Ncl Butler Tipping

[cruiseny4life]

24 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

They sign contracts because the income WITH TIPS is far better than they can make at home. 
 

Those tips are a major consideration in signing those contracts.  That and desperation. 
 

And if you think you working at a summer camp decades ago is really the least bit comparable… 

I'm glad you took the time to answer my questions. Thank you, I appreciate such clarity. 

 

You conveniently forgot about this part of my post:

 

3 hours ago, cruiseny4life said:

(who work a much harder job than I ever did at camp)

 

[pcakes122]

24 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

Correct… they are making far more than they could at home. They are still making peanuts while working their butts off, so that guests can spend their purely discretionary income on a vacation.  
 

It’s really something to think, “why should I tip you?!? You’re already earning 1/10 of a McDonalds cashier which is far better than most people in your country!”

 

I don't think you understand how exchange rates work. Let's pretend you could go to XYZ country and make 10 times your yearly salary in 9 months. You don't live in the other country and you don't spend ANY money there at their inflation rate. When you spend the money that you make (or send it home to your family) you're going to be spending it in the US at our prices, so you are actually considered RICH in the US and can comfortably buy anything you want, own multiple houses, support extended family, etc.

 

On the other hand, in XYZ country the cost of living is exorbitant and even though you are getting paid 10 times your US salary, it's a very low for XYZ and if you had to live there, you would be seriously poor.

 

The people of XYZ country then look at you like you are a poor indentured servant who is stupid and sad for taking such a low paying, hard-working job far away from home. They feel sorry for you and pity you, even though your children are getting the best education, you own a beautiful home, you can easily support your elderly parents and you travel with your family to exotic places on your time off.

 

THIS is why there are crew members on cruise ships who are actually highly-educated professional engineers, nurses, chiropractors and more (performing jobs such as cabin stewards.) They know their cruise salary is NOT "peanuts" - at least not where they are going to spend the money.

 

Everyone deserves to be tipped for hard work and to show appreciation for great service, so that's not my argument. However, I actually find it offensive when people talk about crew members as if they worthy of pity. Nobody tricked them into working on the ships. They each saw an opportunity and made a conscious decision that obviously works for them (or they wouldn't do it.)

[UKstages]

as a data point i can confirm that a frontline call center worker in manila will earn a monthly salary between $400 and $600. that's at most about $7000 a year. somewhat less in more rural communities, and those are exceptionally good entry level non-management jobs through which somebody could support their family, including their parents, who often get health care subsidized by payroll deductions of their offspring.

 

but anybody trying to suggest that their NCL salary should be considered "peanuts" (presumably by american standards) is playing fast and loose with the facts. you can't create a false equivalence. they are not american workers and don't have american cars or american rents or american tax obligations. no american worker would be happy earning those salaries, but workers from other countries are overjoyed. labor is in fact the largest export of the philippines and the money they send home makes up 12 - 15% of the nation's GDP.

 

by all means, tip large and tip often. they deserve every peso (pronounced "peh-so").

 

but don't cry for me, filipino... the truth is they are thrilled to have those jobs.

 

as are the indians, indonesians, malaysians, chinese and vietnamese.

 

and the jobs pay very well compared to what they would earn in their home countries.

 

 

[havoc315]

14 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

I don't think you understand how exchange rates work. Let's pretend you could go to XYZ country and make 10 times your yearly salary in 9 months. You don't live in the other country and you don't spend ANY money there at their inflation rate. When you spend the money that you make (or send it home to your family) you're going to be spending it in the US at our prices, so you are actually considered RICH in the US and can comfortably buy anything you want, own multiple houses, support extended family, etc.

 

On the other hand, in XYZ country the cost of living is exorbitant and even though you are getting paid 10 times your US salary, it's a very low for XYZ and if you had to live there, you would be seriously poor.

 

The people of XYZ country then look at you like you are a poor indentured servant who is stupid and sad for taking such a low paying, hard-working job far away from home. They feel sorry for you and pity you, even though your children are getting the best education, you own a beautiful home, you can easily support your elderly parents and you travel with your family to exotic places on your time off.

 

THIS is why there are crew members on cruise ships who are actually highly-educated professional engineers, nurses, chiropractors and more (performing jobs such as cabin stewards.) They know their cruise salary is NOT "peanuts" - at least not where they are going to spend the money.

 

Everyone deserves to be tipped for hard work and to show appreciation for great service, so that's not my argument. However, I actually find it offensive when people talk about crew members as if they worthy of pity. Nobody tricked them into working on the ships. They each saw an opportunity and made a conscious decision that obviously works for them (or they wouldn't do it.)

You don’t understand global economics. Yes, their money buys more in their home country. No, it doesn’t buy cruise vacations. It’s a MUCH lower standard of living. 
 

No, they aren’t tricked into working on a cruise ship. They don’t because the entire compensation — including tips — makes it worthwhile.  Just like even in the US, workers will take below minimum-wage jobs as waitstaff knowing that tips are a major part of the compensation. 
 

When someone fails to tip for expected service, they are taking expected income away. 
 

Honestly, I’d be a bit sickened by the idea of anyone who is paying $10,000 for a suite who would say, “why should I tip my butler $100 for doing his job?”

 

 

Edited February 15 by havoc315

[pcakes122]

1 minute ago, havoc315 said:

You don’t understand global economics. Yes, their money buys more in their home country. No, it doesn’t buy cruise vacations. It’s a MUCH lower standard of living. 
 

No, they aren’t tricked into working on a cruise ship. They don’t because the entire compensation — including tips — makes it worthwhile.  Just like even in the US, workers will take below minimum-wage jobs knowing that tips are a major part of the compensation. 
 

When someone fails to tip for expected service, they are taking expected income away. 
 

Honestly, I’d be a bit sickened by the idea of anyone who is paying $10,000 for a suite who would say, “why should I tip my butler $100 for doing his job?”

 

 

First, I don't think there's anyone not tipping their butler. 

 

Second, when it comes to global economics, you need to check out more real life examples than relying on stereotypes. Check out some channels on YouTube of people that travel full-time or retired early overseas. The low cost and high quality of medical care in some countries is amazing.  You assume that people outside of the US have a lower standard of living. That is absolutely NOT the case everywhere. 

[havoc315]

12 hours ago, pcakes122 said:

First, I don't think there's anyone not tipping their butler. 
 

 

Then you haven’t been reading the posts suggesting that tipping should be saved only for extraordinary service. 

 

 

12 hours ago, pcakes122 said:

 

Second, when it comes to global economics, you need to check out more real life examples than relying on stereotypes. Check out some channels on YouTube of people that travel full-time or retired early overseas. The low cost and high quality of medical care in some countries is amazing.  You assume that people outside of the US have a lower standard of living. That is absolutely NOT the case everywhere. 

Im talking about the Philippines, not “everywhere.”  The standard of living is MUCH lower. Middle class in the Philippines means actually having drinking water and electricity. The average Filipino isn’t buying cars, taking cruise vacations, etc. yes, a bowl of rice is cheaper in the Philippines than the US, but they are not living up to our standard of living. They do NOT have our quality of healthcare — life expectancy is much lower in the Philippines.

 

And yes, some Americans do retire to places like that — because such communities are so poor and desperate, that you can live like a king for a few American dollars. 
 

Any insinuation that they are “lucky” to earn a base salary of $5 to $10 per hour on a cruise ship is ridiculously patronizing. 

[pcakes122]

6 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

 

Then you haven’t been reading the posts suggesting that tipping should be saved only for extraordinary service. 

 

 

Im talking about the Philippines, not “everywhere.”  The standard of living is MUCH lower. Middle class in the Philippines means actually having drinking water and electricity. The average Filipino isn’t buying cars, taking cruise vacations, etc. yes, a bowl of rice is cheaper in the Philippines than the US, but they are not living up to our standard of living. They do NOT have our quality of healthcare — life expectancy is much lower in the Philippines.

 

And yes, some Americans do retire to places like that — because such communities are so poor and desperate, that you can live like a king for a few American dollars. 
 

Any insinuation that they are “lucky” to earn a base salary of $5 to $10 per hour on a cruise ship is ridiculously patronizing. 

My response is that we should all take a moment to ensure that we don't have an unconscious bias that is influencing our perspective.

 

Respecting the decisions that others make for their lives should be paramount. Just because someone's first language isn't English doesn't mean they aren't very capable of making informed decisions about where and how to work.

 

We should tip in appreciation for outstanding service no matter who is doing the work. We don't need to tip, however, because we have determined (through our own bias) that people are poor and easily duped and accepted jobs in servitude because they were desperate or didn't know any better.

 

Those are my final comments on this delete. 😊

[havoc315]

29 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

My response is that we should all take a moment to ensure that we don't have an unconscious bias that is influencing our perspective.

 

Respecting the decisions that others make for their lives should be paramount. Just because someone's first language isn't English doesn't mean they aren't very capable of making informed decisions about where and how to work.

 

We should tip in appreciation for outstanding service no matter who is doing the work. We don't need to tip, however, because we have determined (through our own bias) that people are poor and easily duped and accepted jobs in servitude because they were desperate or didn't know any better.

 

Those are my final comments on this delete. 😊

Not because they are “duped.”

Is an American waiter “duped” into taking a waiter job?

We should tip for expected service because that’s the way the compensation works.  Just as you would tip your American waiter 18-25% for their service, even if it is just “average” service — that’s the way the compensation works.  That’s the compensation model.  
 

Edited February 15 by havoc315

[9tee2Sea]

I just got off a Haven suite cruise on the Bliss ( 15 night Panama Canal).  I tipped the butler $100 for two people.   The only thing I used him for was to make sure the mini fridge was stocked with juices

( three pitchers were always full), coffee machine had plenty of coffee, and that he had wake up calls when arriving in port.  I tipped the cabin steward $150.00  IMO, the steward did WAY more work than the butler or even the concierge ( which I also tipped $100)

[graphicguy]

Oooooohhhhh....a tipping thread (again).  These are always fun!