MEFIowa

One wonders if it makes a difference where you board... When we boarded Riviera 10/30/23 in Trieste we'd taken the train from Venice to Trieste, hailed a cab, and took it the short distance to the pier for embarkation. I neither knew nor cared what "time" our check in was at. We just walked up and go on board. Hardly a line. Early. We were in an A3 cabin but that didn't seem to matter given how few people were in line. We ate lunch and we then left afterwards to spend hours in Trieste before Riviera's departure time. When we've boarded at Terminal J in Miami (Riviera 12/2021 & Sirena 11/2022), there was the large area filled with people. The high-level cabins get the "walk right up" treatment. The PHs and As had their own lines, that went next. And then came the giant slow SNAKE for the G-B cabins, as people shuffled in a huge line. Both embarkation and disembarkation seem to be cluster-foxtrots where the "rules" and "times" aren't enforced and seemingly make no difference. So the only thing I could say for "sure" is that the highest cabin levels can have the earliest and shortest check in times and waits.

Smokers take their drinks from the Captain's or Repeaters' Parties out to the smoking areas. And you can carry them around during the Captain's Party because that is at multiple locations on the ship where you can get free drinks.

So far 40 nights without a hitch for us "cruise only" since 2021. With 20 more nights booked for 2024. All without a TA. But we're retired educated adults who have travelled. And we enjoy saving money doing our own cruise sales, airfare, excursions, alcohol, etc. Tried the TA route once, but they just weren't interested in the non-whale business (and I watched their videos about the various cabins & ships as they touted their relationship as a big O cruise TA company!).

In the real world, no one denies that golden wheels get polish and squeaky wheels sometimes get grease. There are "whales" in casinos and with TAs. We're neither. I've booked 5 cruises with O "cruise only", the first off of the 2021 Presidents' Day Sale and we've cruise fine on 4 of them for 40 nights (just finished 20 of them off Riviera as a B2B) and we do our own air fare and excursions and bring our own alcohol on board (so no drink packages). The 6th is SM without airfare. So 5 & 6 will be a 2024 B2B on Sirena.

At the Captain's Party the CD or someone else in the crew will give you the "statistics" for the passengers. On our recent 20-night B2B on Riviera (Trieste to Athens and Athens to Barcelona), 10-11/2023 Americans and Canadians were 1st and 2nd both segments. By whopping margin for #1 and then a drop to #2, still a lot. BUT we had a huge Asian contingent (esp. Hong Kong). There are so many Canadians that O did a Canadian-specific newspaper supplement in the Currents. And the Concierge lounge even had a Canadian newspaper, along with 3 American and 2 UK.

Though do you intend to WATCH for the future SALES that may impact your cruise? You should. And what will your TA do if the price of the cruise is reduced significantly due to a sale? And not all will be happy with the reduction in price. Sometimes O can have massive sales that radically reduce prices (e.g., Cabin Upgrade Sales). I book directly thru O using the same O rep. Have her ext. And I WATCH every sale. I use the SALE after SALE to start with a G or F to go to a C then to a B or A. I've paid about as much for my B or A as for the original G or F. The 10-night booking on Riviera in Nov 2023 was just $1749 PP for an eventual B3. And the eventual A3 for the 10 nights before that on Riviera only $1899 PP. From the 2023 Extraordinary Savings Sale.

We hired a private driver/guide for our excursion to Rome off Riviera (11/2023). He met us right at the gangplank and we drove off immediately after getting of the ship. But we were just there for the day, not embarking or disembarking.

Though one notes that prior to SM, no one had to do any OLife. We didn't. There was a "cruise only option". SM eliminated that choice. I prefer more to fewer choices when it comes to purchase options. BUT O continues to have SALE after SALE after SALE. Having one going on right now. I'd bet it will be replaced on 2/1/24 with another? Maybe the Presidents' Day Sale? I booked my very first cruise ever off that from O in 2021. And it is "fun" to save the brochures and right down the prices for your cruise during each sale, comparing sales as they come along.

Really, essentially a false claim as a response to the value or worth of SM? Since I just came back from 20 nights on Riviera (10/11-2023) and have 22 more nights booked in 2024, 12 from the Summer Sale of 2023 with SM and 10 nights from a 2022 sale, you make no sense. I've got 40 nights on O since 12/2021 With 22 more booked in 2024. How about you? O had at least 6, if not 8, major SALES in 2023, starting in Jan with the 20th Anniversary Sale. So O has SALE after SALE after SALE. Right now the Holiday Sale. This is O's "pricing". I watch every sale!

Did you book it under a SALE? Here is what July-August 2023 were O sales wise when SM was introduced: "SUMMER SALE up to 40% SAVINGS Limited Time Offer. Book Now! Offer Expires August 31, 2023"

So, when did you book that SM cruise? And was it actually booked under a SALE? For example, when SM was introduced it was in conjunction with the Summer Sale: "SUMMER SALE up to 40% SAVINGS Limited Time Offer. Book Now! Offer Expires August 31, 2023"

Did you actually BOOK that cruise under the 2023 SUMMER SALE at the start of "SM"? The SUMMER SALE, not SM, got you savings. I booked our ONE SM cruise off the SS. I booked it 13 July 2023. And I'm holding two SS brochures in my hand (received one on July 12th and the other on July 15th): "SUMMER SALE up to 40% SAVINGS Limited Time Offer. Book Now! Offer Expires August 31, 2023"

Since we did "cruise only" and brought our own alcohol on board for Riviera (12/2021), Sirena (11/2022) and Riviera (10-11/2023), that is a real concern. We only did the 12-night SM as the B2B to maximize our airfare "value" since the two cruises mostly didn't duplicate the ports and we doubt we'll ever be back to the Baltic. Same reason we did 20-night B2B in the Med on Riviera, cruising from Izmir (Ephesus) and Istanbul (Constantinople) all the way west to Marseilles and Barcelona with about 12 other ports in between (including Athens, Bari, Heraklion, Kavala, Kotor, La Spezia, Messina (Taormina), Naples, Rome, Split, and Venice). We may be done with O. I'm interested in Madagascar. O won't cut up some long cruises that go to Madagascar & E. Africa. And Guyana & Surinam, which O doesn't do. BUT I did Paraguay for 14 days all by myself in 2022, so not a problem. I travel to see interesting places and meet interesting people, not to be on a ship.

And VALUE and CONVENIENCE are two different concepts. We're discussing the former, not the latter. So they are paying someone else more for that "convenience". That isn't value, esp. if the product they receive is inferior or more expensive. So the downside is value.

Whether the cabin is a G or a C or an A1 or PH2 doesn't matter. The price increased. And they each received the same thing. Pennies on the dollar beer and wine at lunch & dinner in the restaurants and excursion specific credit. But feel free to determine the price PD for the increases based on cruise length. NOW, we see O reduce the excursion credits and people complaining about availability of getting O excursions they want. O forced people to try to book O excursions but then apparently forget to increase supply in line with increased demand. AND any "value" in the O excursion can only truly be determined by comparing to non-O excursions that one could do. An apples-to-apples comparison. I was so unimpressed with O's excursions off Riviera 12/2021 and Sirena 11/2022 that we did NONE. Had so much OBC for Riviera 10-11/2023 that we did some to burn up the credits. Nothing special about them and over priced for what you got.

Again, VALUE is in reference to ACTUAL prices paid for actual goods and services. We can compare PRE- and POST-SM prices on cruises in 2023 and 2024. I've given you my data. But those other posters never give their data. Hard numbers by cruise.

Though you're being vague and overly generalized. I WATCHED cruises I had booked pre-SM suddenly go up in price $800 PP. So, any "value" for SM starts with an analysis of: "This cruise was $xxxx.xx. Now it is $xxx.xx PLUS $800." The SM program "adds" a SMALL amount of beer and wine at lunch & dinner in the restaurants. Not even worth $20 PD. So that leaves a lot of money you've paid.... ... for their overpriced excursion credits. Yes, it all but FORCES you to use some of their excursions, but we're still doing OUR OWN for major excursions. We paid for private excursions to Ephesus and Rome off Riviera last year (Nov). The ship docked, the gangplank lowered, the door opened, and we were the very first people off the ship seeing our driver and car waiting for us to get to Rome. I'd bet we were half-way to Rome before the first O bus departed! Same for Ephesus. Our upcoming 22-night B2B is a 12-night SM cruise off the Summer Sale 2023 and a 10-night cruise book in 2022 well before SM. Upgraded our original G to a large C1 from a sale in Oct 2022. It is fascinating how the 12-night cruise is all essentially available and the 10-night cruise all essentially waitlisted. So far, cruisers haven't seen "value" in the SM program compared to pre-SM sales.

O opened 2023 with a 20th Anniversary Sale and then had at least another 5-7 major sales that year. O opened 2024 with the Holiday Sale. So pretty good bet we'll see another year of sales. Always worth it to track each one as they come along. And who knows, maybe we'll both again get to use something like the ESS! We've got our 22-night Baltic B2B on Sirena starting August 2024. The 12-night start is essentially all available now, while the 2nd part is essentially all waitlisted. I'm hoping the 1st may go on a serious sale soon! We booked the 2nd part in 2022 before SM.

We bring our own beer, hard liquor and wine on board. And we try to spend as much time off ship in ports and doing excursions that we can. So a glass of wine or a beer at lunch, when we're ashore, has very limited value. But then in Italy last November off Riviera I found a nice bottle of Italian red in a grocery store for E1.49. And I could buy 3 bottles of decent Italian red or white wine in Naples for E5.00 total. We have not and will not buy a "drinks package" whether a cruise is SM or not. We've had 4 cruises (40) nights on O since 12/2021, none SM and two more cruises in 2024, 1 SM and the other not.

We paid E15.50 each to take the train from Venice to Trieste 10/30/23. Worked perfectly. Simple taxi ride from pier to train station in Trieste.

We're on a 22-night B2B on Sirena from London to Stockholm and Stockholm to Copenhagen in Aug-Sept 2024. I don't anticipate any changes and so far it has all been good. Booked this back in early 2022 when the itinerary was released. The 2023 and 2024 about the same time in early 2022.

Though it depends entirely upon your cruise. Spent 20 nights on Riviera in the Med, 10/30-11/19, 2023. They did change Venice to Trieste in early 2022 and gave us OBC. The ONLY port problem for 16 ports (Istanbul had overnight both cruise) was rough weather diverted us from Livorno to La Spezia. We made all the other ports. And IIRC minimal changes in arrival and departure times when I compare the original booking from 2022 with the actual cruise more than 18 months later.

I believe the pool depths were about the same on both Riviera and Sirena, so... I'm 6'2". I could stand up and breathe. Pool over 5'. Closer to 6' than 5'. Salt water pools, so easy to float! The Riviera pool a bit wider and longer than Sirena's. You could "swim" some short laps back and forth, if a lot of people aren't in it. Or just float. I loved to do that, just looking up into the sky. So really up to her given her height and ability to both swim and float.

We did an A4 and an A3 on Riviera along with a B3. All 3 cabins essentially identical. Just differing in locations fore & aft or starboard & port. The concierge cabin gets you its perks. Being close to concierge lounge & laundry facility forward on deck 9 is nice, esp. if you do laundry on board a couple times. (We did our laundry 5 times on our 20-night B2B because we had 3 nights prior in Venice and 3 nights after in Barcelona.)

I originally booked these as lower-level cabins but used the Extraordinary Savings Sale to upgrade. We did an A4 on Riviera in 12/2021, so I knew the benefits of the concierge cabins. We only paid $1749 PP for the B3 which was a bit less than the $1899 PP for the A3.