We're heading out on Costa

[cruisetrail]

 

This doesn't mean that the US or the European is right or wrong. It simply means that when Americans come to Europe, they should accept that things are different then from home, as the same things applies to people from Europe when they travel to the US.

 

 

Yes, that is correct for tourism.

 

But on CC we are talking about cruise ships, not countries.

 

It has been addressed many times - never confuse Costa & MSC with Europe.

There is nothing "European" to justify lower quality of the product (food - more related to Costa, amenities - more related to MSC) and no-one should accept it as a norm.

 

[kfowinst]

Yes, that is correct for tourism.

 

But on CC we are talking about cruise ships, not countries.

 

It has been addressed many times - never confuse Costa & MSC with Europe.

There is nothing "European" to justify lower quality of the product (food - more related to Costa, amenities - more related to MSC) and no-one should accept it as a norm.

 

 

The croisants i had on luminosa looked more like those on the left.

They were no where near as good as those you get from pastry shops in paris, but better than you get from the supermarket.

 

The food on Costa Luminosa was definately European. Mostly Italian.

[phider]

Yes, that is correct for tourism.

 

But on CC we are talking about cruise ships, not countries.

 

I don't know what you are talking about, but the rest of us are talking about human beings. We are talking about human beings that board cruise ships, and they come from countries (and what follows with it).

 

It has been addressed many times - never confuse Costa & MSC with Europe.

 

You may believe that, I don't. So I choose to disagree strongly with you on your rationales. I believe that MSC and Costa produce food that represents the food style of Europe with an Italian twist.

 

There is nothing "European" to justify lower quality of the product (food - more related to Costa, amenities - more related to MSC) and no-one should accept it as a norm.

 

Agreed, regarding the statement "There is nothing "European" to justify lower quality of the product".

 

I have not heard that quality of the product is bad on Costa or MSC from anybody else but you, e.g. that Costa or MSC should produce food based on subpar or low quality of products.

 

I would like to hear from other people, besides cruisetrail, to support this.

 

 

How can you, with any sanity whatsoever, provide a picture of croissants on the left hand side, and put a headline on it that states "Europe"? This seriously amputates any credibility you may have, and shows how little you know about Europe, European countries, their history and diversity in culture.

 

There are no standards of croissants across countries in Europe, and you can get both good and bad croissants on land (of course!!!).

 

Regarding the comparison between the two pictures - I believe that they are completely nullified. I cannot see if the croissants on the right are of worse quality than the croissants on the left, as you want us to understand. I cannot see if the croissants on the right is more tasteful than the croissants on the left.

 

Also, you are not using the same camera and lighting environment, and I cannot see what you are doing with the lighting effects and color distortion - the pictures does not seem to have been taken under the same surrounding conditions.

 

We can agree that the presentation of the croissants on the pictures you provide, does warrant that the ones on the left looks better and more accommodating - but that is also the point of the comparison you are trying to state, so I cannot use it for anything.

 

Since you seem to be fond of using this picture (including your salmon picture from HAL), could you provide some more information on where they both where taken, and also, some evidence on the picture on the right. Also, could anyone else provide pictures of croissants from Costa ships, Carolyn maybe? Ill make sure when I go on Deliziosa in November. Thanks.

 

Being of French heritage myself, I have tasted many oh many croissants that looks accommodating like the ones you are trying to mark as superior on the left which is nothing more than air inside - hence no taste. Is that quality to you?

 

As a final statement. I don't try to defend either MSC or Costa on this topic. If they deliver subpar products or quality of ingredients or commodities to produce their food on board their cruises, they should hear of it and be rated based on that. But this is not what you are doing - you keep showing your pictures and make a statement, which any sane person that have tried to live on this Earth and in this World and have traveled across the 7 continents, would disregard simply as bogus.

 

Philip

Edited October 27, 2013 by phider

[cruisetrail]

I have not heard that quality of the product is bad on Costa or MSC from anybody else but you, e.g. that Costa or MSC should produce food based on subpar or low quality of products.

:)

 

How can you, with any sanity whatsoever, provide a picture of croissants on the left hand side, and put a headline on it that states "Europe"? This seriously amputates any credibility you may have, and shows how little you know about Europe, European countries, their history and diversity in culture.

My credibility should not concern you.

FYI I come frome Europe and international travel is a part of my profession.

Please read CC gidelines. Your posts are full of personal remarks and insults.

[cruisetrail]

The croisants i had on luminosa looked more like those on the left.

They were no where near as good as those you get from pastry shops in paris, but better than you get from the supermarket.

 

The food on Costa Luminosa was definately European. Mostly Italian.

 

I will welcome any positive (long time overdue) changes on Costa.:)

 

What is "food" on a cruise ship and how to assess (compare) it.

[Blondie008]

 

What is "food" on a cruise ship and how to assess (compare) it.

 

 

You are not showing how to compare Food, you compare DINING OPTIONS -

You may be a cruise ship expert - I am a food professional.

Availability (or/and choices) of dining options is not what I was referring to. I was - as is stated - referring to the quality of FOOD - food is that which one consumes - where and when one consumes it is another matter entirely.

I know many "two Michelin" starred restaurants who open only in the evening for dinner- they do not serve lunch (or hey, afternoon tea for that matter) - FACT is - their food is sublime.

One can dine in KFC 24/7 if one so desires - the food is C%^P but hey, the option is there.

What you are constantly "comparing" "charting" and referring to are "dining restaurant options". Not food.

[editor@cruisecritic]

Philiip put it beautifully.

 

Just a couple of quick notes:

 

*Do not miss the Italian-themed night in the main dining room. It's the most fun we've ever had at dinner, napkin waving waiters, a soloist (who happened to be our own waiter) singing O Sole Mio and breaking hearts, a passenger-led conga line, some sort of rather wacky macho kind of dance routine in which three male waiters started to take off their tops, and finally, a very elegant request by waiters and maitre 'ds to passengers to dance, old-timey, in the aisles. This was all before dessert! Fabulous.

 

*There've been a couple of great moments in elevators, once with French passengers, another time with a pair of Russians and a third with an Italian family, in which something struck us all simultaneously as funny. We were all talking in our various languages but were on the same page together, and it was...lovely.

 

*I've found, contrary to a post or member read review somewhere that bar stuff was pushing drinks too hard, that's it's actually quite difficult to get drinks. They're usually quite busy putting stuff away or doing non-customer-related tasks and ignoring folks for a while. It's about 20 - 25 minute wait for a drink if you're not lucky. I wouldn't mention this if it weren't a consistent experience. Everywhere else onboard, the service is lovely -- from the restaurant to my Indonesian cabin steward Rudi, who's efficient, sweet and thoughtful.

 

*Pasta. Is. Insanely. Good. Everywhere (except maybe the Lido buffet. There, the freshly-made pizza is insanely. good.)

 

*The spa. Fabulous. More on that to come.

 

Carolyn

 

I think it has been mentioned a couple of times in different posts, both in the Costa and MSC areas on this forum, but to sum it up shortly, my experience is the following (I am from a country in Europe).

 

Before I list the differences, remember that EU and Europe is not the same - since many Americans don't know this. The European Union (EU) is an economic and political union of 28 member states (read independent countries, with their own laws) that are located primarily in Europe. Europe is a continent, and is the second part of Eurasia.

• Culture: Unlike the US, there is no such thing as an European culture or European standard as such. What characterise Europe is that we are ~50 countries and 740 mill. people with many different ways of doing things. With that being said, there are some overall terms that can be said to be a general European way or standard.
  
• Service: The take at service in most countries in Europe is very different from the American way. This does not mean that there are not bad service in European countries as there is in the US. The main general different from most European countries compared to the US, is that we enjoy relaxed, casual and distanced service with a smile and approaching and helpful when you call the attention of a service personnel - we also call this to have an authentic feeling of service. Most Europeans sees the American service approach to be fake, up in your face, very superficial and I personally feel like I am being addressed like a child in many American situations where you are provided with service.
  
• Food: Authentic European food is, also in my own personal experience, very different from the US food, as for example, Italian food served in a US Italian restaurant is US adapted. This means that it can be a surprise for Americans when they witness real Italian cuisine, if they have a tendency to only like food from their home country. Also, European cruise liners seems to make a different mix of different food from countries all around Europe, and as authentic as possible. Costa and MSC is said to serve their dishes and food with an Italian twist.
  
• Languages: Since Europe is so much larger then the US and consists of so many different independent countries, announcements are made in the languages covering the largest countries, this being languages such as German (82 mill. people), French (65 mill. people), Italian (62 mill. people), Spanish (50 mill. people) and English as a neutral language.
  
• Queues: It is very different in Europe how people behaves in queues, there is no red thread on this. Many European countries shares the exact same way of queuing as the US and some don't.
  
• It's in the details: There are so many smaller things to it, that it is too wast a task to list in just a couple of minutes to write this response, but for example. Europeans do not have a custom of drinking that much Ice Tea and Lemonade or having tap water served at the table etc. etc. But this also goes the other way. When I am in the US, I always ask the waiters politely not to bring me any water to the table, as I cant stand smelling to tap water with such a high amount of chlorine.
  

This doesn't mean that the US or the European is right or wrong. It simply means that when Americans come to Europe, they should accept that things are different then from home, as the same things applies to people from Europe when they travel to the US.

 

It is just so very annoying and very blunt, to read reviews from Americans on an European liner, when most of their dissatisfaction stems from the cultural differences, when they are served as lousy food and bad service instead.

 

Hope this gave you a little insight.

 

Philip

Edited October 28, 2013 by editor@cruisecritic

[editor@cruisecritic]

Hi, Barb. I'll admit I was a bit surprised at some of the negative comments about the cabin photo on Facebook. It's a good cabin!!!

 

Anyway, I think if you're under the walkway (as opposed to table and chair set ups) you should be okay but you can hear pretty clearly when people, er, kids, are running on the deck above. Also the sound proofing of the cabin doors is pretty weak (I haven't minded it, it's like city noise to me, kind of comforting).

 

I'm on 7 and probably would say that's a better choice just because you've got cabin decks above and below.

 

Carolyn

 

Hi Carolyn,

 

I'm glad to hear the hand sanitizers are out for people to use! Hygiene is important especially after being on several cruises that had the norovirus outbreak!! Nothing worse than having your vacation spoiled by getting sick!!

 

I noticed on FB that you have a balcony cabin. If I may ask, what deck are you on? We booked a BP Cabin on deck 8, below the walkway into the buffet area. I'm hoping its not too noisy. Thanks for sharing a pic of your cabin! Happy to hear the shower is a bit larger than the standard size.:)

 

Barb

[Capricruiser]

Just a point about cruisetrail photos of croissants: The "croissants" found on Costa ships just like those in any bar or pastry shop in Italy are Cornetti and have little relationship to French croissants. Cornetti are heavier than crossiants and come with fillings, creme, marmalade, chocolate, and even plain.

[cruising oceangal]

Hi, Barb. I'll admit I was a bit surprised at some of the negative comments about the cabin photo on Facebook. It's a good cabin!!!

 

Anyway, I think if you're under the walkway (as opposed to table and chair set ups) you should be okay but you can hear pretty clearly when people, er, kids, are running on the deck above. Also the sound proofing of the cabin doors is pretty weak (I haven't minded it, it's like city noise to me, kind of comforting).

 

I'm on 7 and probably would say that's a better choice just because you've got cabin decks above and below.

 

Carolyn

 

Hi Carolyn,

 

I also cannot believe the negative remarks on FB. It surprised me how many will not even consider Costa without ever trying the line! We've had some bad experiences but would never let it ruin our vacation or our decision to cruise again on the same cruise line. Your phrase about "swinging a cat" was too funny!! I knew exactly what you meant, lol!!:)

 

I may change our cabin to deck 7, already asked our TA to look into it. Are the balconies partially covered or open? What type of furniture do they have? We really enjoy using our balcony and I couldn't find much info about the size, etc. The deck plan of the balcony looked a bit larger than your normal size but they can be deceiving, lol!

 

The Italian night in the MDR sounds like fun!! Quite the show!! Looking forward to hearing your spa comments, too!!

 

Its great to be cruising along with you, thanks for sharing!

 

Barb

[AnonymousCruiser69]

Just a point about cruisetrail photos of croissants: The "croissants" found on Costa ships just like those in any bar or pastry shop in Italy are Cornetti and have little relationship to French croissants. Cornetti are heavier than crossiants and come with fillings, creme, marmalade, chocolate, and even plain.

 

i love the chocolate ones. omg.

[phider]

Just a point about cruisetrail photos of croissants: The "croissants" found on Costa ships just like those in any bar or pastry shop in Italy are Cornetti and have little relationship to French croissants. Cornetti are heavier than crossiants and come with fillings, creme, marmalade, chocolate, and even plain.

 

That's a good point. Italian cornetto are also a lot softer than croissants, which is a lot more crisp.

 

Philip

[chrispb]

The croissants on the left look as if they have a sweet glaze on them. As croissants are also eaten savoury (with ham, etc) then those without the glaze are preferable.

 

Philip & Blondie - excellent posts and I agree with both of you wholeheartedly.

 

The desserts on Costa are also way above those of other cruiselines (eg HAL). A plus point is when I'm dithering which to choose, the waiters bring me both, yay.:D

[cricketts]

I think it has been mentioned a couple of times in different posts, both in the Costa and MSC areas on this forum, but to sum it up shortly, my experience is the following (I am from a country in Europe).

 

 

Before I list the differences, remember that EU and Europe is not the same - since many Americans don't know this. The European Union (EU) is an economic and political union of 28 member states (read independent countries, with their own laws) that are located primarily in Europe. Europe is a continent, and is the second part of Eurasia.

• Culture: Unlike the US, there is no such thing as an European culture or European standard as such. What characterise Europe is that we are ~50 countries and 740 mill. people with many different ways of doing things. With that being said, there are some overall terms that can be said to be a general European way or standard.
  
• Service: The take at service in most countries in Europe is very different from the American way. This does not mean that there are not bad service in European countries as there is in the US. The main general different from most European countries compared to the US, is that we enjoy relaxed, casual and distanced service with a smile and approaching and helpful when you call the attention of a service personnel - we also call this to have an authentic feeling of service. Most Europeans sees the American service approach to be fake, up in your face, very superficial and I personally feel like I am being addressed like a child in many American situations where you are provided with service.
  
• Food: Authentic European food is, also in my own personal experience, very different from the US food, as for example, Italian food served in a US Italian restaurant is US adapted. This means that it can be a surprise for Americans when they witness real Italian cuisine, if they have a tendency to only like food from their home country. Also, European cruise liners seems to make a different mix of different food from countries all around Europe, and as authentic as possible. Costa and MSC is said to serve their dishes and food with an Italian twist.
  
• Languages: Since Europe is so much larger then the US and consists of so many different independent countries, announcements are made in the languages covering the largest countries, this being languages such as German (82 mill. people), French (65 mill. people), Italian (62 mill. people), Spanish (50 mill. people) and English as a neutral language.
  
• Queues: It is very different in Europe how people behaves in queues, there is no red thread on this. Many European countries shares the exact same way of queuing as the US and some don't.
  
• It's in the details: There are so many smaller things to it, that it is too wast a task to list in just a couple of minutes to write this response, but for example. Europeans do not have a custom of drinking that much Ice Tea and Lemonade or having tap water served at the table etc. etc. But this also goes the other way. When I am in the US, I always ask the waiters politely not to bring me any water to the table, as I cant stand smelling to tap water with such a high amount of chlorine.
  

This doesn't mean that the US or the European is right or wrong. It simply means that when Americans come to Europe, they should accept that things are different then from home, as the same things applies to people from Europe when they travel to the US.

 

It is just so very annoying and very blunt, to read reviews from Americans on an European liner, when most of their dissatisfaction stems from the cultural differences, when they are served as lousy food and bad service instead.

 

Hope this gave you a little insight.

 

Philip

Thank you for your very informative insight!

[cruisetrail]

You are not showing how to compare Food, you compare DINING OPTIONS -

You may be a cruise ship expert - I am a food professional.

Availability (or/and choices) of dining options is not what I was referring to. I was - as is stated - referring to the quality of FOOD - food is that which one consumes - where and when one consumes it is another matter entirely.

I know many "two Michelin" starred restaurants who open only in the evening for dinner- they do not serve lunch (or hey, afternoon tea for that matter) - FACT is - their food is sublime.

One can dine in KFC 24/7 if one so desires - the food is C%^P but hey, the option is there.

What you are constantly "comparing" "charting" and referring to are "dining restaurant options". Not food.

 

You need to undestand that "food" on cruise ships is not limited to something on your plate in MDR.

"Food" is the whole concept - variety and accessibility of the food service included in the price (first and foremost).

By definition it is assumed that food - whatever is actually on your plate - is prepared properly.

Tastes differ and are not discussed. The taste of the food cannot be objectively assessed in a review.

We can make the assessment as objective as possible.

A professional approach is to follow the way the service was designed: from major things to details as far as possible - until we reach the subjective part.

In a good review you'll find info on free and extra charge dining options available, menus, pictures - everything factual.

These will right away tell those who know what kind of a ship is in front of you.:)

"We could not find anything good from the menu.." - this is not enough - post the menu!

A picture is worth a thousand words. Yes, indeed.

A picture with ugly croissants on the right - someone says: "Cornetti are heavier than crossiants". However, as one can see in the photo these bakery products cannot hold shape (actually empty), the "skin" is like paper and they are jammed like paper.

 

You can add your subjective comment on how a particular item tastes in your opinion - no one will blame you for that.

 

Denying objective things won't contribute much to adult discussion.

[kfowinst]

Please can someone post some pictures of croissants / cornetti from Costa Luminosa and put us out of our misery!! Lol

Edited October 28, 2013 by kfowinst

[pmacher61]

Agreed, regarding the statement "There is nothing "European" to justify lower quality of the product".

I have not heard that quality of the product is bad on Costa or MSC from anybody else but you, e.g. that Costa or MSC should produce food based on subpar or low quality of products.

I would like to hear from other people, besides cruisetrail, to support this.

Philip

 

Below is a cc of the page from the CC Cruisers Choice all time poll on dining. It lists ships from highest rated to lowest. About 250 ships have been reviewed the requisite minimum number of times to qualify for inclusion in this tabulation. There have been over 125,000 reviews published. A couple of interesting points.

1. With one exception (Preziosa), every MSC and Costa ship (26 in total) is rated lower than every single HAL, Royal Caribbean, Carnival, Celebrity, NCL (save one) ship, a total of about 110 ships.

2. MSC and Costa ships occupy 23 spots of the lowest rated 27 spots on the list.

 

 

Now this rating system is far from perfect. There are many anomalies that one can argue demonstrate the total lack of utility. Probably Americans constitute a greater and disproportionate amount of cruisers who have submitted reviews (that might make it more useful for Americans). Some may argue that the 1450 MSC reviews and 1000 Costa reviews which have been tabulated are an insufficient sampling to indicate any reliability within a reasonable degree of probability. Nevertheless, the results are pretty indicative that the CC members (probably a more experienced lot than a pure random sampling of those who have cruised) also believe the food on MSC and Costa doesn't compare well with the competition. After all, CC continues to tabulate these ratings, continues to promote its CC Cruises Choice Poll and publishes the results prominently.

 

I do not believe that the poor showing of MSC and Costa can be explained away by referencing the unsophisticated palate of the reviewers, although the majority may be American. I believe it is at least as plausible that the quality of the food served on board MSC and Costa is just not as good, period.

 

 

Dining Ratings

Sort by: Highest Rated Ships First

 

Diamant 5.3

River Empress 5.2

SeaDream I 5.2

Saga Ruby 5.2

Crystal Symphony 5.1

Viking Danube 5.1

Seabourn Legend 5.1

SeaDream II 5.1

Seabourn Quest 5.0

River Ambassador 5.0

River Baroness 5.0

Queen of the Mississippi 5.0

S.S. Antoinette 4.9

Marina 4.9

Riviera 4.9

Seabourn Spirit 4.9

Viking Spirit 4.9

Crystal Serenity 4.9

Prince Albert II 4.9

Azamara Journey 4.8

Celebrity Reflection 4.8

Paul Gauguin 4.7

Azamara Quest 4.7

River Royale 4.7

Viking Freya 4.7

Seabourn Odyssey 4.7

Nautica 4.7

Disney Fantasy 4.7

Seven Seas Mariner 4.7

Wind Surf 4.7

Wilderness Discoverer 4.6

Regatta 4.6

River Queen 4.6

Pacific Princess 4.6

Black Watch 4.6

Celebrity Equinox 4.6

Seabourn Pride 4.6

Silver Whisper 4.6

Celebrity Eclipse 4.6

Avalon Felicity 4.6

River Duchess 4.5

Viking Prestige 4.5

Eurodam 4.5

Viking Schumann 4.5

Seabourn Sojourn 4.5

Viking Kirov 4.5

Viking Sun 4.4

Star Flyer 4.4

Wind Star 4.4

Nieuw Amsterdam 4.4

River Beatrice 4.4

Adonia 4.4

Viking Embla 4.4

Celebrity Century 4.4

Minerva 4.4

Serenade of the Seas 4.4

Celebrity Solstice 4.4

Thomson Celebration 4.4

Seven Seas Navigator 4.4

Wind Spirit 4.4

Oceana 4.4

Silver Spirit 4.4

Celebrity Silhouette 4.4

Viking Odin 4.4

Celebrity Xpedition 4.4

Noordam 4.3

Thomson Spirit 4.3

Oasis of the Seas 4.3

Disney Magic 4.3

Carnival Miracle 4.3

Finnmarken 4.3

Silver Wind 4.3

Thomson Dream 4.3

Viking Emerald 4.3

Braemar 4.3

Viking Legend 4.3

Viking Pride 4.3

Rhapsody of the Seas 4.3

MSC Preziosa 4.3

Freedom of the Seas 4.3

Avalon Tranquility 4.3

Ocean Princess 4.3

Amsterdam 4.3

Disney Dream 4.3

Silver Explorer 4.3

Queen Victoria 4.3

Oosterdam 4.3

Radiance of the Seas 4.3

Carnival Conquest 4.3

Celebrity Summit 4.3

Carnival Valor 4.3

Boudicca 4.3

Grandeur of the Seas 4.3

Adventure of the Seas 4.3

Viking Njord 4.3

Enchantment of the Seas 4.3

Allure of the Seas 4.3

Coral Princess 4.3

Zuiderdam 4.3

Mariner of the Seas 4.3

Volendam 4.3

Celebrity Constellation 4.3

Ruby Princess 4.3

Maasdam 4.3

Viking Helvetia 4.2

Balmoral 4.2

Carnival Legend 4.2

Avalon Tapestry 4.2

Royal Princess 4.2

Ventura 4.2

Celebrity Infinity 4.2

Ryndam 4.2

Sun Princess 4.2

Westerdam 4.2

Tahitian Princess 4.2

Diamond Princess 4.2

Seven Seas Voyager 4.2

Viking Europe 4.2

Sea Princess 4.2

Statendam 4.2

Avalon Panorama 4.2

Aurora 4.2

Celebrity Millennium 4.2

Royal Clipper 4.2

Carnival Inspiration 4.2

Caribbean Princess 4.2

Explorer of the Seas 4.2

Emerald Princess 4.2

Dawn Princess 4.2

Grand Princess 4.2

Zaandam 4.2

Island Princess 4.1

Voyager of the Seas 4.1

Jewel of the Seas 4.1

Carnival Triumph 4.1

Navigator of the Seas 4.1

Norwegian Epic 4.1

Independence of the Seas 4.1

Silver Shadow 4.1

Thomson Majesty 4.1

Liberty of the Seas 4.1

Veendam 4.1

Golden Princess 4.1

Sapphire Princess 4.1

American Queen 4.1

Queen Elizabeth 4.1

Viking Sky 4.1

Splendour of the Seas 4.1

Star Princess 4.1

Carnival Glory 4.1

Carnival Pride 4.1

Queen Mary 2 (QM2) 4.1

Legend of the Seas 4.1

Carnival Spirit 4.1

Carnival Freedom 4.1

Carnival Fantasy 4.1

Majesty of the Seas 4.1

Carnival Elation 4.1

Rotterdam 4.1

Carnival Ecstasy 4.1

Azura 4.1

Carnival Dream 4.1

AmaLyra 4.0

Carnival Imagination 4.0

Vision of the Seas 4.0

Prinsendam 4.0

Crown Princess 4.0

Carnival Liberty 4.0

Carnival Fascination 4.0

Oriana 4.0

Carnival Victory 4.0

Aegean Odyssey 4.0

Carnival Destiny 4.0

Midnatsol 4.0

L'Austral 4.0

Disney Wonder 4.0

Bahamas Celebration 4.0

Carnival Sensation 4.0

Carnival Paradise 4.0

Norwegian Pearl 4.0

Norwegian Breakaway 4.0

Viking Helgi 4.0

Norwegian Jewel 4.0

Brilliance of the Seas 4.0

Carnival Splendor 4.0

Independence 4.0

Tere Moana 3.9

Viking Aegir 3.9

Carnival Sunshine 3.9

Silver Cloud 3.9

Norwegian Jade 3.9

Carnival Magic 3.9

Viking Idun 3.9

Viking Neptune 3.9

Norwegian Dawn 3.9

Norwegian Spirit 3.9

Norwegian Wind 3.9

Norwegian Crown 3.9

Avalon Affinity 3.9

Avalon Scenery 3.9

Norwegian Gem 3.8

Saga Sapphire 3.8

Pacific Jewel 3.8

Ocean Countess 3.8

Norwegian Sun 3.8

Island Escape 3.8

Norwegian Star 3.8

Arcadia 3.8

Carnival Breeze 3.7

Norwegian Sky 3.7

SuperStar Virgo 3.7

Discovery 3.7

Richard With 3.6

Pride of America 3.6

Fram 3.6

AmaCerto 3.6

neoRomantica 3.6

Viking Ingvar 3.5

Costa Atlantica 3.5

Pacific Pearl 3.5

Marco Polo 3.5

Costa Allegra 3.5

Queen of the West 3.5

Pacific Dawn 3.5

Costa Deliziosa 3.5

MSC Sinfonia 3.5

Costa Fortuna 3.5

Costa Mediterranea 3.5

MSC Fantasia 3.4

MSC Splendida 3.4

Costa Victoria 3.4

MSC Armonia 3.4

Costa Serena 3.4

Viking Surkov 3.4

Costa Favolosa 3.4

MSC Divina 3.3

Costa Pacifica 3.3

MSC Orchestra 3.3

MSC Magnifica 3.3

Costa Magica 3.2

MSC Opera 3.2

Costa Luminosa 3.2

Costa Classica 3.1

Costa Concordia 3.1

MSC Poesia 3.1

MSC Lirica 3.1

Pride of Aloha 3.1

Costa Fascinosa 3.0

Amakatarina 3.0

Avalon Imagery 3.0

MSC Musica 2.7

Edited October 29, 2013 by pmacher61

[Projunior]

Now this rating system is far from perfect. There are many anomalies that one can argue demonstrate the total lack of utility. Probably Americans constitute a greater and disproportionate amount of cruisers who have submitted reviews (that might make it more useful for Americans). Some may argue that the 1450 MSC reviews and 1000 Costa reviews which have been tabulated are an insufficient sampling to indicate any reliability within a reasonable degree of probability.

 

First you postulate why the results may be flawed. Then you immediately turn around and completely dismiss the very concerns that you yourself raised:

 

Nevertheless, the results are pretty indicative that the CC members (probably a more experienced lot than a pure random sampling of those who have cruised) also believe the food on MSC and Costa doesn't compare well with the competition.

 

Pretty indicative? Indicate of what? If the sample size is flawed, or if the sample population is unrepresentative, or if the opinion givers are biased, then a poll is invalid. And in this case we have the invalidity trifecta. No one can possibly argue that the teeny sliver of cruisers who bother to take the time to submit a CC review could possibly be construed as a reliable sample from which to draw a conclusion about anything. Ascertaining the quality of the food served on Costa based on the ratings of an infinitesimally small, skewed, non-representative sample of passengers is junk science at its finest and scariest.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Projunior

[phider]

First you postulate why the results may be flawed. Then you immediately turn around and completely dismiss the very concerns that you yourself raised:

 

 

 

Pretty indicative? Indicate of what? If the sample size is flawed, or if the sample population is unrepresentative, or if the opinion givers are biased, then a poll is invalid. And in this case we have the invalidity trifecta. No one can possibly argue that the teeny sliver of cruisers who bother to take the time to submit a CC review could possibly be construed as a reliable sample from which to draw a conclusion about anything. Ascertaining the quality of the food served on Costa based on the ratings of an infinitesimally small, skewed, non-representative sample of passengers is junk science at its finest and scariest.

 

I could not have responded better myself. Thank you.

 

Also, I think it is important to note how Americans react, and how that results in a review and scoring. The thread on the MSC Cruises part of the forum, is a good example - in my opinion - although not representative for all of course:

 

Look at the choice of wording.

 

Water and Ice Tea in the Main Dining Rooms

 

#1:

I sailed on the MSC Musica and my family on the inaugural cruise of the beautiful MSC Preziosa earlier this year. In both ocasions, we all could not believe when we asked for regular iced water or ice tea during our meals at the dining rooms and were informed that we needed to buy bottled water and that iced water is not served.

What a petty way to get extra revenue from your customers.

I'm planing to sail on the MSC Divina in December out of Miami, but will not book until I hear from you if this unpleasant practice is still in place. All the rest was great, but for me this could be a deal breaker.

 

#2:

We had the same disappointment on our MSC Musica cruise November 2012 RT Venice. We were otherwise pleased, but could not believe we were not even served complimentary ice water. We also feel that this will affect our decision making for future cruises.

 

I am not trying to hang anyone out here, but this is fact, and it needs to be acknowledged when non-Americans read reviews. MSC Cruises even provides Americans with free daily vouchers for bottled water at the MDR, to complement the difference in culture and norm.

 

Philip

Edited October 29, 2013 by phider

[AnonymousCruiser69]

I could not have responded better myself. Thank you.

 

Also, I think it is important to note how Americans react, and how that results in a review and scoring. The thread on the MSC Cruises part of the forum, is a good example - in my opinion - although not representative for all of course:

 

Look at the choice of wording.

 

Water and Ice Tea in the Main Dining Rooms

 

#1:

I sailed on the MSC Musica and my family on the inaugural cruise of the beautiful MSC Preziosa earlier this year. In both ocasions, we all could not believe when we asked for regular iced water or ice tea during our meals at the dining rooms and were informed that we needed to buy bottled water and that iced water is not served.

What a petty way to get extra revenue from your customers.

I'm planing to sail on the MSC Divina in December out of Miami, but will not book until I hear from you if this unpleasant practice is still in place. All the rest was great, but for me this could be a deal breaker.

 

#2:

We had the same disappointment on our MSC Musica cruise November 2012 RT Venice. We were otherwise pleased, but could not believe we were not even served complimentary ice water. We also feel that this will affect our decision making for future cruises.

 

I am not trying to hang anyone out here, but this is fact, and it needs to be acknowledged when non-Americans read reviews. MSC Cruises even provides Americans with free daily vouchers for bottled water at the MDR, to complement the difference in culture and norm.

 

Philip

 

you can't paint all Americans with the same brush. it is the very vocal minority doing the majority of complaining. especially one, on this board (who i now have on 'ignore'.)

 

i have always asked for, and received regular tap water on costa. not a problem. nor have i ever starved on any cruise (although i did lose 5 pounds once on a carnival transatlantic).

 

i think some may be losing sight of what this food is: mass-produced banquet caliber food. i view this as true for all cruiselines with the possible exception of the very small ultra-luxury lines.

Edited October 29, 2013 by AnonymousCruiser69

[phider]

you can't paint all Americans with the same brush. it is the very vocal minority doing the majority of complaining. especially one, on this board (who i now have on 'ignore'.)

 

I completely agree - I hope this was clear in my post. What I tried to illustrate, is how some react, trying to show the picture of how someone could imagine this reflected in a review.

 

Philip

Edited October 29, 2013 by phider

[pmacher61]

First you postulate why the results may be flawed. Then you immediately turn around and completely dismiss the very concerns that you yourself raised:

You are mischaracterizing what I said. I didn't "postulate" the results may be flawed. Here is what I said:

There are many anomalies that one can argue demonstrate the total lack of utility. Probably Americans constitute a greater and disproportionate amount of cruisers who have submitted reviews (that might make it more useful for Americans). Some may argue that the 1450 MSC reviews and 1000 Costa reviews which have been tabulated are an insufficient sampling to indicate any reliability within a reasonable degree of probability.

 

And that's exactly what you are doing. Arguing. I conceded that the poll is not perfect, but when every single MSC and Costa ship (about 26) save one is rated lower than every other mass market ship (about 120), it seems to me that one could reasonably conclude the food on MSC and Costa is not as good as the food served on the other mass market lines. Stated another way, it is highly likely that I or any other American would find the food on Costa and MSC inferior to the food on other mass market lines.

 

Also, it is probable that many non-Americans would share that opinion...unless you believe that the American palate is so distinct, so incapable of enjoying Italian food, that in no way can it indicate to non-Americans what is good. And I don't believe that.

 

 

Pretty indicative? Indicate of what? If the sample size is flawed, or if the sample population is unrepresentative, or if the opinion givers are biased, then a poll is invalid. And in this case we have the invalidity trifecta. No one can possibly argue that the teeny sliver of cruisers who bother to take the time to submit a CC review could possibly be construed as a reliable sample from which to draw a conclusion about anything. Ascertaining the quality of the food served on Costa based on the ratings of an infinitesimally small, skewed, non-representative sample of passengers is junk science at its finest and scariest.

 

You have not convinced me that the sample size is "flawed", unrepresentative, or biased. How many individuals have to be polled from a large group (all mass market cruisers) for a poll to be useful? Perhaps some statistician can elucidate, but it seems to me 2500 opinions can give reasonable insight into what a few million think.

Look, you can argue all you want what the poll does or does not indicate because it may not be a truly scientific random sampling. However, I find nothing you have or others have written is convincing. I think the results do indicate something when all 26 MSC and Costa ships save one are rated lower than all other mass market ships.

[AnonymousCruiser69]

You are mischaracterizing what I said. I didn't "postulate" the results may be flawed. Here is what I said:

 

 

And that's exactly what you are doing. Arguing. I conceded that the poll is not perfect, but when every single MSC and Costa ship (about 26) save one is rated lower than every other mass market ship (about 120), it seems to me that one could reasonably conclude the food on MSC and Costa is not as good as the food served on the other mass market lines. Stated another way, it is highly likely that I or any other American would find the food on Costa and MSC inferior to the food on other mass market lines.

 

Also, it is probable that many non-Americans would share that opinion...unless you believe that the American palate is so distinct, so incapable of enjoying Italian food, that in no way can it indicate to non-Americans what is good. And I don't believe that.

 

 

 

 

You have not convinced me that the sample size is "flawed", unrepresentative, or biased. How many individuals have to be polled from a large group (all mass market cruisers) for a poll to be useful? Perhaps some statistician can elucidate, but it seems to me 2500 opinions can give reasonable insight into what a few million think.

Look, you can argue all you want what the poll does or does not indicate because it may not be a truly scientific random sampling. However, I find nothing you have or others have written is convincing. I think the results do indicate something when all 26 MSC and Costa ships save one are rated lower than all other mass market ships.

 

cruisecritic is used almost exclusively by english speakers - Americans. that in itself makes the polls skewed. i never answered that poll.

[pmacher61]

cruisecritic is used almost exclusively by english speakers - Americans. that in itself makes the polls skewed. i never answered that poll.

At least I trust you concede that the poll is, in fact, useful for Americans.

 

Does the palate of Americans vary so greatly from the palate of non-Americans that the likes and dislikes of the Americans have absolutely no relevance for others? I don't believe that. Not all Americans think Olive Garden is good Italian cuisine. It is naive to think so.

I don't dispute that some cultural or ethnic originated subjective taste preferences may distinguish a European palate from a standard American palate; however, the vast majority of Americans who can afford to cruise - even the mass market demographic - know good food when they taste it just as they know mediocre food when they taste it. That is, there are limitations on the subjective palate distinctions between Americans and non-Americans.

 

The CC poll results are so dramatic that I think it is indicative that even Europeans are likely to find dining on MSC and Costa inferior to the other mass market lines.

Edited October 29, 2013 by pmacher61

[phider]

Does the palate of Americans vary so greatly from the palate of non-Americans that the likes and dislikes of the Americans have absolutely no relevance for others? I don't believe that. Not all Americans think Olive Garden is good Italian cuisine. It is naive to think so.

 

It has nothing to do with palate as far as my experience goes. It is a matter of accepting that things are not as home. If you see me previous post, you can see that some Americans are able and willing to give such bad reviews solely because MSC don't service iced water at the MDR - so much so that it will directly affect their decision making for future cruises, even though it is the only (apparently) issue they have had.

 

I am not trying to take a few of these examples, and turn that into the sole rationale. My point is that it does not seem to be palate, but simply cuisine.

 

I don't really blame Americans.. how should they know? Many live in an isolated world, where everything is US adapted. Being European, we are much more subjected to verity and difference.

 

The same goes with Europeans going to China or Japan - most Chinese and Japanese restaurants in Europe are European adapted, and the same goes - you might be negatively surprised if you don't realize that.

 

Philip