ATTN: Oceania crew members

[chineplate]

47 minutes ago, Harters said:

On the other hand, if it did go into a tip pool then staff, who have not received cash tips from the likes of me, would also benefit. So, your generosity would be touching more people than you realised. 

Whether they are worthy of it or not.

Edited December 3, 2023 by chineplate

[no fuss travel]

When on the ATW we had excellent service from the. laundry room.  It was suggested to us that we bought treats for those who work in the laundry room as a special thank you.  We asked crew members what treats would be appreciated and at a port went to a grocery store and bought.  I know that the staff received the goodies because the housekeeping manager brought them up to reception so that I could give them the gift.  Any cash tips we gave to other staff which we saw on a regular basis was kept by them as gratuities for the whole crew were paid into the pot.  Quite often if you have unrefundable cash in your shipboard account, you can ask that it be given to the benevolent fund where it will benefit any crew member in need.

[Pandazoo]

@chineplate If you remove the automatic gratitudes the people who work hard behind the scenes are affected.  Even in the terrace or many restaurant servers you may see do not get tips like the room Stewart’s or butlers may.  There is a ship full of people behind the scenes.  I personally consider gratuities part of my trip expenses and alllow for them.  In a perfect world these people would get salaries where these gratuities would not be depended upon.  

[PhD-iva]

3 minutes ago, Pandazoo said:

  In a perfect world these people would get salaries where these gratuities would not be depended upon.  

I have read on the Internet (therefore, it must be true) that payroll salaries are taxed by the employee’s home country, and that cash tips are not taxed as income. If this is true, then by structuring tips as cash, the employee will not have to pay income taxes to their home country on those cash tips received.

Fact, myth or legend - wakarimasen (am studying Japanese again).

[Harters]

2 hours ago, Harry Lake said:

Wish us luck.

I so, I do.

 

John

[Torquer]

I have no specific information on how O handles this.  But as a comparison point, I do know how it works on our other favorite cruise line, Holland America.  Here is the text that someone posted a few years ago directly from their HAL employee handbook:

 

Tipping not required policy

All ships have the Rewards for Excellence (RfE) Plan which consists of Hotel Service Charges and Beverage Service Charges.  If a guest chooses to adjust out of the RfE Plan and instead provide cash tips to an employee, the employee is required to turn in this cash to their Department Head so the money can be added to the RfE plan.  Any "tips" received above and beyond the guests standard amount may be kept by the crewmember.

 

This comes from post #50 on this thread on the HAL board:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2597164-tipping/?do=findComment&comment=56025003

[Harters]

2 hours ago, PhD-iva said:

cash tips are not taxed as income

Wouldnt that depend on their particular country? And, of course, it would depend on them declaring the income. 

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, PhD-iva said:

I have read on the Internet (therefore, it must be true) that payroll salaries are taxed by the employee’s home country, and that cash tips are not taxed as income. If this is true, then by structuring tips as cash, the employee will not have to pay income taxes to their home country on those cash tips received.

Fact, myth or legend - wakarimasen (am studying Japanese again).

In the Philippines and Indonesia, any payment from the employer, whether characterized as "wages", "salary" or "gratuities" is taxable income.  The only "gratuities" or "tips" that are not taxable are ones that come directly from the customer.

[pinotlover]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

In the Philippines and Indonesia, any payment from the employer, whether characterized as "wages", "salary" or "gratuities" is taxable income.  The only "gratuities" or "tips" that are not taxable are ones that come directly from the customer.

Let’s not over think this. Remember Oceania is not the employer. All these staff members work for an employment agency in their home country, on contract with Oceania. They are contracted workers. Oceania is likewise the customer as well as the passengers.

[DeanoNorthPerth]

9 hours ago, chineplate said:

Ha tipping, that old chestnut. Easy solution.

1. Remove all automatic gratuities from on board account.

2. Cash tip individuals who give service above the expected norm.

My guess is with your policy, the guy who works in the bowels of the ship keeping the engine going so you can enjoy your cruise would never see a cent of any money tipped. Hardly seems fair.

[Vallesan]

10 hours ago, Pandazoo said:

@chineplate If you remove the automatic gratitudes the people who work hard behind the scenes are affected.  Even in the terrace or many restaurant servers you may see do not get tips like the room Stewart’s or butlers may.  There is a ship full of people behind the scenes.  I personally consider gratuities part of my trip expenses and alllow for them.  In a perfect world these people would get salaries where these gratuities would not be depended upon.  

I agree with you. It seems that Japan is the only country where wages are high enough and a ‘tip’ is seen as an insult.

[Snaefell3]

3 hours ago, DeanoNorthPerth said:

My guess is with your policy, the guy who works in the bowels of the ship keeping the engine going so you can enjoy your cruise would never see a cent of any money tipped. Hardly seems fair.

Yup, but IMNSHO quite fair.

 

That guy provides no personal service to any guest for a tip to incentivize.  His compensation should come from the fares paid, and we should stop playing the game advertising lower-than-actual "fares" by calling part of the actual fare "gratuities".

 

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, pinotlover said:

Let’s not over think this. Remember Oceania is not the employer. All these staff members work for an employment agency in their home country, on contract with Oceania. They are contracted workers. Oceania is likewise the customer as well as the passengers.

Since I avoid tipping threads like the plague, I'll end my contributions with this.  Oceania's crew are no more "contracted" employees than the hundreds of thousands of other merchant mariners working today.  The employment agency is no more the employer than the union was when I was sailing.  I had to be a member of the union (as the international crew choose to be represented by the employment agency) in order to obtain a job, but I was an employee of the company while on the ship.  The "contract" that is the convenient term used by the international crew refers to the "articles of agreement" that all mariners sign when joining a ship.  These "articles", as they are known to professional mariners, is a personal contract of employment between the mariner and the Captain, acting as the shipping line's legal representative.  I've spent 46 years in the industry, including on foreign flag cruise ships.

[chineplate]

6 hours ago, DeanoNorthPerth said:

My guess is with your policy, the guy who works in the bowels of the ship keeping the engine going so you can enjoy your cruise would never see a cent of any money tipped. Hardly seems fair.

Your guess is correct. Tipping incentives and rewards good service, it shouldn’t be the expected norm.

[pinotlover]

3 hours ago, chineplate said:

Your guess is correct. Tipping incentives and rewards good service, it shouldn’t be the expected norm.

If what qualifies as good to very good food is subjective, then what qualifies as good service is even more so.

 

Since we have posters here that declare every Oceania meal as being excellent; Oceania Specialty restaurants being Michelin star level; and O’s restaurants being better than any land restaurants in their area ( I’ve often wondered where they live!) ; then differences in opinion on what constitutes good to great service ( and therefore tip worthy) is also likely to vary.

 

Do whatever you feel like, and I’ll do likewise.🥂

[Harters]

36 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

O’s restaurants being better than any land restaurants in their area ( I’ve often wondered where they live!)

I've been to areas of my own very small country where you could certainly make that case. And I've been to areas of your country where I would also make the case. 

 

But, yes , good food and service are very subjective matters. And the latter can also be subject to national differences in restaurant culture. Aspects that are praised (or criticised) by Americans may well be reversed by Europeans. I look at like this - Oceania is essentially an American company, catering to an overwhelming proportion of American customers. It would be very silly of me to bring my European restaurant experience as a comparison with service onboard.  

[MEFIowa]

10 minutes ago, Harters said:

... Aspects that are praised (or criticised) by Americans may well be reversed by Europeans. I look at like this - Oceania is essentially an American company, catering to an overwhelming proportion of American customers. It would be very silly of me to bring my European restaurant experience as a comparison with service onboard.  

You might amend that to "North Americans", since often Canadians are the 2nd largest group by nationality. They were on both segments of our recent Riviera B2B 10/30-11/19/23. The Canadians even get their own version of the newspaper, the actual news, not the Currents!

[pinotlover]

9 minutes ago, Harters said:

I've been to areas of my own very small country where you could certainly make that case. And I've been to areas of your country where I would also make the case. 

 

But, yes , good food and service are very subjective matters. And the latter can also be subject to national differences in restaurant culture. Aspects that are praised (or criticised) by Americans may well be reversed by Europeans. I look at like this - Oceania is essentially an American company, catering to an overwhelming proportion of American customers. It would be very silly of me to bring my European restaurant experience as a comparison with service onboard.  

I agree with your comments.

 

Concerning service, as that is the issue at hand. We enjoy the leisurely paced meals served aboard. For us, even as Americans, 1.5-4 hour meals is nothing unusual with friends. I realize this is unusual in American culture and even abhorrent to some. Anything over 45 minutes for them is drudgery and indicative of poor service. I meanwhile find the Flip that Table routine in many American restaurants as abusive. Service expectations are highly subjective.

[Harters]

33 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

You might amend that to "North Americans", since often Canadians are the 2nd largest group by nationality.

On our recent cruise, I learned that O's customer base (in order of number) is from America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK. It rather surprised me that 5 million Kiwis provide more customers than nearly 70 million Britons. 

[MEFIowa]

1 minute ago, Harters said:

.... It rather surprised me that 5 million Kiwis provide more customers than nearly 70 million Britons. 

Was reading the British newspapers in the Concierge Lounge daily while on Riviera last month. I was fascinated by the number of cruise line ads in them. They seem to shout "discount" and some of the fares being pushed on the various lines were quite amazing. Told my wife for one deal, "Hell I'd book this cruise ASAP if I could!" Made me wonder if the Brits are more into heavily discounted fares. Growing up (I'm now 60) it seemed like the Brits used to love to holiday in Spain and Portugal. Then later Greece.

[Harters]

34 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

They seem to shout "discount"

I think it depends on which  cruise line. We used a well known online cruise specialist TA for our recent cruise on Nautica. No discount but just easier to deal with than with O direct. Almost every week they send a brochure of their deals. There's never an O cruise but plenty for what I would regard as British lines - P & O, Fred Olson, Saga, etc.

 

I presume that means  that with Britons only being a small proportion of O's customer base, there isnt the financial support to allow discounting to any great degree. Think how few Britons post to this sub-forum, then check out the nationalities of those posting on the P & O one. 

 

In 2022, our most popular holiday destinations, in order, were Spain, France, Italy, Greece, Portugal, USA. Spain is  way out in front  - twice as many visitors as second place France. I'm not surprised by that  - we holiday in Spain at least once a year (usually a winter sun break for two or three weeks). This year it will be twice (or possibly three times if the two nights in Barcelona before the cruise count as one).  

Edited December 4, 2023 by Harters

[pinotlover]

4 minutes ago, Harters said:

I think it depends on which  cruise line. We used a well known online cruise specialist TA for our recent cruise on Nautica. No discount but just easier to deal with than with O direct. Almost every week they send a brochure of their deals. There's never an O cruise but plenty for what I would regard as British lines - P & O, Fred Olson, etc. I presume that means  that with Britons only being a small proportion of O's customer base, there isnt the financial support to allow discounting to any great degree. 

 

In 2022, our most popular holiday destinations, in order, were Spain, France, 

Ditto for us! Spain, Portugal, and France. All land based. No cruise ship required.

[MEFIowa]

5 minutes ago, Harters said:

I think it depends on which cruise line. We used a well known online cruise specialist TA for our recent cruise on Nautica. No discount but just easier to deal with than with O direct. Almost every week they send a brochure of their deals. There's never an O cruise but plenty for what I would regard as British lines - P & O, Fred Olson, etc. I presume that means  that with Britons only being a small proportion of O's customer base, there isnt the financial support to allow discounting to any great degree....

Reading the British newspapers on Riviera in the Concierge Lounge (the Daily Telegraph and one other, but can't remember if it was the Sun or something else), I was surprised at the level of fare detail in the ads. They were listing, for example, all of December's fares by date. Details on air fare, flights, insurance and more. One company had an entire page in great detail. Don't see this level of detail in ads in the US newspapers (e.g., O advertises heavily in the WSJ, but they stick to generalities). I was bummed looking at one fare! I really wanted to go. Thinking it was a Caribbean cruise ending right before Christmas, from around 12/10-20 ish.

[Vallesan]

8 minutes ago, Harters said:

I think it depends on which  cruise line. We used a well known online cruise specialist TA for our recent cruise on Nautica. No discount but just easier to deal with than with O direct. Almost every week they send a brochure of their deals. There's never an O cruise but plenty for what I would regard as British lines - P & O, Fred Olson, etc. I presume that means  that with Britons only being a small proportion of O's customer base, there isnt the financial support to allow discounting to any great degree. 

 

In 2022, our most popular holiday destinations, in order, were Spain, France, 

These days I think lots of people are happier to sail without flying so maybe that’s why P&O, Fred Olsen etc are more popular in the UK?

[Snaefell3]

11 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

Reading the British newspapers on Riviera in the Concierge Lounge (the Daily Telegraph and one other, but can't remember if it was the Sun or something else), I was surprised at the level of fare detail in the ads. They were listing, for example, all of December's fares by date. Details on air fare, flights, insurance and more. One company had an entire page in great detail. Don't see this level of detail in ads in the US newspapers (e.g., O advertises heavily in the WSJ, but they stick to generalities). I was bummed looking at one fare! I really wanted to go. Thinking it was a Caribbean cruise ending right before Christmas, from around 12/10-20 ish.

The "holiday" industry in the UK is *much* more regulated than in the US.  (That's good and bad.)