Booking an ADA Cabin

Because of my mobility issues we booked an ADA cabin on the Wonder. Having seen several posts on CC about needing to get a form signed by my doctor, I called Disney to get the form. Disney has revised treir rules and no longer requires the form. Just FYI

I've never known DCL insisting on this other than as a spot check.

No, a form has not been required at least since 2010. In 2009, it was.

In fact, I called DCL about this last week because one of my family members needs the HA cabin and there is a cruise that I've been trying to book for almost a year now. I specifically asked how they handle this--as in, can someone who doesn't need the HA cabin tie it up so someone who does need it can't get it? They said that they specifically ask whether you have a mobility issue requiring it at the time of booking and that they hope people will be honest. However, they are aware that on Caribbean cruises, some people try to get the HA cabins in order to have a place to store their scuba gear. They consider it a violation of the guest's privacy to ask for documentation. However, if they feel it is being abused, they CAN ask for documentation of the need, just not what the medical condition is.

No' date=' a form has not been required at least since 2010. In 2009, it was.

 

In fact, I called DCL about this last week because one of my family members needs the HA cabin and there is a cruise that I've been trying to book for almost a year now. I specifically asked how they handle this--as in, can someone who doesn't need the HA cabin tie it up so someone who does need it can't get it? They said that they specifically ask whether you have a mobility issue requiring it at the time of booking and that they hope people will be honest. However, they are aware that on Caribbean cruises, some people try to get the HA cabins in order to have a place to store their scuba gear. They consider it a violation of the guest's privacy to ask for documentation. However, if they feel it is being abused, they CAN ask for documentation of the need, just not what the medical condition is.[/quote']

 

Not only is it a violation of the guests privacy but it is against the law (ADA) to ask for documentation. This has come up on other boards in handicapped threads and also threads on service dogs. They also cannot ask for documentation for service animals.

 

They are also required under the ADA to leave accessible rooms open until the rest of the hotel is filled. Not sure they are doing this but that is the law.

This could all be circumvented by DCL having an independent doctor to who you provide evidence of disability to beforehand. No violation of your rights or privacy.

The ADA laws are a joke when they provide the ability of anyone who wishes to just state they have a disability, need, or they buy a service dog coat at say they are without question.

It is so open to abuse it is a joke and takes away those amenities meant for those that really needs it due to selfishness.

Since ships registered in the Bahamas do not need to abide by US labor laws, why should they abide by dumb US overprotective standards either?

And when the company is based in England!

ex techie

I think the issue comes in when someone wants an HA cabin who doesn't need it for a medical issue (like the guy who wanted space to store his scuba gear....)

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to get into whether the ship has to comply with US laws when in US ports. It obviously doesn't have to comply with US labor laws...it is Bahamian flagged and the parent company is registered in the UK. However, in most cases, they voluntarily comply with US laws.

The response that I got indicated that they depend on a guest's honesty.

Still hoping I can book my cruise....my mistake was being on board when the new dates were released a bit over a year ago...so I didn't get my usual day 1 booking. By day 3, no HA available per the onboard rebooking agent. I booked a cruise, but will cancel if no HA become available.

VERY conflicting info on wait list--at first I was told that we were waitlisted for an HA cabin. Later was told there's no such thing as a wait list. interesting. Still, I check regularly and have a TA checking as well.

EXACTLY!

I have a bad back from time to time (sciatica) and sometimes I cannot move for several hours or even a day without experiencing a large amount of pain, but I can still walk.

Now I can say to DCL I require that Stateroom even though the sciatica might only be every 6 months and very painful, but should I take place over your daughter who needs a wheelchair because the cruise line is too scared to ask or determine who needs it most with out us providing proof and them determining who needs it most?

The right to privacy is BS. The original campaigners did the right thing in making sure those with disabilities were catered for and not barred from a regular life, and then the scared crowed allowed them to dictate legislature that actually puts other people with a disability at a disadvantage over those that just because they say they have one and do not have to prove it.

Wrong wrong wrong.

ex techie

This could all be circumvented by DCL having an independent doctor to who you provide evidence of disability to beforehand. No violation of your rights or privacy.

 

The ADA laws are a joke when they provide the ability of anyone who wishes to just state they have a disability, need, or they buy a service dog coat at say they are without question.

It is so open to abuse it is a joke and takes away those amenities meant for those that really needs it due to selfishness.

 

Since ships registered in the Bahamas do not need to abide by US labor laws, why should they abide by dumb US overprotective standards either?

And when the company is based in England!

 

ex techie

Sorry, but that is illegal and they do have to abide by US laws when they are sailing out of US ports.

Sorry, but that is illegal and they do have to abide by US laws when they are sailing out of US ports.

What about US labor laws then?

Why do they not apply?

ex techie

EXACTLY!

 

I have a bad back from time to time (sciatica) and sometimes I cannot move for several hours or even a day without experiencing a large amount of pain, but I can still walk.

 

Now I can say to DCL I require that Stateroom even though the sciatica might only be every 6 months and very painful, but should I take place over your daughter who needs a wheelchair because the cruise line is too scared to ask or determine who needs it most with out us providing proof and them determining who needs it most?

 

The right to privacy is BS. The original campaigners did the right thing in making sure those with disabilities were catered for and not barred from a regular life, and then the scared crowed allowed them to dictate legislature that actually puts other people with a disability at a disadvantage over those that just because they say they have one and do not have to prove it.

 

Wrong wrong wrong.

 

ex techie

It may be morally wrong but you have to understand that is the law. Is it abused, yes, particularly with service animals. It is not a matter of the cruise line being scared but there are criminal penalties involved for both the cruise line and the individuals involved.

What about US labor laws then?

Why do they not apply?

 

ex techie

Not going to argue about it, the cruise lines all follow ADA laws, of that there is not a question. Just providing you with information so you understand the ADA law.

Service animals gets into a whole additional thing. It is something we have been researching but haven't done yet.

It seems that they can ask what the dog does for you, but not why you need the dog. And DCL did make some changes in animal rules--they now accept only REAL service animals, not "emotional support" animals after a dog snapped at another guest. And they were talking about limiting service animals to dogs...I don't know if that ever happened.

Again, I'm not an expert in this area. My experience is that we used to do volunteer work with guide dog training, assisted at some AFB conventions, and never thought we would be considering a dog for mobility/balance issues. Life has strange twists.

Not going to argue about it, the cruise lines all follow ADA laws, of that there is not a question. Just providing you with information so you understand the ADA law.

Who is arguing? I understand the ADA law, and I said I disagreed with it and what I feel are the flaws in it.

I am providing and am again asking you with a counter question, it's not arguing!

Why should someone with a disability be afforded the same rights as an able bodied person from the US by law, but yet someone who works on the ship not be afforded the same right to earn the same wage, time between work shifts

as someone in the US on land?

ex techie

Service animals gets into a whole additional thing. It is something we have been researching but haven't done yet.

 

It seems that they can ask what the dog does for you' date=' but not why you need the dog. And DCL did make some changes in animal rules--they now accept only REAL service animals, not "emotional support" animals after a dog snapped at another guest. And they were talking about limiting service animals to dogs...I don't know if that ever happened.

 

Again, I'm not an expert in this area. My experience is that we used to do volunteer work with guide dog training, assisted at some AFB conventions, and never thought we would be considering a dog for mobility/balance issues. Life has strange twists.[/quote']

 

Excellent discussion on this on the Celebrity board from a couple of months ago, apparently the couple involved has been on several different cruise lines.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2147266&highlight=service+animal

What about US labor laws then?

Why do they not apply?

 

ex techie

Due to international treaties which the US is a part of. Same reason certain workers in the US aren't required to pay state or Federal income tax on their earnings here.

Who is arguing? I understand the ADA law, and I said I disagreed with it and what I feel are the flaws in it.

 

I am providing and am again asking you with a counter question, it's not arguing!

 

Why should someone with a disability be afforded the same rights as an able bodied person from the US by law, but yet someone who works on the ship not be afforded the same right to earn the same wage, time between work shifts

as someone in the US on land?

 

ex techie

In Spector v. Norwegian Cruise Line, The United States Supreme Court held that Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (the “ADA”) applies to foreign-flag cruise ships in American waters insofar as the requirements of Title III do not interfere with the internal order of the cruise ships.

Additionally, the Court held that the provision of the ADA requiring barrier removal, which is “readily achievable” does not apply if the removal would bring a ship into noncompliance with international legal obligations

So once the ship leaves American waters and enters international waters, the ADA does not need to be complied with then?

ex techie

So once the ship leaves American waters and enters international waters, the ADA does not need to be complied with then?

 

ex techie

The US government can refuse a ship the ability to port in the US if it doesn't comply with any number of directives which range from health and safety to casino operations. I don't know if ADA is one of them, but it would be surprising if it isn't.

The US government can refuse a ship the ability to port in the US if it doesn't comply with any number of directives which range from health and safety to casino operations. I don't know if ADA is one of them, but it would be surprising if it isn't.

I know, but is it?!

ex techie

If the ADA is really meant to protect the rights of disabled people, then why leave a loophole big enough to sail an Oasis class ship thru by having legalisation that states you do not need to provide evidence why you need it?

The evidence doesn't have to mention specifics, just that you are medically certified as needing one.

I wonder if DCL have to abide by both US and British laws when doing a TA? Or are the British government not so arrogant as to impose their own rules and regulations on a ship not registered in their country nor the company based there?

Does anyone know about when RCI are home porting in the UK and sailing the Med or P&O when sailing from Australian ports? DO they still adopt the ADA for those cruises?

ex techie

There is not a lot of difference between the British disability laws and the US laws. The biggest "non-difference" we've found is that both grandfather existing structures unless they undergo major renovations. The problem is that in the UK, MOST of the buildings are old and a lot are therefore grandfathered while in the US most buildings except private homes are accessible by virtue of being either newer construction or remodeled.

As to the ships....I don't know what caused the change between our 2009 cruise and one a year later. In 2009, a guest requesting an HA room did have to submit documentation stating that it was necessary. It didn't have to say why, just that it was needed. We were told that once the documentation had been done for a given individual, it would be noted in their file and would not need to be repeated in future cruises. I don't know what was considered acceptable, but my friend submitted a doctor's note when she cruised with us. And then in 2010, they quit asking for any proof of need.

And they did the exact thing they shouldn't have.

If the cruise lines all sat down, met together, and agreed that you should have to provide medical documentation as to why you need that Stateroom then these bastards that abuse the system would be stopped and the US government is not going to deny every cruise ship that agrees to not dock in a US port.

Instead there is legislation that is designed to protect the rights of disabled people that need and should rightly so be accommodated but open the doors to abuse.

Service dogs are rightly accommodated. Those miniature horses.... I'm still not onboard with them in a MDR.

ex techie

FYI--ONLY DOGS are included under the ADA. There is no inclusion for horses or monkeys. The law only addresses SERVICE dogs and not emotional support animals of any type, including dogs.

And they did the exact thing they shouldn't have.

 

If the cruise lines all sat down, met together, and agreed that you should have to provide medical documentation as to why you need that Stateroom then these bastards that abuse the system would be stopped and the US government is not going to deny every cruise ship that agrees to not dock in a US port.

 

Instead there is legislation that is designed to protect the rights of disabled people that need and should rightly so be accommodated but open the doors to abuse.

Service dogs are rightly accommodated. Those miniature horses.... I'm still not onboard with them in a MDR.

 

 

ex techie

I'm sorry but why should my mother have to supply personal, medical information to a cruiseline to secure her accessible cabin?

The first time we sailed with DCL, we had to have the form signed by the doctor (cost us $10 for that signature). The next times we've sailed with DCL, Carnival, Royal and Celebrity, we've just been able to check a box on the website that says we need an accessible cabin and then complete a form that says what medical devices we're bringing and what their dimensions are.

Why would I want a cruiseline employee to have the final say if my mother is disabled "enough" to qualify for an accessible cabin?

Yes, it sucks that there are dishonest people out there who abuse the system but why make the system harder and make people who are disabled, jump through hoops just to get a cabin.

Perhaps everyone should have to fill out the form and get the doctor's signature saying they're not disabled, to be assigned a regular stateroom?

Personally I think the cruise line should ask two questions.

1. Do you have a disability?

2. What type of accommodation do you need?

Then apply that need across the entire cruise. In other words if they claim they need a shower bench they can't suddenly be able bodied enough to take a zip line excursion.