Concordia News: Please Post Here

[sidari]

Tonka ... Another option would be Holland where they also break ships for scrap.

 

Swedish weave .... The Concordia would have to sit on the Vanguard it is not made for towing, when they load rigs there is a critical stage of keeping it level when they are lifting as you can imagine.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Tonka ... Another option would be Holland where they also break ships for scrap.

 

Swedish weave .... The Concordia would have to sit on the Vanguard it is not made for towing, when they load rigs there is a critical stage of keeping it level when they are lifting as you can imagine.

 

 

Sid, I had forgotten about Holland, but is the yard big enough?

 

AKK

[clive and anne]

Hi Everyone

Back from my trip and trying to catch up with all the contributions over the last two weeks.

Yesterday on the flight back from Zante to Manchester we flew directly over Giglio. Cloud prevented me from seeing anything but I said a small prayer on behalf of everyone on this thread.

Sid, would sailing across the Bay of Biscay have any bearing on taking Concordia to Holland ?

[qtlikeme]

From Giglio News website : (excuse the translations!)

 

 

The structure of the Commissioner for the emergency Concordia, incorporating the feedback of the Subject actuator and Technical Director of Research, announced that he had completed all the activities technically possible to search for people still missing following the sinking of January 2012 in front of Isola del Giglio. Indeed, from September 24, immediately after the completion of phase parbuckling, the core operating interforce formed by the Coast Guard, Fire Department, Navy, Carabinieri, Guardia di Finanza and the State Police took over the search interrupted in the spring of 2012, inspecting all accessible areas on board ship - both in the emerged part is immersed in that - in addition to the seabed in front of the Concordia freed from the support of the ship itself. As noted, these activities have allowed us to recover the remains of a body and other bones, when subjected to identification tests, as they become known the results of these investigations will determine whether the research can be considered as definitively concluded or whether it will be necessary to provide for their hereinafter referred to as the Concordia will be conducted in port and commissioning in dry.

 

Looks like the search for bodies is over! When will DNA testing be complete and finally announced? Must be so hard for the families!!

 

We are going back to Giglio just after the second anniversary as my DH wants to watch some of the goings on with the ship......It will be emotional to return but it is something that we seem drawn back to!.....wish me strength to face getting on a cruise ship again!

[SomeBeach]

From Giglio News website : (excuse the translations!)

 

 

The structure of the Commissioner for the emergency Concordia, incorporating the feedback of the Subject actuator and Technical Director of Research, announced that he had completed all the activities technically possible to search for people still missing following the sinking of January 2012 in front of Isola del Giglio. Indeed, from September 24, immediately after the completion of phase parbuckling, the core operating interforce formed by the Coast Guard, Fire Department, Navy, Carabinieri, Guardia di Finanza and the State Police took over the search interrupted in the spring of 2012, inspecting all accessible areas on board ship - both in the emerged part is immersed in that - in addition to the seabed in front of the Concordia freed from the support of the ship itself. As noted, these activities have allowed us to recover the remains of a body and other bones, when subjected to identification tests, as they become known the results of these investigations will determine whether the research can be considered as definitively concluded or whether it will be necessary to provide for their hereinafter referred to as the Concordia will be conducted in port and commissioning in dry.

 

Looks like the search for bodies is over! When will DNA testing be complete and finally announced? Must be so hard for the families!!

 

We are going back to Giglio just after the second anniversary as my DH wants to watch some of the goings on with the ship......It will be emotional to return but it is something that we seem drawn back to!.....wish me strength to face getting on a cruise ship again!

 

It is my understanding that results take several weeks.

The situation was made even more difficult for the 2 families because of confusion when remains were first found. My hope is they have found both of them but we must wait out the results.

As to your return, I wish all the best for you and DH as you confront the remains of the ship and the events of that night.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Clive, welcome back.

[chengkp75]

Thanks for the photos BE.

 

It is indeed a major crack and will greatly reduce the strength in the hull and make getting the wreck safely onto the Vanguard more difficult.

 

However never say never in this type of work' date=' it could be sealed, but it will be a major project.

 

Now that said, I agree with you its unlikely they will strengthen the hull in that area and seal the crack.

 

As to free surface, the open crack will likely let a great amount of the water flow out of the hull and additional opening could be made to release most, if not all the water at the Vanguard raises the wreck out of the water.

 

The fly in the ointment is if the water would be a environmental issue at this point, remember the water is freeing passing in and out of the hull now so it may not be a issue.

 

AKK

 

 

I would mention our old friend the Chief hit this right on the head about using the Vanguard months ago!

 

AKK[/quote']

 

Hey, Skipper;

 

Just back from the briny, and skimming the 50 pages since I left. Unfortunately, I missed the most interesting part, but did catch some of it on a smart phone while anchored!

 

Not really clairvoyant about the Vanguard, but it makes a lot of sense when you have a structurally deficient hull like the Concordia. Like you said, they haven't decided whether to go to Piombino or elsewhere, so Titan and Costa must be fairly worried about the integrity of the hull, if they have already contracted for the Vanguard, and may still be only making a short move.

 

My guess on the hull damage is that the upper section of the breaches on the stbd side will be plated over for stiffening, and the lower areas will be left to allow drainage from the hull, as the port side breach is still partly open.

 

I've seen a lot of speculation about stbd side sponson attachment methods. I would suspect that they will go with a similar attachment as the port side, with attachment points welded to the hull, lower the caisson in place, attach it, and then fully weld the caisson to the hull. As you say, there will be a lot of stress on the hull during refloat, and this may be more costly but the safer, more environmentally friendly way to go. What will take most of the winter is lofting the caissons to match the damaged side of the ship.

 

For those who have questioned about the water drainage, remember that the entire site is currently surrounded by oil boom, with skimmer vessels on hand, so anything that drains out will be contained and cleaned up. Likewise, when/if she is lifted on the Vanguard, even the website with the animation shows a boom around the operation.

 

One aspect for the Vanguard that will take some time is the blocking. Here, they need to match the structural strong points on the Vanguard with the structural strong points on Concordia, and create a unique drydock blocking plan. This will be welded to the Vanguard, and the Concordia will be welded to the blocks as well. I have seen these heavy lift ships transport oil drilling rigs that are over 230' high, and I still cannot understand how the stability is there, but the rigs are secured to the ship.

 

BE, great underwater pics.

 

Thanks to all who have kept this going.

[chengkp75]

Is it possible for the Vanguard to secure and tow the concordia without lifting it completely out of the water ?

 

SW;

 

No, the Vanguard cannot sail without having her deck above water. As Sid mentions, there comes a time of critical stability even after the weight of the Concordia is taken by the Vanguard, but before the Vanguard is completely pumped up. The wing structures on the Vanguard are not designed to move through the water, they are superstructure much like the smashed superstructure of the Concordia.

[clive and anne]

Welcome back Cheng, we have missed you.

[Tonka's Skipper]

hey, skipper;

 

great to see you chief!

 

just back from the briny, and skimming the 50 pages since i left. Unfortunately, i missed the most interesting part, but did catch some of it on a smart phone while anchored!

 

Not really clairvoyant about the vanguard, but it makes a lot of sense when you have a structurally deficient hull like the concordia. Like you said, they haven't decided whether to go to piombino or elsewhere, so titan and costa must be fairly worried about the integrity of the hull, if they have already contracted for the vanguard, and may still be only making a short move.

 

My guess on the hull damage is that the upper section of the breaches on the stbd side will be plated over for stiffening, and the lower areas will be left to allow drainage from the hull, as the port side breach is still partly open.

 

i think it will also need the beams and strong backs. It will be quite the project with the hull so distorted.

i've seen a lot of speculation about stbd side sponson attachment methods. I would suspect that they will go with a similar attachment as the port side, with attachment points welded to the hull, lower the caisson in place, attach it, and then fully weld the caisson to the hull. as you say, there will be a lot of stress on the hull during refloat, and this may be more costly but the safer, more environmentally friendly way to go. What will take most of the winter is lofting the caissons to match the damaged side of the ship.

 

looking at the photos available, this poor gal has been twisted and stressed on the reef a good deal more then was expected. You have to wonder what conditions the inner structural members of the hull are in

 

for those who have questioned about the water drainage, remember that the entire site is currently surrounded by oil boom, with skimmer vessels on hand, so anything that drains out will be contained and cleaned up. Likewise, when/if she is lifted on the vanguard, even the website with the animation shows a boom around the operation.

 

One aspect for the vanguard that will take some time is the blocking. Here, they need to match the structural strong points on the vanguard with the structural strong points on concordia, and create a unique drydock blocking plan. This will be welded to the vanguard, and the concordia will be welded to the blocks as well. I have seen these heavy lift ships transport oil drilling rigs that are over 230' high, and i still cannot understand how the stability is there, but the rigs are secured to the ship.

 

they will also have to adjust the blocking for any distortions in the bottom of the hull.

 

be, great underwater pics.

 

Thanks to all who have kept this going.

 

 

akk

[sidari]

Clive ... Welcome back, going across the Bay may be a hazard for the Vanguard, been across it twice so far and have been lucky both times so i guess it depends on timing and weather systems.

 

Tonka ... Oasis of the seas is heading to the shipyard in Holland next year for a service so i would guess that they can cope with the Concordia though i can understand the Italians wanting the work plus there are probably some things onboard that will be serviceable.

[chengkp75]

Clive ... Welcome back, going across the Bay may be a hazard for the Vanguard, been across it twice so far and have been lucky both times so i guess it depends on timing and weather systems.

 

Tonka ... Oasis of the seas is heading to the shipyard in Holland next year for a service so i would guess that they can cope with the Concordia though i can understand the Italians wanting the work plus there are probably some things onboard that will be serviceable.

 

Sid;

 

While the yard in Holland (can't remember what docks are there) could handle the Concordia, they would not want to tie up a drydock with a scrapping job, as these will take several months to a year (done in proper safety measures). Yards that scrap ships tend to have a designated dock for this, as this is potentially very hazardous as well.

 

I remember seeing an article that maybe you posted the link to, where the EU is seeking applications for yards in Europe to scrap ships, as there is currently a large backlog of ships awaiting scrapping, so there are not that many that want the environmental headaches that come with scrap operations.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Sid;

 

While the yard in Holland (can't remember what docks are there) could handle the Concordia, they would not want to tie up a drydock with a scrapping job, as these will take several months to a year (done in proper safety measures). Yards that scrap ships tend to have a designated dock for this, as this is potentially very hazardous as well.

 

I remember seeing an article that maybe you posted the link to, where the EU is seeking applications for yards in Europe to scrap ships, as there is currently a large backlog of ships awaiting scrapping, so there are not that many that want the environmental headaches that come with scrap operations.

 

You beat me to it!

 

Hi Sid, yes, a big difference from a *ship building yard* to a *scrap yard*..............2 very different specialties.

 

AKK

[sidari]

Tonka, Cheng .... No idea why i was saying Holland ... :eek:

 

The place i was thinking of was actually Izmir in Turkey which would be one heck of a distance to transport the ship... pictures link below. There is a picture of the MS Pacific that was formerly the Love boat in the TV programme. The Costa Allegra ended up there as well.

 

http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=yfp-t-702&va=ship+breaking+yards+in+turkey

Edited October 24, 2013 by sidari

[Bearded Engineer]

According to this article they have positively identified Maria's remains. http://www.tmnews.it/web/sezioni/cronaca/dna-conferma-resti-umani-su-costa-concordia-sono-della-dispersa-PN_20131024_00112.shtml

 

Google translation:

 

"DNA confirms human remains on the Costa Concordia are of scattered

I'm Maria Grazia Trecarichi

 

Florence, 24 October (TMNews) - Human remains found on the bridge of the Costa Concordia are 3 by Maria Grazia Trecarichi, which appeared among the last of the two missing shipwreck island of Giglio Jan. 13, 2012. The scientific police in Rome communicated to the Court of Grosseto that the remains are compatible with the genetic code of the family members of Trecarichi. The more dispersed, at this point the only among the 32 victims of the sinking, is Russel Rebello."

[chengkp75]

Sid;

 

Izmir is at least one step above Bangladesh. While they still just ram the ship aground and pull it up as they chop it away, at least they make some attempt to meet EU safety regulations.

[KandCsailing]

According to this article they have positively identified Maria's remains. http://www.tmnews.it/web/sezioni/cronaca/dna-conferma-resti-umani-su-costa-concordia-sono-della-dispersa-PN_20131024_00112.shtml

 

Google translation:

 

"DNA confirms human remains on the Costa Concordia are of scattered

I'm Maria Grazia Trecarichi

 

Florence, 24 October (TMNews) - Human remains found on the bridge of the Costa Concordia are 3 by Maria Grazia Trecarichi, which appeared among the last of the two missing shipwreck island of Giglio Jan. 13, 2012. The scientific police in Rome communicated to the Court of Grosseto that the remains are compatible with the genetic code of the family members of Trecarichi. The more dispersed, at this point the only among the 32 victims of the sinking, is Russel Rebello."

Strange that it says on the bridge. I hope they're right and it's over for the one family.

Sid;

 

Izmir is at least one step above Bangladesh. While they still just ram the ship aground and pull it up as they chop it away, at least they make some attempt to meet EU safety regulations.

Izmir is also a lot closer than Bangladesh.

[SomeBeach]

BE, other articles say the remains were found on Deck 3.

In one, Maria's husband said he learned of the identification from the media and not officials involved with the recovery.

The official report is expected to be released next week.

Welcome back Chengkp.

[luisrp]

The use of "bridge" there is a translation error. The reports in Italian talk about "ponte 3". In Spanish (my native language) reports have been translated as "puente 3" even though the correct translation is "cubierta". "Ponte" and "puente" are literally bridge and it seems that the Italian word for "deck" in a ship is "ponte".

[chengkp75]

Having been on a bridge where the commanding officer was carrying out a complex manoeuvre and when he ordered 'stop both engines' and got the reply...'Repeat your last!'.. things went pear shaped in the blink of an eye.

 

Thankfully all was recovered with no harm done, just a lot of red faces, along with an extremely angry captain.

 

However is it fair to suggest that in this case from what we are reading, experts have re-enacted the scenario and the delay that is being discussed had NO INFLUENCE on the outcome? Having read the official report, again I stand by my statement that the 8 second delay in completing the helm order would not have affected the outcome any. First, while cruise ships are very maneuverable as you state in an earlier post, that is while they are nearly stopped, and using the thrusters and, most likely, the "Becker" or high lift rudders to swing the ship. At high speed, and the Concordia was making 15-16 knots at the time, there is a significant delay between the rudder being put hard over, and the ship even starting to swing, let alone making the turn. It can take several ship lengths to make a 20* change in heading. Schettino was giving helm orders in "heading degrees" right up until about 1 minute before the collision. Giving a helmsman orders in heading degrees allows the helmsman to use his judgement in how to steer the rudder to maintain the heading commanded. It frequently results in rudder angles to both sides in order to maintain the heading. At one minute before the collision, Schettino starts giving helm orders in "rudder angles". This removes the leeway from the helmsman, in that he must match the rudder to the angle commanded, and keep it there until commanded to change, even if he thinks it's crazy that the ship is making a full circle. However, with only a minute to go, this change in helm command by Schettino was way too late. Even then, knowing that at speed there is a natural delay in following the helm, Schettino should have given orders to greater angles than he wanted, and then "eased" back to what he wanted, which would have resulted in quicker response. Tonka, help me here, but wouldn't you have given a hard right, and then a few seconds later, "east to 20" to get a faster response (I'm just an engineer, after all).

 

The helmsman as an individual might well be extremely hard done by but I was not in court and have not heard the evidence or read any transcripts?? (are there any and if so are they available for public access) so I have to accept his guilty plea.

 

I do have a degree of sympathy toward this person but that is without being in possession of the facts regarding his prosection??

 

I would however like to ask those who are much better informed than me the following.

 

How did this person get selected for such a task? The helmsman is certified by his home country as an "able seaman", and his training and competency must meet the requirements of the IMO through their "Standards of Training, Competency, and Watchkeeping" or STCW. He is a professional mariner, not just some crewmember chosen at random.

 

What training did they undergo? See above. It is also incumbent upon the flag state of the ship (Italy) to ensure that the training of seafarers onboard their ships meets their requirements as well.

 

What supervision did they have during their training? In addition to the STCW and flag state requirements, Costa's ISM system would normally have a section on training for most positions in the deck and engine departments, and guidelines for checking competency and training by the officers onboard.

 

Who was responsible for allocating this person to that job and were they aware of his skill levels in whatever language was to be used on the bridge? Again, this was Schettino's ultimate responsibility, and that of the deck officers.

 

I fail to see what the water tight doors have to do with this manoeuvre but I fear I might be slightly bias in my sympathy toward this captain??

The watertight doors actually had nothing to do with the maneuver, but most flag states, and most class societies require all watertight doors to be closed when in confined waters. However, since the hull breach was in 4 continuous compartments, there was nothing that closing the doors would accomplish, and there was nothing on God's Earth that was going to keep the ship afloat.

 

an amzing salvage operation and here's hoping her keel can stand up to the task of supporting the ship until it is refloated? (question)

Actually, the ship will stand up to supporting itself much better on its keel than on its side, since that is the attitude it is designed to be in, and closely relates to sitting in a drydock.

[glojo]

Actually, the ship will stand up to supporting itself much better on its keel than on its side, since that is the attitude it is designed to be in, and closely relates to sitting in a drydock.

I totally accept that resting on its side was not good, but without bouyancy is resting on it's hull as secure as you make out?

 

In dry dock is a ship supported down her centre line and then is the rest of the ship simply wedged\balanced?

 

On either side of the ship I am led to believe there have been huge, huge bouyancy tanks that are designed to be pumped out and then raise this vessel very, very slightly??

 

Is the intention to eventually use these aids to raise her even higher and then tow this hulk to a location where she can be cut up?

 

From what I have read the very front section is extremely fragile and has had to have a custom made bouyancy jig to help retain this area in position?

[chengkp75]

I totally accept that resting on its side was not good, but without bouyancy is resting on it's hull as secure as you make out? Yes, the hull is nearly completely supported by the underwater platforms and the grout bags, and some of the "winterizing" they are doing is to add more grout bags where needed.

 

In dry dock is a ship supported down her centre line and then is the rest of the ship simply wedged\balanced? Usually there is a line of blocks down the centerline and then another line of blocks to port and stbd, somewhere between the centerline and the turn of the bilge. Most ships have two blocking plans to allow for painting the areas covered by the blocks at the last drydock.

 

On either side of the ship I am led to believe there have been huge, huge bouyancy tanks that are designed to be pumped out and then raise this vessel very, very slightly?? Actually, the caissons are currently filled with water to add weight to the ship and help keep her from moving during the upcoming winter weather. The caissons actually have more buoyancy than the original hull, since they are lifting the weight of the ship, the weight of the caissons, and the weight of the water inside the hull. They will raise the ship significantly, not very slightly, to a draft of about 18 meters (normal draft is 14 meters), from its current depth of 30 meters.

 

Is the intention to eventually use these aids to raise her even higher and then tow this hulk to a location where she can be cut up? One possibility would be to tow the ship with the caissons attached, but the latest is that Costa has contracted for a heavy lift ship to lift the Concordia and "dry tow" her on the heavy lift ship's deck.

 

From what I have read the very front section is extremely fragile and has had to have a custom made bouyancy jig to help retain this area in position?

Not sure how fragile the bow is, but the "blister" caissons were special made to match the contours of the bow section (the rest are essentially big rectangular boxes), and were connected across the hull through the bow thruster tunnels.

A lot of your questions can be answered on the "Concordia Recovery" thread (which is about 100 pages), and has covered the salvage operation nearly from the outset.

[glojo]

Not sure how fragile the bow is, but the "blister" caissons were special made to match the contours of the bow section (the rest are essentially big rectangular boxes), and were connected across the hull through the bow thruster tunnels.

 

A lot of your questions can be answered on the "Concordia Recovery" thread (which is about 100 pages), and has covered the salvage operation nearly from the outset.

The 'blister caissons' are indeed the items I am talking about and they were indeed custom made for the ship (as was everything connected with the salvage operation)

 

I actually watched an interview with the South African who was instrumental in the planning and execution of this amazing achievement and he described in great detail how they were very concerned about the fragility of the front section and they all feared it would break off without this additional support.

 

I will have to have a read of that thread but to be honest I was turned off when someone insisted it was down to the skill of the captain that saw the ship come to rest on those rocks! Having said that I was impressed by the expert input made by some of you folks...

 

I'm off to get updated and thank you for reminding me of its location.

[sidari]

The Blisters were added because the Bow section overhangs the underwater platform and therefore had no support, had they not been fitted the Bow would or could have become weakened due to the stress of overhanging the platform.

[luisrp]

Some may have seen this but I just found it in Youtube. Seems to be a documentary for TV. It is entirely passengers and crew footage before, during and after the accident. Some real hair raising moments.

 

[lightman1984]

Not a whole lot of news out of the weekly report. Rough weather last week suspended operations on several days. Work continues on grouting the shore side against movement, installing braces on the sea side from platform to sponson, removing strand jacks & cables, passing chains under the ship, retrieving valuables will commence this week and last a month, installing bilge plating on the starboard side, and 4 sponsons transported from Palermo to Livorno.

 

 

http://www.giglionews.it/images/stories/allegati/rel_sett_osservatorio271013.pdf