Marriage License Carnival's Response

[Kurbanfan]

ummm, no you haven't. It's "impossible.";):d

 

lmao!!!

[cathy_kearns]

You didn't find it because a marriage certificate is not required in order to apply for a passport;) And yes a drivers license is a form of id that they do require.......it's all in black and white......in order to change a name on a drivers license you need that document or a court document....see the redundancy?

I have a passport too;)

 

In California to get a driver's license you need a birth certificate or birthdate verification and legal presence. A foreign passport with valid record of Arrival/Departure is one of the documents that count. As does a Canadian passport, or a Mexican Border Crossing Card with valid I-94. You do not have to be a citizen to get a CDL.

 

So, if I am a (legal or illegal) resident of say California, and I have a driver's license, to get a US passport all I need is my driver's license and somebodies birth certificate with the same birthdate as mine?

 

And that is all I would need to cruise? I would not have to be a citizen? Just happen to have the birth certificate of a citizen with a birthdate and gender that matches mine?

 

Can't you order birth certificates online?

 

I'm so hoping you are wrong.

[Kurbanfan]

In California to get a driver's license you need a birth certificate or birthdate verification and legal presence. A foreign passport with valid record of Arrival/Departure is one of the documents that count. As does a Canadian passport, or a Mexican Border Crossing Card with valid I-94. You do not have to be a citizen to get a CDL.

 

So, if I am a (legal or illegal) resident of say California, and I have a driver's license, to get a US passport all I need is my driver's license and somebodies birth certificate with the same birthdate as mine?

 

And that is all I would need to cruise? I would not have to be a citizen? Just happen to have the birth certificate of a citizen with a birthdate and gender that matches mine?

 

Can't you order birth certificates online?

 

I'm so hoping you are wrong.

 

I wouldn't think you would get very far after the initial background check......which brings to mind they can see marriage certs on file too......

[nrdsb4]

In California to get a driver's license you need a birth certificate or birthdate verification and legal presence. A foreign passport with valid record of Arrival/Departure is one of the documents that count. As does a Canadian passport, or a Mexican Border Crossing Card with valid I-94. You do not have to be a citizen to get a CDL.

 

So, if I am a (legal or illegal) resident of say California, and I have a driver's license, to get a US passport all I need is my driver's license and somebodies birth certificate with the same birthdate as mine?

 

And that is all I would need to cruise? I would not have to be a citizen? Just happen to have the birth certificate of a citizen with a birthdate and gender that matches mine?

 

Can't you order birth certificates online?

 

I'm so hoping you are wrong.

 

 

And the same first and middle name. And you would have to name your parents and your mother's maiden name to get it online. I'm not saying someone couldn't obtain a birth certificate fraudulently, but there's a little more to it than you are suggesting.

[Warm Breezes]

Ok...I've been going back and forth with the Carnival Rep all day. In the end he is adament that a marriage license is required but he cannot post any government link to back that up and the Carnival link he gave me in his last e-mail I received from him today said a proof of name change OR a valid drivers license was required. So while he is still saying it is required, he has not backed up his stance with anything that is documented by the Government or Carnival. I let him know there are many women who sail everyday with just their driver's license and birth certificate based on Carnival's FAQ and the written WHTI rules and if this was truly required it should be communicated more clearly to all of Carnival's passengers and not just the few who happen to ask.

 

Below is his actual responses to me:

 

Thank you for contacting Carnival Cruise Lines. We appreciate the opportunity to be of assistance.

In reference to your inquiry, you would need your Marriage Certificate, so

it can match up with your Driver's License and Birth Certificate. If you

only take your Birth Certificate and Driver's License, it will not match.

If you scroll down on my previous email to Names on Travel Documentation, it states that it's important that guest names on travel

documents(passport, birth certificate, etc) and Government-Issued

Photo I.D be identical to those on the cruise and airline tickets. In the

event it doesn't match, documentation supporting this change is required: Current, valid driver's license with a photo

Government-Issued identification card with a photo (city/state/federal)

Legal Name Change court document

Marriage Certificate: original or copy

If there is anything else we can do for you please don't hesitate to ask.

 

I responded with:

 

Jason,

Sorry. I'm still confused as to the need of having a Marriage License.

1. I have the current, valid drivers license and it is in the name I have

booked under. This is the first item on your list. The current, valid driver's license is all that the gov't requires, with a birth certificate, to get a passport. It doesn't matter that the names do not match as you need your marriage license to change your name on your drivers license.

Why would a marriage license be required for boarding when its not

required to get a passport, only a valid drivers license?

2. The only place I have seen your wording below is in your e-mail to

me. The Carnival FAQ's, WHTI, and my cruise contract do not even mention marriage licenses or the need for bridging documents listed in them at all. If I'm missing it somewhere, please post the link. If it is true

that a marriage license is required, how are women supposed to know

about it if it is not documented as being required anywhere? I guess this is

the whole purpose in my questioning. It's not posted as required -anywhere, but per some women on cruise critic they are being asked for

it when their driver's license matches their booking name. However most

women are not being asked for it when they are in the same situation

(myself included). How is anyone supposed to know this is a required

document when 1)it's not documented as being required and 2) their own

past experience has been it not being needed by Carnival or Customs?

3. If it is true that a marriage license is required, why has neither Carnival or customs asked for it in my last 3 cruises when I only had a current, valid driver's license and my birth certificate? Note that my last Carnival cruise was after WHTI was passed.

 

Do you see why this is so confusing? Your citing a document below that

can be interpreted different ways and not only that, the document you

cited is not the same as what the Carnival FAQ's, cruise contract, or

WHTI post (which do not even mention marriage licenses).

Sorry to be a pest, but this has been a very confusing subject and both

Carnival, and the married women who sail Carnival with birth certificates

and drivers licenses, would benefit by the posted documentation on this

being clearer and the enforcement on it being more consistant.

If you could make any sense out of this for me, I would appreciate it.

His response was:

 

In reference to your inquiry, for cruises beginning and ending at the same

U.S. port we do not require a Passport but it is highly recommended.

Meaning if you do not bring a Passport, you will need your Original

Birth Certificate which has to match up with your Driver's License and

reservation. Since your Birth Certificate does not match up with your

reservation, you will need your Marriage Certificate which will match

up with your Birth Certificate, Driver's License and reservation. This is

what U.S. Customs requires, if you do not have the proper documentation,

you may be denied boarding.

 

If there is anything else we can do for you please don't hesitate to ask.

I responded with:

Jason,

Ok. So here is where I am struggling. Where does it say in WHTI, Carnival's Documentation, or anywhere that a marriage license is required

as a bridging document? Please provide me with the link to where US

Customs documents that it is required. You say it is required but I can't

find it anywhere. How are women supposed to know this is required if it

is not documented anywhere? Please help me find the supporting documentation to what you are saying.

He responded with:

We need two forms of documents that can match your reservation. In this

case, only providing your Driver's License and Birth Certificate which don't match will not be sufficient. Having the Marriage Certificate will assure us that it's you sailing on your reservation. By providing the Marriage Certificate it will allow us to see that you're married and sailing under your Marriage name, and it will give Carnival the assurance that your Birth Certificate matches up with the Marriage Certificate which will match up with your reservation. We also advise that we need documentation supporting the change, which would be a Marriage Certificate. We do apologize, there is no link that we can provide on Government website.

If there is anything else we can do for you please don't hesitate to ask.

I responded with:

Are there any links on the Carnival site or in our cruising contract that

state a marriage license is required in these circumstances? If not, then

how are women supposed to know that they need their marriage license?

Shouldn't this be documented somewhere? Anywhere? How can it be required if it's not communicated as such? I know there are many, many women who are not aware of this requirement because it is not stated anywhere.

This was his last response of the day:

We do apologize for any confusion this may have caused you. This is a

document we do require and guests do ask what documents they need. In cases like this, most of time the guests do ask the question or look it up on Carnival.com. Below is the link that will advise this, it will be under

section Air Travel.

http://www.carnival.com/cms/faq/default.aspx?faq=travel+documentation

If there is anything else we can do for you please don't hesitate to ask.

 

My last response of the day:

I believe this is what you are refering to:

 

"Guest names on travel documents (passport, Alien Resident Card, birth

certificate, etc.) must be identical to those on the cruise and airline

tickets. Otherwise, proof of name change (e.g., a marriage license) or a

valid driver's license (or other government-issued photo ID) must be

presented."

 

It says Proof of name change (e.g. a marriage license) OR a valid driver's

license (or other government-issued photo ID) must be presented.

 

I have a valid driver's license. Do you see how the wording on this could

be and is interpreted by many people to mean that a valid driver's license

is all that is required? It says proof of name change or a valid driver's

license not and a valid drivers license.

 

I know I am picking this apart, but if I had been stopped on any of my

prior cruises, because I did not have my marriage license, I'd have been

extremely upset because I would have had no clue that it was required.

You still have not really shown me anything that is documented on

Carnival's site and nothing from the government that actually says my

marriage license is required.

 

The only reason I asked about a marriage license was because of what I

read on Cruise Critic. There are many, many women sailing without their

marriage licenses because there is not any documentation telling them they need it. These women (like I have) would gather up their birth

certificate and drivers license and believe they were all set based on

Carnival's FAQ's and WHTI rules.

 

I would strongly suggest that if this is really a requirement then it

should be clearly communicated as such to all who are sailing on Carnival,

through Carnival's website and cruise documents, and not just to the few

who happen to ask because of something they just happened to have read on a cruise board or through hearsay.

 

[Kurbanfan]

Ask Jason if he knows that a marriage cert is not even required to get a passport:D

What a bunch of bs.....

Better yet maybe I should inquire and see what answer I will get:D LOL Jason is right but has nothing to back it up..........

[Crusin6]

what's required...what's not required....what is good ID..What isn't...You need this document..no you don't need this document:confused:

 

Is it any wonder that people can slip through the sytem and remain in this country as undocumented?

[Kurbanfan]

what's required...what's not required....what is good ID..What isn't...You need this document..no you don't need this document:confused:

 

Is it any wonder that people can slip through the sytem and remain in this country as undocumented?

 

:confused:

[caryrae]

I just booked our first cruise yesterday and just want to make sure for myself. My Wife and I still have US Passports that will still be valid for our cruise in Oct 2011 (passports don't expire til 2014). So from some of the posts I read bringing our passports and drivers license (which the DL's we carry all the time anyway) is all we would need?

[Kurbanfan]

I just booked our first cruise yesterday and just want to make sure for myself. My Wife and I still have US Passports that will still be valid for our cruise in Oct 2011 (passports don't expire til 2014). So from some of the posts I read bringing our passports and drivers license (which the DL's we carry all the time anyway) is all we would need?

 

If you have a valid passport then that is all you need.

[2SeaWithMe]

I actually got a phone call today from the National Passport Center...because there was confusion about my name.

 

I literally thought it was a joke.

 

She was confused because a copy of the MC was included, and my DL has my married name...and I had gotten it in my maiden name. And the clerks says to me, "Did they tell you had to use your maiden name? Did they ask you for your MC?"

 

I respond yes, and she sighs and says it's a common problem. So now they have to ship the application back to me, and she's not sure if I'll even get the same application. But apparently I MUST use the name on my DL.

 

So I was wrong, but I was following what the "official" had asked me for. It didn't state anything about married names on the travel.gov website.

 

So now I get to change the name of my reservation again, lol.

 

But I'll happily admit I was wrong.

 

Anyway, I'm glad I did bring it to the passport office, because they wouldn't have let me apply without it (their mistake). So it will be a couple weeks longer, but I didn't have to jump through bureaucratic hoops just to apply.

 

 

As far as taxes, the IRS and SS both state you could have a problem if you do not legally change your name, and desire to file in your married name. I could care less what you personally do, but I follow their recommendations because the last thing I need is a payment to the IRS getting lost.

[Kurbanfan]

As far as taxes, the IRS and SS both state you could have a problem if you do not legally change your name, and desire to file in your married name. I could care less what you personally do, but I follow their recommendations because the last thing I need is a payment to the IRS getting lost.

 

 

I believe the key word is "could". If I would have had a problem I would have changed it........but no problem:)

[nrdsb4]

 

As far as taxes, the IRS and SS both state you could have a problem if you do not legally change your name, and desire to file in your married name. I could care less what you personally do, but I follow their recommendations because the last thing I need is a payment to the IRS getting lost.

 

But you see, in your other post, you stated it was "impossible" to file a tax return in your married name without changing it through social security. That is a far cry from "you could have a problem." Naturally, having filed 21 times in a row sans problems, I would counter "impossible" with my own experience.

 

Not an issue for me, now, though, either. In April I will file my first return in my married name after having changed it officially through SS.

[2SeaWithMe]

Legally, it should be impossible.

 

But I guess you feel so comfortable with low-paid government workers that you're counting on them to catch any discrepancies.

[Kurbanfan]

Legally, it should be impossible.

 

But I guess you feel so comfortable with low-paid government workers that you're counting on them to catch any discrepancies.

 

My social security number has been required for many many many things and I have never had a problem.......had to use it in order to apply for a passport, bank accounts, employment, purchasing property etc.......

I even receive a yearly statement from the social security office showing how much I will receive if and when I retire.......all in my married name;)

[nrdsb4]

Legally, it should be impossible.

 

But I guess you feel so comfortable with low-paid government workers that you're counting on them to catch any discrepancies.

 

What discrepancies am I counting on them to catch?:confused::confused:

 

I have had no reason to feel uncomfortable as I've never had one problem with my tax returns. That seems to bother you. But the fact of the matter is you were wrong about your assertion. That's not the end of the world.;) I'm often wrong about things. It's no big deal.

[LemurCat]

Legally, it should be impossible.

 

But I guess you feel so comfortable with low-paid government workers that you're counting on them to catch any discrepancies.

 

Seriously? What do you care how she files her tax returns? It's not like it has any repurcussions on your life. If there are any negative outcomes to be dealt with, they will be dealt with by her, not you. No need to get condescending and down-right rude about government employees (most of whom are well compensated -- otherwise politicians wouldn't always be promising to lay them all off). Time to let it go.

[nrdsb4]

My social security number has been required for many many many things and I have never had a problem.......had to use it in order to apply for a passport, bank accounts, employment, purchasing property etc.......

I even receive a yearly statement from the social security office showing how much I will receive if and when I retire.......all in my married name;)

 

 

Ditto.:)

[Shelbyjane56]

I think I must have hit a nerve with you.

 

Furthermore, why on earth would you question what Carnival told you? You have the information, go with it. The people on this Board, while they provide very good information are not the ultimate authority on what Carnival will or will not except in letting you on the ship. Any information you receive is anecdotal at best.

 

Sorry cant resist!! Passports make life a lot easier when travelling :p

[Shelbyjane56]

If you have a valid passport then that is all you need.

 

Which it is a good reason to have a passport its easy and simple without having to go over and over the same thing ;)

[Kurbanfan]

Which it is a good reason to have a passport its easy and simple without having to go over and over the same thing ;)

 

I have one:D

[Warm Breezes]

Which it is a good reason to have a passport its easy and simple without having to go over and over the same thing ;)

 

However, the point of this thread is not passports, but questioning the documentation required for the many married women who sail with just their BC and DL where their DL and boarding name are in their married name.

 

Based on documented Carnival FAQ's and WHTI regulations they only need their BC and DL. Per a Carnival Rep (who was unable to document his claim with links to Carnivals or the Governments website) and some cruisers who were asked for their marriage licenses, a marriage license is also needed.

 

How is Jane Doe, who has never heard of cruise critic and is sailing for the first time, supposed to know that a marriage license is required if none of Carnival's or the Government's websites post it as required?

 

How are experienced cruisers, like myself, supposed to know they are required when we have never been asked for them on our past cruises and it is not documented on Carnival's or the Governments web-sites as being required?

 

If Carnival can delay or stop you from boarding because you do not have a marriage license, shouldn't this be documented somewhere?

 

Is it really required, or do we have Carnival Reps and Embarkation staff that do not really know the rules?

 

These are the questions being asked...Passports have nothing to do with it.