CBS Agents - Please Help

[CruisersfromOhio]

You may never decide to travel again...

This is a fairly standard language and NOT consumer friendly.

However, you have to believe it is used for extraordinary circumstances.

 

Refusal of Passage

"CruiseLine reserves the right to decline to accept or retain any person as a passenger on the cruise at any time....

Such passenger may be left at any port or place the ship calls without any liability to CruiseLine. CruiseLine shall not be required to refund any portion of the fare paid by any passenger who must leave the ship prematurely for any of the reasons set forth in this paragraph or who voluntarily disembarks or leaves the ship for any other reason, nor shall it be responsible for lodging, medical care expenses, meals, return transportation or other expenses incurred by the passenger."

 

So don't make them mad :o

[scottbee]

So your information has nothing to do with the Question asked here at all. Right ?

 

Were you looking for an argument, or simple contradiction. The people who make the decision on if they will board are the cruiseline, based on input of the foreign governments that the person intends to travel to (Canada). My original comment was that the government of the United States really doesn't have any input here.

[CruisersfromOhio]

Information not arguements.

It is tough enough to figure this out without getting into a word battle.

 

scottbee - it would be helpful if you have a documented incident or can provide info on who we can call.

 

Do you know the title of the person for a cruise lines that is responsible for this decision at the port or corporate level?

 

We have talked with port directors, customs officers, immigration officers and border security on both US and Canadian sides. NONE seem to think there is an issue with an US citizen with a current legal passport regardless of criminal history as long as there are no current warrents, boarding a closed-loop cruise originalting in a US Port and spending under 48 hours in a foreign (Canadian) port.

 

Thanks again everyone for sticking to facts and not getting sidetracked by conjecture and political debates.

[scottbee]

scottbee - it would be helpful if you have a documented incident or can provide info on who we can call.

 

Sorry; I don't.

 

The cruiseline are provided with advice from foreign governments based on passenger manifests, but I wouldn't know who in the cruise line company would be making any decision. As I said earlier, my gut opinion would be that there wont be a problem, because the only real issue with this is that the conveyance company (in this case the cruise line) is responsible for getting you home if you can't enter the country; and on a closed loop cruise like this, they're doing that anyway.

[CruisersfromOhio]

The truth is out there...

I just don't know who to call :)

[Earl Rosebery]

The truth is out there...

I just don't know who to call :)

 

I hope you have a wonderful cruise. Let us know how it turns out. Leftcoast and Scotty seem to be interested in scaring people.

[CruisersfromOhio]

I appreciate the positive energy being put out there for us!

[LeftcoastBC]

I hope you have a wonderful cruise. Let us know how it turns out. Leftcoast and Scotty seem to be interested in scaring people.

 

Read my posts again Earl. Right from the git go I said that I didn't think there would be any problem But ..there is always that but. Nowhere did I say anything other than that.

 

I was merely trying to pin Scottbee down which was a tough objective but did finally.

 

It's a closed loop cruise. An American boarding The USA

will board UNLESS something really drastic is outstanding. If that outstanding is in Canada they stay on the ship or maybe get invited off to stay. ;)

[c-to-sea]

Not to be too pessimistic but

 

What happens if someone without a passport has to disembark in Victoria due to illness

or accident? How do they get across the border to get home without one? I think this has

to be what the cruise line is concerned about.

[LeftcoastBC]

It's a closed loop cruise. So all the cruise line is worried about is to get you on board. You do not need a passport to get into Canada.

From CBSA site:

When you enter Canada, a border services officer may ask to see your passport and a valid visa (if you are arriving from a country from which one is required). If you are a United States citizen (U.S.), you do not need a passport to enter Canada; however, you should carry proof of your citizenship such as a birth certificate, a certificate of citizenship or naturalization or a Certificate of Indian Status, as well as a photo ID. If you are a permanent resident of the U.S., you must bring your permanent resident card with you.

 

YOU do need a Passport to Fly or get back into the States and that's where the issue begins for someone w/o a passport.

BUT..There obviously are methods to take back their ill and standed.

 

So get a passport and/or don't get sick or have to fly home. OR expect issues and hoops to jump through.

[Trekker954]

Sorry Paul, but I am a high level CBPO and while we may have acquired knowledge of neighboring border countries we do not receive foreign country legal training (or any foreign country policy) and even if we do have knowledge we would be irresponsible to advise travelers on other country policies as we could be found liable.

 

OP: I clearly remember Martha Stewart being denied entry to a function in Canada shortly after her release. I'm surprized Canada customs isn't giving you a straight answer. I don't think the issue is whether or not your BIL wants to get off the ship in Victoria, you said he doesn't. The question is really for RCCL and if he can board? And believe me, RCCL will give you an answer to that because if its an issue, they've run into it many times over. Hopefully they are able to program his sea pass to alert if he tries to get off in victoria in which case, he should be allowed to board since he is getting on and off in the U.S.

[scottbee]

Sorry Paul, but I am a high level CBPO and while we may have acquired knowledge of neighboring border countries we do not receive foreign country legal training (or any foreign country policy) and even if we do have knowledge we would be irresponsible to advise travelers on other country policies as we could be found liable.

 

OP: I clearly remember Martha Stewart being denied entry to a function in Canada shortly after her release. I'm surprized Canada customs isn't giving you a straight answer. I don't think the issue is whether or not your BIL wants to get off the ship in Victoria, you said he doesn't. The question is really for RCCL and if he can board? And believe me, RCCL will give you an answer to that because if its an issue, they've run into it many times over. Hopefully they are able to program his sea pass to alert if he tries to get off in victoria in which case, he should be allowed to board since he is getting on and off in the U.S.

 

I'm pretty sure that's what I said, and I got slayed for it.

[Putterdude]

I think the fundamental issue here is will RCL allow the BIL to board a ship in Seattle. There is no customs procedure in Seattle and while RCL may scan his passport I can't believe that they would have access to sensitive personal information and I believe he will be allowed to board. The trip is a closed loop cruise within the USA with one very brief stop in Canada.

Entering Canada is another matter entirely and the reason he may not get a definitive answer from Canadian authorities is because the admitting officer has a great deal of discrimination and to who is admitted and who is not. It would appear the BIL is inadmissible however, if the BIL had lots of time there is a process for "deemed rehabilitation" after 5 years but it takes a year and the fee is $200 to $1000 depending upon how much effort it takes authorities to review the matter.

With the stop in Victoria there is no formal passing through customs a passenger manifest is provided Canadian customs prior to the sip arrival it is reviewed and if a person is found to be admissible then customs advises the ship and the person is discreetly advised that he/she must stay aboard while in Victoria. From what I have read and been able to determine I suspect that there is better than an 85% probability of being allowed ashore.

[Earl Rosebery]

I am a high level CBPO

 

OK, I'll bite . What is a 'high level CBPO'

[Putterdude]

Customs and Border Protection Officer works for the American CPB.

[scottbee]

OK, I'll bite . What is a 'high level CBPO'

 

I suspect it means "Customs and Border Protection Officer"

[LeftcoastBC]

This is the US CBP, the OP is trying to enter Canada, hence the abive phone number for the US CBP is completely irrelevant here.

 

My gut reaction is that with a recent felony conviction, you would indeed be denied at the border, and in the case of a RT out of Seattle that might mean denied boarding altogether.

 

The only way to find out for sure is through the Canadian Consulate and/or Embassy; and get it in writing.

List of Canadian Consuls in the United States: http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/can-am/offices-bureaux/index.aspx

 

I'm pretty sure that's what I said, and I got slayed for it.

 

 

I quote your first reply.. Which had nothing to do with the op's question. That's what I could not under stand.

 

Many posts later you corrected your info. Finally. With some persuasion.

 

This subject is hard enough to help people with let alone give them information that is off topic and more confusing.

[Trekker954]

I'm pretty sure that's what I said, and I got slayed for it.

 

Hey Scott, I guess I should have said, that yes I agree with all you said. I was mostly commenting to Paul that CBPO (Yes, customs and border protection officers do not advise on other country policies.

 

And to other comments, IMHO, even though its not required to have a passport for a closed US loop, knowing passengers are getting off in Canada, I'm almost sure RCI is knowledgeable regarding Canada entry policies on felons. I do know from reading (nothing to do with CBP) that Canada is pretty strict when it comes to felons. So I don't know that I would agree regarding the rehabilitated criminals and just wouldn't want to chance it.

[scottbee]

I quote your first reply.. Which had nothing to do with the op's question. That's what I could not under stand.

 

Many posts later you corrected your info. Finally. With some persuasion.

 

This subject is hard enough to help people with let alone give them information that is off topic and more confusing.

 

Maybe you were confused because my original post you've quoted wasn't answering the OP, but instead answering someone who suggested they contact a US CBP office. In what you just quoted back to me there were three sentences, and four statements:

#1 US don't control entry to Canada,

#2a they'll likely get denied entry to Canada,

#2b that means they could be denied boarding by the cruise line

#3 the Canadian govt is really the only place to ask about Canadian entry)

Are these not all true?

[c-to-sea]

Scottbee and LeftcoastBC

 

Why don't you 2 exchange e-mail addresses and argue this to your hearts content. This would

allow the thread to get back on track.

[Urban trekker]

I will second that motion.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[scottbee]

.. I do know from reading (nothing to do with CBP) that Canada is pretty strict when it comes to felons. So I don't know that I would agree regarding the rehabilitated criminals and just wouldn't want to chance it.

 

And the Canadian rules are quite lenient compared to the USA; where they can (and will) refuse entry without any criminal background, but just having worked in a questionable field. A professor at UBC here in Vancouver was refused entry to the USA because of his past research on LSD with no criminal background what so ever.

[CruisersfromOhio]

Allowed to board the ship without any issues.

 

That said, there was a pax on board who was on a bicycle trip that went across the border up by Skagway. When they swiped his passport he was denied entry due to a DUI.

[CanadianConnection33]

I think there's a great deal of confusion about how this works. The confusion is likely because Canadian Border Services have discretion when it comes to 'minor' criminal convictions. Also there's a good mix of domestic (Canadian) law along with international and maritime laws and are sometimes in conflict.

At the end of the day, because the Canadian government can technically go nuts and deny entry for a minor possession offence the outcome is not entirely predictable.

 

FACT: The Canadian government has absolute jurisdiction over who enters its territory (land, sea and air).

 

FACT: Any person with a criminal conviction can be deemed "inadmissible" to Canada. The conviction must be for a crime as defined in the Criminal Code of Canada (so not parking tickets, etc.)

 

FACT: Canada (border services) will often exercise discretion and overlook minor offences. This is particularly true of "summary" convictions (misdimeanors in the United States). Generally, a coviction for a DUI/DWI is treated much more severely than simple possession. These types of offences aren't always recorded properly anyway so they don't always come to the attention of CBSA.

 

FACT: Cruise ships and the American government disclosure passenger lists in advance to allow Canada to screen the manifest.

COMMENTS: This is done to allow for easier processing in the Canadian port. I'm sure there's a treaty on information sharing somewhere out there. Imagine the headache if you had to go through customs and immigration every time you wanted off the ship.

 

FACT: Canada could flag a person and say, "they are inadmissible - stay out."

COMMENTS: If they really want, they can say a person will not be allowed onto/into anything Canadian. This is where you'd be denied boarding.

 

REALITY CHECK: They're not going to. Worst case scenario for a summary offence (DUI) is you'll be kept on the ship if it originates and ends in the US. If you're a convicted serial killer . . . well then you might get a harsher reaction. . . also why aren't you still in prison? Most people experience trouble entering Canada at a land border crossing. This makes sense: "You have a DUI conviction and you want to drive into CAnada? I don't think so."

 

CONFUSION: Canada, a reasonable functioning democracy with an interest in promoting tourism AND public safety is not going to deny entry for something that is trivial BUT they could if they wanted. SOMETIMES they will prohibit someone from leaving the ship at the Canadian Port of Call. RARELY they will completely deny access to Canada (serial killers, etc.).

Because there are different degrees of response, there is discretion, and it is not always consistent, there is confusion.

 

Of note, 5 years after a conviction you can apply for a pardon. Do this and you become admissible to Canada again and avoid all this trouble.

[CruisersfromOhio]

It is 5 years end of imprisonment or completion of parole - not conviction date, see details here (they even have an online calculator):

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/inadmissibility/conviction.asp

 

The application process can take up to a year to complete.

 

REAL WORLD: In Skagway / Yukon Passports were being actively scanned at the border into Canada. PAX on my ship were denied border crossing via bicycle due to DUI Convictions.

 

NOTE WORTHY: 3 days before sailing on NCL we received a robo-call warning NON-US citizens need for visa's PRIOR to embarkation. Seemed a little short notice to me. Information on visa requirements here:

http://www.international.gc.ca/ciw-cdm/embassies-ambassades.aspx?lang=eng&view=d