mredandchis

2 hours ago, cruiseracer said:

Always trust in God. Agenda may not be the correct word here, not sure. Will give it more thought. All the best to wifey... Same here - unrelated health issues to covid should not effect a desire or decision to cruise. It doesn't matter to me if others wear masks or astronaut suits, get vaccinated or impregnated - it is their complete decision.  

Amen, it is each persons decision.  I don't like seeing people being forced or coerced into anything. I am definitely against forcing anyone to take the jab.  But my wife gets number 2 tomorrow -  I am a person that supports getting it.  We need a bunch to hit herd but we don't need everyone. 

Agenda isn't the right word.  It is a total unbendable mind set.  "There is one way, and it is my way".   And the worse part is. the only way it will be, is what the directors and CDC agree to. They wont be asking any of us for our opinion.

  And while many talk about mandates, we have fellow cruisers from many nations that want to cruise also.  This is not about the USA, it is about cruising, its about the world.  

Now let me put this soap box away. 

1 minute ago, bafinegan said:

I like how the CDC states those vaccinated can travel within the US with relatively low risk, but the CDC director is discouraging travel.   And the wonder why people are confused🙄

Yes I noticed that about her.   I travelled recently across country  in my POV and felt perfectly safe 100 percent of the time, with the exception of some drivers on the road.  And she thinks us peons shouldn't travel. SMH.    

Overall I think the idea of restricted travel isn't a bad idea. The world has hit a new high "daily new cases" .  This is a global pandemic and it will take a while.  

50 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Now who is swimming with mermaids? Cruise lines have to report noro cases over a certain threshold to the CDC, Covid is going to be no different except with a lower threshold. Cruise lines and cruise ships will have records for all to see. Your obsession with the CDC is irrelevant.

And they still haven't come out with any guidance yet. 

30 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Seeing mermaids might occur with someone who had been overserved.

 

Carnival will have no choice but to report Covid cases to the CDC. Which do you think will cost them more? Canceled cruises or suspending Cheers?

 

In any event, I said suspended, not eliminated. And that assumes Carnival can fool the judge that they will never, ever pollute again.

You have gone from incidences of inebriated individuals having issues with masks , to cancelled cruises.  I can see that a person may be shut off, heck I have seen it happen many a time but "suspending" the Cheers program is only wishful thinking on your part.   And as for reporting to the bureaucrats at the CDC, they have not come out with any guidance as to what is acceptable or not.  

14 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I can see the Cheers program being suspended and a number of lifetime bans. Carnival doesn't need anarchy - they need a stable, safe environment on the ships to stay afloat.

You can see?  do you also see mermaids?  I spoke to a crew member that was in charge of safety on board.  He said the Cheers program was the major cause of safety issues that he had to report on.  I asked why not stop the Cheers program then?  he said as long as other lines offered it Carnival was going to also offer it.  Plus it was a source of revenue.  And when in doubt , just follow the money.  

7 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Ask God.

which one?

7 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

I'm recalling some issues I've witnessed onboard security has had with people in the past. Now I'm picturing them trying to get some inebriated selfish anti-masker to get them to wear a mask.

 

It's going to be, let us just say, a sad situation...

 

Tom

11 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

To ask for absolutes is not realistic nor reasonable. Death and taxes come to mind (and apparently not everyone is subject to item #2 )!

Tom

if there are no absolutes, nothing is really objectively right or wrong, is it?

1 minute ago, cruiseracer said:

Not sure which question(s) you answered - but hey, thank you for sharing your opinion.😀

I just took your numbers 1 thru 7 and labeled mine accordingly.  And you are welcome. I

6 minutes ago, cruiseracer said:

This thread is chock full of "this could happen, maybe, this might happen, perhaps, inclined to believe, etc" when it comes to covid and cruising. Why? 

 

Most on here are adamant about mandating masks & vaccines (as related to covid) for those others than themselves, but for what reason(s) exactly? 

 

How about a perspective check that we can all learn from? 

1. What will covid vaccines ABSOLUTELY do for us while onboard?
2. What will covid vaccines ABSOLUTELY prevent from happening while onboard?
3. What will masks (any mask) ABSOLUTELY do for us while onboard?
4. What will masks (any mask) ABSOLUTELY prevent from happening while onboard?
5. IF vaccines are required for all passengers & crew; should masks be required? Why?
6. Am I 100% guaranteed not to catch covid on a ship if masks & vaccines are mandatory for all? Why?
7. What is everyone most worried about concerning covid and sailing? Death? Sickness? What?

 

6 minutes ago, cruiseracer said:

Very well put!    in perspective.  

1. Covid vaccines would absolutely limit the spread of Covid19

2. nothing

3 make some people feel safe

4 nothing

5 nope

6 nope

7 You said everyone but can answer only for me -  Death and severe illness.  I also don't what to die or get real sick with the flu, a cold, or novo.  

  

35 minutes ago, Prismism said:

 

Carnival may just have us fill out a questionnaire prior to boarding. Could be as simple as checking a box next to the question of "Have you been vaccinated?". My wife and I were on one of the last cruises in March 2020, and they had us check boxes on a form asking if we had visited China in the last three months, whether we had any symptoms, etc. They required zero proof of the legitimacy of our answers. I wouldn't be surprised if they did this for vaccinations.

I remember a time when they asked health questions and your answers would effect whether or not you were allowed to board.  You still got to pay for the cruise though and I thought what a silly set of questions.  

5 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

And yet, the J&J vaccine has been paused because one person died of blood clots and 6 others developed blood clots. If people have been dropping dead as you say, why hasn't there been a pause for the other vaccines too? I do not believe what you say is true.

Hey there coffeebean.  Not sure if you are kidding or making a point.  It is strange that they paused J and J for 6 blood clots and i death and we have had blood clots and deaths with other vaccines.   There are a lot of links out there. 

5 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

That is also assuming everyone is constantly wearing one correctly.  I was at a restaurant where they make the sandwiches in front of you.  The person making the sandwich was wearing a mask and gloves.  However, her gloved hands were all over her mask adjusting it.  Then she went back to making the food.  Gross.  I've seen people put them under their noses.  They take them on and off for various reasons.  They are the biggest false sense of security ever.  It accomplishes so little when staying 6 feet or more away from someone and avoiding small, crowded indoor areas for any length of time is much safer.

The masks are a joke to me.  This is just my opinion and I know some people feel so strongly that masks would end this pandemic.  It's ok for people to have different opinions.

Agreed.  And I bet that the cruise ships will allow you to remove them when you eat and drink. And what do we do a lot of on a cruise..... eat and drink.  There is going to be a lot of resistance to mask mandates.  Look all over the nation.  There is more and more push back.  I walked into a hotel 2 weeks ago to check in.  Big sign said , we require masks.  THere were 3 people in front of me checking in.  I had my mask on and yet I am vaccinated.  The 3 werent even carrying a mask.  And a whole family walking out of the hotel , thru the line, and only one had a mask on.  This will be very interesting on board.  

21 hours ago, cruiser0216 said:

Husband and I are experienced cruisers, but first time taking our 8, 6 and 2 year old on carnival dream December 2021.

 

What tips do you have for cruising with 2 year old? Planning to take a stroller, to use ship crib, sound machine, occasionally camp ocean. 

 

Should we take toys? 

Snacks? 

Kid friendly areas? 

Muster tips? 

Anything else? 

 

Also, did you send child to camp ocean and just adults go to mdr? Mdr dinner is our favorite part of the day and we need help figuring out how to do that without kids for at least some nights. Ideally 2 year old would go to bed by 8pm, but hoping she's flexible. 

 

 

My daughter brings her 2 children on annual cruises.  Usually they eat with the family in the MDR.  But the 2 and 5 year old LOVED camp ocean.  So they fed the kids on occasion up at the Lido and then got them back into camp and they went to the MDR.  They are now 12 and 15 and still usually eat with the family but it is easy to get rid of them.  My daughter dumps them on her parents.  

I have done RCL, Norwegian, HA, Princess , and a couple of real small ones.  They are all different.  Most everything is just your preference.   I personally like the Dream ship as they are more roomie,  Carnival provides a decent vacation and the entertainment isn't bad.  I would agree with Firefly the RCL is better but then they do charge more for the experience.  Lunches are good on Carnival and the Seaday Brunch is my fav.  Steak and Eggs please.  And you can get the drink package if you wish on Carnival and bar service is better than I had experienced on Norwegian, but that could just be me.  

16 minutes ago, Mike & Julie said:

The opinions on this topic are vast and many great valid points raised regardless of what side of the fence you find yourself on.

I typically look at stances like this through a financial prism. 
 

Carnival raised 2.5 billion is cash by diluting their stock in the last 6 months. Their share holders and bankers will not allow the CEO to take this stance, I suspect they will require all travelers to be vaccinated prior to setting foot on any of their vessels. 
 

How much of their loyal clients will go elsewhere... it’s a risk Carnival leadership can’t chance.

 

 

 

 

I was actually thinking if I would still want to sail on Carnival,  after SNJ brought his perspective up.  It is all 'what if' at this point but would I want to chance a lock down due to an abundant unprotected passenger manifest.  I am only a drop in the bucket as I only cruise about 4 weeks a year and I usually do it all on Carnival.  I was  fine with the idea of herd immunity being transferred from land to sea but SNJ's scenario would possible cause an imbalance. And maybe enough to cause a outbreak greater than just a few random cases.  I think the idea of looking at the big picture as this unfolds is pretty wise.  

13 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

But the problem happens if Carnival is the only main stream line based out of the US that will not require adults to be vaccinated. This would increase the number of unprotected exponentially because Carnival would be their only option besides possibly MSC.

You know, you scare me.  Because you got a point and you had me thinking about this a lot.  You statement makes some assumptions but is a possibility.  Again no one knows what the first day of sailing will be like and what restrictions each line will have. But I can see people that usually sail with other lines finding any line that doesn't restrict them and going for it.  I wonder how many  unprotected additional people would be on any given ship on a given sail date.  Would it upset the herd immunity that needs to be on the sailing? 

3 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

Not refusing, but asking for the science behind vaccinating people who have already had a disease.  The science supports my position.  In fact, they're finding that the blood clots have a higher presence for those who already have had Covid.  Before you ask me to prove it, look at Dr. John Campbell on Youtube from either yesterday or the day before.

You have a point, in fact my daughters boss just recently got over a significant case of Covid and has been advised to wait a while before getting a vaccine.  I am not sure if there is a science behind getting the job after recovery.  I believe there is a lot of uncertainty as how long and how much protection you may have.  And again you do have a valid concern. 

21 minutes ago, Cruisin 4 Ever said:

This makes me very nervous. I hope to be vaccinated soon but what if I'm on a cruise and there is an outbreak because of unvaccinated people. Wouldn't that mean everyone gets stuck in their cabin?

I am vaccinated and I hope a lot of people get the shot, but there will be 3 groups of people on board, vaccinated , recovered and  unprotected.  But the idea is that the unprotected would be so few that they wouldnt have to much of a chance of catching it.  If anyone does test positive vaccinated or not they would be quarantined, I would suppose.  We will find out later on how they will handle it.    Glad you are getting the shot. 

4 minutes ago, Stallion said:

I think both sides of this debate should understand that the factual battleground of this debate is rapidly evolving. When the new stats come out tomorrow morning more than 50% of Americans over 18 will have had at least a single vaccination. Everyday about 3.3 million vaccinations add to those numbers. The projected dates of herd immunity (hopefully at between 70%-85% full vaccinations) have substantially moved closer in just the last few weeks.

 

Currently, the United States is projected to hit 70% by about July 9 and 85% by August 5. The hypothesis will start to be tested within the next 1 1/2-2 months as several states reach the projected threshold of herd immunity.

 

If the herd immunity projections are correct this debate may resolve sooner than expected. Reality check: the numbers don't lie- there are 13 philosophically conservative states that are lagging behind the rest of the country and face a longer herd immunity projection because of poor vaccination performance

You got that right but don't forget the herd immunity is 2 fold and also includes recoveries.  How well protected recovered people are and for how long is still in study.  But normally after catching a virus there is resistance to the virus for some time.  There are more recoveries than recorded as some people didnt know they had it or decided just not to report it.  But it all helps all of us as this unfolds.  A number of states will reach the threshold in early may, by June 1 we will see the results .It will take till end of July to establish a solid in the U>S.  

Now we need to also worry about all our neighbors and the rest of the planet.  

45 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Arnold Donald was talking about vaccines not being mandated.  He did, however, speak to other health protocols including testing, masking, social distancing, etc. being in place as protection measures as opposed to a vaccine mandate.  His comments on personal freedom and liberty did not extend to those measures.  You can fully expect that masks will be required, not optional.

I am not sure what to actually 'expect' on my next cruise.  It does appear that a lot of water will go under the bridge until that happens for any of us.  But one day will we know what to expect and anything said on the boards won't really matter.

The only thing that is clear to me is no matter what the outcome of the next few months are, and no matter what is decided on, there will be people who will not like it.  Also there will be some infighting going on during these cruises because some will push the rules and others will be incensed.  

31 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I'm pretty sure you have no first hand knowledge in that regard - just hearsay based on the slant of your choice of new media.

DO what? I don't have a clue as to what MSM is saying but in early January I was preping for a cruise on the Vista and one of the sites I always look at is the WHO website.  They had a report that the hospitals in Wuhan had a super large number of pneumonia cases.  The WHO was advising them and then they reported that it was a new strain of Corona that seemed to focus around a fish market and they were doing a deep cleaning.  It wasn't until I returned from the cruise that there were reports of people returning from China having the new virus.  They didnt even have a name for it yet.  

39 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

It would depend on how complete the herd immunity is, and how much travel inward from outside occurs.

 

If herd immunity is established, barely, and you have a huge influx of new, non-immune people, you tip the balance away from herd immunity and run a risk of an outbreak.

 

According to a random Google search:

 

"In 2019, there were 79.26 million international visitors to the U.S. "

 

That is about 20% of the US population.  So if herd immunity is achieved at, say 60%, and the US is at 61%, those almost 80 million visitors might tip the scales.

 

Admittedly, I bet a lot of those visitors were from Canada or Mexico, so getting those two countries closer to herd immunity will probably mitigate that concern.

And there is the rub,  there is no line.  Some experts have mentioned lines but not the same one.  It has to be 75 percent or greater in watching other nations. And you are right, this is a world wide pandemic and our neighbors will have to get there also.  That is along with ports we wish to visit.  I look forward to the border opening with Canada, hopefully this summer and it appears the southern border is already open.   

7 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

It appears they truncated instead of rounded. I think 0.009 would be more correct, but the vaccines being used in the US are quite safe based on evidence to date. However what is thrown out is the belief that the vaccine protects 100% against serious cases, hospitalizations, and death. 374 (6%) of the cases required hospitalization and 74 (1+%) died. Currently unknown is how many others the 5800 may have infected.

WOW! Let us break this all down into simple logic.

There are 332,526,757 people in the US .
271,956,757  are teens or above and lets say they all got the jab (that is the goal).
That would make a grand total of 24,476 "break through" cases.
That then would say according to CNN data that 1468 would be hospitalised. 
And the correct percentage for death is  1.27% which would be 312 persons.

Of course the simple flu  infects 9 to 45 million with between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010.

Also the is NO evidence that a immunized person can infect any one else at this time.  With that being said it may me discovered that it is possible but with all the research being done looking for it , it would obviously be very rare.  

And before you have a total meltdown, I am fully vaccinated and I still wear my mask and social distance as long as we in the US do not have herd immunity.  But once we do, normal life comes back and it goes into the sock drawer. 

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

It beats rubbing elbows for control of an armrest. Lot of lemming meringue pie on the faces of tin foil hats today. 6 feet would be better. Driving your personal car less risky for covid but not safer than flying for getting there.

Look I agreed with you that 18 inches was good social distancing. 

1 hour ago, KennyFla said:

Just announced:

Congresswoman Doris Matsui and U.S. Senator Richard Blumenthal have sent a letter to U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky, urging her to strictly enforce recently issued safety guidance under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) and immediately halt cruises if outbreaks occur onboard.

They lawmakers said the premature resumption of cruise ship operations could threaten public safety and increase the spread of the coronavirus,

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/24792-u-s-politicians-urge-cdc-to-keep-cruise-industry-closed.html

 

This is now pure politics.

I would agree that a premature resumption of cruise ship operations could threaten public safety. It might, maybe, but could happen.  But there have been sailings around the world that haven't but then that could be just luck.  I wonder when resumption will not be 'premature"???