***Norovirus Press Release ICCL

[newmexicoNita]

Happy ks, thanks for your input. I don't remember hearing about any outbreak on th following cruise so would have to think the number was closer to the reported number of sick rather than the 1000, wouldn't you? You are correct about hand washing isn't the only precausion, but it does do a long way. thanks again, NMNita

[okatie jack]

My estimate of 1000 sick was just that, an estimate. Do you really think anyone could come up with hard data? I am not a doctor nor a statistician. My figures were based upon talking with other passengers and extrapolating the number of people from my group of 64 who were sick. Over 1/3rd. I also mingled with others during the cruise and in many cases I was informed that there were a lot of people sick at the various tables occupied by these people. You ask why should anyone believe me? My answer is that I really do not care if you think my numbers are credible or not. I do feel that I would be irresponsible if I did not report what I felt was an enormous number of people sick on this ship. BTW I never said I was sick because I was not. So I did not "pick it up in my salad" as you say. And in fact I am not part of the lawsuit since I was not damaged. My wife did get sick however and she chooses not to participate in any Class Action that may or may not develop. What I tried to point out is that the "imprisioning of passengers" is an incorrect response if the object is to get the sick people away from the people who are not sick. There has to be a better way to handle situations like this. The 3 day quarantine SIMPLY DOES NOT WORK!!! PERIOD!! BTW I never asked for any compensation at all from RCCL. I do not want any. My motivation for posting this disaster was simply to inform other people of what happened on this particular cruise and let them make up their own mind. I have no desire to punish the cruise line, cruisers or anyone else. You are all adults capable of making your own decisions.

[quote name='nrdsb4']I have already stated that I do not whether you contracted your illness due to negligence or bad luck. The fact is, neither do you. For all you know, RCI singled you out and a waiter put a good old dose of norwalk in your salad just out of spite. Possibly, you picked it up after pushing an elevator button or touching a handrail on the stairs 10 minutes after the handrail was cleaned. It is impossible in retrospect to know for sure. Your 1-in3 passengers sick is a huge number which you have given absolutely no data to support. Why should anyone believe you? As a nurse, I am probably overly biased against anecdotal evidence and look hard for solid evidence as my entire working life revolves around careful documentation with supporting details. It's no surprise that you don't want anyone to ask you how you got the 1000 number because there is no doubt in my mind that you cannot possibly support it with any evidence. Your lawsuit, however, will require more than an angry bitter passenger claiming she is "certain."

You are right that I was not on your ship - I have made absolutely no claims about the amount of cleaning that was done on your cruise. That will be addressed in your lawsuit, and the cruise line will have the opportunity to state their case. You have admitted that you have only been on one cruise, yet you make sweeping statements about the relative safety of cruises in general having presented absolutely no research to back up your statements. The numbers speak for themselves that mind boggling numbers of people cruise every year and very few get ill, even if we concede your point that there are people who do fall ill that don't report it (you are undoubtedly correct on this point, though it is impossible for you or anyone else for that matter to know what the actual numbers are). Do you know how many people get ill after flying? No, and no one else does, either; however, the anecdotal evidence we know of suggests the numbers are large. Will you stop flying? Should we hold the airlines responsible for what we are "virtually certain of" in spite of the lack of any supporting data? If you can get that done, kudos to you, because I for one get tired of getting colds after flying and wish there was a better way to avoid them other than wearing a mask on every flight.

You are obviously justifiably disappointed in your experience. It may turn out to be the case that RCI was guilty of gross negligence on this ship. But you are wrongly painting the whole cruising industry with a very broad brush. You will probably get no argument that there are certainly areas in which the cruise industry could improve in order to reduce the spread of communicable diseases. But you are completely ignoring the aspect of personal responsibility and therefore show your lack of understanding of epidemiology. The fact is that the cruise industry could do everything possible to eliminate this illness. Airlines, hotels, and convention venues could all do the same meticulous cleaning of every surface every hour on the hour. But if individuals refuse to do their part, it is a losing battle. All you have to do is stand in a public bathroom in any venue, cruiseship or no, and watch the numbers of people who do not take responsibility for their own and others' health as they walk right by the sink and head out the door. This fact alone is a huge reason why this illness continues to perpetuate itself. I have cruised many times and enjoyed good health and wonderful times. I prefer land trips to cruises and do that more often. I have gotten ill on several land based vacations throughout my lifetime. Should I generalize and say vacations just aren't safe? Shall I sue the hotel every time I come down with a virus while on vacation?

As far as RCI's policy of "imprisoning passengers," give me a break. You conveniently ignored the CDC link I posted in response to your complaint about the length of the quarantine which states very clearly that patients are contagious from 3 days to 2 weeks after RECOVERY. This statement essentially requires the cruise lines to quarantine afflicted passengers for this period of time. If they didn't, they would certainly be setting themselves up for litigation from someone who would claim that they were sickened due to the cruise line's refusal to apply the CDC's guidelines for quarantine. It would, however, be a nice gesture if the cruise lines would provide compensation for those quarantined as it would increase good will and improve the liklihood of more accurate reporting.

I would be very bummed if my vacation was ruined. But life goes on. Spewing bitterness and perputal finger pointing does nothing to change the facts of life. Do your homework and you will find that risks of cruising are not as dire as you would have us believe. Many people will continue to cruise and most will come back just as healthy as they were the day they boarded, albeit a few pounds heavier.

I'm not a RCI apologist, I personally think it's just an okay line and will probably try a different one next time, but I'm not naive to believe I will be any more or any less safe on another line. Cruising is not a dangerous endeavor, but anyone who wants an absolute guarantee really should consider another vacation.[/QUOTE]

[beachlover24]

Amen Otie,
That is exactly right. I too have not asked for any compensation. BTW They say that you can be contagious for up to 2 weeks, so if people are "quarantined" for 72 hours, how does this help? That sad thing is most felt perfectly fine within 12hours of this and were still confined for 3 days even though the CDC says it can take up to 2 weeks. It is all hogwash to me. Make sure you watch Prime Time Live tomorrow night, a couple from our cruise and one from Holland American will be on. They did an undercover investigation the week after we got off this ship.

[ORANGEinINDY]

[quote name='beachlover24']Amen Otie,
That is exactly right. I too have not asked for any compensation. BTW They say that you can be contagious for up to 2 weeks, so if people are "quarantined" for 72 hours, how does this help? That sad thing is most felt perfectly fine within 12hours of this and were still confined for 3 days even though the CDC says it can take up to 2 weeks. It is all hogwash to me. Make sure you watch Prime Time Live tomorrow night, a couple from our cruise and one from Holland American will be on. They did an undercover investigation the week after we got off this ship.[/QUOTE]

Any details on the Primetime Live show? Its on 24 Feb 2005?

[1corona4u]

Some of you people seem to have all the answers. Why don't you enlighten us as to what YOU think would be the thing for them to do? Perhaps they should screen ALL passengers before they board for illness? Or maybe they should just let anyone who is sick stay in YOUR cabin, huh??

Just from most of your comments, I can only imagine that you are the kind of people who would NOT stay in their cabin when they were sick, please don't bother to try to convince me otherwise, your post speak VOLUMES.

This is the mentality that causes problems. People who [b]feel [/b]"fine", when they aren't. I don't get why you don't seem to believe what MANY on this thread have said about the length of it being contagious. Do you really think you all know more than the medical professionals that have posted here, and the DR's onboard????
Simply amazes me, some of the comments in this thread.

[nrdsb4]

Amen Otie,

That is exactly right. I too have not asked for any compensation. BTW They say that you can be contagious for up to 2 weeks, so if people are "quarantined" for 72 hours, how does this help? That sad thing is most felt perfectly fine within 12hours of this and were still confined for 3 days even though the CDC says it can take up to 2 weeks. It is all hogwash to me. Make sure you watch Prime Time Live tomorrow night, a couple from our cruise and one from Holland American will be on. They did an undercover investigation the week after we got off this ship.

 

The reason for the 72 hour quarantine is that 3 days is the more typical contagious period, not 2 weeks. They settle on the lower number so that they can say they have followed CDC guidelines. In the medical profession, it is what we call "Standard of Care." In lawsuits, if you establish that you have met the "standard of care," you cannot be considered negligent. I'm sorry if policies developed by medical professionals who spend their entire careers studying this very issue is "hogwash" to you. I don't know what credentials you have that would convince you that you know more than those that have spent years studying these illnesses are, but more power to you.

 

By the way, "feeling fine" has never been an indicator of whether someone is contagious or not. My best friend felt perfectly fine also when she exposed me to her influenza virus a few years ago. I ended up with the worst case I've ever had and for a day or so felt I would glady agree to be put out of my misery. I have never again brushed off the flu vaccine as unnecessary again.

 

Good luck and healthy cruising.

[1corona4u]

The reason for the 72 hour quarantine is that 3 days is the more typical contagious period, not 2 weeks. They settle on the lower number so that they can say they have followed CDC guidelines. In the medical profession, it is what we call "Standard of Care." In lawsuits, if you establish that you have met the "standard of care," you cannot be considered negligent. I'm sorry if policies developed by medical professionals who spend their entire careers studying this very issue is "hogwash" to you. I don't know what credentials you have that would convince you that you know more than those that have spent years studying these illnesses are, but more power to you.

 

By the way, "feeling fine" has never been an indicator of whether someone is contagious or not. My best friend felt perfectly fine also when she exposed me to her influenza virus a few years ago. I ended up with the worst case I've ever had and for a day or so felt I would glady agree to be put out of my misery. I have never again brushed off the flu vaccine as unnecessary again.

 

Good luck and healthy cruising.

 

THANK YOU!!!

[okatie jack]

Perhaps just perhaps cruising is just NOT A SAFE PLACE TO VACATION ESPECIALLY DURING THESE PERIODS IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY. The response of the cruise line to quarantine for three days DOES NOT WORK!! Maybe there is NO WAY to prevent this illness from spreading to large numbers of passengers confined to a vessel. And perhaps that it why you will not see any intellegent response as to what the cruise line should do. I personally think that they CANNOT DO ANYTHING TO PREVENT THE SPREAD OF A VIRUS ONCE IT IS PRESENT ON THE SHIP. That being the case, what the cruise line should be made to do is publish warnings during these vulnerable periods admitting that the possibilty of getting sick and it spreading to large numbers of passengers is VERY REAL!! This way at least people would be aware of these conditions, a fact of which I was totally unaware before I took my first cruise.

 

Some of you people seem to have all the answers. Why don't you enlighten us as to what YOU think would be the thing for them to do? Perhaps they should screen ALL passengers before they board for illness? Or maybe they should just let anyone who is sick stay in YOUR cabin, huh??

 

Just from most of your comments, I can only imagine that you are the kind of people who would NOT stay in their cabin when they were sick, please don't bother to try to convince me otherwise, your post speak VOLUMES.

 

This is the mentality that causes problems. People who feel "fine", when they aren't. I don't get why you don't seem to believe what MANY on this thread have said about the length of it being contagious. Do you really think you all know more than the medical professionals that have posted here, and the DR's onboard????

Simply amazes me, some of the comments in this thread.

[ORANGEinINDY]

Well... the Primetime Live last night was a waste of my time. All of their hype about cruises and it turns out that what they found is that the cruise staterooms are about like hotel rooms. It appeard to me they did not find the evidence they wanted, but aired the story anyway.

 

Sure there was a lot of disgusting things they showed, but its the "Center for DESIESE Control" not the "Center for DISGUSTING Control". If you watched the previews for this show, you'd think they found viral contamination everywhere... but that was not the case.

 

It showed that if you want to avoid the disgusting things shown, dont avoid Cruise Vacations, avoid Vacations.

[newmexicoNita]

Perhaps just perhaps cruising is just NOT A SAFE PLACE TO VACATION ESPECIALLY DURING THESE PERIODS IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY. The response of the cruise line to quarantine for three days DOES NOT WORK!! Maybe there is NO WAY to prevent this illness from spreading to large numbers of passengers confined to a vessel. And perhaps that it why you will not see any intellegent response as to what the cruise line should do. I personally think that they CANNOT DO ANYTHING TO PREVENT THE SPREAD OF A VIRUS ONCE IT IS PRESENT ON THE SHIP. That being the case, what the cruise line should be made to do is publish warnings during these vulnerable periods admitting that the possibilty of getting sick and it spreading to large numbers of passengers is VERY REAL!! This way at least people would be aware of these conditions, a fact of which I was totally unaware before I took my first cruise.

 

I think if you do your homework you will find the largest outbreak over weeks on end was in late summer and early fall of 2001 not Jan and Feb. The only ourbreak really being referred to this year is the one you are continually talking about with 1000? affected or is that infected? For some I would suspect cruising isn't for you. NMNita

[newmexicoNita]

My chuckle for the day: cruise ships should post warnings: maybe they should just stop cruising during the "virus season" which is from June to May 31st I beleive. NMNIta

[mbisson]

I am sure it was transmitted through touch once it started -SNIP- And explain to me how some got it horribly for 3 days at a time and their spouses never got it. .

 

Honest officer, I never touched her!

 

-Monte

[Turn4]

Why is all the blame on the cruise lines? Acouple weeks ago, 150 students at St Joseph University in NJ had noro. Did the school close down? Did they refund the sick and non-sick students? What about the poor overpaid professors who had to show up each day to a possible problem? Acouple months ago there were two hotels in Las Vegas which had a breakout of noro.

 

Noro could break out at your place of business and you carry it home. You can get sick anywhere. People should start taking responsibility and stop putting the blame on some one else, some one else should stop this... If the cruise line shut down, then the masses would be complaining about not being able to cruise when 'they' wanted.

[lmrk205]

Hi all! I've just been reading all your posts. We just got back from a cruise on Carnival Imagination where our two children got sick and were quarantined for two days. I know all about the hand washing and all that stuff and we do that but they still got sick. What bothers me the most is the way we were treated. They did nothing to help us or try and make us feel comfortable. If we needed something it was always a hassle. I had to fight with my room steward to give me a bottle of disinfectant so I could spray the room so we could breathe. I could go on for hours about the incompetent crew but I won't. As for the cleanliness of the ship....that's another story. Our room was not cleaned properly till the third day when we could smell the bleach but even then they did not clean the door handles. I know this because there was a stain on the door right next to the handle that I thought was just that, a stain. When paranoia took over and I went around the room with the disinfectant cleaning things the stain disappeared. This just made my paranoia worse! I noticed everything after that. Like the fact that they NEVER cleaned any of the handrails on board for the five days we were there. They cleaned the glass under the handrails but not the handrails. They were so slimy and sticky and gross! I just walked around with Purell cleaning our hands constantly. I pushed elevator buttons with my knuckles and used my sleeve or a towel to open doors. I was so skeeved!

So I would have to say that it is the Cruise lines fault. I think they should have to dock for at least one day between cruises to THOROUGHLY clean the ship. There is no way anyone can convince me that the ship is clean when we get on board. I didn't get off that ship till 10:00 and they let people on earlier than 1:30 like they say. We were on by 11:30. I would have to guess it would take a little longer than that to clean the ship!

Anyway I think we will stick to land from now on. Good luck to you all!