Today Show (U.S.) piece on Venice ban on cruise ships

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Do you really think that it wouldn't be cheaper to shop on the mainland regardless of tourism. Venice isn't the easiest place to ship food too. It's not like a truck can pull up behind a grocery story in Venice. It has to come by barge. So it will always be more expensive. There is one Co-Op right in Piazzale Roma which would probably be the case even if there weren't tourists.

 

I am not arguing that residential life in Venice is expensive, but it would be regardless of tourism. Do you really think the locals have what it takes to keep these expensive buildings with water foundations in top shape? It's tourism that is probably preserving the city for future generations. If tourism wasn't so lucrative- then it would revert back to housing for the locals.

 

Younger people probably don't want to live in Venice. They would be more interested in going to University towns and cities where things are more exciting and jobs are in demand.

 

Not defending my personal need to go to Venice but I think that this isn't really as simple as some try to make it.

Edited July 31, 2014 by rebeccalouiseagain

[TLCOhio]

I actually went and read some of the reports prepared by experts who have examined the situation. It has more to do with the amount of water displaced by these large ships as they enter and leave the lagoon. While it would be less scenic and convenient to stop sailing down Giudeca canal and dock in a different area, I would rather that than see Venice deteriorate at an ever-faster rate. For those who've said that people would stop visiting Venice because of this -- that's just silly. Cruise ships dock an hour and an hour and a half from Rome and Florence, respectively, and people still flock there.

 

Pet Nit Noy: Nothing in life is one-sided. The residents of Venice don't necessarily agree that tourism -- cruise or otherwise -- helps the economy. The cost of living in Venice has climbed beyond the reach of more and more residents.

 

rebeccalouiseagain: Vaporetto tickets' date=' port taxes, meals, souveniers, gelato, post cards, tours of the glass factory, pre and post cruise hotel stays, water taxi rides, train tickets to or from Venice. It helps the economy to have tourists come to Venice. [/quote']

 

Appreciate the various added items of information, perspective and opinion. There does not seem to be one perfect, easy, sure answer or solution. Even if we could snap our fingers right now and have the cruise ships dock fives miles away, the honest reality is (like in parts of New Orleans) . . . that Venice is slowly sinking. Contrary to statements on this thread, the cruise ships are not sailing on the historic Grand Canal. Along that historic waterway however,, there are lots and lots of smaller and medium ships going up and down, creating waves, possibly doing some damage, too???

 

Should any and all ships being prohibited from using every one of the many waterways in Venice?

 

Yes, Venice is super costly for "residents" to own and be able to actually live there. That is not all the fault of us tourists. These older buildings are very costly to repair and maintain. Getting materials and workers there, dealing with the complex protective building codes, etc., all send such costs up, UP and UP!! Without the tourism revenue, where's the millions of dollars yearly and the economics to fund these building repairs and maintenance?

 

As Venice and all of us "age", it gets more costly and challenging to deal with these "sagging" questions. Not simple to solve. Personally, I think it is a much bigger, long-term question for Venice than only banning large cruise ship sailing down this one wide waterway.

 

Just glad, starting with my first visit to Venice in December 1970 as a college student, to have been there and experienced the amazing glory, history, architecture and character of this world-class location. Been back in 1999 and 2011. Look forward to visiting Venice again in the future.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 151,309 views. Nice to be hitting this high of a level for viewership. Appreciate the interest and follow-up questions/comments!!

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[Pet Nit Noy]

Younger people probably don't want to live in Venice. They would be more interested in going to University towns and cities where things are more exciting and jobs are in demand.

 

Time to clean up some mistakes that have crept into posts, mine included.

 

The current route of cruise ships is the Giudecca Canal not the Grand Canal as I wrote.

 

There are two public universities located in Venice, although neither is considered one of the premier universities in Italy:

Ca'Foscari, University of Venice (eight departments -- science and humanities/just under 20,000 students)

Luav, University of Venice (specialty in architecture and city planning/fewer than 10,000 students)

 

There are thirty thousand students in Venice yet I wonder how many tourists are even aware of that. I happen to know of the existence of the Luav because my husband and I have hired private guides who are students at the university.

 

Not defending my personal need to go to Venice but I think that this isn't really as simple as some try to make it.

 

If this comment is a response to my post, I'm confused. The whole point of my post was to emphasize the complexity of the problem.

 

Without some facts, all we are expressing is personal preference and wishful thinking. Cruisemom has shared some hard data about the impact of ships sailing alongside the island; I've offered a resource for posters who want to learn about the locals' perception of tourism (both cruise and "land" travel). Thorough, more objective sources of information and thoughtful, more objective thinking are essential if the complex problem is ever going to be solved.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Pet Nit Noy

[rebeccalouiseagain]

My friend went to university in Venice and I'm aware that there are students there. I meant larger towns or cities where more is happening for the young people. You can't keep a car in Venice as a general rule (at least not conveniently- would have to be kept on the mainland or Piazzale Roma for a huge expense). It's a nice place to visit, but expensive to live in and lacks places to play sports and that sort of thing. Very limiting for most people.

Edited July 31, 2014 by rebeccalouiseagain

[cruisemom42]

My friend went to university in Venice and I'm aware that there are students there. I meant larger towns or cities where more is happening for the young people. You can't keep a car in Venice as a general rule (at least not conveniently- would have to be kept on the mainland or Piazzale Roma for a huge expense). It's a nice place to visit, but expensive to live in and lacks places to play sports and that sort of thing. Very limiting for most people.

 

I think you are looking at it from a (mainly) American point of view. Many, many Italians -- especially college-aged ones -- don't have cars. Not just in Venice, but anywhere in the country.

 

Also, most Italian young people don't go "away" to university; they go close to home and they often live at home. In fact, many of them are still living at home with their parents into their 30s!

[rebeccalouiseagain]

What I was getting at- is young people are leaving Venice because the lifestyle is expensive and there are more conveniences on the mainland- like roads and cars. Most of the people who work in Venice- live in Mestre. I wasn't meaning that they were only leaving for four years- I meant permanently. College students are thinking with an eye for jobs and making purchases like cars. I know that most college kids don't have cars but they won't always be college kids and have dreams like anyone. I have spent a lot of time with Italians. My friend lived in Venice for over 20 years. He was from Jordan, attended architectural college in Venice, then worked as a waiter- never working in his chosen field. He has returned to Jordan now. My son's best friend Eduardo from Torino, moved here to the US for college and had no desire to return to Italy because of the lack of jobs. So I'm not just saying this to be a know-it-all.

 

In fact, the situation in Italy is more bleak than just finding work and a life outside of Venice. There is a really high unemployment rate in Italy for young adults and many are leaving the country entirely.

 

http://www.iop.harvard.edu/blog/lean-moments-exploring-global-education-reform-venice-italy

Edited July 31, 2014 by rebeccalouiseagain

[Pet Nit Noy]

Without the tourism revenue, where's the millions of dollars yearly and the economics to fund these building repairs and maintenance?

 

I'm not aware of any organization working on the restoration of the whole of Venice equivalent to the Rockefeller Foundation's efforts to restore Bruges in the mid-1960s I know there are some organizations, both commercial and non-profit, working on a smaller scale. Obviously, the City of Venice is also undertaking some projects.

 

On the commercial side, renovations to the palazzo adjacent to the Rialto Bridge have been in limbo for a couple of years. Happily, if you're someone who thinks that modifications are preferable to shuttered and crumbling structures and unhappily, if you're a purist who rejects all modifications of existing structures, the project has finally achieved approval. If anyone has been in Venice recently, you ought to have been able to see some signs of work on the palazzo that, until recently, was partially used as a post office.

 

The organization Friends of Venice is a new-comer on the restoration scene; it was founded in 2012. One of its goals is to sponsor a major project every three years. The kick-off project is supposed to focus on the area around St. Marks. Recent cruisers ought to be able to report if they have seen any activity yet.

 

Venice in Peril, a British organization, is one of the older, larger restoration groups. It has been around since the 1960s, a time of particularly devastating flooding in Venice.

 

On the municipal side, the city of Venice has instituted a hotel tax for the sole purpose of funding restoration. The amount of the tax is related to the number of stars in the hotel's rating: five Euros per night at a five-star hotel, etc.

 

I hope the cruise lines will initiate a similar effort for the day each ship is in port. Yes, we already pay docking fees and yes, we spend money to varying degrees when we visit the city. However, I'm unable to find any information as to how much of those fees go directly to preservation. As we all wait for a final resolution on the location of cruise ships, this seems to be a small positive step people could take that would help preservation more directly than buying a meal in a restaurant or riding in a gondola.

 

On a silly note, I'm reminded of the scene in the 1978 movie "Heaven Can Wait" where Warren Beatty, inhabiting the body of a cut-throat corporation owner, chairs a board meeting. For those who haven't seen the movie or can't remember it, Beatty's character announces that considering all the protests of his company, he investigated the criticisms, and the protesters have legitimate complaints. He talks about how to respond to the criticism and uses the example of charging more for cans of tuna, but taking the opportunity to position his company as the "good guy company who is a friend to tuna fish." Don't you imagine that some cruise lines might find it beneficial to position themselves as a "friend to Venice"? Even being willing to handle the collection on a voluntary basis ought to offer an opportunity for some good will publicity.

[Pet Nit Noy]

Contrary to statements on this thread, the cruise ships are not sailing on the historic Grand Canal.

 

FWIW, the inaugural year that Grand Princess sailed (1998) she docked alongside the quay at Arsenale which is certainly at the beginning of the Grand Canal. My husband and I were in Venice at the time on a land trip and sight of the Grand Princess docked there seemed so very, very wrong.

 

I've never again seen cruise ships docked at Arsenale.

[whystayhome]

FWIW, the inaugural year that Grand Princess sailed (1998) she docked alongside the quay at Arsenale which is certainly at the beginning of the Grand Canal. My husband and I were in Venice at the time on a land trip and sight of the Grand Princess docked there seemed so very, very wrong.

 

I've never again seen cruise ships docked at Arsenale.

 

The first time we docked in Venice was at San Basilio and we had 2 overnights because we were doing a b2b. It was wonderfully convenient and we were able to cram so much into our time there. The sail in and sail out were simply gorgeous.

 

Last month, we had to dock quite a distance from Venice because there was some religious festival going on in the canal. The cruise line bused us into piazzale Roma, which was a 30-45 minute run each way. It was a short turn around day and quite a few people didn't even bother to go into the city. We went in, but it was rather stressful - bus-people mover-vaporetto - with not much time to see anything and anxiety about getting back to the shuttle bus in time. My original plan for the day had been to visit the lagoon islands, but there was simply not enough time.

 

Still, we got to visit Venice again, albeit briefly.

 

I think if this is the way of the future, the cruise lines will have to allow for longer port stays in Venice so people will have an opportunity to enjoy the city and not spend nearly as much time on getting to the highlights as they will have to enjoy them.