Princess cruising from NYC---need logistical advice

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, MarkBearSF said:

Most everyone would prefer to dock in Manhattan vs Red Hook. 

I believe the factor is the length of the ship. if she sticks out too far into the Hudson she becomes a hazard. So the QM2 docks there, but her smaller sisters Vickie and Liz will usually dock in Manhattan. The larger ships in the Princess fleet require Red Hook. Conceivably, there could be a situation where a Manhattan berth is unavailable pushing the ship to Brooklyn, but rare. And likewise, a larger ship can be granted an exemption to dock in Manhattan (I think it happened once with the QM2). 

I believe that they're expanding the facilities in Red Hook to handle two simultaneous ships in port, but it was likely delayed with the COVID freeze and I don't know its current status. By the way, I also believe that Carnival financed much of the port to accommodate the QM2. 

So, yes, RC and Celebrity ships dock in their pier at Cape Liberty, the NCL ships, although big, are short enough to dock in Manhattan, and do. And Carnival-related ships dock in either Manhattan (if they can) or Red Hook (if they're too big for Manhattan)

As I've already explained the very large Princess ships are smaller than the QM 2 which has docked in Manhattan from time to time in the past, and not just once because before Brooklyn opened they had no other place to dock. The QM 2 was launched three years before the Brooklyn terminal opened.

 

Again, the vey big NCL ships Breakaway and Escape have docked in Manhattan week after week for years. 

 

Sky Princess is a few feet shorter than Pier 88 in Manhattan as are Breakaway and Escape, so there is nothing about the length or any other size measurement  of Princess ships that prevent their docking in Manhattan. I'm not even sure that the largest Princess ships have even sailed from NY, but that's irrelevant because they can dock from a size perspective.

 

The primary reason that QM 2 and Princess homeport in Brooklyn is because NCL has first call on Manhattan berth space since they run two ships year round out of NY...the only cruise line to run year round from NY. Brooklyn was built to accommodate Carnival Corp. Cunard and Princess ships that wouldn't have regular space to dock Manhattan.

 

Based on what I've read Carnival Corp. did not pay directly for the construction of the Brooklyn terminal. They signed a long term lease on the facility, as did NCL for the Manhattan facility. That lease for Brooklyn provided the justification for the city to invest in the construction of the Brooklyn terminal and the NCL lease for renovation of Manhattan. https://www.marinelink.com/news/agreement-announced317012

 

 

[GTJ]

3 hours ago, njhorseman said:

When NY is a port of call almost everyone berths in Manhattan for obvious reasons, with a few in Brooklyn.

 

That is what is curious about Cunard Line having the QM2 in Brooklyn. Being the only true oceanliner left, and the preeminent line for transporting passengers to and from America, it would seem fitting for it to call at Manhattan rather than Brooklyn. True, the vessel does not have the same regularity as NCL, and so maybe there are scheduling difficulties in trying to shoehorn in the QM2 at Manhattan for all her crossings . . . but the QM2 is the showpiece above all the other vessels calling at New York. (I say this notwithstanding the prejudices I have that generally favor Brooklyn over Manhattan.)

[navybankerteacher]

11 minutes ago, GTJ said:

 

That is what is curious about Cunard Line having the QM2 in Brooklyn. Being the only true oceanliner left, and the preeminent line for transporting passengers to and from America, it would seem fitting for it to call at Manhattan rather than Brooklyn. True, the vessel does not have the same regularity as NCL, and so maybe there are scheduling difficulties in trying to shoehorn in the QM2 at Manhattan for all her crossings . . . but the QM2 is the showpiece above all the other vessels calling at New York. (I say this notwithstanding the prejudices I have that generally favor Brooklyn over Manhattan.)

Money talks louder than aesthetics.  NCL and Carnival are the regular users of NY pier space - many times more port calls than Cunard and Princess.  HAL usually stops in Manhattan - but just very rarely, so they seem able to be accommodated.   Yes, QM2 represents the tradition - as does sailing down the Hudson being far and away the best way to depart NY — but when you get down to it very little of the traditional charm of passenger ships remain, so why not Hoboken and Brooklyn?

Edited August 9, 2021 by navybankerteacher

[njhorseman]

10 minutes ago, GTJ said:

 

That is what is curious about Cunard Line having the QM2 in Brooklyn. Being the only true oceanliner left, and the preeminent line for transporting passengers to and from America, it would seem fitting for it to call at Manhattan rather than Brooklyn. True, the vessel does not have the same regularity as NCL, and so maybe there are scheduling difficulties in trying to shoehorn in the QM2 at Manhattan for all her crossings . . . but the QM2 is the showpiece above all the other vessels calling at New York. (I say this notwithstanding the prejudices I have that generally favor Brooklyn over Manhattan.)

Although the QM2 has berthed in Manhattan in the past I think it's possible that because of the ship's length the harbour master or Coast Guard would prefer that it doesn't if at all possible.  There is also the issue you mentioned of being able to shoehorn it in to the Manhattan schedule. Since the Brooklyn terminal is just a stone's throw from lower Manhattan, docking there is not as problematic or unattractive as docking in Bayonne at Cape Liberty.

[GTJ]

15 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

NCL and Carnival are the regular users of NY pier space - many times more port calls than Cunard and Princess. HAL usually stops in Manhattan - but just very rarely, so they seem able to be accommodated.

 

But don't forget: Carnival Cruise Line, Cunard Line, Princess Cruises, Holland America Line, and a few others are all the same: corporate subsidiaries of Carnival Corporation & plc. True, the several brands have separate legal identity, but collectively they have exceedingly strong bargaining power, and constitute 50 percent of the worldwide cruise line industry.