Saint John, NB--timing for reversing rapids

[3rdGenCunarder]

I've searched this board and read posts and looked other places online. And I'm soooo confused, because I see conflicting information about the timing of the reversal.

 

We'll be in Saint John Aug 31. According to tide tables, low is 7:26 AM and high is 1:35 PM.

 

I understand how the reversal works, it's the timing that I can't figure out. At low tide, the river flows out, pretty much like any river. As the tide comes in, it pushes back until the water appears calm and then it pushes enough to overcome the downstream flow and flow upstream. It's the change from calm to flowing "backwards" that we want to watch.

 

The table said slack is 11:16 to 11:36. So if we get there a bit before 11:30, we should see the change, yes? Various tourist descriptions I've found on the web say the change starts earlier than 4 hours after low tide.

 

Our plan is to go to the market, collect a picnic lunch, then get a taxi to the park and have lunch while we watch the water. Then a taxi back to the ship. How difficult will it be to get a taxi? I'm concerned because the ship sails at 2:00. Are there pay phones anywhere near there to call if my cell doesn't get a signal (it gets cranky in some non-US places).

 

Thanks!

[Fouremco]

You have it right. Time it to be there before the end of slack tide.

 

This Government of New Brunswick webpage has a good description:

http://www.tourismnewbrunswick.ca/Products/R/Reversing-Rapids.aspx

 

I can't remember if there are any pay phones, but there is a restaurant and a visitors' information office, so I'm sure one or the other will allow you to call a cab if your cell doesn't work.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Fouremco

[LiftLockCouple]

You have it right. Time it to be there before the end of slack tide.

 

This Government of New Brunswick webpage has a good description:

http://www.tourismnewbrunswick.ca/Products/R/Reversing-Rapids.aspx

 

I can't remember if there are any pay phones, but there is a restaurant and a visitors' information office, so I'm sure one or the other will allow you to call a cab if your cell doesn't work.

 

Unfortunately, when I was in SJ in June, the Restaurant and visitor center were closed. I assume the visitor center has moved.

[Fouremco]

Unfortunately, when I was in SJ in June, the Restaurant and visitor center were closed. I assume the visitor center has moved.

After seeing your post I did a quick search and found that the city was planning to demolish the building, but there was a big outcry from the citizens. A local businessman has made a pitch to reopen the restaurant this summer and has the support of some aldermen, but I couldn't find any reporting on the final outcome.

 

Meantime, the Visitor Centre has moved to Market Square.

[3rdGenCunarder]

After seeing your post I did a quick search and found that the city was planning to demolish the building, but there was a big outcry from the citizens. A local businessman has made a pitch to reopen the restaurant this summer and has the support of some aldermen, but I couldn't find any reporting on the final outcome.

 

Meantime, the Visitor Centre has moved to Market Square.

 

Thanks for the info. Market Square does make sense, as there's more to Saint John than the rapids.

 

Does anyone have a favorite spot for viewing the reversal?

[Fouremco]

Fallsview Avenue probably offers the best broad perspective. Go to google maps and cut and paste these coordinates: 45.264385, -66.087757

 

Better would be in the area of the former restaurant, closer to the narrow gorge, or on the bridge that crosses the gorge. This general area: 45.258054, -66.088271 There's also a place here that you could probably phone from.

 

Best of all, if not too crowded, is on the other side of the bridge: 45.259740, -66.085800

[LiftLockCouple]

This video was taken 4 years ago from an observation platform on the west side of the river ( and of course bridge ). I have not been there lately so cannot confirm it is still open. I have added some pictures of the location. As you can see the water is flowing upriver into the mouth of the Saint John River. In 1765, members of my family ( from Massachusetts ) sailed past this exact location on their way to the lands they settled well upriver at Maugerville near present day Fredericton.

 

Enjoy your day in saint John.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlEcqNh3RBY

 

This view is towards the city. The river is to the left, straight ahead is the Saint John Harbour. The cruise pier is just out of sight past the harbour cranes in the distance.

 

 

This is the Restaurant building we are speaking of as seen from the observation platform

 

 

If your mobility allows, these are the stairs you must negotiate to get to the observation platform

 

 

http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Restaurant_Review-g154960-d5086916-Reviews-Reversing_Falls_Split_Rock_Cafe-Saint_John_New_Brunswick.html

 

This is an alternative with refreshments at the top of the stairs.

 

Edited August 23, 2015 by LiftLockCouple

[Paraveina]

 

I understand how the reversal works, it's the timing that I can't figure out. At low tide, the river flows out, pretty much like any river. As the tide comes in, it pushes back until the water appears calm and then it pushes enough to overcome the downstream flow and flow upstream. It's the change from calm to flowing "backwards" that we want to watch.

 

The table said slack is 11:16 to 11:36. So if we get there a bit before 11:30, we should see the change, yes? Various tourist descriptions I've found on the web say the change starts earlier than 4 hours after low tide.

 

 

Thanks!

 

OK so basically, at low tide the river is fully flowing out to the bay. As time goes on, the bay water level starts rising and forcing the river to slow down. During this time, there's a fight between the water going out from the river and the water coming in from the bay, and in addition to that there's a bunch of rocks under the water's surface to help create turbulence. Then, slack tide happens when they're matched, there aren't any whirlpools and it's safe for boats to go through. After that, the water level continues to rise and actually forces the river to run backwards. I'm almost positive there are some whirlpools then as well, but just not as many because the water level is higher over the rocks. So it really depends on which part of the reversing you want to see - the whirlpools or the river running backwards.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Well, we did it, and I'm glad we did. So thank you to those who provided such helpful information!

 

We took a city bus out to the overlook park. Very easy, right on time. Only two other people on the bus, and when one of them heard we're from the NYC metro area, he started talking about old NY TV people (Mr G the weatherman!) and the ride went quickly as we chatted.

 

We got there at the end of the outgoing water, just as the water was going "slack." Then we watched as the surface began to change, and there were little upwellings. Then there were eddies, and then whirlpools. We started at the park on the "far" side of the river. We did not walk the stairs down to water level. Based on some videos I'd seen on youtube, I thought it best to be looking down to see the changes start. BTW, the restaurant/visitor center is still closed, but there's a small temporary building serving as a visitor center, and there was a guide there to answer questions and hand out leaflets.

 

Once we saw things get started, we walked across the bridge, stopping a few times to watch and take pictures. After we crossed the bridge, we went to the little observation platform and watched a bit more. We could see cormorants fishing near the narrow point. It was funny to watch them get swept upstream by the current, then fly back down to look for more fish. We also saw a few seals in the wider (normally downstream) part of the river.

 

Because of our early sailing (2 PM) we couldn't stay all the way to high tide at 1:30. We couldn't find the bus stop to go back, so we walked it. The first part of the walk is uninspiring, but then we reached the Harbour Passage, and that was a lovely walk.

 

The reversing rapids aren't "WOW!" dramatic, but if you think about what's going on, it's an impressive lesson in earth science. Definitely worth seeing once, if you can time it right.

[LiftLockCouple]

Great report. Glad you were successful and enjoyed your time at the Falls. I have enjoyed watching the birds fishing as well. Must be like being a kid on a toboggan slope.

[ljwm67]

Well, we did it, and I'm glad we did. So thank you to those who provided such helpful information!

 

We took a city bus out to the overlook park. Very easy, right on time. Only two other people on the bus, and when one of them heard we're from the NYC metro area, he started talking about old NY TV people (Mr G the weatherman!) and the ride went quickly as we chatted.

 

We got there at the end of the outgoing water, just as the water was going "slack." Then we watched as the surface began to change, and there were little upwellings. Then there were eddies, and then whirlpools. We started at the park on the "far" side of the river. We did not walk the stairs down to water level. Based on some videos I'd seen on youtube, I thought it best to be looking down to see the changes start. BTW, the restaurant/visitor center is still closed, but there's a small temporary building serving as a visitor center, and there was a guide there to answer questions and hand out leaflets.

 

Once we saw things get started, we walked across the bridge, stopping a few times to watch and take pictures. After we crossed the bridge, we went to the little observation platform and watched a bit more. We could see cormorants fishing near the narrow point. It was funny to watch them get swept upstream by the current, then fly back down to look for more fish. We also saw a few seals in the wider (normally downstream) part of the river.

 

Because of our early sailing (2 PM) we couldn't stay all the way to high tide at 1:30. We couldn't find the bus stop to go back, so we walked it. The first part of the walk is uninspiring, but then we reached the Harbour Passage, and that was a lovely walk.

 

The reversing rapids aren't "WOW!" dramatic, but if you think about what's going on, it's an impressive lesson in earth science. Definitely worth seeing once, if you can time it right.

 

Do you remember the bus number you took? Did you get the bus where the ship docked or at the market?

 

We saw the rapids years ago while on a ship tour and would just like to go back on our own this time.

[Paraveina]

Do you remember the bus number you took? Did you get the bus where the ship docked or at the market?

 

We saw the rapids years ago while on a ship tour and would just like to go back on our own this time.

 

Here's the list of routes and schedules:

http://www.saintjohn.ca/en/home/cityhall/transportation/transit/routesschedules/default.aspx

 

Routes 1 and 7 will get you there, Routes 2 and 8 will bring you back. The adult cash fare is 2.75 per person, per direction.

 

This website shows you where the bus is in real time: http://www.nextbus.com/predictor/stopSelector.jsp?a=stjohn

The stop you where you would board is "City Hall" and the stop where you would get off is "Bridge & Mill Road". There's a Google Maps link on the right side of the page that will show you the route with stops marked. Also, there's construction on that bridge (Reversing Falls), so expect delays until November 2015.

 

If your ship docks at the Diamond Jubilee, you'll be along Water Street approximately at where St. James Street would intersect, if it continued down all the way. If instead you dock at the Marco Polo, you'll be along Water Street between Duke Street and Queen Street, if Queen also went all the way down. If you're here on a three ship day or when the QM2 is in, you might end up at Long Wharf, which is in the northernmost part of the harbour and I'm having trouble figuring out how to tell you where it is. It's to the left of the Hilton, across some water.

 

That being said, I think a taxi would run you about 10$ each way. Taxis here are based on zones so delays don't run the price up. Extra passengers are 1$ a head. And the stop at Bridge & Mill Road is going to deposit you on the opposite side of the road you likely want to be on, so you'll have to cross four lanes of traffic. With the bridge repairs ongoing, it's actually quite easy to do now as there's a traffic light that only permits traffic in one direction at a time. At a normal time with no construction, very few will stop to let you cross as there is no crosswalk (it's not an area where you would expect much pedestrian traffic) and the only people I've seen do it jog across if they're lucky to find a gap in traffic.