dive accident in St Maarten

I will be there in St Maarten in a few weeks, I have heard a dive a accident occured two days ago with "Dive Safaris" who is te operator for Carnival Cuise. It looks it is not the first accident they had, does anybody knows another dive operator in ST Maarten ?

I guess you were referring to this article in the St Maarten Newspaper

http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/j095/tourist095.html

I guess you were referring to this article in the St Maarten Newspaper

 

http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/j095/tourist095.html

Gee,

I feel sorry for the family but what happened to buddy protocol? According to the article, the victim signaled to surface but his buddy stayed down. I hope it turns out not to be a case of rapid ascent as his buddy may have been able to monitor or assist him in slowing down if that were the case.

r

Gosh, how sad....And what happened to the buddy policy?? It just reminds us how important that is.... I was on a dive months ago with 2 others... The 1 very experienced diver didn't even care to look for our 3rd buddy when she disappeared... He wouldn't go up... Then I stayed not wanting all 3 of us loose in the water and when I got low on air and he wasn't, he wanted to send me up on my own..... I never dove with him again.... unbelieveable.......

Yes, it was this accident, actually, I found another article about an accident in December with the same dive shop :

http://www.cdnn.info/news/safety/s060906.html

& http://www.cdnn.info/news/safety/s051223.html

It looks a little bit frightening ??

And the borther stayed down on his own???? I dont go ANYWHERE without my buddy...

Thats sad.... very very sad... cus a vacation turned tragic..

I sure would like to know more facts about this accident before critiquing it but....

In my opinion Buddy diving is no doubt great, BUT usually one of the partners ends up lacking in the real skills needed by every diver to survive a real problem relying way too much on their dive Buddy. When you dive on the east coast - cold, deep wrecks or other technical dives you learn the skills that will save your life and the lives of other divers. It is highly recommended not to dive with someone you love or would die for because when they panic both divers end up in trouble or dead. That said I am also very troubled why anyone would not safely assend with some other diver (buddy or not) signaling that they are in any kind of trouble. Surly there is more to this story than we know.

It took a lot to finally convince my main dive buddy (my wife of 27 years) that she needed the skills to get herself and me or any one else out of a problem just as she relied on me for these same skills. However now she is a very competent diver with a really good knowlege of diving and safety.

There is usually nothing the operator or any body can do when something goes really wrong unless they are almost touching each other, as we all know it can take a LOT of effort to reach someone just a short distance away in any kind of current. Also often when a diver panics and starts for the surface it can be suicidal to try to stop them. Accidents happen no doubt but when someone dies diving panic is almost always a big contributor.

My hope is that divers learn that we often need more training, practice and a better comfort level than we have - before the accident.

Here is a link to an article about that diving death. At the bottom is a link to St. Maarten dive operators and there are ratings next to each operator's name. Dive Safari is the lowest rated. Hope this helps. I haven't dove St. Maarten myself so I can't recommend based on personal experience.

http://www.cdnn.info/news/safety/s060906.html

Wow- that is so unfortunate! Such a waste. I have a timeshare in St. Maartin, and we do quite a bit of diving there and at Saba. We use Dive Safari's all the time, and have nothing but good things to say about them- except for the stupid shark feeding- that is audatious. Over time, we have dove with most all the dive outfits in St. Maartin, and the list leader- Aqua Divers, was actually the least safe of all of them in our opinion. We used them when DS were all full and I will say- I will never dive with them again- the rental equipment was full of holes, the dive belt was so badly worn, the guy next to us ended up aborting his dive because the belt wouldn't stay locked and kept wanting to slide off, the regs were all leaky, and the worst thing, we had to yell at the driver because 1- he started the engine with people in the water, then 2. He almost left two divers behind! I was very glad that we had our own equipment, but we were questioning the tanks- I took one back when it "tasted funny" and another back when the nitrox was incorrectly mixed to 62% oxygen instead of 32%- thank god I analyzed. Those kind of mistakes are not to be ignored. DS is the biggest on the island, it is now the carnival excursion dive center, and they run the most people through their shop- expecially with the cruises (please don't flame me for this), a lot of them really don't belong in the water- we were on a boat with a bunch of cruisers diving and not one of them had been in the water in the last two years- excuse me- ever hear of a "refresher course"? I had to help one put his reg on his tank and I said something to Ed and safety concience as he was, he ate the cost and put another DM on the boat to watch over theses knuckleheads- scary!!!!

Anyway, alot of cruisers don't dive much, see the excursion, and think because they have a 10yo dive cert, they can dive, and guess what- they get hurt. I think if you pull up the safety records of all the outfits that serve the cruise ships, you will see their accident rates are higher than average. Most people who go on "dive trips" are up to date- they dive on a regular basis (not all, but most that I have met diving that are into traveling to do dive), but the cruisers are less likely to be "regular divers". One guy I met waiting in line we got to chatting about diving, hadn't dove in 15 years and was looking forward to diving- I nicely told him his cert should be updated and he sat and argued with me that "once you dive you never forget" and that I should mind my own business. Ok then.... Be a statistic- Natural selection works for me...

Anyway, any diving accident is a tragety- People- if you haven't dove in over a year- get into a quarry and get a refresher. those that are overweight- get in shape- I'm not saying you have to lose 100lbs, just get a little more fit so you can carry your gear to the boat without having a coronary. For those with issues (heart, diabetes, etc) be truthful with the Dive outfit and DM- they can keep an eye on you. If in doubt about your ability to dive, either abort and snorkle, or pay some $$ and have a DM babysit you. And- above all, be a good buddy and stay safe!

Lisa

I will be there in St Maarten in a few weeks, I have heard a dive a accident occured two days ago with "Dive Safaris" who is te operator for Carnival Cuise. It looks it is not the first accident they had, does anybody knows another dive operator in ST Maarten ?

I call the Divi and dove with them.

Bob

- excuse me- ever hear of a "refresher course"?

Anyway, alot of cruisers don't dive much, Natural selection works for me...

 

Anyway, any diving accident is a tragety- or pay some $$ and have a DM babysit you. And- above all, be a good buddy and stay safe!

Lisa

Solid Lisa, Ever read the DAN reports of annual accidents/deaths? Most start out by" Subject, after a nite of heavy alcohol consumption, and extremely overweight....:o ", "Apparently exceeding his capabilities and experience, when he "attempted to"...,:eek: "

Keep alert!!! and update your skills, I bet that less than 15% of all divers know the New recomendations regarding Safety stops.... but I digress...Scuba is not a Zipline tour and it does require a level of skill!!!

I am 5'8" and 270 lbs...but I run 1.5 to 2.5 miles every other day and bench a little over 400 lbs for reps on a weekly basis and I do not ever drink alcohol 48 hours before diving...and that is the only part of your post you left out, how many times have you gone on a dive with someone who smells like Coors was their partner the nite before?

Yikes! I just watched Open Water too :eek:

Yes, what Lisa said is very solid/true..... People need to keep up on their diving/skills.... And I think cruise ships AND dive ops need to have strictor standards.... And if they don't meet those standards, turn them away..... I think alot of dive shops want the $$ and are sure they'll beat the liability odds and will be fine.... But one accident, can ruin a dive shop.... And the equipment standards need to be stronger and adhered to.... To have BC's with holes, Leaky regulators, tanks that taste funny or weight belts that don't work is unacceptable.... Which is why I take my own gear.... It's a pain but I know the equipment, both familarity, service record and how it's taken care of..... I dive 1-2 times per month with 3-4 dives per outing and I do that during 7 months of the year.... I don't get these people who don't dive for awhile and want to endanger everyone else..... With that all being said, Billeelou, you mentioned new recommendations on safety stops.... What I know for the recreational diving is a 3 min safety stop at 15ft.... Do you know a different recommendation?? I have lot's of dive friends both DM's and instructors and belong to a couple of groups but have heard nothing of a different recommendation for safety stops.....

I was diving in Hawaii with several divers that had not been in awhile. Their buoyancy was awful, air comsumption and such..... I stuck by the DM/guide.... I was tired of getting kicked in the head, body, etc.... very irritating......

cruzegirl, please be gentle with those of us who are new recreational divers...Michigan offers very few opportunities to dive locally and vacations are expensive...my buoyancy is not great and I try and watch where I kick but I do obey all the the safety skills that I learned and am LOVING every opportunity I have to dive and experience the whole new underwater splendor...we snorkelled for years and diving seemed to be a natural progression...the expereinced divers have been a wealth of information for us...give great hints and good advice...

Deec,

I am so sorry if that came across as being critical.... I am a newer diver too, certified just over a year.... So I understand the new diver thing and getting out there..... Please don't be discouraged by not having a lot of places to dive and getting your practice.... You have lakes, quarries and such.... And for only a certain number of months, I know that due to weather... So do what you can to get that experience....

My concern with those that don't dive frequently or most important, very infrequently, once every 1-2 years is that it can be riskier for you to dive.. If your a newer diver.... It's the lack of practice on what was learned and lack of experience.. How to get that experience, I don't know....

I still stand by my feelings of if your a newer diver, you haven't been diving at least once in a 1-2 year time frame then you should be doing a refresher course prior to your vacation.... It's a safety reason...I'll say this as gently as I can, your lack of experience or frequent dives, can affect my safety and yours! I've seen (in my short experience of 43 dives now) where a shop has taken someone who hasn't been out in awhile and it's been scary.... Uncontrolled descents have been one of the real scary poss.... And buoyancy....

Yet diving is a wonderful thing and would hate to think of someone being denied... My safety is important too....

Regarding the comments about infrequent divers: I am one of those -- often I'll go up to a year between dive trips, but I think it comes down more to experience and training than frequency of diving.

With over 500 dives in 13 years, I have no problem jumping in the water after 10-12 months out and having perfectly fine bouyancy, air consumption, kicking ability, etc. We learned in cold Puget Sound, with murky water and currents, and feel we can handle most things that come our way -- at least in tropical water. Now, drysuit diving is another matter entirely . . .

I Have Used This Company Many Times Myself. I Have Always Thought It Was Top Notch.

Agree With All The Others About The Standard Buddy Rules. And I Do Occasionally Dive With Someone That Only Dives Once A Year And It Truly Makes Me A Little Nervous.

Anyone Know A Good Company To Dive With In Grand Cayman? Yes George Town. Have Used Don Fosters In The Past.

What a great thread ! I relate a lot to diverearl. It is important for everyone to have decent skills. For the occasional diver, being led by a divemaster is a great idea. I will still do it on a cruiseship dive because it will either be my first time at the site, or it will have been one that I dived way back.

I know that while my boyancy is good where I usually dive in my same configuation, that once I go to the warm water, I do need to do a weight check first (coki beach is a good place as St Thomas is usually the first port and I am pretty unimpressed with the boat diving here.. I was cold, and so were some other women.I brought extra polar fleece for inbetween dives and could have sold them for $100. (just kidding).

My point is that in a new 5mm my weight will be more than in my worn and compressed 3mm.

On the buddy system, I will only go with someone who I feel has equal skills to mine. I am a Rescue Diver (Master Diver) but do not want to put my life at risk with someone who panics, or overreaches their skill level do to poor judgement I am great at helping with the commom stuff and am alwasys happy to give a hand for simple situations (gear caught up on an obstacle cutting them free or detangling)

. I am also doubtful that most of the people I have dived with on cruise ship tours would be able to help me with anything beyond a simple problem.

For what its worth almost every dive boat I know of in the NY/NE has at some time had a fatality. It doesn't always point to a problem with the operator.