Queen Mary/Queen Vic Medical facilities

My parents are scheduled to leave on the Queen Mary from NYC to Southhampton on Jan 3rd, then they are going to switch to the Queen Victoria and return to NYC. My father has been having some trouble with balance and walking and I am concerned that he may fall on the ship. He uses a walker but has fallen several times lately (without being seriously hurt).

They cruise a lot, and just recently returned from a back to back in the Caribbean, however his parkinsons seems to be getting worse, and I am concerned that my mother won't be able to get him up if he falls...twice in the last two weeks she had called my brother to assist her.

My question is: How are the medical facilities, and if he were to break a bone while they are in the middle of the atlantic would they be able to take care of him?

They have paid for the trip in full, and if they cancel right now they won't get any money back. My mother wants to go and thinks that she can handle whatever may arise.

Any advice or suggestions?

You really have a difficult situation. Having spent a lot of time during the last decade taking care of elderly relatives, I can certainly sympathize with your concerns. Your post brings up a lot of complex issues. You mention that if your parents cancel their cruise, they will lose their money. Do they have travel insurance? If so, why would the insurance not pay if they canceled? If not, do they have insurance to cover medical issues that might arise during the cruise? Best wishes in helping your parents make the best decision about their upcoming voyages.

For a start, your parents may not realize that Medicare pays nothing for medical care while ships are more than just a few miles from a US Port. The cost of the cruises will be far less than the cost of the medical care given on board if an emergency comes up.

Yes, these 2 ships have fine medical facilities, but they can't do everything and it is costly to use their services. Extremely costly.

Do your parents have travel medical insurance and travel evacuation insurance?

It is also possible that if your father appears to be too frail when they attempt to board the first segment of their cruises in New York that he may be denied boarding.

He also may be informed when arriving in Southampton that he will not be allowed to make the return journey if anything major happens while he is onboard the ship headed eastward.

Without travel medical insurance, his bills in the UK if needs be can be HUGE.

We traveled with elderly family members until Holland America informed us that my late mother-in-law would no longer be allowed to travel on one of their ships.

My husband and I had been cruising with the elders as aids/caretakers/ luggage carriers and etc but we were not enough to satisfy HAL.

I am very sorry that you are having to go through all this, but it is time for you to step in and to attempt to make your parents see reason and logic.

Penny makes many good points. We traveled on QM2 Maiden Voyage with elderly parents and our Mother's travel friend became ill. I believe he was the first overnight resident of QM2s medical facility. The facility is excellent and the staff is first rate but, as has been mentioned, in this day and age, insurance is the key. He had excellent insurance and most all was covered and it happened prior to arrival back in the US. Unfortunately, it is an issue to be considered.

My late mother-in-law's bills in the medical facility on an HAL were large and she insisted that Medicare would pay for it all. Medicare would not and the ship demanded that she pay in full before being allowed to leave the ship.

To settle the matter we paid her medical bill and kept quiet about doing so as she was not a woman to argue with. The paid medical bill was in her final billing print out so she found out anyway. The cost of her on board medical care was much more than the cost of her cruise.

She attempted to file for Medcare and supplement payment but was turned down 100%. When she saw her own physician she was told that her care was 'OK'.

I suppose that we could have attempted to cruise with a totally different company but she never felt well enough to try and we didn't encourage her to do so.

PARTIAL QUOTE

...My question is: How are the medical facilities, and if he were to break a bone while they are in the middle of the atlantic would they be able to take care of him?...

In answer to your question: My understanding is that a broken bone can be treated (or at least stablized) in the middle of the Atlantic.

But I believe, based on the rest of your post, that your question is more complex. Perhaps you might wish to re-visit your question as it might help to define the situation (not for us, but rather for your family)?

Best wishes,

Salacia

Thank you for all of your replies. They do not have trip or medical insurance for the trip. (I know that most people on these boards will blast them for that, but there is nothing that I can do about the insurance issue now)

My three brothers are all coming into town for Christmas and we are going to spend a couple of hours the day after Christmas (when the other 30 extended family members are not present) discussing what we think mom and dad should do. They love to cruise, and have spent over 400 days at sea in the last 10 years....I know that it is really sad for my mom to think that she won't be able to cruise with him anymore. We also have a doctors appointment for my dad coming up next week where I want to address the issue with his doctor.

I really don't think that they will make the trip, but I wanted to get some advise from my friends here on cruise critic. It is so hard to have to go from being the "kid" to being the "parent" with your parents.

What an interesting question and one that really needs to be thought through before making any type of reservation.

Travel insurance is NOT cheap and the really frustrating thing is that honesty has to be the best policy. If we have ongoing medical conditions then we have to declare them.

If our medical condition has deteriorated since agreeing the terms of the travel insurance... We have to declare it.

The instant we declare these conditions, we get penalised. I had one travel insurance company agree to insure me but NOT for my ongoing medical condition?? That was not good enough for me, or for Cunard.

I had another quote to which I had answered all the questions truthfully but the questions asked did not cover my condition and as soon as I clarified the quote, I had to pay a premium.

I am positive the medical staff aboard any Cunard ship are well trained and extremely professional but I do not think they are employees who are paid by Cunard\Carnival Group??? I am of the opinion that the charges they make are the source of their income which would explain why the charges are so costly.

We have had the Queen Mary come into Torbay to off load a casualty that had fallen and broken her hip. Someone has to pay for this, someone will have to pay for this evacuation along with the costs of the boat plus doctor that came out on that boat to treat this casualty.

If I were you I would have a chat with your parents and make sure they have travel insurance and if they have, ensure they have declared everything that is asked. It might be expensive, but that is all relative to what the costs might be if the worse were to happen??

Good luck and fingers crossed it all works out.

Winter crossings of the Atlantic can be interesting and perhaps this time of year might not be the most comfortable of journeys for anyone that might be less than stable.

Last night after I finished the above posts, I talked with my husband to refresh my memory on our experiences traveling with his elderly folks. The hard lesson that we all learned is what Medicare and various supplements cover, military retirement medical etc.

We found the medical care on several different cruise lines to be kind, considerate and at least average in quality but there are some medical situations that cannot be treated on ships most especially mid-ocean. Obviously CPR can't be done for long periods of time.

We were heavily stonewalled by the elders about what insurance they had or did not have until we started taking care of everything for them from insurance to life care decisions.

It is far from easy!

Our best wishes to all those who are going through this process with elders in their family. It is hard to go from 'kid' to decision maker and it may be more complicated with siblings.

Now that my husband and I are 'elders' and are both on Medicare, we likely over compensate by purchasing much travel and medical evacuation insurance. We travel a great deal and have an annual policy for medical evacuation. We want to make it all as easy as possible for the younger members of our family as we don't want anyone to go through with us what we did with our own parents.

As others have said, this is a very informative discussion. I'm not sure if it is Dave or Diane who is posting about your parents. It seems you are trying to get as much information as you can to help your parents make a smart decision. Involving the doctor and your brothers is a wise plan. None of us ever want to think about the time when our cruising days may be over. If your parents have cruised for 400 days without having any problems and without having insurance, then losing the cost of this voyage would not be a major concern. To me the lost money is the least important issue. Others have posted so many things that should impact your decision. If you father fell or became seriously ill on the voyage from New York to Southampton, as Penny has pointed out, they would probably not be allowed to continue on the QV. That would mean that your mother would be responsible for getting him home from the UK. Someone (your mother, one of the children or their travel agent) would have to purchase last minute airline tickets and would have to arrange transportation from the ship to the airport. I would think that having to leave the ship and make other arrangements to get home would be physically and mentally exhausting for your mother. And this is assuming he could fly home at that point. As you say, becoming the "parent" to elderly parents is always a difficult step. If they decide to take this cruise, I hope they have a wonderful time with no problems. Do come back and let us know what your parents decided to do. My very best wishes to you and your parents.

Beth, you are very wise!

We traveled last spring on a river boat cruise in the USA. Many of the passengers were older folks who no long felt it was reasonable to cruise far from home.

There were no medical facilities on board, no MD etc but the boat docked every night at a town so help wasn't terribly far away.

There are alternatives for those who can't do the big trips any longer.

Yes information gathering is critical. Most folks do not realize that Medicare coverage has limitations and there are no exceptions given.

If he were to use a rented wheelchair for both trips, that would eliminate the risk of falling and the chair could be stored in the cabin overnight.

You sound like a very caring, considerate 'child' ;) that is only interested in looking after the welfare of their parents and for that I salute you.

PLEASE, please however do not believe for one minute that the medical staff on any cruise ship are a charitable organisation. These modern ships have EXCELLENT, first class medical centres and the doctors are not first year students that could only care for the most basic of ailments. That is far from the truth and I would be perfectly happy to entrust my well being to these folks.

What we are talking about is MONEY.... These folks quite rightly demand a fair income for their skills and this is recovered from their patients or travel insurance companies and by crikey this is where problems will arise.

If we claim through our travel insurance, the first thing they will require is a detailed claim from the ship. If the injury is attributed even in a small part to an ongoing illness, then unless this has been declared, the insurance company will NOT pay out. They are not interested in excuses, they are not interested in pleas about how 'We thought we were covered' The insurance company will simply draw our attention to their small print and say polite words which equate to 'Tough luck!

When I filled out my travel insurance form there was a question which asked, "Have I been treated by, or seen a medical practitioner in the last two years?'

I answered 'No' as that is the truth but I have a long term medical condition which is ongoing. I could have kept quiet about this but I have heard so many stories about customers on numerous types of holidays all having medical claims turned down for failing to declare their medical condition at the time of completing the application form.

If your parents are 100% happy that thyey are both covered then it might be wise to politely ask them to check 'Just for your peace of mind' Far better for your parents to be angry with you rather than face a bill for possibly tens of thousands of dollars.

glojo, very wise!

My late mother-in-laws last cruise was a reasonably priced HAL 7 day cruise. The cost of her medical expenses was more than the cost of the cruise. My husband and I can't recall the exact amount but it was no chump change.

He put the medical charges on his credit card as his mother flat refused to pay them. "Let Medicare pay" was all she would say. Medicare paid ZERO.

The MD talked with MIL and my husband about her future travel plans and was very kind. He felt that her days of cruising needed to be over.

That we could travel with the elders in their later years, made cruising possible for them and we had many good trips. We were on duty most of the time and made every effort to prevent falls, made decisions etc. We were tired when the cruise was over and each went back to work.

John, insurance and travel insurance varies some between the UK and the USA. I believe you purchase a yearly travel policy. While it is possible to purchase a yearly policy in the USA, it is not a common practice. Most of us purchase a policy for each voyage. The policies vary in what is covered. I have never been asked to make any declarations at the time of purchasing a policy. The big issue in the USA is "pre-existing issues". Some policies cover this and some do not. Most people in the USA over the age of 65 have Medicare. As Penny has pointed out, Medicare does not pay for any treatment outside of the USA. And the minute you step on a ship, you are considered outside of the USA. Most of those who are covered by Medicare, also have a supplemental policy. Some of those policies do cover travel outside of the USA. No matter what type of insurance you have, if you are treated in a medical facility on a ship, they will ask for payment before you leave the ship. Then it is up to you to file a claim with your insurance and get re-imbursed if the claim is paid.

Hi Beth,

I have NO idea of the intracies of how the insurance companies work be they annual or per holiday and all I am saying is that the medical staff are not employees of the cruise company and for ease of understanding they are self employed and earn their income by charging for their time.

They have set fees and these have to be paid and I am simply suggesting that we need to have our eyes wide open whenever we leave our shores.

We need to dot the 'i's and cross the 't's. It is our responsibility to ensure that if the worse were to happen we can pay, be that via an insurance claim or cash.

Being wise after an event is of no use whatsoever, far better to be overly cautious prior to taking any type of holiday.

Yes we also have insurance companies that do not ask for existing medical conditions but the ones I found would not cover any holiday longer than 60 days :(

Hello to you, too, John. And Merry Christmas. You have pointed out several things that are huge considerations when thinking about cruise insurance. You are so right about how expensive it could be to be treated on a ship. I think this is an excellent discussion and all points shared by all the posters have been helpful.

I have not cruised on Queen Mary 2, but I will recommend you notify Cunard about this prior to departure.

I also wanted to suggest a rented wheelchair.

I don't know if travel insurance policies in the USA are similar to the ones we have in Canada, but every policy I have taken out (and I now have an annual policy which is cheaper even if I leave the country only once a year) will cover pre-existing conditions with two qualifications. One: the condition must be disclosed if a questionnaire is required at the time of application of the policy. Two: the condition must be stable (by the insurance company's definition) for a certain period before the trip, usually six months but in some cases as little as 90 days. I know people with heart conditions or a previous cancer who are covered because they are stable for the required period.

Although the QM2 has excellent medical facilities, it does not have an operating theatre. The QE2 and all older liners that I have sailed in have had this facility. I'm not sure about the two smaller "queens" but I would be surprised if they did have one when the QM2 does not.

A couple of years ago I went with a group of passengers into the medical facility on the QM2. They have a CT scanner and up to the minute equipment. Not only do they operate, but in an emergency, when they were not close to port they repaired a cerebral aneurism onboard and will carry out dental work if necessary. This was the doctor/surgeon who was on duty at the time who told us this. The RN's all have ICU or ER experience.

As for medical/cancellation insurance, I hate paying for it and even though I don't have medical problems I am nervous as it has come to light in Canada recently [Marketplace for David Mississauga] that some insurance companies are looking for any excuse not to pay out claims e.g. "You had an EKG/ECG before you went on vacation" "Yes I did, nothing showed" " If you read the contract we are not responsible for pre existing conditions whether you are aware of them or not". It defies logic, but at the end of this investigation they still hadnot paid out to this unfortunate woman who was left with a huge bill for out of country treatment in Florida, as well as the worry of her new found bad health.

Concerning cancellation due to non medicall reasons, I was unable to travel to Salem, Mass. a few months ago to due Storm Sandy. I was unable to successfully claim from my insurance company as MY country of residence had not issued a travel advisory for that area. The flights to Boston were cancelled so the the airline took care of that in an honourable way, the B + B refused any compensation, just a "tough luck" attitude and this wasn't just a deposit, it was the full amount for 2 people for 3 nights. Buyer beware seems to mean have a lawyer look at the insurance documents before you travel.

It's difficult for anyone else to suggest what you should do. I work in the medical field and see a lot of falls on a daily basis. Most turn out to be minor "bumps" however the potential as we all get old for something very bad to happen increases every day. Even with the best medical facilities bad luck can be all it takes. The average fall occurs but someone hits their head on the way down and it becomes a life saving event.

It all comes down to your comfort level, and i certainly won't tell preach on what you should do. Enjoy your cruise and your parents!

This might be of interest http://www.beyondships.com/QM2-Camby-1.html

To quote in part from that website which is titled "Dealing with emergencies at sea"

" ...Queen Mary 2 has a large medical center with doctors and nurses. In fact, the ship has been

diverted in order to bring medical assistance to the sick and injured on other vessels. Why then

would the ship ever have to do a helicopter evacuation? “The facilities onboard are second to none

for a ship but they do not equate to some of the facilities that you have at a land-based hospital,

including the ability to operate. We don’t have an operating theater onboard. Some of the guests that

we have disembarked medically by helicopter needed surgery. That decision is often made between

the doctor and the captain, whoever is in command at the time.”

Wow, I have been overwhelmed by the responses and the discussion here on the board! I really appreciate the caring responses of all of my cruise critic friends.

I know that this trip being a TA makes it even harder for my dad to be able to disembark than if it was a cruise with a lot of port calls, and I guess that is what really has me worried. I know that if he gets sick or falls on the ship it could cost a lot of money, but what concerns me more is how he would get off and home if something happened in the middle of the Atlantic. Someone else also pointed out that the Atlantic in winter can be rough and make it even more unstable for my dad....I hadn't thought about that one.

I talked with my mom again yesterday and she is determined to go on this trip. Dad is really unsure of what they should do. I know that they will listen to my brothers and I in the end and do what we say...I am just not sure what that is going to be, and don't want to make that decision by myself (because I am close I am the one that has been going to doctors appointments with mom and dad and see them every day), but I think that once my brothers are here and see dad and how he gets around we will be able to make a decision together.

I really like the suggestion of a wheel chair rental. They have done that before, and IF they do go I will make sure that they get one.

Another point that I hadn't considered is that they could be refused boarding either in NYC or Southhampton. At what point do you think that would happen? I have been on a lot of cruises and have seen a lot of older people with limited mobility on board....do they have a standard like they do for pregnant women and the age of infants?

About 6 years ago I broke my foot while on a RCI ship. I got to see the medical facilities and how the staff works. My experience was OK, but not great by any means and I guess that also has me concerned. Mom and dad have visited the medical facilities on the ships for minor things and that has been just fine, I just don't want them to have to be there for anything major.

Thank you for all of you insites and comments, I will be sure to let you all know how it goes on Wednesday with my brothers and what my mom and dad end up doing.

Diane

Hi Diane,

I think we all understand your reasons for asking this interesting question and hopefully this link might explain what is involved when it comes to evacuating a patient

I am the guilty party regarding a winter crossing of the Atlantic BUT.... please bear in mind that the Queen Mary 2 is possibly one of the most stable of ships afloat. You will read posts regarding passengers experiencing all sorts of conditions aboard this ship but if your parents want to go on a cruise then if it were me I would try to encourage them to do so aboard this amazing liner.

All you can do is play devil's advocate and then step back, put on a brave smile and respect their decision.

Far better to enjoy life to the full as opposed to wrapping ourselves up in cotton wool and not venturing outside of our safe little nest ;);)