Longer Flights: Europe to Australia??

From the West Australia/WA Today and other Fairfax newspaper this afternoon, they have this headline: "Australia to Europe non-stop flights? They're just around the corner" with these highlights: "Despite Qantas’s long-cherished ambition to become the first airline to operate the world’s longest non-stop air route between Australia and Europe, it is expected to be beaten to the prize in the next three years by the world’s fastest-growing carrier, Turkish Airlines. They will launch its first service to Sydney in 2014. The longest commercial air service in the world is Singapore Airlines’ six-days-a-week service from Singapore to New York Newark airport 8285 nautical miles away, which takes just under 19 hours. Next longest is Qantas' Sydney-Dallas flights. Istanbul-Sydney is 8076 nautical miles. The advantage for Australians heading to Europe is that Turkish Airlines’ base in Istanbul is within easy Boeing 737/Airbus A320 range of every European city. The carrier has around 50 cities in its European network, which would put even more Euro destinations within one stop of Sydney when the non-stop goes online in two or three years. Qantas is still working with Boeing to develop a version of the 777 that can fly an economical payload of passengers on the route in a regular commercial service taking as little as 19 hours from Heathrow to Sydney. In the meantime, Qantas operate the world’s longest Boeing 747-400 non-stop service daily from Sydney to Dallas, USA, 7454 nautical miles away, although the return service operates via Brisbane because westerly headwinds put Sydney beyond the plane’s range."

In preparing for our early 2014 cruise from Sydney to Auckland, many are not happy on the long flight times. But, it seems that we should not complain too much from parts of the U.S.!! Most of us do not have to fly London to Sydney in 19-20 hours. From our great experiences in Europe doing cruises there and connecting with great people from Austria, this article gives a better appreciation for this long flight distances/challenges.

Full story at:

http://www.watoday.com.au/travel/blogs/travellers-check/australia-to-europe-nonstop-flights-theyre-just-around-the-corner-20130603-2nkyf.html

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Celebrity Solstice Visual Highlights? From our June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in France, Italy, Kotor and Dubrovnik, I have pull together a number of wonderful visuals of the Solstice, its features, food, entertainment, options, etc. We are now at 6,501 views for this shorter version of my larger full review of that cruise and all of the port pictures/details. Check these postings and added info at:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1803477

There was a long discussion of this issue on the Herald yesterday and the general consensus was that, if you have to fly economy, there is no great advantage to being able to fly direct to Istanbul. Except if that is your destination.

Most people, myself included, prefer to have a break, and Singapore was the preferred place to take it.

Re the travel times we need to endure, to a fair extent we get used to it. I have just been reading a discussion of the tourist number rankings from around the world. What surprised me was that hardly anyone seems to realise that the distance from Europe and Nth America is a major deterant to many potential tourists. Everyone is blaming our prices (product of the high dollar), which are of course, a factor. The posters, on the whole, seem oblivious to the fact that many of the countries in the northern hemisphere are also still in recession and that one does not usually embark on a long and expensive trip when one is unemployed or worried about so becoming!!

We were very amused the past few years in Italy (we speak Italian) when every second person opened conversations with "how many hours is the flight?" The thought of being in discomfort for that long horrified them.

"Australia to Europe non-stop flights? They're just around the corner"

And I'll believe its viability when it's been running for four consecutive seasons.

One 20-hour non-stop flight uses a great deal more fuel than two 10-hour flights. At current fuel prices, that could easily wreck the economics of a route. I'm not sure that TK's new aircraft will offer so much of an advantage over current equipment that such a route would be viable in the long term.

But hey, any publicity is good publicity, right?

The bit about putting European destinations within one stop of Sydney is a real "So what?" point. Through Dubai, most of the important European destinations are already within one stop of Sydney - but with both flights on widebodies. That's one of EK's network strengths for Australia-originating passengers.

There was a long discussion of this issue on the Herald yesterday and the general consensus was that, if you have to fly economy, there is no great advantage to being able to fly direct to Istanbul. Except if that is your destination. Most people, myself included, prefer to have a break, and Singapore was the preferred place to take it. Re the travel times we need to endure, to a fair extent we get used to it. I have just been reading a discussion of the tourist number rankings from around the world. What surprised me was that hardly anyone seems to realise that the distance from Europe and Nth America is a major deterant to many potential tourists. Everyone is blaming our prices (product of the high dollar), which are of course, a factor. The posters, on the whole, seem oblivious to the fact that many of the countries in the northern hemisphere are also still in recession and that one does not usually embark on a long and expensive trip when one is unemployed or worried about so becoming!! We were very amused the past few years in Italy (we speak Italian) when every second person opened conversations with "how many hours is the flight?" The thought of being in discomfort for that long horrified them.

Like and appreciate your added background and insights. Very helpful and smart. For us, we will be doing stop-overs in Hawaii on the way home to break up that long, long flight back in early Feb., plus stopping there on the down in early Jan. 2014. Having Hawaii is a nice, double bonus along with both countries down under in one trip.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Did a June 7-19, Celebrity Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 131,909 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

I'll believe it when I see it. And I'll believe its viability when it's been running for four consecutive seasons. One 20-hour non-stop flight uses a great deal more fuel than two 10-hour flights. At current fuel prices, that could easily wreck the economics of a route. I'm not sure that TK's new aircraft will offer so much of an advantage over current equipment that such a route would be viable in the long term. But hey, any publicity is good publicity, right? The bit about putting European destinations within one stop of Sydney is a real "So what?" point. Through Dubai, most of the important European destinations are already within one stop of Sydney - but with both flights on widebodies. That's one of EK's network strengths for Australia-originating passengers.

More good, interesting thoughts, questions!! So appreciate your added background and insights from our wise London poster.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Did a June 7-19, Celebrity Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 131,909 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

There was a long discussion of this issue on the Herald yesterday and the general consensus was that, if you have to fly economy, there is no great advantage to being able to fly direct to Istanbul. Except if that is your destination.

Most people, myself included, prefer to have a break, and Singapore was the preferred place to take it.

Re the travel times we need to endure, to a fair extent we get used to it. I have just been reading a discussion of the tourist number rankings from around the world. What surprised me was that hardly anyone seems to realise that the distance from Europe and Nth America is a major deterant to many potential tourists. Everyone is blaming our prices (product of the high dollar), which are of course, a factor. The posters, on the whole, seem oblivious to the fact that many of the countries in the northern hemisphere are also still in recession and that one does not usually embark on a long and expensive trip when one is unemployed or worried about so becoming!!

We were very amused the past few years in Italy (we speak Italian) when every second person opened conversations with "how many hours is the flight?" The thought of being in discomfort for that long horrified them.

I think you have hit it on the nail here. I know from my own family members that they look like they are doing well enough but housing has gone up (rentals)or at least the raises that people were counting on to make housing loans less painful have not happened. Add to that furloughs or days off without pay (10 days pay lost == now you have the time but no money:eek:) is a major factor. Americans now are some of the least likely to take earned vacation days (and we get less vacation days to start with) because they don't want to look like slackers according to Washington Post. People know their job can vanish. Another huge factor -- people way over spent and used credit cards way too much in the "good times" and now all those bills must be paid and most smart people are trying to live within their means.

I am planning a trip to NZ and I am using as many tricks as 50 years of traveling can provide to be able to afford this trip. Staying 4 star or less when normally would be 4 star or more. Economy instead of Economy +. Not complaining just saying that I'm always aware of the cost of travel but I am a little more aware this trip as the cost is going to double some of our other trips (which were expensive:eek:)

Yes I think that the high dollar of NZ and Australia plus the long and costly trip plus the competition of some lovely Asian and South American places that have lesser costs (and local economy pays much less) and luxury comes fairly cheap probably is lowering the tourist ratings for the two countries. With all that said I loved Australia and I am super excited about NZ.

Yes, Even though we have not had a recession here for twenty years, many people borrowed a lot of money prior to the GFC, very often for investment housing. Although the default rate on loans has continued to be low, we are still seeing a great deal of money being used to pay down debts as a precaution. With instant communication about the outside world, we still feel vulnerable.

We have to persuade our tourists that Australia is worth the effort. Glad you did enjoy it.

New Zealand is a very special place and it is really really worth the effort!

We flew Sydney to London return via Singapore. We used frequent flyer points and booked premium economy seats. On the Singapore to London leg we were upgraded to business class flat beds which were wonderful.

We had a three hour flight to Christchurch and my dh was horrified at the difference and can't imagine doing a 23 hr flight in economy.

My sister and B-I-L frequently travel Sydney to London & they choose to fly economy but get a really good hotel at the other end to recover. Neither of us have done stop overs preferring to spend extra time at our main destination.

I don't think a non stop flight would make as much difference to me as flying premium economy. I know the mid flight stop is an extra hassle but it is good to stretch your legs and go for a walk.