Cuba Question Cienfuegos

[sausner]

If we do a tour in Havana using the person to person option do we need to do an other tour in Cienfuegos or can we just get off the ship?

[Tagsalong]

We went to Cienfuegos on Dec 12 and just got off the ship to walk into town - as did hundreds of others.  We did not get off the ship in Havana since we have been there several times prior.   There is no link between any of the ports and you must get a separate visa for each port.   What you do in Havana will have no bearing on what you want to do in Cienfuegos.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Tagsalong

[Don'tNeedAName]

TL;DR: probably just do what you want, but you may technically be breaking the law.

 

It seems like the question is aimed at understanding the application of the Cuba travel restrictions.  I have always found the intricacies of the travel ban interesting, so I am probably about to waste a bunch of time for anyone who is not weird in that same way.  The general consensus seems to be that it doesn't matter, and you can pretty much do what you want.  I will admit that to my knowledge, no individual has been randomly audited or punished under the restrictions.  Thousands upon thousands of cruise passengers and other travelers from the US have gone to Cuba, walked off the ship, done nothing to satisfy the applicable regulations, and have returned to the US to live their lives without any hint of trouble.

 

However, as I have posted previously on other threads, the laws do exist, and the penalties are theoretically steep.  Note that the enforcement of the restrictions is not within the jurisdiction of Customs/Border Patrol, but rather the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control.  So, unless Treasury starts stationing officers at cruiseports, this is unlikely to be an issue for most travelers.  Don't lie to a border patrol agent though! Although they don't enforce the treasury's rules, it is still a separate crime to lie to them.  Of course, they aren't likely to ask you any questions with respect to your detailed travel agenda anyway.

 

Since you don't explicitly indicate taking a ship excursion, I thought it would at least be worth pointing out the following regarding the people-to-people travel license.  After a November 2017 amendment, the "people-to-people" general license to travel to Cuba under 31 CFR 515.565(b) no longer permits such travel individually. However, people-to-people travel may still qualify for a general license provided that, among other listed requirements, such travel is done "under the auspices of an organization that is a person subject to U.S. jurisdiction and that sponsors such exchanges to promote people-to-people contact."

 

A local tour operator would not satisfy this requirement, as the tour would have to be organized by (i.e., under the auspices of) a company subject to U.S. jurisdiction.  Royal Caribbean's tours appear to qualify, as well as any other company subject to U.S. jurisdiction.  However, other tour providers I have seen are typically aimed at providing the whole trip. That is, I am not sure there are that many that are available to cruise-ship visitors on a day-by-day basis.

 

As noted by Tagsalong, the ports and your activities there are not linked.  The travel restrictions apply throughout the duration of your time in Cuba, and thus doing a tour one day will not satisfy the requirements for the next day (whether in the same location or not).  The travel licenses generally require a "full-time schedule of activities" permitted under the license, although a full-time schedule is not explicitly defined.

 

That's a lot of digital ink to spill for something that is, in all practicality, no different than taking a hardliner stance like: "YES, YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW IF YOU DRIVE 66mph IN A 65mph ZONE."  While it may be technically true, are you likely to be caught?  Much less questioned, and even much much less punished?  Of course, that's no defense in a court of law!

 

I am not providing legal advice, and to the extent you are concerned you may be in danger of breaking one or more federal laws, you should consult an attorney.

 

 

[TravelerThom]

On 2/25/2019 at 8:18 PM, Tagsalong said:

...you must get a separate visa for each port. ....

In August 2017 I used a single visa from the Cuban government for 1 day in Santiago de Cuba, 2 days in Havana and 1 day in Cienfuegos. This was for a non-RCI Cruise. Has Cuba really changed this policy?

[TravelerThom]

There are 12 categories of allowed travel for US citizens to Cuba. 10 of these categories are pretty narrow and not likely to apply to the general traveler. As noted above, in 2017 significant restrictions were placed on the People to People category. However Support to the Cuban People license to travel was essentially unaffected by those restrictions, and can IMO be pretty easily be met by individual travelers. However I am NOT providing legal advice. 

[shipshape sam]

On 2/25/2019 at 8:18 PM, Tagsalong said:

We went to Cienfuegos on Dec 12 and just got off the ship to walk into town - as did hundreds of others.  We did not get off the ship in Havana since we have been there several times prior.   There is no link between any of the ports and you must get a separate visa for each port.   What you do in Havana will have no bearing on what you want to do in Cienfuegos.

Good to know.  Thanks!

[shipshape sam]

8 hours ago, Don'tNeedAName said:

TL;DR: probably just do what you want, but you may technically be breaking the law.

 

It seems like the question is aimed at understanding the application of the Cuba travel restrictions.  I have always found the intricacies of the travel ban interesting, so I am probably about to waste a bunch of time for anyone who is not weird in that same way.  The general consensus seems to be that it doesn't matter, and you can pretty much do what you want.  I will admit that to my knowledge, no individual has been randomly audited or punished under the restrictions.  Thousands upon thousands of cruise passengers and other travelers from the US have gone to Cuba, walked off the ship, done nothing to satisfy the applicable regulations, and have returned to the US to live their lives without any hint of trouble.

 

However, as I have posted previously on other threads, the laws do exist, and the penalties are theoretically steep.  Note that the enforcement of the restrictions is not within the jurisdiction of Customs/Border Patrol, but rather the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control.  So, unless Treasury starts stationing officers at cruiseports, this is unlikely to be an issue for most travelers.  Don't lie to a border patrol agent though! Although they don't enforce the treasury's rules, it is still a separate crime to lie to them.  Of course, they aren't likely to ask you any questions with respect to your detailed travel agenda anyway.

 

Since you don't explicitly indicate taking a ship excursion, I thought it would at least be worth pointing out the following regarding the people-to-people travel license.  After a November 2017 amendment, the "people-to-people" general license to travel to Cuba under 31 CFR 515.565(b) no longer permits such travel individually. However, people-to-people travel may still qualify for a general license provided that, among other listed requirements, such travel is done "under the auspices of an organization that is a person subject to U.S. jurisdiction and that sponsors such exchanges to promote people-to-people contact."

 

A local tour operator would not satisfy this requirement, as the tour would have to be organized by (i.e., under the auspices of) a company subject to U.S. jurisdiction.  Royal Caribbean's tours appear to qualify, as well as any other company subject to U.S. jurisdiction.  However, other tour providers I have seen are typically aimed at providing the whole trip. That is, I am not sure there are that many that are available to cruise-ship visitors on a day-by-day basis.

 

As noted by Tagsalong, the ports and your activities there are not linked.  The travel restrictions apply throughout the duration of your time in Cuba, and thus doing a tour one day will not satisfy the requirements for the next day (whether in the same location or not).  The travel licenses generally require a "full-time schedule of activities" permitted under the license, although a full-time schedule is not explicitly defined.

 

That's a lot of digital ink to spill for something that is, in all practicality, no different than taking a hardliner stance like: "YES, YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW IF YOU DRIVE 66mph IN A 65mph ZONE."  While it may be technically true, are you likely to be caught?  Much less questioned, and even much much less punished?  Of course, that's no defense in a court of law!

 

I am not providing legal advice, and to the extent you are concerned you may be in danger of breaking one or more federal laws, you should consult an attorney.

 

 

I am not providing legal advice, and to the extent you are concerned you may be in danger of breaking one or more federal laws, you should consult an attorney.

 

And have a drink.