovia it's not worth it in my opinion. Maybe Segovia, but I would drop Toledo for sure.

 

I have been to both, Segovia is very nice because of the Aqueduct. Toledo was not that appealing to me. It's worth a visit from Madrid but not worth a 5 hour detour. Also, it's south of Madrid so you'll have to cross it's metro area.

 

My opiniion: I would drop Toledo and Segovia and visit Galicia and Asturias instead.

 

If you don't like that idea, still you have the cities of Burgos and Leon in northern Spain that are also very fine and similar to Toledo and Segovia in terms of important landmarks. They do not make you detour too much at all, because they are in the direct route San Sebastian / Bilbao - Oporto.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Sant+Sebasti%C3%A0,+Guip%C3%BAscoa,+Espanya/Porto+District,+Portugal/@42.283829,-7.6730199,7z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0xd51a553ba98b237:0xeb1045eb7b2b969e!2m2!1d-1.981307!2d43.3183564!1m5!1m1!1s0xd2464faf074d469:0x40562c11e1142a2f!2m2!1d-8.6270628!2d41.1679725!3e0

 

If you detour via Segovia is only 2 hours more. And you could visit Avila, also fine with its walls. It's not such a crazy idea.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Sant+Sebasti%C3%A0,+Guip%C3%BAscoa,+Espanya/Porto+District,+Portugal/@41.6220306,-6.5304418,7z/data=!4m19!4m18!1m10!1m1!1s0xd51a553ba98b237:0xeb1045eb7b2b969e!2m2!1d-1.981307!2d43.3183564!3m4!1m2!1d-4.0991293!2d40.915227!3s0xd413fbacf296fd9:0x6bdbb2e049857d4e!1m5!1m1!1s0xd2464faf074d469:0x40562c11e1142a2f!2m2!1d-8.6270628!2d41.1679725!3e0

 

Landscape-wise, the northern route via Galicia and Asturias it's way greener, and more appealing to me. The shorter route via Castilla y León (León, Burgos etc) it's rather boring, as the landscape is flat and consists of endless wheat fields.

 

You might want to check my 6-day trip we made in October 2014. From Santiago / Galicia to San Sebastián. It's similar to what you want to do. Only that we did not start at Oporto, but 2 hours north.

 

http://www.losviajeros.com/Blogs.php?b=11600

 

It's in Spanish, but just check maps and pictures so you'll understand.

Interesting idea that I did not think of. I want to make sure that I understand what you are suggesting.

You are saying is that it does not pay to drive south to see Segovia and Toledo and even if we do want to see Segovia, we skip Toledo and also the overnight after Toledo which we would have to do to take the plane from Madrid to OPorto.

I will have to see if this works. One other thing since you have done what we want to do. If it is not too much trouble and I promise that I will not bother you too much, could you please send me your e-mail address so we do not have to go through CruiseCritic. My e-mail address is donald.schoengold41@gmail.com. I will understand if you do not want to.

Many thanks for pointing me in another direction.

DON

What I'm suggesting is that you could do a one-way car rental from say San Bilbao to Porto directly, and not going through Madrid at all. After the Douro cruise, you could pick a one way plane from Oporto to Madrid to catch your plane back home.

But there is no better or worse way to do this, you have to consider your personal preferences. Maybe you are very into Toledo for some reason...

I understand that you could be doing this:

US - Madrid

Fly / train to Madrid -> Barcelona

Barcelona cruise

Barcelona - Bilbao plane

Bilbao - Oporto car rental. Driving to San Sebastian, etc...

Oporto - Madrid plane.

Madrid - US

If you want to visit Toledo you can always do that when you are in Madrid, before of after your cruises.

If you don't want to visit Madrid, you can also fly directly to Barcelona from the US.

With respect, I disagree with regard to Segovia and Toledo. The first guidebook that I read years ago about Spain stated that if you only see two cities in Spain, go to Toledo and Seville. Segovia has more than the aqueduct.

It may be that your overall plan may skip those cities on this trip. Your planned itinerary goes to the far north of Spain and then to the center, which is a lot of driving. I suggest planning a more economical drive.

What I'm suggesting is that you could do a one-way car rental from say San Bilbao to Porto directly, and not going through Madrid at all. After the Douro cruise, you could pick a one way plane from Oporto to Madrid to catch your plane back home.

 

But there is no better or worse way to do this, you have to consider your personal preferences. Maybe you are very into Toledo for some reason...

 

I understand that you could be doing this:

 

US - Madrid

Fly / train to Madrid -> Barcelona

Barcelona cruise

Barcelona - Bilbao plane

Bilbao - Oporto car rental. Driving to San Sebastian, etc...

Oporto - Madrid plane.

Madrid - US

 

If you want to visit Toledo you can always do that when you are in Madrid, before of after your cruises.

 

If you don't want to visit Madrid, you can also fly directly to Barcelona from the US.

We do plan to do a one-way car rental. However, we will probably drop it off Porto where we pick up the Douro River cruise. After the Douro River cruise which ends in Porto, we will pick up another car and spend about a week driving around Portugal ending up in Lisbon from whence we fly home. The whole trip will be about 5+ weeks from 1 October to 8 November and my wife says that she does not want to make it any longer.

This means that we will have to give up Madrid but we will be visiting 2 large cities - Barcelona and Lisbon and we do want to spend time outside of cities. You just can't see 2 whole countries in 5+ weeks and we want to have a trip that is not too much rushing around. I tend to try to see too much in one trip and not giving ourselves time to stop and see things that we hadn't planned to see. This happened on out last trip to England and I was forced to drive past a steam tractor fair without stopping which broke my heart.

DON

Be aware that renting a car in Europe can be very expensive when you cross the border of another country. I researched rending a car in Madrid and driving to Lisbon, the cost was prohibitive.

With respect, I disagree with regard to Segovia and Toledo. The first guidebook that I read years ago about Spain stated that if you only see two cities in Spain, go to Toledo and Seville. Segovia has more than the aqueduct.

 

It may be that your overall plan may skip those cities on this trip. Your planned itinerary goes to the far north of Spain and then to the center, which is a lot of driving. I suggest planning a more economical drive.

Having travelled around Spain many times, I strongly disagree. I love Seville, I could agree on that. But that of course depends on what you want to see and your personal opinions.

The funny thing about Americans Asians etc visiting Spain is that they want to visit the "typical" old-Spanish experience, with flamenco, bullfighting and everything. Europeans on the other hand know how really modern Spain is like and do not need to have that experience anymore, for they know it's mostly fake nowadays.

Donald, I honestly think it's a shame you don't visit Madrid if you spend 5 weeks in Spain. Not even for a day? Madrid has some of the most important museums of the world, and is a vibrant city.

I don't know. At this point I recommend that you visit what you feel like visiting, and find the best and easiest way to do so.

If I were you I would do the northern route from Bilbao to Porto, and after your Douro cruise, visit the southern part of Spain: Seville, Cordoba, Granada, Toledo also... If you don't feel like driving, there's high speed train to those places from Madrid.

Whatever you do, have fun!

Having travelled around Spain many times, I strongly disagree. I love Seville, I could agree on that. But that of course depends on what you want to see and your personal opinions.

 

The funny thing about Americans Asians etc visiting Spain is that they want to visit the "typical" old-Spanish experience, with flamenco, bullfighting and everything. Europeans on the other hand know how really modern Spain is like and do not need to have that experience anymore, for they know it's mostly fake nowadays.

 

Donald, I honestly think it's a shame you don't visit Madrid if you spend 5 weeks in Spain. Not even for a day? Madrid has some of the most important museums of the world, and is a vibrant city.

 

I don't know. At this point I recommend that you visit what you feel like visiting, and find the best and easiest way to do so.

 

If I were you I would do the northern route from Bilbao to Porto, and after your Douro cruise, visit the southern part of Spain: Seville, Cordoba, Granada, Toledo also... If you don't feel like driving, there's high speed train to those places from Madrid.

 

Whatever you do, have fun!

Totally agree with you if only I had 5 weeks. But unfortunately, we only have 10 free days in Spain between out 2 cruises. We do stop in Palma de Mallorca, Cartagena, Seville, and Malaga (2 nights on the cruise) but as I said, I only have 10 days on my own between my 2 cruises.

DON

We will not be a critic since so much depends on personal preference. We would probably not opt for 3 nights in San Sebastian but might limit it to only 2 (this is actually what we did). What we will recommend is that you take a good look at the Spanish Paradors http://www.parador.es/en which are quasi governmental hotels...some of which are quite fantastic...and others of which are ordinary. And probably the most popular Parador (and one of the best) in all of Spain is the Parador of Granada which is actually located inside the very famous Alhambra. Getting a reservation in this Parador is not easy but it is worth booking.

Hank

Has anyone done any of those Viator Andalusian (Malaga, Cadiz) tours which visit Bull Breeding, Horse Farms Plus a little tapas?