Wow Queen Anne

[Froxfield]

Much mention of "traditions" by the cruise line is surely just a bit of marketing hyperbole!! After all the current Cunard is just a brand of US Carnival Corporation, which itself has little connection to Liverpool. Cunard itself was well on the way to its (second?) financial failure when it was rescued by Carnival.  We wouldn't have QM2 if it wasn't for the singular dream of Carnival's owner, Mickey Arison. We should be grateful to him but I wonder if future Carnival supremos will be as sympathetic to the liner concept.

 

It just so happens, I like the Cunard product and look forward to its evolution through QA, wherever it may sail from.  I also like Liverpool and am happy they have cause to celebrate.

[david63]

1 minute ago, Froxfield said:

I wonder if future Carnival supremos will be as sympathetic to the liner concept.

They will just as long as that is what enough American passengers want, but with the changing passenger demographic, possibly by design, then at some point it will be considered less viable.

[ace2542]

2 minutes ago, david63 said:

If I am not mistaken wasn't part of the problem with doing turnaround in Liverpool a large amount of EU money and the conditions that came with it in relation to Southampton?

I think you misunderstand me. The first port of call for thes sailing was liverpool then Iceland then Halifax then New York. It didn't home port from Liverpool. Me and my dad never went one it and he would have to sailed out of Liverpool on Cunard. They haven't bought that trip back since Covid

[exlondoner]

58 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Cunard will never homeport for one reason. Most of the flights for the U.S are from heathrow and half the passengers are american. Even though each Transatlantic from Liverpool might save half a day of fuel

And now a lot of TAs actually begin in Hamburg with a lot of German passengers, which makes Southampton more convenient.

[ace2542]

11 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

And now a lot of TAs actually begin in Hamburg with a lot of German passengers, which makes Southampton more convenient.

T/As from liverpool would save half a day on fuel wouldn't the more or less still 7 nights 6 days but less distance slower speed less fuel use? Which over time - not sure how much time - would amount to a free T/A for cunard in terms of fuel use?

[exlondoner]

2 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

T/As from liverpool would save half a day on fuel wouldn't the more or less still 7 nights 6 days but less distance slower speed less fuel use? Which over time - not sure how much time - would amount to a free T/A for cunard in terms of fuel use?

Sorry, what has that to do with Hamburg?

[ace2542]

6 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Sorry, what has that to do with Hamburg?

We are brits they are germans? Sailing from Liverpool would save them fuel and money in the long run wouldn't it? Why do they sail out of Hamburg? Is there history in Hamburg for Cunard? Sail out would be a lot better given that the atmosphere liverpool can make

 

FWIW it's 45 nautical miles less from Liverpool. I googled it. I thought it would be more because ship goes round cornwall

Edited June 4 by ace2542

[exlondoner]

4 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

We are brits they are germans? Sailing from Liverpool would save them fuel and money in the long run wouldn't it? Why do they sail out of Hamburg? Is there history in Hamburg for Cunard?

I imagine because they get a lot of passengers.

[ace2542]

4 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

I imagine because they get a lot of passengers.

So are those sailings majority german? Or it is still the majority mix of brits/americans? I have never been on one. And I can't believe it is only 45 miles difference from Liverpool/Southampton.

 

Here is an interesting questions lets assume this new cruise terminal is built. Do we think Liverpool could complete and even beat Southampton on the port charges and taxes and things they have to  pay? Who knows.

[david63]

25 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Here is an interesting questions lets assume this new cruise terminal is built. Do we think Liverpool could complete and even beat Southampton on the port charges and taxes and things they have to  pay? Who knows.

Initially Liverpool would probably charge less in order to gain business but the big problem with any of the Carnival brands home porting in Liverpool is the supply chain which is currently is geared towards Southampton.

[ace2542]

4 minutes ago, david63 said:

Initially Liverpool would probably charge less in order to gain business but the big problem with any of the Carnival brands home porting in Liverpool is the supply chain which is currently is geared towards Southampton.

I disagree with that to a certain extent. Great transport links for supply and a lot of large warehouse supply type firms in the area. Fred Olsen homeport in Liverpool so supplies wouldn't really be an issue would they?

[david63]

36 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Great transport links for supply

I don't know where you live but living just north of Liverpool and having travelled down/up to the Southampton area literally hundreds of times (we had family living in the area) that the transport links in reality are not that great and the cost of moving the amounts of stores would propably outweigh any savings.

 

36 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

a lot of large warehouse supply type firms in the area

But would they have the capacity?

 

36 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Fred Olsen homeport in Liverpool so supplies wouldn't really be an issue would they?

Not for Fred because their supply chain is centred around Liverpool.

 

I would be more than pleased if Carnival home ported in Liverpool but I am resigned to the fact that it is unlikely to happen anytime soon.

Edited June 4 by david63

[exlondoner]

I think the fact that so large a proportion of the potential passengers (as well as Heathrow Airport) live within three hours of Southampton is crucial.

[WantedOnVoyage]

There were reasons Cunard moved their express service from Liverpool to Southampton over a century ago, mainly the need to replace the suddenly vanished German lines post WW1 and serve the Continental ports and Liverpool was hardly in the right geographic location for that. And the British market had changed, too.  But hardly the place here for a discourse in all that.

 

Suffice to say, Canadian Pacific were the last trans-Atlantic line out of the Mersey in 1971. And while Fred Olsen may do well enough with their cruise programme but I doubt Cunard will pay Merseyside anymore attention after yesterday than they have in the past century. Right now, they have more pressing matters including finding enough crew. The recent reviews of QM2 are most concerning indeed in this respect. 

[david63]

18 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

I think the fact that so large a proportion of the potential passengers (as well as Heathrow Airport) live within three hours of Southampton is crucial.

Totally disagree. There are more potential passengers within three hours of Liverpool than there are Southampton and Manchester airport is about half the distance from Liverpool than Heathrow is from Southampton.

[ace2542]

5 minutes ago, david63 said:

Totally disagree. There are more potential passengers within three hours of Liverpool than there are Southampton and Manchester airport is about half the distance from Liverpool than Heathrow is from Southampton.

But for the American passengers they can get pretty much anywhere from Heathrow. Not so much from manchester.

[david63]

11 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

But for the American passengers they can get pretty much anywhere from Heathrow. Not so much from manchester.

There are not many places that I cannot get to from Manchester.

[ace2542]

46 minutes ago, david63 said:

I don't know where you live but living just north of Liverpool

I am from Ormskirk getting in to the city is not that bad.

46 minutes ago, david63 said:

but would they have the capacity?

I am sure they can get the capacity. I am sure Olsen's suppliers can supply larger ships if they had to?

46 minutes ago, david63 said:

Not for Fred because their supply chain is centred around Liverpool.

 

I would be more than pleased if Carnival home ported in Liverpool but I am resigned to the fact that it is unlikely to happen anytime soon

If the port isn't aiming to be a homeport for something beyond Fred Olsen then what is the point of it?  They get more and bigger ships than any other port outside of southampton with the exception of the scottish islands. But if the plan is not for a home base then what's the point?

[ace2542]

Just now, david63 said:

There are not many places that I cannot get to from Manchester.

directly?

[exlondoner]

26 minutes ago, david63 said:

Totally disagree. There are more potential passengers within three hours of Liverpool than there are Southampton and Manchester airport is about half the distance from Liverpool than Heathrow is from Southampton.

How can that possibly be so given the relative population densities of Northern and SE England?

[margo2011]

I never mentioned Cunard moving it’s  main operation’s from Southampton .Just some variety for the northern customers.

As someone said Manchester is an international airport and you could be at the port inLiverpool within45minutes.

Im sure some Americans would love to be able to take excursions to the Lakes.Chester ,Snowdonia in around an hour not to mention our abundance of championship golf courses in close proximity . 

[S1971]

32 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

But for the American passengers they can get pretty much anywhere from Heathrow. Not so much from manchester.

 

But American passengers probably only equate to around 20% of the overall capacity, if not less.

 

What the North - South passenger divide as a percentage I have no idea, could be interesting though, lots appear to travel North to South?

Edited June 4 by S1971

[WantedOnVoyage]

But we do have an idea... if the market were there, more lines would be catering to it. Fred. Olsen is it.  They do well enough. But then again, they actually have itinerary planners who enjoy their jobs and come up with different and creative routes as well as departure ports.  

[ace2542]

11 minutes ago, margo2011 said:

I never mentioned Cunard moving it’s  main operation’s from Southampton .Just some variety for the northern customers.

As someone said Manchester is an international airport and you could be at the port inLiverpool within45minutes.

Im sure some Americans would love to be able to take excursions to the Lakes.Chester ,Snowdonia in around an hour not to mention our abundance of championship golf courses in close proximity . 

Cunard not withstanding. If it is not the aim of Liverpool city council or relevant title to transform that cruise terminal into a home porting facility with the benefits to the city that that would bring then what is the point of the development? They can fit the Celeb Apex and MSC Virtousa as is it.

[Pushpit]

20 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

How can that possibly be so given the relative population densities of Northern and SE England?

The population centre of Great Britain (so excluding Northern Ireland) is north of Leicester, south of Derby, which is only 10 miles from the geographic centre of England (south of Ashby de la Zouch). So Liverpool is certainly much nearer to the GB's population centres than Southampton. The geographic centre of GB is a bit north of Manchester. (I live in England but I regard Liverpool as being in the south of England, it's about 4 hours drive for me).

 

Fred. Olsen actually takes passengers from many locations, it is almost an entirely UK passenger base. I know some Germans who like Fred. Olsen but they have to jump through some hoops to get a booking since Fred. Olsen won't market to Germany.  It's just Fred. Olsen's marketing approach for those unwilling to fly and who like the idea of being a short-ish drive to the port. They have quite an elaborate national coach service at much lower cost than Cunard.

 

I suspect Cunard could usefully have Queen Anne taking some passengers from there for European based trips, but I suspect it would be a bit like Cherbourg - a few times a year.

Edited June 4 by Pushpit