Use Choice Air!!

[greatam]

But that's whether it is a consolidator ticket or a regular ticket. No difference if it's weather related as far as I know.

 

Just an example: Consolidator ticket booked ORD/JFK/MIA. JFK is having weather problems. Can't get from ORD to MIA. You are STUCK until the ORIGINATING airline has seats available on some other routing or you wait for JFK to open. (I am currently having problems with JFK freight-only reason I brought up JFK). Your consolidator ticket originating carrier MAY reroute you but ONLY on the originating airline. RARELY, will they put you on another airline.

 

Airline booked ticket-you now have the option of flying ORD/DFW/MIA, ORD/RDU/MIA on the SAME airline (these are AA routings). OR AA could endorse the ticket to Delta and fly you ORD/ATL/MIA or FLL or many many other routings. THAT is the difference.

[Gonzo70]

Greatam:

 

Hi, three questions for you.

 

1) You mentioned that certain U.S. airports generally often good rates to South America. What are these airports? I am thinking of a South America cruise down the road, so this would be good to know.

 

2) For my ORD to FCO flight I am on Alitalia (it is a Delta flight, but it says it is operated by Alitalia, so I assume it will be Alitalia crew and plane)? I have not flown with them before. They do not seem to have the best reviews online, but that seems to be true of a lot of airlines. For their international flights do you happen to know what type of servides they offer (i.e. free meals, booze, movies etc.)?

 

3) In terms of baggage rules, would I need to look at Delta's rules (since it is Delta tickets) or Alitalia rules (since it is operated by them)?

 

Thanks :)

[greatam]

Greatam:

 

Hi, three questions for you.

 

1) You mentioned that certain U.S. airports generally often good rates to South America. What are these airports? I am thinking of a South America cruise down the road, so this would be good to know.

 

2) For my ORD to FCO flight I am on Alitalia (it is a Delta flight, but it says it is operated by Alitalia, so I assume it will be Alitalia crew and plane)? I have not flown with them before. They do not seem to have the best reviews online, but that seems to be true of a lot of airlines. For their international flights do you happen to know what type of servides they offer (i.e. free meals, booze, movies etc.)?

 

3) In terms of baggage rules, would I need to look at Delta's rules (since it is Delta tickets) or Alitalia rules (since it is operated by them)?

 

Thanks :)

 

1. The two largest gateways to South America are JFK and MIA, with MIA having more flights. There are also SOME flights out of Orlando on Copa, so it pays to check there also.

 

2. I haven't flown Alitalia for a lot of years (maybe 12). But in general, the European airlines provide more "goodies". I looked at the Alitalia website but it only states meals (depending on flight duration) and hot and cold drinks. Sorry, really can't tell you but most European carriers offer at least free wine with dinner.

 

3. Delta

[Gonzo70]

Thanks for the info. :)

[UKBayern]

DEPENDING on the fare class. About 95% of the consolidator class tickets have NON ENDORSABLE provisions in them-no re-routing, no changing carrier. And the way consolidator class tickets are sold to entities in the USA are VERY different than those sold in Europe by the "bucket shops".

 

Example: airline sells cruise line XXX tickets from point A to B at YYY price. At this point, the airline could care less how much the cruise line sells the ticket for. The tickets now belong to the cruise line. Since the ORIGINATING carrier is the ONLY airline in the chain who KNOWS what the price was, other carriers generally WILL NOT accept those tickets except as an act of goodwill (and fat chance of that in this economy). If the NON ENDORSABLE provisions are attached to the fare class, MOST carriers, even in the same alliance, (unless you are a top tier FF or a VIP) WILL NOT accept consolidator tickets. You are STUCK with the originating carrier, if and when they have seats available. Could be 2 hours or 2 days.

 

And European travelers have many more consumer protections than US travelers do when booking package trips.

 

We really think you're missing the point here. The "non-endorsable" class ticket is what we buy all the time, because we KNOW what time we are going to travel, on what flight. When a ticket is "endorsed" that means the ticket desk of an other airline will agree to accept your ticket: at YOUR, the traveler's, request, for your reasons, not the airline's reasons.

They don't normally agree to do that, on the basic "non-changeable, non refundable, non-endorsable" type of ticket, entirely right.

 

When the AIRLINE is unable to put you on the flight you were scheduled on, THEIR obligations start, what the extent of those obligations are, we were trying to explain. Those obligations are laid down in international air law and treaties, so have to adhere to the minimum standards we described for all airlines whether they like it or not. It sounds to us as if the US carriers are trying to get out of their obligations under international air law by quoting non-endorsable as the magic word that will make all THEIR problems go away.

[dzcruisers]

We really think you're missing the point here. The "non-endorsable" class ticket is what we buy all the time, because we KNOW what time we are going to travel, on what flight. When a ticket is "endorsed" that means the ticket desk of an other airline will agree to accept your ticket: at YOUR, the traveler's, request, for your reasons, not the airline's reasons.

They don't normally agree to do that, on the basic "non-changeable, non refundable, non-endorsable" type of ticket, entirely right.

 

When the AIRLINE is unable to put you on the flight you were scheduled on, THEIR obligations start, what the extent of those obligations are, we were trying to explain. Those obligations are laid down in international air law and treaties, so have to adhere to the minimum standards we described for all airlines whether they like it or not. It sounds to us as if the US carriers are trying to get out of their obligations under international air law by quoting non-endorsable as the magic word that will make all THEIR problems go away.

 

That's explained quite well in an earlier post. Celebrity has good words about Choice Air on their web site. The contract is to avoid law suits.

Kind of like the disclaimers you hear about medications. or if you have ever had surgery they explain that you might die, etc.

 

Celebrity wouldn't post this on their web site if they didn't have some intention of carrying it out. There has to be trust some where.

 

QUOTE FROM CELEBRITY SITE: When you book your airline tickets through ChoiceAir, you can rest assured that Celebrity will be there to support you before, during and after you travel. On the day of your travel, your flights will be monitored and, if there is a delay or schedule change, Celebrity will work with the airlines to "repair" the trip; to either get you to your port on an alternate flight, or if necessary, to the next available port. If your plans change our Celebrity Star Treatment is just a phone call away. Our ChoiceAir Support desk is available at 800-533-7803 to change or cancel ChoiceAir reservations and answer any questions you may have.

 

When we were flying to Seattle on Delta in Sept. we got stranded in Atlanta all day. This ticket was not inexpensive and was bought from Delta. They got us out on their first available flight, there were several earlier flights not available. There was no offer of another airline. Had it been cruise day we would have missed the cruise.

[greatam]

We really think you're missing the point here. The "non-endorsable" class ticket is what we buy all the time, because we KNOW what time we are going to travel, on what flight. When a ticket is "endorsed" that means the ticket desk of an other airline will agree to accept your ticket: at YOUR, the traveler's, request, for your reasons, not the airline's reasons.

They don't normally agree to do that, on the basic "non-changeable, non refundable, non-endorsable" type of ticket, entirely right.

 

When the AIRLINE is unable to put you on the flight you were scheduled on, THEIR obligations start, what the extent of those obligations are, we were trying to explain. Those obligations are laid down in international air law and treaties, so have to adhere to the minimum standards we described for all airlines whether they like it or not. It sounds to us as if the US carriers are trying to get out of their obligations under international air law by quoting non-endorsable as the magic word that will make all THEIR problems go away.

 

You obviously don't understand the US airline booking system/fare class system well. While what you post MAY apply to European carriers, the rules DO NOT apply to US carriers (which are the way most cruise air/Choice air tickets are booked UNLESS you are flying from Europe).

 

If what you post was so, you are stating that I could use my AA tickets from PHX/LHR or FRA and beyond AT MY DEMAND to board the BA nonstop flight from PHX to LHR. Hot d****!!! I will take your post to the AA desk the next time I book AA from Phoenix to London and beyond (the Middle East, via Dubai/Kuwait City on BA). I fly business class most of the time (business travel). I would LOVE to fly BA nonstop instead of AA out of Phoenix to LHR or FRA. MUCH better service. But that AIN'T gonna happen.

 

If AA cannot meet their commitment to get me from PHX through either ORD or JFK to LHR, they WILL put me on the nonstop BA flight out of PHX to LHR (has happened more than once). THAT is an ENDORSABLE ticket. IF it was non- ENDORSABLE, I would be waiting for the next AA flight to get me to London (it's actually the next day or spend the night in ORD or JFK), then on to the next BA flight to KWI.

 

I fly just too many miles per year to be BS'd about what an ENDORSABLE/non ENDORSABLE ticket is. I am a non practicing transportation attorney. I also own an international logistics business that deals with the airlines every day. What you say is partially true for the European airlines. NOT the US airlines. And no, they are NOT violating IATA.

[Ma Bell]

He said that their obligations begin when the AIRLINE cannot get you on their scheduled flight, not that you can just walk up and decide to take another airline just because you want to.

[greatam]

That's explained quite well in an earlier post. Celebrity has good words about Choice Air on their web site. The contract is to avoid law suits.

Kind of like the disclaimers you hear about medications. or if you have ever had surgery they explain that you might die, etc.

 

Celebrity wouldn't post this on their web site if they didn't have some intention of carrying it out. There has to be trust some where.

 

DID you read the fine print in the cruise contract?? DID you read the fine print at the BOTTOM of the page you keep referring to??? Please don't be deceived by what is on a WEBSITE. That is not a contract of law. It would not hold up in court. Websites change in the click of a mouse.

 

 

When we were flying to Seattle on Delta in Sept. we got stranded in Atlanta all day. This ticket was not inexpensive and was bought from Delta. They got us out on their first available flight, there were several earlier flights not available. There was no offer of another airline. Had it been cruise day we would have missed the cruise.

 

Did you have alternatives available?? When you miss a flight and are able to walk up to the desk or call on the phone and say "please rebook me on flight XXX with carrier YYYY" and your ticket is NOT a consolidator ticket, you are very, very often accommodated if there are seats available. IF you allow the airline to "find" what they can, you are put on the first available flight on the original airline. The airlines are NOT going to put you on another flight even if your ticket allows you to UNLESS you ask FOR A SPECIFIC flight. They generally DON'T volunteer BECAUSE it costs them money (tit for tat seat exchange). Research and KNOWING the alternatives gives everyone a leg up getting to their destination. DON'T rely on the airline. They are in business to save themselves money!!!

[greatam]

He said that their obligations begin when the AIRLINE cannot get you on their scheduled flight, not that you can just walk up and decide to take another airline just because you want to.

 

REREAD his/her post. NOT true.

 

"When a ticket is "endorsed" that means the ticket desk of an other airline will agree to accept your ticket: at YOUR, the traveler's, request, for your reasons, not the airline's reasons."

[UKBayern]

The contract is to avoid law suits.

 

Right, it is. Under international law some clauses may be void though.

And trust is good, control is better.;) Why agree to a contract where you have fewer rights than you could/should have?

Do you want to be in control or do want the other party to be?:rolleyes:

The airline delivering you to a connection point late :eek: has to fix the problem. HOWEVER in Europe they additionally have to pay compensation going up as your delay goes up:), so there is an extra incentive to get you on your way quickly.

Thats last bit is European airlaw. Not global. Trust me, DW studied International Law with Airlaw as one of her subjects of choice.

 

All airlines, globally, have at least the obligations outlined earlier.

 

See also post #24 and be an informed traveller, and in control of your own journey as possible.

[dzcruisers]

REREAD his/her post. NOT true.

 

"When a ticket is "endorsed" that means the ticket desk of an other airline will agree to accept your ticket: at YOUR, the traveler's, request, for your reasons, not the airline's reasons."

 

So you are saying I can buy an endorsed ticket on United and show up at a Delta counter for a flight and they will accept the ticket because I feel like it. Doesn't sound reasonable to me but I could be fooled.

 

 

I'll have to call an airline and ask.

[UKBayern]

REREAD his/her post. NOT true.

 

"When a ticket is "endorsed" that means the ticket desk of an other airline will agree to accept your ticket: at YOUR, the traveler's, request, for your reasons, not the airline's reasons."

 

 

 

:confused:

 

Let's try one last time:

 

You have a non-endorsable ticket.

YOU can not suddenly decide to change your plans to go on another airline

You have a non changeable ticket

YOU can not suddenly decide to change your plans to go at another time

 

"non-endorsable" translates as "can not be transferred to another airline or route if the traveller decides that would be a nice thing to do."

 

Apart from the airlaw, 11 years in the airlines. Please give a little bit of credit to someone offering honest advice.

 

I almost feel we are not all reading / writing the same English language:confused:

[UKBayern]

So you are saying I can buy an endorsed ticket on United and show up at a Delta counter for a flight and they will accept the ticket because I feel like it. Doesn't sound reasonable to me but I could be fooled.

 

 

I'll have to call an airline and ask.

 

Don't bother :D Dianne....

 

Doubt you could even buy an "endorsed" ticket in the sense we've been talking about, "endorsable" yes, at a premium price, but that is meant for when your plans are not fixed as often happens in business travel.

For us normal folk, we'll stick with the "non-refundable, non-endorsable";) because it is cheaper:o

 

Everybody: as long as we all get to our cruises on time all is as it should be:)

[Ma Bell]

Looks as though I did understand what you said.;)