mredandchis

15 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

Trust me a reliable and effective Covid Vaccine was not a year in the making. Please don't believe the nonsense that some media outlets lead you to believe. This Pandemic and/or symptoms has been around for a while and Medical Experts around the World have been working toward a cure. Sorry, the past administration gets zero credit. 

The covid vaccine was first being developed during the Sar outbreak and then got more attention during mers so it isn't a bad new Idea.  

19 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

It is easy to say just stay away, however, Florida is one of a number of states that receives more in Federal money than they pay in. It isn't the United State of Florida, it is the United States of America.

 

It might be an interesting experiment to cut lose of a state or two, and see how they fare on their own.

What does Federal money have to do with a fear of going into Florida???

2 minutes ago, OceanZena said:

All in less than one year from testing to release. Look, IF say 10 years down the line there's no news of horrible side effects from these drugs and Covid is still ravaging the world, then yes, i'll most likely take the shot then. I will be in my 60's at that point and in the higher risk category as well---but for now I have zero intention of taking it and I don't think it's our "obligation" to do so. However, I do respect your opinion even though I disagree with it. 

I don't completely agree with you 100 percent but I will stand with you in your right for self-determination.  You have an absolute right to your opinion and your decisions.  Some of these people are totalitarians and remind me of the old political cartoons of a giant iron boot.  There is only one way of thinking and it is what they determined as their way.  It is a very narrow minded approach to the interchanging of free thought.  You will not be able to change that.  Let it go and as things unfold make your own decisions.  

2 hours ago, jetsfan58 said:

This Florida Governor is really starting to do and act out some outlandish things. He is so extremely radical (the wrong way) with his thoughts and applications. We all know that these are not his "Insane" ideas but a "Close Mentor" that also resides in Florida. 

 

My concern is that we all are majority Florida cruisers and/or will be in the near future. I am really concerned for the Citizens and the visitors to that State. This guy acts as if Covid has "Magically Disappeared". It hasn't and as a matter of fact did we not just see where India had the highest number of new cases in a long time? 

 

Maybe some of you Florida Cruise Nuts can help convince your Governor that he needs to be compassionate about all Floridians and also Visitors; not just those who he is counting on for future votes. It's really a sad situation that we all could be risking our health coming to cruise.    

I don't get your point.  I don't see him as "insane".  You might not agree but that doesn't make him insane.  

I am not concern for either the  citizens or the visitors to Florida.  My son lives there and he feels everything is heading in the right direction.  I will be visiting him in June and I am not concerned at all. 

But as was said before we all have decisions and if you feel that Florida is dangerous then don't enter it by any means.  It is that simple.  

1 hour ago, Tippyton said:

I think you'll find this fascinating....

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/7/5/17500782/zero-number-math-explained

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

 

 

 

I don't know who you are but I could hang out with you.  I found the articles fascinating, true and a lot of fun.  

8 hours ago, OceanZena said:

I don't think you will have control over unforeseen side effects that may appear down the road with those untested jabs. But since it will get you back to cruising quickly, it'll be worth it right? 

there are many unforeseen side effects including the actual virus.  Covid infected people may have respiratory  issues in their latter years.  It is all a toss up.  

9 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

We do know that if there was no testing, there would be zero cases reported and that number would be lower than actual cases.

 

2.4 times zero is still zero Of all the possible multiples, I think 2.4 seems like a random number.

As for the first statement it seems very nonsensical except that 0 tests = 0 cases < any positive number.  It has nothing to do with reported cases.  

2.4 actually  isn't totally made up.  The Diamond Princess showed the world a lot about asymptomatic cases.  The Japanese found them when testing crew and passengers.  The number doubled on the ship with testing everyone. 

In the real world there are people that walk around with covid and don't know it.  Tracing sometimes picks them up but not as a rule,  They are not included in cases.

You also have another group of people who don't run to the doctor or to even get tested.  And some that cant get to a test site.  It has been suggested by some experts that the number is higher than 2.4 but you would see many of them have an agenda.  I feel very assured that 2.4 is a good number and more closely represents reality than the official numbers. 

40 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

I think its safe to say that a vax optional cruise would end up with a large contingent of folks with natural immunity from prior infection.  The folks that are least afraid of Covid are frequently those that have already had it.

Well pardner ,  we aren't there today. and we aren't sailing yet.  Some states are getting very close, and some got a ways to go.  BUT each day is a little better. 

When the day comes that Carnival weighs anchor I think the numbers may be a lot better.  IF we can hit 80 percent H I then it wont matter as much cause the scales will be definitely time in peoples favor. 

Some of the people that are refusing vaccinations have had the virus and are on the vaccinated side automatically.  They are part of H I.  And is has been generally accepted that the reported numbers of people that have had covid is less than the actual.  The number is actually closer to 2.4 times higher.  I sail in sept and that is a lot of river under the bridge by then. 

12 minutes ago, vicky3vicky said:

I know you asked for my biggest fear, but if it is alright, I would prefer to mention a few of my lesser fears first.

 

I fear that less ports will be open to cruise ships when proof of vaccination is not required. I fear that if there were to be a Covid outbreak that there would be a decent chance of having everyone quarantined in their cabins during the cruise and that the cruise might be cut short. I fear that we will need to be wearing maks for longer than need be. Heck, I fear that  without vaccines required that it will be a longer time before the return of 24/7 soft-serve ice cream, line dancing with a thousand other cruisers, and feeling comfortable hugging the new friends I make.

 

My BIGGEST fear is that if there are serious outbreaks exascerbated by people who are not vaccinated   and because of that cruising is forced to shut down again,that the already near bankrupt cruise lines will no longer exist.  

lesser fears?   no such thing, these are important to you.  

Less ports is a definite possibility,  or even a port that is having its own issues.  No port in the caribbean has beat the virus yet.  

sigh quarantines.   They did that early pandemic but they have been sailing during the pandemic without vaccines and are not having quarantines. But alas we dont know what the plan will be.

Masks,  i dont like them.  I think they will start with them on day 1.  Hopefully medical grade masks that you can take off when you are seated.   

ICE CREAM,   I do hope they will at least serve us ice cream when we want some.  I always liked the ice cream. 

 THE sail away party?  That is sad but I dont think they will have that.  And even the dance events.

Socializing aka closeness to cool people.  ask for the hug and tell the world to kiss it. 

Serious outbreaks Might happen, depending on what serious is defined as.  I think we will see some sort of tracking going on board.  I believe the cruise line will know how to nip it in the bud.  

7 minutes ago, cruiseracer said:

Then you have a decision to make. If all cruiselines require you to be jabbed - you decide how important cruising is to you.

Sorry, I wasn't clear.  I am vaccinated.  And a line, lets say Carnival, says vaccination is not required, then non vaccinated people, lets say, that would normally sail on Norwegian or RC would flock to Carnival and upset the herd immunity hence causing some sort of major issue on a cruise..  This is my concern,  But yes that would be when I would decide that it wasn't worth the risk on Carnival and head to another line.  But you had asked for a concern with covid and cruising and that is my only concern. If the ship could maintain herd immunity then I have no issue.  

4 minutes ago, cruiseracer said:

Deflection is a sure sign of insecurity. One last time: What is your biggest fear about covid and cruising? No deflection...

may I answer that seriously.  My greatest fear is with other lines possibly going with all vaccinated cruisers only, that the number of people that have no immunity to covid would upset the herd immunity balance on board Carnival.  I do assume that there will be some people with a natural immunity from recovery.    

57 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

Hot off the presses - more evidence I'm right.

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.19.21255720v1

 

 

Thanks , that is very interesting.  So Covid is following what they have seen in other viruses.  This is good news.  

14 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

This! All or nothing is unreasonable. Some folks may catch it but the goal should be to reduce that amount to a minimum and nearly eliminate serious medical evacuations/deaths. There is risk level many people would be comfortable with and the cost of getting back after life as we knew it. It's already going to take much longer than any realize since so many have literally been mentally traumatized and scared to death. Many things are much more dangerous statistically, like driving, medical errors, medication side effects etc, yet folks don't really think about it, talk about it, and have it shoved in their faces all day, everyday.

 

I just hope they work just as hard to reacclimate people to society/normality that they did to pump fear/worry. I don't think many realize just how many people have been completely dominated by fear/anxiety/stress/worry etc. It's like nothing I've ever seen. It reminds me of the fear people have after a large earthquake. It's major but generally subsides after a few weeks but never completely leaves. I still jackrabbit towards the door for any minor shaking, even small magnitudes, and get an instant physical fear reaction. It'll probably never leave me. I hope the masses that are affected by this whole crazy episode in life aren't permanently scarred by covid and all it encompasses.         

Totally agree with you.  One of the issues is MSM who like shock value and twist things.  And when I say MSM i mean ALL of them.  They all drive a narrative.  I must admit that early on in this pandemic I was scared and many times confused.  Now I am better, but still a little wary.  I just hope that everyone does get a grip on all this, work together and get these ships sailing again.   

9 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

True but I think of it more as a goal. I like goals that are challenges. You may not make it, but try like heck.

Lofty goal and I do wish it come true.  My goal is different.  I want covid to be a lesser problem than the seasonal flu.  That will be  attainable but will take a lot of work.

2 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

My priority is no deaths, especially mine. Others obviously think deaths are fine as long as they aren't inconvenienced a little.

Ut oh,  this is a concept that isnt achievable.  Has there ever been a flu death associated with cruising?  How about nora?  Death is part of life, covid is now part of life, disease is part of life.  We can't escape it.  

9 minutes ago, angelsfort said:

I disagree...  as I said, even with the vaccine, you can still CARRY the virus onto the ship - it can still spread to others WHO ALSO HAVE THE VACCINE, because you can still contract the virus with the vaccine.  Your symptoms may be less severe (MAYBE) but you'll still have it.  There can still be a breakout on board.  Why would there be less of a chance with 100% vaccinated folks on board when any or all of them could be carrying the virus?

You are making a lot of unsubstantiated statements there.  There is no evidence at this time that a person that is vaccinated and catches the virus can spread it.  

The reason that there is less of a chance with 100% vaccinated folks on board when any or all of them could be carrying the virus is that to have 1 break out case the ship will need to carry 11,000+ people.  That is the rate of break out cases.  

I am not saying that the ships should be vaccinated only.  But then that isn't any of our decisions.

1 hour ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Carnival has a much different crowd than Celebrity. Some old old timers seek out the sleepier lines, Carnival is as far away as you can get from the sleepy lines. Waaaay different demographic and much younger average age overall. Plenty of older folks but not a senior cruise dominant like other lines, the age demographic runs the gamut from small kids to elderly but middle age seems to dominate IMO.   

Try a journey cruise lol DIAMONDS every where 

12 minutes ago, Ellaleah said:

It seems to me that you have made the case for vaccine passports.

I sure hope not 

14 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

In the lounge outside the MDR there was a POLKA BAND on the first longer (10 night) Celebrity cruise we took. Trust me when I tell you, it was appropriate for the crowd. Fortunately, I've seen the demographics shift - and the vibe pick up - on Celebrity over the following dozen+ years.

 

Tom

My cruise was on Holland America,  bingo in the morning , bingo in the afternoon and super bingo in the evening,   There were a lot of walkers and wheel chairs.  But these people were not living in nursing homes.  Been to several nursing homes with my mother and it was much different than that Holland America cruise. 

51 minutes ago, Marlowe8 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/health/vaccine-nursing-homes-infections.html

 

Here is a documented case where an unvaccinated person passed the virus to people who have been vaccinated.   We have 2 Carnival cruises booked for the winter but will cancel if vaccines are not required.

23 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

I'm not sure sure - I was on a Thanksgiving cruise one time (I was probably 50 at the time) and I felt like I could have called a lot of them grandpa/ma!  YIKES !

7 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Lol, grandma/grandpa is one thing, nursing home old is another. Then again, people are totally fine excluding kids so maybe just put a age cap on cruisers (say no one over 70) "just temporarily" to get things going (as many like to espouse). Goose/gander and all that. 😁

Look first off a nursing home is NOT a cruise ship.  Let the NYT start their propaganda.  

And I was on a cruise ship doing the Panama canal and there were a lot of people that even called me "Sonnie" and I was 60.  

I feel like banning children and/or the elderly is completely wrong.   No 2 people are alike.  Cruise lines have been sailing in other parts of the world during the pandemic and there was no vaccine and they did it well.  The vaccine is a game changer and we know that to start of cruising the lines will use their methodology that they have been using, Medical grade masks and all.   Then they will slowly back off as they see fit.  

1 hour ago, volfan22701 said:

EVERYONE IS AT RISK.

If you are standing in a room with 1000 people and no one in the room has covid , is there a risk?  

I thought of that during the early days of the pandemic when I was told to wear both a mask and gloves to protect myself.  We wiped down the groceries and i place my clothing into the washer and then showered upon my return.  Then I thought if no one in the store had covid, what am I doing?  Since then I have changed.  No more gloves, no more wiping everything down,  just basic precautions. 

Now even the CDC says if a family gets together and everyone is vaccinated there is no need for masks.  How large a family is that limited to. 

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Some people can smoke all their lives and not die from cancer. The odds are not good, though.

 

You can choose to make up whatever numbers you like. I think the distortion in some states is to way under report, otherwise it is bad for their economy, and we all know money makes the world go round.

actually I believe it is hard to draw a line in a grey area.  There are people marks as died from covid that had actually died of something else and other that werent marked that should have.  That line is so blurred I wouldnt know which way to go on any single case.  But I think it all comes out in the wash.  Even each state is tracing and using the tests to tract cases down.  It isn't fool proof but it is the best we got.  

12 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The majority of breakthrough cases, about 60% were in people under the age of 60. 

Very true, 

I cant find what ages there was on the hospitalized.  Jfunk brought up hospitalized breakthoughs as maybe being heavy viral loads.  That is a key I think in the logic.  Are the hospitalized people  the ones that we would have been considered in harms way or are the studies all full of ca ca.  I will look more tomorrow.  Old men need their sleep too.  

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

So what are we debating? Everyone agrees it is plausible. I believe as the number of variants increase, the percentage of breakthrough cases will as well. 

Maybe it is just tone that each person reads into the printed word.  

Logic says that there will be more breakthrough cases the more people we vaccinate.  I see a pattern of this happening more to the elderly as the vaccine  doesn't seem to be as totally effective on them.  Am I elderly at 69?   Anyhow we have at least offered all the people at risk the vaccine. Here in NC 71 percent have taken it.  Now to get as many people who are willing to take the jab as possible and see if we can get the same results as other nations have.  

AND as you once said , this is a global pandemic.  The nations must help each other in order that the people of earth flourish.  This stuff needs to get to ever corner. 

1 minute ago, jfunk138 said:

I generally agree with much of what you say here... But hundreds of those thousands of cases did turn into hospitalizations.  You don't get sick enough to be hospitalized and not shed the virus.   

 

Many on both sides of this debate are WAY too optimistic about how well the vax works.   At this point, we've only had a large number of people "fully vaccinated" for a short period of time.  As that time increases and these folks get more exposed, this number of breakthrough cases is going to grow rapidly.

Point taken,  I dont know except for reading thru studies.  But could a person not have a severe case of covid that stimulated  a negative health condition? such as a elderly person on oxygen pick up some covid that makes it very hard to breath?