CBS Agents - Please Help

This week I read on forums about passengers being denied boarding due to DUI/Criminal Records. I have spent the better part of 3 days on phone calls and web sites trying to get a clarification. We get a different answer from every person we talk to including Canadian Consulate/Customs.

We have booked RT Alaska cruise from Seattle which has a 6 hour stop in Victoria. My BIL has a USA felony conviction for possession and was released in 2006. He has a current USA passport and is a US Citizen.

He will not get off the ship in Victoria.

Will he be allowed to board in Seattle?

The answer doesn't have to be "YES"

a "Definately not" or a "maybe" is sufficient.

We are at 45 days and fast approaching the 30 day cancellation mark.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Easiest way to settle this is to simply call CBP (not CBS) Customs and Border Protection. They have a Seattle office and should be able to answer your question no problem. Here is the number

Name:Assistant Port Director, Passenger OperationsPhone:(206) 553-5393Fax:(206) 553-2940

Easiest way to settle this is to simply call CBP (not CBS) Customs and Border Protection. They have a Seattle office and should be able to answer your question no problem. Here is the number

 

Name:Assistant Port Director, Passenger OperationsPhone:(206) 553-5393Fax:(206) 553-2940

This is the US CBP, the OP is trying to enter Canada, hence the abive phone number for the US CBP is completely irrelevant here.

My gut reaction is that with a recent felony conviction, you would indeed be denied at the border, and in the case of a RT out of Seattle that might mean denied boarding altogether.

The only way to find out for sure is through the Canadian Consulate and/or Embassy; and get it in writing.

List of Canadian Consuls in the United States: http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/can-am/offices-bureaux/index.aspx

Working our way thru

Canadian Consolate - Seattle, (206) 443-1372

http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/seattle/imm/SEATL_Cruiseinformation_passagersdecroisieres.aspx

Cruise Information

CITIZENS AND PERMANENT RESIDENTS OF THE US

Citizens and permanent residents of the US (Green Card holders) do not require a TEMPORARY RESIDENT VISA to enter Canada as tourists. They may travel directly to a Canadian port-of-entry to seek admission. They must present proof of their status in the United States.

For US citizens, acceptable documents to prove this status would include:

• US passport
  
• Birth Certificate
  
• Naturalization Certificate
  

Please note: US citizens will be required to show valid US passports to re-enter the United States.

For permanent residents, acceptable documents to prove this status would include:

• Valid Green Card
  
• Valid I-551 endorsement in their passport
  

It is also advisable to bring a valid picture ID, such as a Driver's Licence.

Canada Border Service Agency Officers at the Port-of-Entry will determine if you will be allowed to enter Canada. They may prevent the entry of persons:

• who fail to establish their identity and/or status in the USA
  
• who fail to establish that they will be able to support themselves and their dependants while in Canada
  
• whose willingness and means to return to the USA are in doubt
  
• who have a criminal conviction - including DUI/DWI convictions
  

I don't remember going through anything but Security in Seattle for a "Return" trip on the Infinity. One is already in The USA. right.??

So I don't think getting on will be an issue. ***

The info is all shared and Authorities in Victoria will know about the issue and your cruise line will be involved there I'm sure to insure he stays onboard.

*** A semi educated guess...so I guess the answer to the OP's question is my opinion is "Likely"

This week I read on forums about passengers being denied boarding due to DUI/Criminal Records. I have spent the better part of 3 days on phone calls and web sites trying to get a clarification. We get a different answer from every person we talk to including Canadian Consulate/Customs.

 

We have booked RT Alaska cruise from Seattle which has a 6 hour stop in Victoria. My BIL has a USA felony conviction for possession and was released in 2006. He has a current USA passport and is a US Citizen.

He will not get off the ship in Victoria.

 

Will he be allowed to board in Seattle?

The answer doesn't have to be "YES"

a "Definately not" or a "maybe" is sufficient.

 

We are at 45 days and fast approaching the 30 day cancellation mark.

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

This has come up before. Usually with respect to DUI which altho a misdemeanor in some states is regarded as a felony by can border sv. The answer is simple. You might have to stay on the ship in Victoria. Nobody will ask about a criminal record. Otherwise US ports only so no problem.

72 hours before leaving originating port the passenger list is sent to Homeland Security and their counterparts in the countries the ship will will be in port - in this case Canada.

They can all review and flag passengers.

We remain cautiously optomistic.

This is the US CBP, the OP is trying to enter Canada, hence the abive phone number for the US CBP is completely irrelevant here.

 

The US CBP mission is the entry and exit of all citizens, visitors and property from the united states and surrounding territories. The CBP port director is also trained in both US and foreign custom laws as they deal with the local port, in this case since the port includes the cruise terminal they are aware of applicable US and Canadian laws governing entry for cruise ship passengers into the US and Canada. If you wish to argue this fact ill give you the email of my friend who is a CBP agent and gave me this info personally.

Now it is starting to make sense how/why we are finding it difficult to get answers.

As you all know, there is quite a bit of speculation, opinions, and questions on this issue. I have found very little to substantiate facts and even less about actual results/follow-up/outcome.

I will post definative result when I get one.

Thanks Paul554 and thanks everyone else for sticking to the topic.

I need a pay per use app for this ...

Now it is starting to make sense how/why we are finding it difficult to get answers.

 

As you all know, there is quite a bit of speculation, opinions, and questions on this issue. I have found very little to substantiate facts and even less about actual results/follow-up/outcome.

 

The cruiseline clears the passenger list with the Candian government before the cruise. Your relative could very well be denied boarding. This is a felony and a fairly recent conviction. He could be allowed to board, but if he has not cleared his felony record in advance with Canadian authorities, he wouldn't be allowed to disembarking in Canada.

A useful site with which to begin your research:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/conviction.asp#individual

You may want to read through this thread (and there are MANY others) which contain some poster's personal experiences with trying to board and/or get off the ship. However, their experiences are no guarantee of what your BIL's experience will be.

http://64.49.199.36/showthread.php?t=886399&page=6

The cruiseline clears the passenger list with the Candian government before the cruise. Your relative could very well be denied boarding. This is a felony and a fairly recent conviction. He could be allowed to board, but if he has not cleared his felony record in advance with Canadian authorities, he wouldn't be allowed to disembarking in Canada.

 

A useful site with which to begin your research:

 

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/conviction.asp#individual

 

You may want to read through this thread (and there are MANY others) which contain some poster's personal experiences with trying to board and/or get off the ship. However, their experiences are no guarantee of what your BIL's experience will be.

http://64.49.199.36/showthread.php?t=886399&page=6

Now this is a great post.

I especially Like the Signature of 6R cause it could refer directly to a poster in this thread

Now it is starting to make sense how/why we are finding it difficult to get answers.

 

As you all know, there is quite a bit of speculation, opinions, and questions on this issue. I have found very little to substantiate facts and even less about actual results/follow-up/outcome.

 

I will post definative result when I get one.

 

Thanks Paul554 and thanks everyone else for sticking to the topic.

 

I need a pay per use app for this ...

Try this thread.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1240650&highlight=earl+rosebery

The OP 'Coolest Chap' was concerned as are you. When he left the ship at the one Canadian port, Canada didn't even ask for his passport-- just his on board ID card

Would love to hear what happens to you as this is a recurring problem with no easy answer.

The US CBP mission is the entry and exit of all citizens, visitors and property from the united states and surrounding territories. The CBP port director is also trained in both US and foreign custom laws as they deal with the local port, in this case since the port includes the cruise terminal they are aware of applicable US and Canadian laws governing entry for cruise ship passengers into the US and Canada. If you wish to argue this fact ill give you the email of my friend who is a CBP agent and gave me this info personally.

The day that the USA has the authority to give a definitive decision on who is and isn't allow to enter Canada is the day I immigrate to Europe.

I stand by original comment that calling the US CBP (who are the definitive authority for entering the United States) is irrelevant for someone who is trying to find out if they can enter Canada

The day that the USA has the authority to give a definitive decision on who is and isn't allow to enter Canada is the day I immigrate to Europe.

 

I stand by original comment that calling the US CBP (who are the definitive authority for entering the United States) is irrelevant for someone who is trying to find out if they can enter Canada

*sigh* As i stated they work with and have KNOWLEDGE of Canadian entry laws. They do not control entry or make decisions of entry into Canada. They do though provide free insight and help, just as contacting a US Embassy in a foreign country can provide help. Your suggestion of the Canadian consulate is the preferred way i admit, but if they are unavaialbe or unwilling to help this would be my next POC for someone in the US.

*sigh* As i stated they work with and have KNOWLEDGE of Canadian entry laws. They do not control entry or make decisions of entry into Canada. They do though provide free insight and help, just as contacting a US Embassy in a foreign country can provide help. Your suggestion of the Canadian consulate is the preferred way i admit, but if they are unavaialbe or unwilling to help this would be my next POC for someone in the US.

Exactly my point.

While a US CBP officer can give you an opinion;

only the Canadian government can give you an answer.

Countless phone calls to TA's, NCL Reps (and up the food chain there) as well as the Canadian Consolate, Canadian Border Security and US Border Protection. Although we do not have a definative "Yes" they have all given the consistent message, they do not anticipate him being denied embarkation in Seattle. He should not get off the ship in Victoria.

In Seattle port, from what I can dissertain, the US BPS is the authority and their aim is to stop the "Unabomber" not Joe criminal.

This statement from the link to the forum above summarizes my week:

"What surprises me is that I have not seen a single account of an "inadmissible" person being denied boarding in a US port. There are incidents of folks being denied in Vancouver, and of being required to stay on board in Canadian ports, but none of them being denied access to the ship. You would think if this risk really exists that you would hear of it. But no one can guarantee it won't happen. It is all very confusing. "

We will ultimately find out in embarkation day!

Try this thread.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1240650&highlight=earl+rosebery

 

The OP 'Coolest Chap' was concerned as are you. When he left the ship at the one Canadian port, Canada didn't even ask for his passport-- just his on board ID card

 

Would love to hear what happens to you as this is a recurring problem with no easy answer.

But the OP in your linked thread states he had no conviction, which isn't the same as the BIL of the OP of this thread. Also, the passenger manifest was cleared by Canada; the OP just wasn't aware of it. Canadian officials don't ask you for your passport when you get off the ship, you've already been cleared. Canada does not require you have a passport for entry; the problem is that the US does require you to have one for re-entry (not talking about a closed loop cruise here).

Exactly my point.

 

While a US CBP officer can give you an opinion;

only the Canadian government can give you an answer.

All well and good but the OP only asked IF HIS BIL would be allowed to board the ship in Seattle. No Canadian authority has jurisdiction there last time I checked.

The US CBP does.... and they inturn or the cruiseline or both pass the info to The CBS for whatever action they (CBS) want taken in Victoria on this specific cruise.

All well and good but the OP only asked IF HIS BIL would be allowed to board the ship in Seattle. No Canadian authority has jurisdiction there last time I checked.

The US CBP does.... and they inturn or the cruiseline or both pass the info to The CBS for whatever action they (CBS) want taken in Victoria on this specific cruise.

Canadian Border Services pass the information down to the departure port/cruise line; of all the passengers who will not be able to enter Canada. The cruise line has the final say if they want to board them, but in the case of being refused admittance into Canada the cruise line is on the hook for expediently returning the passenger to the US (which they would be doing anyway in this case).

My gut feeling in this case is that because it's the last port on the cruise, and because CBS could simply be stopped from disembarking in Canada, that the cruise line will let him travel. However, it's my gut feeling. The only people who can tell you for sure is the Canadian government.

canadian border services pass the information down to the departure port/cruise line; of all the passengers who will not be able to enter canada. the cruise line has the final say if they want to board them, but in the case of being refused admittance into canada the cruise line is on the hook for expediently returning the passenger to the us (which they would be doing anyway in this case).

 

My gut feeling in this case is that because it's the last port on the cruise, and because cbs could simply be stopped from disembarking in canada, that the cruise line will let him travel. However, it's my gut feeling. The only people who can tell you for sure is the canadian government.

huh ?

... the cruise line has the final say if they want to board them...

 

huh ?

It makes much more sense in the world of airline travel so I'll use that for an example: If an airline transports someone to a place to which they're inadmissible, it's up to the airline to get the home at the airlines expense. All the costs incurred and the cost of the return are the responsibility of the airline. This is why when you board an international flight, that they want to see your passport when you check in.

So the cruise line may decide (based on input from both US and Canadian authories) that if they're inadmissible to Canada, they wont board them in Seattle, or may decide even if they are, who cares, we're taking them back to Seattle anyway; we'll just stop them from getting off the ship.

It makes much more sense in the world of airline travel so I'll use that for an example: If an airline transports someone to a place to which they're inadmissible, it's up to the airline to get the home at the airlines expense. All the costs incurred and the cost of the return are the responsibility of the airline. This is why when you board an international flight, that they want to see your passport when you check in.

 

So the cruise line may decide (based on input from both US and Canadian authories) that if they're inadmissible to Canada, they wont board them in Seattle, or may decide even if they are, who cares, we're taking them back to Seattle anyway; we'll just stop them from getting off the ship.

So what you are saying is that The cruise line has the final say on who boards in Seattle. So why would you say only the Government of Canada could answer the OP's question.?

I thought I'd provide summary for reference:

IMMIGRATION----------------------------------------------------------

USA..........Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration....USCIS

Canada......Citizenship and Immigration Canada.......CIC

US Immigration is not involved unless you are a non US citizen.

Canada Immigration is involved only if a Visa is needed and US citizens do not need a Visa to enter Canada as a tourist if they have proper documentation of citizenship.

So, neither are involved in this situation.

CUSTOMS---------------------------------------------------------------

USA.........U.S. Customs and Border Protection.......CBP

Canada.....Canada Border SErvice Agency..............CBSA

The cruise ship submits the passenger manifest.

The CBP checks it for fugitives, most wanted list, etc

The CBSA gets involved when you attempt to enter Canada.

In this case the CBSA could stop you from entering due to a conviction (among other things)

There are very specific guidelines, this is the best reference I found.

See the section: Citizens and Permanent Residents of the US

http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/seattle/imm/visa_temp.aspx?lang=eng#CITIZENS

So what you are saying is that The cruise line has the final say on who boards in Seattle. So why would you say only the Government of Canada could answer the OP's question.?

the Government of Canada will or will not;

a) inform the cruise line that he may not be admissible to Canada

b) allow/disallow him to enter Canada at Victoria

the Government of Canada will or will not;

a) inform the cruise line that he may not be admissible to Canada

b) allow/disallow him to enter Canada at Victoria

So your information has nothing to do with the Question asked here at all. Right ?