Concordia News: Please Post Here

[cruiserfanfromct]

The OPs clive and anne over at the Salvage thread report this morning the

Giglio port camera has been moved although no longer in the center of operations. :(

[CostaSmurfette]

The OPs clive and anne over at the Salvage thread report this morning the

Giglio port camera has been moved although no longer in the center of operations. :(

 

They might not want the world watching when she is raised incase they have got their calculations wrong and she breaks her back as she is lifted....

 

Lets face it, she is the biggest ship to ever be salvaged from that position, she is balancing on rocks to bow and stern with bugger all inbetween...its understandable that they are nervous...anyone would be nervous doing what they are about to try and do. Having the world watching them just adds to the pressure.

Edited August 10, 2012 by CostaSmurfette

[SomeBeach]

Clive, no, it's not center like it use to be. They zoomed in a tiny bit on the view which probably accounts for that. We'll still see something of the other side now so it's all good.

Thanks for writing them about changing it.

[CtheW0rld]

TONIGHT on Italian television new underwater diving footage of wreck. Will discuss the "strange dust" that's being talked about. Hopefully someone will upload it to YouTube for us to watch. Stay tuned.....

 

http://www.agi.it/in-primo-piano/notizie/201208101348-ipp-rt10128-concordia_dubbi_su_pulviscolo_le_immagini_del_blitz_subacqueo

 

english translation via google:

 

AGI) - Rome, August 10 - "Tonight people will see what 'that no one has yet shown them on the Costa Concordia." And 'the announcement of Codacons reporting of "strange dust in the bottom of Concord to 30 meters deep', which even the Mayor of the Lily seems to ignore." The images speak for themselves: the 23 or so, TV7 (Rai1) will be transmitted pictures of the raid made ​​by divers Codacons that assists survivors in the waters of the island of Giglio, the point where 'stranded Concordia. The blitz was on August 3, divers have resumed the status of the seabed and that of the submerged part of the ship. The recorded images, says Codacons, are currently being examined by experts appointed by the association in order to assess any critical 'in the ship is not visible on the surface. The purpose of the blitz and diver 'is "to ensure transparency in the operations of removing the ship and get some answers about the status of safety and sealing the hull and environmental conditions in the sea and the rocky coast submerged." Following the movie Codacons' ask 'ARPA to make more' in-depth analysis of sea water to a depth 'of 30 meters and more.' "(AGI).

[CostaSmurfette]

english translation via google:

 

AGI) - Rome, August 10 - "Tonight people will see what 'that no one has yet shown them on the Costa Concordia." And 'the announcement of Codacons reporting of "strange dust in the bottom of Concord to 30 meters deep', which even the Mayor of the Lily seems to ignore." The images speak for themselves: the 23 or so, TV7 (Rai1) will be transmitted pictures of the raid made ​​by divers Codacons that assists survivors in the waters of the island of Giglio, the point where 'stranded Concordia. The blitz was on August 3, divers have resumed the status of the seabed and that of the submerged part of the ship. The recorded images, says Codacons, are currently being examined by experts appointed by the association in order to assess any critical 'in the ship is not visible on the surface. The purpose of the blitz and diver 'is "to ensure transparency in the operations of removing the ship and get some answers about the status of safety and sealing the hull and environmental conditions in the sea and the rocky coast submerged." Following the movie Codacons' ask 'ARPA to make more' in-depth analysis of sea water to a depth 'of 30 meters and more.' "(AGI).

 

Or to put it another way......

 

http://www.agi.it/english-version/italy/elenco-notizie/201208032050-cro-ren1079-concordia_codacons_alarm_ship_risks_splitting_apart

 

(AGI) Grosseto - An odd fine dust has been found at the bottom of the Concordia. Is there a risk that the ship could split apart? This is the question Codacons is asking after having carried out an underwater inspection this afternoon off the Island of Giglio, on the site where the wreck of the cruise ship has been sitting since January. With a team of divers and experts, the association has filmed the submerged portion of the ship in the water, to verify the conditions of the vessel and eventual problem situations. "The images gathered," the president of Codacons, Carlo Rienzi, on the site during inspection, explained, "will be analized by a group of experts, and the results will be communicated to the Prosecutor's Office." . .

 

The beauty of translation tween Italian and English often leaves alot to be desired.

[CostaSmurfette]

If she does break her back during the righting process, it potentially opens up another can of worms.

 

On one hand the salvors could get the blame...but on the other hand, it could be seen as an inherrent design flaw, which would land Carnival Corp and Fincantieri into the doo-doo.

 

If the alleged debris that Codacon suggests shows that the hull could split could be from two directions of thought...one being debris from the cutting away of hull to extrictate the rock and other parts of the ship that would impede the righting process...or...she may well be straining too much and her hull plates (read welds) are indeed giving out slowly but surely.

 

If the debris is from the preparations - ie the cutting away of plating and other potential obstructions, then that is, to a degree, to be expected and can be easily cleared up once the hull is completed removed from the shoreline...so long as the back doesn't break in the process.

 

However, if the hull is splitting at the weld points...it is totally possible but not quite as common a problem to be splitting mid plate as there is little to weaken an otherwise undamaged plate.....or, the least wanted scenario, it could show that the build quality of the hull is potentially questionable, something Codacons will probably be hoping for as it would strengthen their case that the ship was not fit for purpose. This was tried and dismissed in the more recent investigations into build quality of Titanic.

 

Fincantieri and other shipbuilders have used the welding technique for decades, its well practiced, the technology is perfectly fine and afterall said and done, if there was a problem with the system, no ship built in the last 30+ years would have been certified as fit for use.

 

That said....there are those who see Fincantieri as producing ships as if on a conveyor belt, with fast build and delivery...under pressure from their customers.

 

This latest report is in the hands of the metalurgists, ship architects, builders and others who are au fait with ships and their construction. It could just be the "simple" explanation of debris caused by the preparations...in all likelihood it will be something very simple and easy to explain, but where there is even the tiniest of a shadow of doubt, there will be those on the sidelines who will be watching very carefully...some biting their nails and others rubbing their hands together with dollar signs in their heads.

[SomeBeach]

The OPs clive and anne over at the Salvage thread report this morning the

Giglio port camera has been moved although no longer in the center of operations. :(

 

The view from the port camera has been zoomed in a bit. That accounts for the change.

At least we have something of a look at the other side.

[Uniall]

Uniall, do you have to be so obnoxious all the time?

 

Tell you what, instead of being all steamed up over anything that I might say, go to you usercp onsite and place me on ignore, then you won't see my posts and you will avoid having a hissy fit over them.

 

Why would you interject yourself into a discussion of law between two posters who are knowldgeable on the subject when you've already proven you do not know the subject?

 

My post was direct answer to Sidari's debate with me over possible conflicts of law in the USA and UK.

 

You chose my reply to his post to question even though it, once again, demonstrated your lack of legal knowledge and the manner used by lawyers to discuss differing legal opinions.

[stella_mare]

So by that, he wasn't at the helm immediately prior to the collision...only during and immediately afterwards.

 

However, I would like to see the original Italian transcript and have it retranslated to check on context accuracies, the Italian language is truly awful to translate correctly.

 

That aside, it also sounds like Ambrosio who may have been at the helm in the lead up to the collision, and therefore the potential is that it was Ambrosio who took the ship off the planned course unintentionally and Schettino then took avoiding action which failed to avert the tragedy, but due to the proximity of the rock vs the size of the ship, the collision was inevitable, the only unknown in that would be exactly where the impact would occur and the damage that could be done by that impact.

 

Schettino, if this scenario is close to what happened, is actually taking his role as ultimate commander on the ship to its full definition...he is taking the blame for the entire episode despit not being the one who started the chain of events that ultimately cost the lives of 32 passengers and crew and the CTL of Concordia.

 

There is no denying that Ambrosio has effectively vanished off the face of the earth since the accident in regard to media etc. He has kept his head down throughout...and that is typical for someone who is being protected.

 

Ambrosio's actions that night hold the key to what really happened, not Schettino.

 

Schettino isn't falling on his sword. He is facing 2500 yrs in prison (give or take) if he is found guilty of the charges. He claims that Ambrosio didn't warn him they were "off course." Ambrosio, who is also under investigation, is undoubtedly listening to the advice of his attorney.

 

Unfortunately, the majority of the testimonies made public thus far are of little help in discerning the facts re:what took place from the time Schettino arrived on the bridge to the time of the collision and after. They are inconsistent recollections told through the fog of fatigue, shock, chaos, and perhaps, fear of charges. The times and timeline are inexact at best - "I can't recall exactly." "Time vanished." "I did not notice the time - there was so much chaos."

 

The initial testimonies raise even more questions than answers.

 

Did Ambrosio notice that they were veering toward disaster beforehand and fail to do anything about it or mention they were going to close? It depends on who you believe. The VDR should shed more light on the truth and bring some clarity to the he-said-he said-she-said testimonies.

[Max49]

So by that, he wasn't at the helm immediately prior to the collision...only during and immediately afterwards.

 

However, I would like to see the original Italian transcript and have it retranslated to check on context accuracies, the Italian language is truly awful to translate correctly.

 

That aside, it also sounds like Ambrosio who may have been at the helm in the lead up to the collision, and therefore the potential is that it was Ambrosio who took the ship off the planned course unintentionally and Schettino then took avoiding action which failed to avert the tragedy, but due to the proximity of the rock vs the size of the ship, the collision was inevitable, the only unknown in that would be exactly where the impact would occur and the damage that could be done by that impact.

 

Schettino, if this scenario is close to what happened, is actually taking his role as ultimate commander on the ship to its full definition...he is taking the blame for the entire episode despit not being the one who started the chain of events that ultimately cost the lives of 32 passengers and crew and the CTL of Concordia.

 

There is no denying that Ambrosio has effectively vanished off the face of the earth since the accident in regard to media etc. He has kept his head down throughout...and that is typical for someone who is being protected.

 

Ambrosio's actions that night hold the key to what really happened, not Schettino.

 

At least you are consistent. It was all the Jr officers fault but now you are adding that it was not only, not Schettino's fault, but you are now adding that he is a martyr for "falling on his sword" and taking the blame for his crew. That's incredible.

I was thinking Ambrosio was staying quiet because he is going by the theory that if you don't have any thing good to say, don't say any thing. You have to be careful if you know what you are saying will be throwing your boss under the bus.

Obviously, Schettino is your hero.

[CostaSmurfette]

Schettino isn't falling on his sword. He is facing 2500 yrs in prison (give or take) if he is found guilty of the charges. He claims that Ambrosio didn't warn him they were "off course." Ambrosio, who is also under investigation, is undoubtedly listening to the advice of his attorney.

 

Unfortunately, the majority of the testimonies made public thus far are of little help in discerning the facts re:what took place from the time Schettino arrived on the bridge to the time of the collision and after. They are inconsistent recollections told through the fog of fatigue, shock, chaos, and perhaps, fear of charges. The times and timeline are inexact at best - "I can't recall exactly." "Time vanished." "I did not notice the time - there was so much chaos."

 

The initial testimonies raise even more questions than answers.

 

Did Ambrosio notice that they were veering toward disaster beforehand and fail to do anything about it or mention they were going to close? It depends on who you believe. The VDR should shed more light on the truth and bring some clarity to the he-said-he said-she-said testimonies.

 

Confirms the old addage that an eyewitness is often the worst witness, hence the absolute need for forensically verifiable material evidence such as taped voice recordings, CCTV etc.

 

The bridge CCTV, thankfully, has yet to be leaked to the media...there has been some visual recording taken by a mobile device (phone, netbook) from the back wall of the bridge but it was such poor quality and at such a low angle it was hard to discern who was where and when, if anything it hinders the process rather than assisting it, but so far the actual installed CCTV has not been seen outside of the investigation. That along with the voice recordings and black box should answer the questions....but then with the black box being faulty, added to the power outtages, questions will doubtless arise as to the continuity of all those official recording devices that would normally be essential to the investigative process.

[CostaSmurfette]

At least you are consistent. It was all the Jr officers fault but now you are adding that it was not only, not Schettino's fault, but you are now adding that he is a martyr for "falling on his sword" and taking the blame for his crew. That's incredible.

I was thinking Ambrosio was staying quiet because he is going by the theory that if you don't have any thing good to say, don't say any thing. You have to be careful if you know what you are saying will be throwing your boss under the bus.

Obviously, Schettino is your hero.

 

The only heroes in this were the grass roots crew...the bridge, no....none of them acted appropriately...none of them questioned what was happening, none of them stepped up to the plate and tried to avoid what happened...

 

The chain of command did not exist when it was most needed.

 

As to why no-one corrected the course deviation or even noticed it until it was too late, is the biggest question that no-one has answered yet.

 

Schettino requested to go to manual control once the severity of the situation was understood, which means the wrong course was entered into the autopilot...who programmed the autopilot before the ship left Civitavecchia.....Schettino, Ambrosio...or someone else?

[Max49]

I believe that if a junior officer was driving the ship, other officers would have possibly saved the ship by telling who ever was driving to "turn the friggin boat before you hit the rocks". With an arrogant, know ever thing captain at the wheel maybe they were scared to say a word because they knew he had been a dare devil many times before and got away with it, you know like, if you miss hitting it, an inch is as good as a mile?

 

I think Schettino had it in him that he wanted to be the master at some of the most "daring sail bys" After all he had done it before and did'nt hit any thing, this time he probably thought "I'll beat my last sail by , by a few meters.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Max49

[cruiserfanfromct]

Giglio News webcam now showing Micoperi M30 arriving.

 

http://giglionews.it/2010022440919/webcam/isola-del-giglio/webcam-giglio-porto-panoramica.html

[stella_mare]

The only heroes in this were the grass roots crew...the bridge, no....none of them acted appropriately...none of them questioned what was happening, none of them stepped up to the plate and tried to avoid what happened...

 

How do YOU know this?

 

The chain of command did not exist when it was most needed.

 

As to why no-one corrected the course deviation or even noticed it until it was too late, is the biggest question that no-one has answered yet.

 

And why are you sure no one took notice or tried to correct it?

 

Schettino requested to go to manual control once the severity of the situation was understood...

 

Where did you find this unequivocal information? Even Schettino, himself, has never made this claim.

 

...which means the wrong course was entered into the autopilot...

... or the planned route was programmed into autopilot and then they deviated per Schettino's plan enroute.

 

...who programmed the autopilot before the ship left Civitavecchia.....Schettino, Ambrosio...or someone else?

Ah, another point of blame. Edited August 10, 2012 by stella_mare

[OleSalt]

There is already a huge thread on this topic with many mavens in the fields of maritime safety, law both Italian, American and UK, camera angles and history. Perhaps you could consolidate this and the rest of us can get on with our busy lives.

[cruiserfanfromct]

Very interesting review of the Concordia Accident and lessons learned.

 

A REVIEW OF CRUISE SHIP SAFETY AND LESSONS LEARNED FROM THE COSTA CONCORDIA ACCIDENT

(112–74) HEARING BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON COAST GUARD AND MARITIME TRANSPORTATION

OF THE COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

 

 

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-112hhrg73104/pdf/CHRG-112hhrg73104.pdf

[stella_mare]

Very interesting review of the Concordia Accident and lessons learned.

 

A REVIEW OF CRUISE SHIP SAFETY AND LESSONS LEARNED FROM THE COSTA CONCORDIA ACCIDENT

(112–74) HEARING BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON COAST GUARD AND MARITIME TRANSPORTATION

OF THE COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

 

 

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-112hhrg73104/pdf/CHRG-112hhrg73104.pdf

 

Thanks for the link, cruiserfanfromct. Hadn't seen this one yet.

[Esprit]

That crane barge has arrived and in webcam view at the moment

[stella_mare]

Very interesting review of the Concordia Accident and lessons learned.

 

A REVIEW OF CRUISE SHIP SAFETY AND LESSONS LEARNED FROM THE COSTA CONCORDIA ACCIDENT

(112–74) HEARING BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON COAST GUARD AND MARITIME TRANSPORTATION

OF THE COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

 

 

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-112hhrg73104/pdf/CHRG-112hhrg73104.pdf

 

Just read the "Trapped in Paradise" witness testimony that starts on p. 32. Such a nightmare. Tears in my eyes.

[Max49]

"Schettino isn't falling on his sword. He is facing 2500 yrs in prison (give or take) if he is found guilty of the charges. He claims that Ambrosio didn't warn him they were "off course." Ambrosio, who is also under investigation, is undoubtedly listening to the advice of his attorney."

 

Which would be great advice for Schettino since every time he speaks it's obvious he has no remorse and the arrogance just reeks out of him. But I'm sure his attorney has tried to tell him to shut up but unlike his jr officers, his attorney probably did'nt know that nobody tells Schettino what to do.

Sure, this is my opinion, but at least I admit it.

Smurfette, Did you see Schettino falling on his sword to protect his crew? You have been asked many times, "How do you know this?" You never answer, Is it a secret?

[Tonka's Skipper]

Hi All

On Friday morning at 8am The massive Micoperi 30 will arive at Giglio. At over 7000 ton with accomodation for over 200, a Hospital, a Gym and two big cranes among other things. The barge has just sailed from Croatia after a major refit. Hopefully this may make progress move a bit faster.

Meanwhile there appears to be a body of opinion in Italy that the stress on the starboard side that will happen when the parbuckle begins will be too great and the starboard side will collapse.

Since the closing down of the Last Salute camera we have to rely on Giglio news for time lapse photography. Last Sunday I emailed Giglio news to ask if the port camera could be turned seaward and give a better view of the salvage. They replied on Sunday that the camera will be moved "in the next few days"

 

I am not surprised all the 2nd guessers are starting to post opinions.........

 

I have no insider knowledge, there was a great deal of stability and strength calculation done before this plan was approved. They would have determined if it as reasonable to expect her to hold together.

 

AKK

[Uniall]

Captain Schittino has been doing some consulting work with the IBC

(Irish Broadcasting Company) helping with their coverage of the Olympic Sail Boat Race.

 

 

Irish Broadcasting Coverage of Olympic Sail Boat Race

 

http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/08/irishman-gives-expert-olympic-sailing-commentary-video/

Edited August 10, 2012 by Uniall

[Max49]

Captain Schittino has been doing some consulting work with the IBC

(Irish Broadcasting Company) helping with their coverage of the Olympic Sail Boat Race.

 

 

Irish Broadcasting Coverage of Olympic Sail Boat Race

 

http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/08/irishman-gives-expert-olympic-sailing-commentary-video/

 

That's was hilarious! Well worth watching the whole vid if you need a good laugh.

[CtheW0rld]

Captain Schittino has been doing some consulting work with the IBC

(Irish Broadcasting Company) helping with their coverage of the Olympic Sail Boat Race.

 

 

Irish Broadcasting Coverage of Olympic Sail Boat Race

 

http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/08/irishman-gives-expert-olympic-sailing-commentary-video/

 

i'll have to wait until i get home. it is blocked at work.