How to AVOID children on cruises?

[Onessa]

There really aren't that many options, unfortunately. Besides, why should we not be able to cruise with lines we like? . . . I think that a lot of it boils down to respect and appropriate behavior on all sides.

 

There aren't too many options for families who choose to cruise either.

 

Why shouldn't families be able to cruise with lines that they like?

 

Just because a pax is under 20YO does not mean that they don't "deserve" to cruise.

 

To "Beach Chick" -- Some kids really ARE good. Two cruises ago, DD had developed friendships with a few other girls her age on the cruise. The parents gave the girls some freedom, but did check up on them occassionally. A non-related, somewhat elderly pax approached my DH and I as we were reading in a public area, and related a story about how she had seen my DD and her friends around the ship and how nice the girls always were to her -- holding doors, once offering to carry her tray to a table in the buffet area, and how they always smiled and said "hi".

 

On the same cruise one of two rather "goth" looking teen boys (they scared me a bit) sat holding the hand of a little boy who was crying and lost on deck while his friend was looking for the kid's mom or dad (the other teen approached me wondering if I knew the little boy or knew of anyone looking for a lost little one).

 

If you look for the "good" things rather than the "bad" maybe you'll see that you can be friends with your kids/grandkids and still not "spoil" them.

 

-- And to UKBayern her friends on that cruise (RCCI) were from Brussels Belgium and London. On our last cruise (X) her friends were from Milan and Rome (she could practice her Italian, they could practice their English).

[FINTUCKYFARMS]

Thanks for the replies. I guess in my ignorance, based on my own life experience, my parents wouldn't have taken me on a luxurious cruise vacation in a million years... I'd be left with grandma for the week. The kids don't appreciate it at all and by growing up with such vacations will never appreciate it as adults, either. I went on my first Europe trip at age 33 and if I had done it at age 16, as some do, I wouldn't have appreciated what I was really experiencing.

 

Nonetheless, some parents spoil their kids and take them on cruises... lesson learned :) It doesn't turn me off of cruising, but will make me look into planning more closely or just accepting the number of teens aboard.

 

P.S., this still doesn't excuse the packs of unsupervised kids below age 12, which were common sightings.

 

WOW!!! You really put your foot in it! Know thy audience :)

[beachchick]

There aren't too many options for families who choose to cruise either.

 

Why shouldn't families be able to cruise with lines that they like?

 

Just because a pax is under 20YO does not mean that they don't "deserve" to cruise.

 

To "Beach Chick" -- Some kids really ARE good. Two cruises ago, DD had developed friendships with a few other girls her age on the cruise. The parents gave the girls some freedom, but did check up on them occassionally. A non-related, somewhat elderly pax approached my DH and I as we were reading in a public area, and related a story about how she had seen my DD and her friends around the ship and how nice the girls always were to her -- holding doors, once offering to carry her tray to a table in the buffet area, and how they always smiled and said "hi".

 

On the same cruise one of two rather "goth" looking teen boys (they scared me a bit) sat holding the hand of a little boy who was crying and lost on deck while his friend was looking for the kid's mom or dad (the other teen approached me wondering if I knew the little boy or knew of anyone looking for a lost little one).

 

If you look for the "good" things rather than the "bad" maybe you'll see that you can be friends with your kids/grandkids and still not "spoil" them.

 

-- And to UKBayern her friends on that cruise (RCCI) were from Brussels Belgium and London. On our last cruise (X) her friends were from Milan and Rome (she could practice her Italian, they could practice their English).

 

There aren't too many options for families to cruise? Are you kidding? How many ships or cruises are adult-only? What percentage of ships are off limits to families with children? Have not the mass market lines gone out of their way to make ships that appeal to adults, young and old, and families with children of all ages?

 

I never said families with children shouldn't be allowed to cruise on the lines they prefer. I never even implied it. And when have I ever, in the history of my posting here, said that children, including those younger than 2, don't "deserve" to cruise? Never. In fact, I have often and repeatedly said that I believe cruising is an excellent option for a family vacation. Please tell me where you got the idea that I believed otherwise.

 

And again, where did I say or have I ever said that kids in general are bad? For crying out loud, I'm a parent and grandparent! I addressed specifically and only the idea that all the members here are good parents with good children because that was the general statement made by another member. I do not believe that all parents here are those ideal parents and I gave examples of why I think that. I certainly didn't say--ever--that all or even most parents, here or elsewhere, are bad or that all children misbehave.

 

No, I do not think parents should be their children's "best friends" while they are growing up. Children need their own best friends, as do parents. But where did you get the idea that being "friends" with our children is the only way to have a loving and friendly relationship with them? In a true friendship, each person is equal in every way; in parenting, we are still the parents and have the responsibility of being in charge, teaching our children, and making decisions that affect them. That does not mean we didn't have fun with our daughter when she was young. In does not mean that we didn't include her in decision making, when appropriate. It does not mean that we didn't love her, support her (not just financially), encourage her, and enjoy her. We absolutely did and she is a wonderful, loving adult who is also our friend.

 

Where on earth did you see that I look for the bad? I don't. I gave specific examples of types of posts to answer a specific statement. I didn't talk about behavior of children on ships or in general. And again, if you've read previous posts of mine, you'll remember that there have numerous times when I've posted in support or defense of children on cruises, giving specific examples of good behavior and good experiences with them. Sheesh. Just because we now prefer to cruise when there are fewer children onboard doesn't mean we hate children or think they are bad. (BTW, I never used the word spoil either. That was other members. If you want to respond to my specific posts, great. Just please don't lump other members ideas in with mine.)

 

beachchick

[beachchick]

Rats. Wanted to add this, but missed the edit window:

 

It is possible to have a loving and friendly relationship with our children without considering them "friends" in the adult sense of the word. Yes, it bothers me when parents say, "My child is my best friend" and are so concerned with that they do not act as parents for fear of making their child dislike them for a moment (such as saying the word "no" when necessary).

 

There is simply a difference between being friendly, loving, and supportive and treating your own child the way you would an adult friend. Now, when it comes to grandchildren, we're already enjoying the pleasures of not being the parent and have every intention of spoiling our granddaughter when appropriate.

 

beachchick

[Mack2]

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beachchick

 

Your posts above reflect my opinion that most posters here on Cruise Critic are responsible adults when it comes to rearing their children.

 

Admittedly, there are some inquiries about how to circumvent the drinking age and other things that most of us don't agree on, but our collective opinions are much more responsible than that of the folks that want to pound beers with their kids.

 

Nobody. Especially people who feel they are caring, loving parents wants to get lumped into the "Jerry Springer" worthy parents... even on an anonymous message board discussion.

 

I think the whole lot of the posters who frequent the family board regularly are pretty decent people.

[chipmaster]

The solution is very simple and common sense to me.

 

1) Have lots of money and time to go during non-traditional time periods

 

2) Book a premium line during say first week of December or 2nd week of December for winter. For spring I'd say 1st to second week of May, for summer first week of June or second week of Sept. During those times all the good parents will have their kids in school. You'll have the best of both worlds, cheap air fares, lightly booked cruises and fewer kids.

I think the more expensive and smaller the boat you book the more "adult" the experience you'll get.

 

Have money and time!

 

Of course there are always parents that do take their kids out of school for the deals so you will always find some kids on the mainstream lines during "school" season, who knows maybe those will be the worst :eek: or best behaving :D.

 

There's no specific forum that I can find that relates to this specific question. We just took a Royal Caribbean cruise during Spring Break to the Caribbean (7 days) and aboard we were told there were 1,300 teenagers. 1,300. Seriously. Some were 4 to a room and onboard with a "chaperone" couple responsible for 20+ teens.

 

That number doesn't account for the number of families with children aboard, many of whom were allowed to roam throughout the ship unsupervised. On more than one occasion I entered an elevator to find EVERY button pushed and I witnessed children SITTING in an elevator riding it up and down. As elderly guests waited in wheelchairs for elevators that seemed to never come, kids rode in them as amusement. The running in the halls, the unchecked voice volumes, babies crying, AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So, my question: Are there 21 and up cruises or cruise ships that specifically prohibit children from boarding? Because when I go on vacation, I want people who are like-minded and like-matured and I'd rather never go on a Spring Break cruise again if it's going to be like this.

 

-Michael, a.k.a. ZeroTX

[ddgleason]

What really concerns me is the fact that you are a teacher and you are making these generalizations (i.e. spoiled, ankle-biters, all teens are bad, etc.). As a teacher, you above all others, should know that you cannot make assumptions or sweeping generalizations like these. Surely, in your own classroom, you have students that are "good" and some that are not. Just because you ran into some kids on board that you thought were not well behaved does not mean that ALL kids on board are the same way. Just like at school, yes?

 

We just returned from our Carnival cruise yesterday. Yes, there were lots of kids on board. Yes, we saw some riding the glass elevators at times. My husband asked me why they were doing it and my response was, "Because they are kids and no one has told them to stop yet." As a teacher, you must know that there are kids out there that will constantly test the limits of what is allowed. If the elevator riding bothered you, why didn't you tell security? If you saw packs of kids unsupervised and they were bothering you, why didn't you report them?

 

You say you are limited as to what types of vacations you take because as a teacher you don't make tons of money, but you also say that you have vacationed in Europe and want to purchase land in Mexico. Seems a little oxymoronic. I understand about being limited in the times you can vacation. However, this is something you knew when you entered the profession, is it not?

 

I too am interested in why you posted your comments/questions on the family board. I don't think you have explained that part yet.

 

You also asked if any of us parents have ever managed a room of 35+ kids in a classroom before. Yes, I have. Every day. I am a teacher as well. A middle school teacher, in fact. Which is why your comments concern me so much. You really sound like you do not like kids at all (the name calling really bothers me). I hope I am wrong. I also hope you find a vacation that suits your needs. Good luck.

[ZeroTX]

What really concerns me is the fact that you are a teacher and you are making these generalizations (i.e. spoiled, ankle-biters, all teens are bad, etc.).

 

I never use, nor did I use the term "ankle-biters" ... I think you're confusing someone else's post. I actually don't understand what that term means, so never use it. Please scroll back and find that for me. I also never said nor implied that all teens are "bad" nor that all kids are spoiled.

 

If the elevator riding bothered you, why didn't you tell security? If you saw packs of kids unsupervised and they were bothering you, why didn't you report them?

 

Because it's not my responsibility to do so. It's the parents responsibility to set the limits, make the rules and enforce them with consequences. I'm not on duty on vacation. That's the parents' realm.

 

... but you also say that you have vacationed in Europe

 

Look who's judging now. We got a discount fare to Germany ($500 round trip) and stayed with a friend in their U.S. Army base housing in Kaiserslautern, ate most meals in their house/apartment, and drove a car to Paris and stayed in a discount hotel far from the action for a couple of days. You spent more on your cruise than our vacation cost.

 

Maybe a house or "townhouse," in a small Mexican city and it would cost substantially less than buying a house here in the U.S. For that matter "buying land" here in Texas isn't considered an activity limited to the rich. It's all dependent on location. Some of the poorest people in the United States own acreage. Your points are confusing.

 

Seems a little oxymoronic. I understand about being limited in the times you can vacation. However, this is something you knew when you entered the profession, is it not?

 

True, nothing I can do about that. However, I was shocked at the number of teens aboard the ship. I'm sorry if it offends you that I was shocked... and yes, based on dozens of conversations I was forced to be exposed to and behaviors I saw dozens of times, I'd say the vast majority of these cruise-enjoying teens were spoiled brats who had absolutely no appreciation of what they were experiencing. Visiting different countries? Sure, I guess they can tell their grandchildren how they were able to enjoy getting plastered at Señor Frogs in 3 different countries in the same week.

 

 

I too am interested in why you posted your comments/questions on the family board. I don't think you have explained that part yet.

 

I have actually, as have others. There's no forum here that addresses my concern, as it isn't a specifically RCCL issue and it made the most sense that those familiar with family cruising might know where the non-family-friendly cruising is from their own experiences. Imagine my logic.

 

You also asked if any of us parents have ever managed a room of 35+ kids in a classroom before. Yes, I have. Every day.

 

Most are not and have not. You know that.

 

You really sound like you do not like kids at all (the name calling really bothers me). I hope I am wrong. I also hope you find a vacation that suits your needs. Good luck.

 

I love kids and working with kids. If you will read more closely you'll find, again, I don't use derogatory terms for kids, such as "ankle-biters" (if I ever did, it was merely in quoting what someone else said, as that term is bizarre to me). But spoiled? That's hardly a judgment on childhood or children as a whole, but instead a condemnation of parental behavior.

 

This thread as far as I'm concerned has been resolved. I don't need any more chastising from parents, none of whom admit to being parents of kids like the ones I saw, despite the fact that this seems virtually impossible.

[mehitabel]

I was the one that used "ankle-biters", and I used it as a joke--I call my sisters' kids ankle-biters all the time, and neither they nor their parents find it offensive.

 

I, too, work with children. Middle-schoolers and high-schoolers, to be specific. I love kids and I love my work. HOWEVER, when I'm not working, when I get my brief vacations, I don't want to be thinking "If I were working with that kid, I'd ..." or "That looks like a fun game that that group of kids is playing. Maybe I should ...". I don't want to feel like I'm in job mode when I'm not.

 

I think all of Zero's points are valid, presented politely and tactfully, and not at all extreme. He hasn't insulted any of you or your kids, just pointed out observations that he, personally, has made.

[Cuizer2]

There's no specific forum that I can find that relates to this specific question. We just took a Royal Caribbean cruise during Spring Break to the Caribbean (7 days) and aboard we were told there were 1,300 teenagers. 1,300. Seriously. Some were 4 to a room and onboard with a "chaperone" couple responsible for 20+ teens.

 

That number doesn't account for the number of families with children aboard, many of whom were allowed to roam throughout the ship unsupervised. On more than one occasion I entered an elevator to find EVERY button pushed and I witnessed children SITTING in an elevator riding it up and down. As elderly guests waited in wheelchairs for elevators that seemed to never come, kids rode in them as amusement. The running in the halls, the unchecked voice volumes, babies crying, AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So, my question: Are there 21 and up cruises or cruise ships that specifically prohibit children from boarding? Because when I go on vacation, I want people who are like-minded and like-matured and I'd rather never go on a Spring Break cruise again if it's going to be like this.

 

-Michael, a.k.a. ZeroTX

 

You took a cruise on a family friendly line at a family friendly time. Of course there were lots of children.

 

You need to book longer cruises on less family friendly lines at less family friendly times.

 

If you want to avoid children I recommend:

 

1) Don't book Carnival, Disney, NCL or Royal Caribbean.

2) Book during the school year (not spring break, winter vacation or summer vacation).

3) Book longer cruises. Nine days or longer should keep the number of children on the cruise down.

 

I was on a two week cruise to Alaska in July and a two week cruise through the Panama Canal. On each of these cruises there were less than 20 children.

 

Even cruises taken during the school year on family friendly ships such as Carnival, Royal Caribbean and NCL will only have about 150 or so kids.

 

Book a less family friendly line such as HAL, Celebrity or Azamara during the school year and there might not be any children on the ship.

[ddgleason]

It looks like we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think taking children on a cruise makes them spoiled. I also doubt that every teen on board was out of control or misbehaved.

 

You really do not know how much any of us have spent on our cruises, just as I don't know how much you spent in Europe, as you pointed out. That works both ways. You are correct. I do not know how much your European vacations cost. Likewise, you do not know that I spent more on my cruise than you did in Europe.

 

I apologize if I accused you of using terms that were not yours.

 

As far as it being the parents' responsibility to control their children, of course it is. We all know that. But if there are kids that are being so out of control or disruptive to the point that is is affecting my vacation experience, I report them. That way the parents may have to become involved. It takes a lot to get me to report a kid, though. Most of the time, I see teens being teens and I tend to laugh at them. As I said, we just got off the Elation, and there were TONS of kids on board. Yes, there were teens running around and riding elevators. But, really, when you get down to it, they just didn't bother me that much. I guess that is where we differ.

 

Again, I hope you find a vacation experience that fits your desires. No harm, no foul.

[williamsk]

Just curious why this wasn't posted in the ask a cruise question forum?

 

It should have been taken off here anyway as soon as the spoiled teen post popped up. It's not informative anymore just stirring the pot in a forum that is designed to be primarily prochildren.

 

I admit I posted a knee jerk reply to that statement. The statement was pretty offensive and generalized (all teens on cruise = spoiled).

 

Enough already.... hopefully this thread will be removed, moved to general cruise questions, or die a natural death.

 

JMHO

[Onessa]

There aren't too many options for families to cruise? Are you kidding? How many ships or cruises are adult-only? What percentage of ships are off limits to families with children? Have not the mass market lines gone out of their way to make ships that appeal to adults, young and old, and families with children of all ages?

EXACTLY! - You state that there are cruises and activities for all ages of cruisers and for cruisers with and without families traveling with them. The opportunities for families traveling are definitely smaller than groups or individuals traveling without kids – because there are adults-only cruises, adults-only cruise lines, adults-only all-inclusive resorts, as well as lines and resorts that limit kid guests by age or other guidelines. Since there are not cruises, cruise lines or resorts that refuse to serve individuals who are not travelling accompanied by children, the opportunities for families traveling with kids are more limited to adult-only travelers.

 

Since families traveling with children often need to deal with the kids’ school schedule, travel options for families are further limited.

 

I never said families with children shouldn't be allowed to cruise on the lines they prefer. . . . Please tell me where you got the idea that I believed otherwise.

You suggest that the number of adult-only vacation opportunities is limited (“there really aren’t that many options”). And stated that you felt that you should be able to cruise with the lines you like – you do not indicate what is is that would be limiting your ability to cruise with the lines that you like – since this thread is about kids cruising the implication is that you are limited in cruising the lines you like because of the presence of kids.

 

What is going on is that there are people who may not be comfortable with certain other groups (or with the activities that may occur when a large percentage of individuals from those groups are on a cruise) – there is really no way of guaranteeing anyone a cruise free from any group – (except on the adults-only cruises).

 

And again, where did I say or have I ever said that kids in general are bad? . . .

If a poster chimes in on a thread congratulating herself on how she is able to avoid children that poster is showing her hand. People generally actively avoid things that they do not care for. Since you go out of your way to avoid kids . . . ..

 

You mock the posters on this board when you state “Granted almost every single parent here claims to have "very mature" children who are ‘extremely well behaved’ and who ‘are great travelers’” “Granted” we must all just be “claiming” our kids are good? You may not “lump” us into any generalization but your phrasing certainly implies else wise. By your phrasing of stating that “still” there are posters who ask about inappropriate behavior, you imply that the posters who do think that their kids are good travelers are in some way suspect.

 

I for one will respect and trust my DD. I will count her among my friends (even now when she is merely a child). I will continue to teach her to respect others and will encourage her to interact with adults so that she can learn and mature. I will continue to include my dining table mates in conversations (even when they are kids), I will not consider the 8YO in front of me in line to be someone who I am more important than and will not “skip” in front of him just because I am an adult, I will hold the door for the 12YO behind me, etc. I will continue to seek out ways to reach out to and/or help others and will not let that person’s age impact my interaction with him or her.

 

Your posts make it appear that, at best, you tolerate well behaved children. You avoid situations where there are kids – sailing when there are fewer kids and seeking out places where only adults are allowed. There is nothing wrong with any of that – it is all very healthy ways of dealing with a situation that you do not care for – but don’t try to present yourself as someone who does not have a “side” here. You avoid kids, you judge parents behavior, you judge kids behavior.

[Onessa]

I also never said nor implied that all teens are "bad" nor that all kids are spoiled.

 

. . . I'd say the vast majority of these cruise-enjoying teens were spoiled brats . . .

 

nuf said

[MrsZee]

The dead horse is dead. Time to stop beating it. I believe I will be unsubscribing to this post. The OP has time and again come on here and apologized for how he sounded, so maybe we should leave him be.

[Eclipsepearl]

A vacation is a very personal thing. If the OP doesn't want a lot of kids on his cruise, that's valid. I wont justify everything he said but travel should be enjoyed. If he wont with children around, he needs to take measures to be on a cruise with fewer kids.

 

I kind of relate because I had kids later in life and have been to 50 countries, most of that pre-procreation. I've always loved kids but I've had them kick my airplane seat and throw up on me. I definitely have more tolerance for them now that I'm a mom. My child-loving sister can't have children and sometimes she'll just snap at one of mine, doing something I hadn't even noticed.

 

It's just a different mind-set, even older parents who are out of the baby-buzz...

 

I just want to second the suggestion of longer cruises and cruising further away. Also of choosing less "family friendly" lines.

 

I'm in Europe and our schools don't get out till late June/early July. If you jump on any Med cruise in early summer, you will not only have fewer kids on board but fewer crowds in the ports (big plus in the Med since August is packed everywhere).

 

Pick somewhere besides the Caribbean and check the school schedule for that part of the world. You'll have a better chance of having fewer pint sized fellow passengers.

 

On my cruise to Antarctica, I was the youngest paying passenger-at age 33 lol!

[ajenali]

Thanks for the replies. I guess in my ignorance, based on my own life experience, my parents wouldn't have taken me on a luxurious cruise vacation in a million years... I'd be left with grandma for the week. The kids don't appreciate it at all and by growing up with such vacations will never appreciate it as adults, either. I went on my first Europe trip at age 33 and if I had done it at age 16, as some do, I wouldn't have appreciated what I was really experiencing.

 

Nonetheless, some parents spoil their kids and take them on cruises... lesson learned :) It doesn't turn me off of cruising, but will make me look into planning more closely or just accepting the number of teens aboard.

 

P.S., this still doesn't excuse the packs of unsupervised kids below age 12, which were common sightings.

 

Cruise with me and my 12 yr old daughter. I'm being serious. She would rather sit down and have a conversation with you about the countries she has visited then to go get a scoop of soft serve. As a single parent, I often get crude remarks about "wasting money" on vacations instead of hoarding it in a savings account. I grew up a military brat and traveled the world for the first 20 years of my life and I always said that my children were going to see as much of the world as I could afford. Compare my daughter to her friends: by the time she is 13 she will have been to 5 states, 3 countries and had her passport stamped 7 times. Her friends? six flags in Georgia, the highlight of their year. As a teacher, you should also take into consideration us parents who take our kids on these "extravagant cruises" are providing an extra educational opportunity! my daughter who absolutely detests history class has managed to finish out the year with a 96 because the cruises that she has been on gave her an opportunity to learn about other cultures that has been studied in class - information she already knew! Coming from a parent or not - I think that is pretty awesome!!!

[beachchick]

EXACTLY! - You state that there are cruises and activities for all ages of cruisers and for cruisers with and without families traveling with them. The opportunities for families traveling are definitely smaller than groups or individuals traveling without kids – because there are adults-only cruises, adults-only cruise lines, adults-only all-inclusive resorts, as well as lines and resorts that limit kid guests by age or other guidelines. Since there are not cruises, cruise lines or resorts that refuse to serve individuals who are not travelling accompanied by children, the opportunities for families traveling with kids are more limited to adult-only travelers.

 

Since families traveling with children often need to deal with the kids’ school schedule, travel options for families are further limited.

 

Okay, but I wasn't talking about adult-only vacation options, I was referring to the fact that the options for adult-only cruises are limited. I was addressing only cruises because that was the subject.

 

You suggest that the number of adult-only vacation opportunities is limited (“there really aren’t that many options”). And stated that you felt that you should be able to cruise with the lines you like – you do not indicate what is is that would be limiting your ability to cruise with the lines that you like – since this thread is about kids cruising the implication is that you are limited in cruising the lines you like because of the presence of kids.

 

Again, I did not suggest that the number of adult-only vacation opportunities is limited, I suggested that the number of adult-only cruises and cruise lines is limited. I was responding directly to a member stating that those who prefer to cruise with fewer children onboard should simply go on adult-only cruises or premium lines (which have fewer children on them).

 

Nothing at all is stopping or has ever stopped us from cruising with the lines we like. We simply cruise during times of year when school is in session. I didn't imply that we don't cruise with the lines we want to cruise with. I was responding directly to another member's post telling others to basically "go somewhere else" if they are looking to find how to cruise when there are fewer children onboard. I asked why anyone should do that if they like a cruise line and are simply looking for the best options for cruising when fewer children will be on the cruise.

 

What is going on is that there are people who may not be comfortable with certain other groups (or with the activities that may occur when a large percentage of individuals from those groups are on a cruise) – there is really no way of guaranteeing anyone a cruise free from any group – (except on the adults-only cruises).

 

Now this I agree with completely. If someone wants a guarantee that there will be no children onboard, then obviously many cruise lines are not the right ones for them.

 

If a poster chimes in on a thread congratulating herself on how she is able to avoid children that poster is showing her hand. People generally actively avoid things that they do not care for. Since you go out of your way to avoid kids . . . ..

 

You could not be more wrong. I'm not "showing my hand" in any way, which is to say I've never "hidden" my hand. I actively avoid many things I do not care for. I do not "go out of my way to avoid kids"--I go out of my way to avoid cruises when there are likely 1,000 children onboard (say, spring break or holiday time). Do you truly not see the difference here? You assume it means we "don't care for" children? That's rather insulting. You know that I'm a parent and grandparent, right? I also have a niece (just turned 16, "sweet" usually and a drama queen sometimes) and nephew (13 and a wonderful guy). And I taught grade school back in my younger years; I loved it. As well, I spent many years working with a local children's theater group; so much fun and I miss it.

 

If by "congratulating" myself you are referring to my direct response about where to find quiet places on Voyager...excuse me for answering a member's specific question about that. There will be children onboard Voyager, great. ZeroTX was hoping to find quiet places onboard. I gave some examples of places we found on Mariner. Yes, I suppose "good for me" that I know these things. I also know where the fun "everyone, children and adults alike" places are, as well as the "this is great for children" places are.

You mock the posters on this board when you state “Granted almost every single parent here claims to have "very mature" children who are ‘extremely well behaved’ and who ‘are great travelers’” “Granted” we must all just be “claiming” our kids are good? You may not “lump” us into any generalization but your phrasing certainly implies else wise. By your phrasing of stating that “still” there are posters who ask about inappropriate behavior, you imply that the posters who do think that their kids are good travelers are in some way suspect.

 

No, I do not mock anyone here. I can't help the way you interpreted what I wrote. Once again, I was repsonding specifically to Mack2, who wrote that members here are, by definition of being members here, good parents who don't want to be lumped in with the bad ones. My statement remains the same: Not all parents on CC are the terrific parents with great children. I believe most are, but that doesn't mean everyone is.

 

I for one will respect and trust my DD. I will count her among my friends (even now when she is merely a child). I will continue to teach her to respect others and will encourage her to interact with adults so that she can learn and mature. I will continue to include my dining table mates in conversations (even when they are kids), I will not consider the 8YO in front of me in line to be someone who I am more important than and will not “skip” in front of him just because I am an adult, I will hold the door for the 12YO behind me, etc. I will continue to seek out ways to reach out to and/or help others and will not let that person’s age impact my interaction with him or her.

 

I assume then that you think I would "skip in front" of an 8-y/o or that I wouldn't hold the door of a 12-y/o? Wrong. But really, this relates to treating a child, that is someone treating their own child, as their "best friend" how? The behavior you mention goes back to the whole mutual respect thing and is not at all the same thing.

 

Your posts make it appear that, at best, you tolerate well behaved children. You avoid situations where there are kids – sailing when there are fewer kids and seeking out places where only adults are allowed. There is nothing wrong with any of that – it is all very healthy ways of dealing with a situation that you do not care for – but don’t try to present yourself as someone who does not have a “side” here. You avoid kids, you judge parents behavior, you judge kids behavior.

 

I'm really boggled by this. True, we "do not care" to be on cruises when 1/3 of the passengers are under 18. The fact that we have raised our child and now prefer to cruise when there are fewer children onboard does not mean we do not care for children. It means we don't care to be surrounded by them on cruises. When we visit Disney, we expect to have lots of children around. When we go to the beach or camping, we expect to see and hear many children having fun. When we take our granddaughter to the park, we enjoy being surrounding by happy children. These are different activities.

 

I actually don't have a "side" here because I think it's equally acceptable to want to cruise with fewer children and to want to cruise when many families with children onboard. Neither is right or wrong; both are preferences. I do not avoid kids; I avoid large groups of children on cruises, which is not the same as always avoiding children. Of course I judge parents behavior, which is sometimes difficult on a forum because we often don't have a full picture or "hear" inflections/tone, and so on. You certainly do seem to feel free to judge me by either selectively reading my posts or possibly by not "hearing" me. Of course I judge kids behavior, but I only "judge" behavior I see or hear.

 

I'm guessing that you either have never read many of my posts about children or have forgotten them. I've often related stories of good interactions with children onboard. I've frequently defended parents who cruise with young children, especially when they have been scolded by members who say things like "leave the children home, they won't remember the cruise, they're too much work, blah-blah-blah" because I truly believe that cruises are and can be a fantastic, perhaps ideal, family vacation. I don't know how many times over the years I have chided other members for attacking parents who ask questions about cruising with their children.

 

Sadly though, I fear all this will fall not on "deaf ears," but on ears that are so defensive that they don't "hear" what I've said, either now or in the past. (Not that you don't have some cause to be automatically defensive against the notion that some people prefer to cruise with few (or even no) children onboard because there are members here who don't think children belong on cruises and who do attack parents for the very idea of it. I am not one of them.)

 

beachchick

[Onessa]

Sadly though, I fear all this will fall not on "deaf ears," but on ears that are so defensive that they don't "hear" what I've said, either now or in the past. (Not that you don't have some cause to be automatically defensive against the notion that some people prefer to cruise with few (or even no) children onboard because there are members here who don't think children belong on cruises and who do attack parents for the very idea of it. I am not one of them.)

 

It is years of seeing "beach chick" chiming in on all of the "kids on cruises" posts that leads me to me knee jerk reaction when I see your handle.

 

While I appreciate that you believe that your posts are positive -- I just have not interpreted them that way over the years. That's part of the problem with the written word -- no inflection, no facial expressions (apart from the occassional :o or :confused:) -- makes me read you over as history as someone who pretends to support kids, but seems to always have so many "buts" and "even thoughs" and terms like "claims" that I read you as anti-kids pretending to be ok with kids (its the kind of with the "just not in my backyard" undertone. you know everyone likes green energy until someone proposes to put a giant wind turbine next door to their house. You seem to think kids are ok on cruises, but you always qualify it with the "NIMBY" comments -- it's just off-putting).

 

That's just my impression of your posts, I'm certain my ipression would be different if I knew you in person (could be a better impression or it could be worse who knows:eek:)

[Julienatul]

We have and will continue to cruise with our kids. We find it the most family friendly, cost effective vacation for our lifestyle. Both my husband and I work full-time and want to enjoy ourselves as a family on vacation. We enjoy having the kids with us. I think the problem comes with the perception of a cruise. Long ago it used to be known as a "luxurious vacation" reserved for adults and all prim and proper. Nowadays things have changed, more and more families have adopted cruising and the cruiselines have begun to cater to them along with the adults. Cruising is no longer just for "adults" and really never was. I started cruising back in the 80's on some of the first carnival ships when I was a child. We all need to get along and for those of us cruising with families, respect the adult only areas and expect our children to behave in a public setting as they should. Adults cruising alone need to respect the families and there choice to cruise as a family. Lets all enjoy our vacations and get along!!

[BO HANSON]

WOW!!! You really put your foot in it! Know thy audience :)

I've grown to accept my generation gap. I can't pay 10 cents to get into a movie anymore either............True story.

[sharky23]

Hey Zero, your name fits.

[beachchick]

It is years of seeing "beach chick" chiming in on all of the "kids on cruises" posts that leads me to me knee jerk reaction when I see your handle.

 

While I appreciate that you believe that your posts are positive -- I just have not interpreted them that way over the years. That's part of the problem with the written word -- no inflection, no facial expressions (apart from the occassional :o or :confused:) -- makes me read you over as history as someone who pretends to support kids, but seems to always have so many "buts" and "even thoughs" and terms like "claims" that I read you as anti-kids pretending to be ok with kids (its the kind of with the "just not in my backyard" undertone. you know everyone likes green energy until someone proposes to put a giant wind turbine next door to their house. You seem to think kids are ok on cruises, but you always qualify it with the "NIMBY" comments -- it's just off-putting).

 

That's just my impression of your posts, I'm certain my ipression would be different if I knew you in person (could be a better impression or it could be worse who knows:eek:)

 

Okay, I get it. Basically, you've decided I'm a liar. That helps me understand your point of view. I mean seriously, I don't get how you could possibly interpret my "we've never experienced any serious problems with children on cruises and here's a good story about some good kids I encountered" as anything other than that. And I guess you probably think I'm lying about being a parent. Our lovely daughter will be surprised to learn she doesn't exist...as will her own cute toddler.

 

BTW, I do not chime in on "all" the threads about kids on cruises. I post on ones that I have an opinion or experience about. I only started coming to this forum when we learned we were going to be grandparents. I knew we'd want to keep apprised of children's concerns because we'll probably take our DGD on her first cruise next year.

 

Feel free to be off-put by me. How about you just put me on ignore so that I don't offend you further? I think I should probably do the same.

 

beachchick

[MIAMIMEDIA]

Thanks for the replies. I guess in my ignorance, based on my own life experience, my parents wouldn't have taken me on a luxurious cruise vacation in a million years... I'd be left with grandma for the week. The kids don't appreciate it at all and by growing up with such vacations will never appreciate it as adults, either. I went on my first Europe trip at age 33 and if I had done it at age 16, as some do, I wouldn't have appreciated what I was really experiencing.

 

Nonetheless, some parents spoil their kids and take them on cruises... lesson learned :) It doesn't turn me off of cruising, but will make me look into planning more closely or just accepting the number of teens aboard.

 

P.S., this still doesn't excuse the packs of unsupervised kids below age 12, which were common sightings.

 

Just because families go on a vacation on a cruise ship does not mean that are spoiling their kids. My children work hard and excel in their responsibilities and deserve a vacation. Since I am able to afford a cruise for our family that is what we choose. AND....Some parents choose not to leave their kids for a week with anyone including their grandparents. WE ARE A FAMILY!!! Or some people do not have anyone to leave the kids with, even if they wanted to. At 16 many teenagers do appreciate traveling. A person's life experiences do not increase in value because of their chronological age.

I do agree that children should not be left unsupervised. They should accompanied by an adult until they are an adults. If you children are a burden to you on vacation then you should not have brought them.

But... bottom line, Everyone should raise their kids like they wish unless it impacts they way someone else chooses to live their life.

[Warm Breezes]

Just because families go on a vacation on a cruise ship does not mean that are spoiling their kids. My children work hard and excel in their responsibilities and deserve a vacation. Since I am able to afford a cruise for our family that is what we choose. AND....Some parents choose not to leave their kids for a week with anyone including their grandparents. WE ARE A FAMILY!!! Or some people do not have anyone to leave the kids with, even if they wanted to. At 16 many teenagers do appreciate traveling. A person's life experiences do not increase in value because of their chronological age.

 

I do agree that children should not be left unsupervised. They should accompanied by an adult until they are an adults. If you children are a burden to you on vacation then you should not have brought them.

 

But... bottom line, Everyone should raise their kids like they wish unless it impacts they way someone else chooses to live their life.

 

I agreed with you up to here. I have a DS(15) and a DD(13), if they want to go get ice cream, play some B-ball, go mini-golfing, go to the arcade, play ping pong etc. I will let them go off and do it. They are old enough and mature enough to know how to behave and I have never had anyone complain to me about their behavior. I have only received compliments about their behavior from teachers, principals, coaches and complete strangers. They have earned my trust to be able to go off on their own and do these activities. They are definately not a burden, but I am not going to curtail their freedom to keep them by my side the whole time. They do not like doing the teen clubs so if I were to do what you suggest and supervise them until they were adults, then we would have to be together 24/7. Not going to happen. While it is a family vacation, we don't need to be together 24/7. I trust my kids enough to give them the freedom to do the activities they enjoy without my looking over their shoulder. They haven't let me down yet.