Don't Let Them Grind You Down

[2ladies]

If you have a complaint or have been treated unfairly, persevere!! I believe that Celebrity count on passengers being ground down by their systematic denial of claims etc. which they don't want to deal with. One of their favourites is putting you on hold for half-an-hour and if you put the phone down and ring back, they say they told you to hold!! They can reduce you to bordering on the hysterical and extreme hostility to the Company.

 

They don't want to listen to your complaint, just tell you that you are not letting them speak!! They tell you no and you are just supposed to accept it - no discussion!! It is written on your record and everytime you phone the mantra is repeated. You cannot speak to anyone in any sort of authority!!

 

In my case, I believe they are covering up for their own errors - but there is just a small possibility that it is my TA's fault which they claim. However, they refuse to give me any dates or any kind of information!! It certainly is not my fault - and I lose $200!! Since the TA is supposed to be "a valued travel partner" they should be sorting it out with her!! Refuse to do that also!!! She has given up!!

 

The TA has given me permission to speak to them on all levels - but this makes no difference.

 

As a PR person, I cannot believe that those in high Management positions have any idea of the extent of the problem. They should have, considering how hostile Bree Smith became. I never understood her hatred of the Company till now. My problem is negligable compared to hers and if I had been treated like that in her position, I would sue the b******s for every penny!!

[Davey Interweb]

Welcome to Corporate America!

 

and

 

I would sue the b******s for every penny!!

 

Welcome to America!

[2ladies]

Thanks for the welcome to the good ol' US of A!!!! Including lawyers of course!!!:rolleyes:

 

I had heard all this before. A few years ago I had a situation (nothing to do with travel) with a huge corporation - again, not a lot of money involved, just a principle!!? I was sworn at, threatened to break me, etc. etc. However, eventually I won through to the higher Management level who were horrified and the matter was instantly dealt with, with apologies from everyone involved!!

 

It can be done - can I do it a second time? I wonder!! However, this is not Walmart or a supermarket chain where people have to buy food etc. . This is a very sensitive market - one major 'problem' with a cruise ship or a terrorist attack and the cruise industry will suffer badly. They will need their loyal customers!! After 9/11 we were on a huge cruise ship with only a few hundred other pax.

 

I believe they are being very shortsighted. It seems that one person takes a decision and then this is blindly followed, whether it is a right or wrong decision. If people are being persistent, in my experience, this means that they feel very strongly about something - often, quite a small thing!! And they are usually correct!!

 

We have sailed a lot with Princess also and I have to say that if you protest, they do look into the matter. Celebrity doesn't!!!

[osiebosie]

Your thread has certainly left me curious as to what happened.

 

Shay

[charlielinda]

A few years ago my husband and I encounted a "difficult situation" aboard a Celebrity ship. The management and staff on board couldn't have been more wonderful. Once back on land we had to deal with the Celebrity office and had great difficulty though by sheer determination and six months we had the matter resolved. We loved Celebrity before the incident and continue to sail Celebrity because it is a wonderful product. In no way did this one situation affect how we feel about Celebrity.

[tbelian]

If you have a complaint or have been treated unfairly, persevere!!

 

"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent"

 

That being said, I firmly believe that 100% of the effort should be directed where results can eventually be obtained. And, IMO this is not the most effective use of that energy.

[chessbriar]

They have been complaining about this for was seems weeks.

 

From what I know about how X handled this with my agent, it seems their agent dropped the ball couldn't get X to cover the TA's mistake. So the agent just dropped them.

 

They have then decided to pester X eventhough by the agents response of dropping them and X telling them the agent dropped the ball.

 

It's unfortunate this happen, but when push comes to shove X has no responsibility to do anything to cover up the TAs mistake.

 

If you buy a Ford from a dealer ship and the dealership screws up, it's not Ford's place to fix the error. They will tell you to use a different dealership.

[2ladies]

TBelian - this is just one thing I am doing. At the moment I am e-mailing and snail-mailing! When I have enough, I will go down to their Miami office and see if I can get to see someone. I will also write to Conde Nast, Rita, Greta et al!!!! However, I do have to show that I have given them every chance to remedy the situation. I have spent a fortune on calls from the UK and they take delight in putting me on hold for 25 mins at a time - my TA says this is one of their methods!!!

 

Bernardo is supposed to come back to me with some dates. Good thing I didn't hold my breath waiting!!

 

However, I am doing this as it is not particularly good for their image and also because apparently personnel at Celebrity DO read it!! And it might encourage other people to stand up for themselves!!

 

People should not be encouraged to give in!!! Use any means at your disposal to alert others!!

 

Such a shame for the land-based personnel to annoy people who so enjoy their onboard experience.

 

Osiebosie - what happened - to cut a long story short - is that I put a deposit on a cruise months ago. It then came on line as sold out (we all knew it wasn't) then changed to N/A then disappeared!! We all were told different stories, lies etc. by Reservations!! This went on for weeks!!

 

They changed the date and it came back on line!! They were supposed to transfer me to the new date. I assumed that my TA was given the price it first came back on line. Apparently, I wasn't - and they kept upping the online price!! So I got the second price. Only a couple of hundred bucks difference, but its the principle. THEY changed the date not me!! I have lost two weeks of my holiday and am missing a wedding. Surely I should get the first price if I was transferred? They say not!! Say they don't know what the price was on the computer!! Hello Celebrity? Don't you know what you put on line and when?

 

First they tried to insist it was a new booking and now say it was a transfer but they have closed the matter and its not open for discussion. Hello Celebrity? You never discussed it!!

 

Its the principle. We are really good customers of Celebrity and Royal Caribbean. Why annoy your good customers over a few bucks?

 

A customer don'tcare advisor actually said as I was such a good customer, why would I bother over a few hundred bucks!! Hmmm......... They've obviously never watched Judge Judy - its always about the principle when it involves small amounts of money!!!

[2ladies]

Rick - wrong!!! Not the TA's fault!!! If it were, they would have provided the dates and the fax etc. They refuse to!!! If you look at the thread, many people were totally appalled at the way it was handled!! Its just a cover-up for their mishandling of my situation!!

 

My TA has given permission for me to handle it with them directly.

 

Anyway, they refer to TA's as their 'valued travel partners' - hmm.. if a partner makes a mistake, you pick it up!!

 

This will go on for many many months!!

 

You don't have to read it you know!!! If you look at CharlieLinda's post, you will see it took them 6 months!! If I remember rightly, it was your post's to me on a previous thread, which became personally abusive and were removed by the Moderator. I do hope we won't have a repetition - although I don't particularly like the tone of this one!!

 

My Agent didn't drop the ball - she just got the same treatment I am getting!! Anyway, how could she drop the ball when I was supposed to be transferred by Celebrity?

[rebeccalouise]

I have yet to have a problem with Celebrity but I do believe that the pen is mightier than the phone call. The people hired at customer relations have no real authority. They can make and cancel cruises. Most don't know about passenger onboard services, etc. Most don't know about babysitting options, youth program times, etc. That has been my experience with most of the cruise lines. The travel agents should have this information and have the resources to find this information. That is why you use a travel agent.

If you need to file a complaint- it is best to do it in writing. If they do not respond to the complaint in writing- then have a lawyer draft one. See what happens then.

[Davey Interweb]

I see a lot of folks on here asking for the address of the CEO of X, RCCL, HAL and so on so that they can air a complaint. A lot of these posts speak of the runaround they've received in doing so. Might I offer a bit of insight from someone (me!) employed in, and intimately familiar with the inner workings of the customer-relations end of A Very Large Corporation? I'm not pointing these comments to anyone in particular, rather I'm just throwing them out there.

 

When a personal letter to <insert CEO of Fortune 500 company here>, is received at corporate HQ, he or she doesn't actually read it personally. At least one person will be tasked with that duty, or sometimes an entire department depending on the size of said company. From there, based on the purpose of the letter, it'll be forwarded to the appropriate department. Say you have a complaint. In this age of laziness mailed letters are comparatively rare and are typically given priority over email or telephone complaints; mailed correspondence usually winds up in the inbox of either second-tier customer-support or retention personnel. These people almost always have the authority to offer a credit or whatever just to appease you, but not before the tone of your comments are scrutinized.

 

Does your letter imply that you intend to pursue legal action? If it does, it'll then be shuttled to the legal department for investigation; from there you'll likely be mailed a sympathetic form letter and you'll just be another case number until they hear from you again. Your correspondence will probably be scanned, filed and forgotten until a subsequent letter on your behalf is received on an attorneys' letterhead, or if they're contacted by a legitimate (not BBB) consumer-protection agency. This, unsurprisingly, doesn't happen too often. Don't bother threatening to sue unless you indeed intend to make good on that threat, or you're accomplishing nothing but wasting your own time.

 

How about that letter where you make it perfectly clear that <insert company> couldn't do anything right by you and from now on you'll patronize <insert competing company here> instead? You're probably just earning the personal scorn of a low-level supervisor sitting in a cubical farm somewhere, and once they're able to roll their eyes from the back of their skull you'll be mailed the same vaguely-sympathetic letter that Mr. Legalese received. If you're generally just venting, asking for the moon but have suffered no descernable financial loss, no one will care that much. I wouldn't, and I certainly wouldn't take extraordinary steps to stop you from taking your money elsewhere. If you're clearly out of pocket by some mistake of the company, it'll be investigated and addressed accordingly. Don't ask for compensation disproportional to what you're actually out of pocket, because you won't be taken seriously from the outset.

 

This is generally how things work in the customer-service department of a lot of today's multi-billion dollar corporations. Just keep in mind that a human being is listening to or reading your complaint, and is probably making a mediocre salary for doing so. They hear complaints in many forms, many times a day. If you have a legitimate beef, write and mail a letter if you don't wish to jump through the many hoops of a call center, and don't be an ass. I've read many empty complaints on this very forum where the poster is practically demanding a free cruise for some minor wrong, or for something that their cruise line isn't even responsible for under their terms of contract. Don't be one of these people. If you're not certain how to write an effective complaint letter, there are plenty of resources online.

 

I already knew all of this, and when RCCL royally (no pun) screwed up both mine an my mate's account on a Voyager sailing, we wrote them a letter. It got the complaint across while at the same time being so flattering to them that it possibly made some support person's eyes dew up a little. Our actual damages beyond some wasted time and annoyance whilst on the ship was maybe $20. We didn't ask for anything at all. The result? One letter, $200 in future cruise credits that they even allowed us to convert to a shipboard credit on Jewel. Free wine package! Thanks RCCL!

 

Sorry for the long post.

[tbelian]

This will go on for many many months!!

 

 

Best of luck in your endeavors, and for a satisfactory resolution to your issue. While on the road to righteousness, keep in mind that you are not the first to have travelled that road.

[osiebosie]

2ladies,

 

Good luck. I had an incident onboard a Carnival cruise, another mega-company. Actually, all of the pax had the same incident. We missed a port due to the ships propulsion system, and it was something they had known about for a couple of weeks prior to the cruise. Long story short, we had an attorney on board, we all gave names/addresses and emails, we contacted CC ourselves by snail mail, email, and phone, and so did the attorney.

 

All for naught.

 

I commend you if you keep trying, but I understand if you quit.

 

Shay

[2ladies]

Thanks to y'all. Its becoming very interesting!!

 

I was never under any illusion that Richard Fain himself would read my letter!!:D I also realise that the people at level one are on minimum wage, listening to all these supposedly wealthy people whinging!! Listening to this all day is probably mind-blowing!! But that's not the point!! It's the job!!

 

Princess insists that all complaints are put in writing - you cannot speak to their 'customer don'tcare department'!! Now I find this rather irritating, but after this experience, I believe that perhaps they have a point. At least you can't get into it with a letter!! If its in writing, they can't get rid of you that easily and it will be carefully handled! Of course, this is a more expensive way of handling complaints - but maybe not in the long run!!

 

As it happens, I received a call from an Executive a few hours ago. At last someone is showing a little sense and agrees that I am not a new booking - not when they have held my deposit for five months!! Apologetic about the run-around I have had etc. Quite right!!!

 

We'll see if anything actually happens, but hopefully, the matter will get looked into properly!!

 

This gentleman by the way, works for both Celebrity and Royal Caribbean, so its quite interesting that there is actually a higher level troubleshooter if you 'pester' enough!! (To quote the ever delightful Chessbriar)!

 

Shay - a few years ago we did a transatlantic on the Grandeur of the Seas. Second day out, we are idly standing on the aft deck looking out over the wake and saw that it was onesided!! Turns out that one engine computer card kept blowing after 15 hours and they didn't have enough cards. (Well, that's what they said). Nice going over on one engine!! Did they know before we left? Well, the Captain didn't seem too surprised that there was a problem!!

. Tried to deny it at first, but we are not dum-dums!! We were relieved to reach Europe - no spare was a bit risky!!

 

Missed ports etc. are covered in the contract and I am not actually too sympathetic to pax sometimes. (Your case is different since Carnival knew there was a problem)! A few weeks ago on a rival cruiseline, we missed a port and those with private tours had to pay the operators. They thought the Captain was too cautious - this was a tendering port!! They didn't agree with him about the wind direction!!! Then when we got to Edinburgh, tugs had to actually hold us in place 'cos of the wind!! Did this take the wind out of their sails (sorry!) - not a bit of it!? Captain still wrong!!

 

So I do see both sides. But my particular problem is just one of common sense - but maybe it was a cover-up because I think that perhaps both Revenue and Redeployment handled it very badly!! Cancelling and rescheduling cruises should be handled very sensitively. Giving passengers time to decide whether to accept offers or alternatives is essential - keeping repeat customers surely helps to reduce the level of advertising necessary!?

 

I am pleased to say that my letter to Richard Fain neither threatened legal action, nor that we are going on another cruise line. It was a short and factual one pager.

[dmk]

Davey:

Excellent insight into how PR is handled in large corporations. It is helpful information for anyone wishing to lodge a complaint.

Rebeccalouise:

Very well put. I couldn't agree with you more.

[chessbriar]

It's not TA's fault, meanwhile you seem to be the only one who had this problem. Don't you think someone else on these boards would have had the same problem.

 

I have a easy time seeing how a TA could have screwed this up seeing the short time X gave agents to rebook. I find more fault in the short time than I do in X. Your agent had to make the call to get the booking changed over. It wasn't an automatic change over.

 

It's a shame that this has happened this way. Good luck in you attempt to get anything from X. Expect nothing and anything you get will be a bonus.

[2ladies]

Rick - immediately it came on the computer, I phoned X. They said the TA had to phone them. She did and was told she had to wait for a fax to make the transfer. My problem is that X refuse to tell me when they sent her a fax!! They also should have given her plenty of time to contact her client and look into alternatives etc. In any case, a transfer should have been made at the original price - this price should have been held for transferees as the offered price for a transfer!! This is how normal businesses operate!! What if the TA or I had been on holiday?

 

I am not sure if she did mess up - perhaps the fax to her was overlooked and went out late. Who knows? X won't give me any details.

 

It is insulting to make us wait weeks, telling us all sorts of stories about what is happening to our cruise, and then say that you have only a couple of days to decide, otherwise you will have to pay more!! They had my deposit for five months, for heavens sake!!

 

If you look at other posts, you will see that someone else had a similar problem on another cruise!!

 

If people would only protest more, these big Corporations would have to become more customer friendly and give more thought to their loyal customers convenience.

 

In my case, it was badly handled - your turn may yet come!!! Mistakes happen - but I expect them to be handled in a sensible manner. To add insult to injury, RCCL had let me take a hold on the Brilliance when the Connie disappeared, and which was also doing a ta to the UK . Would you believe that this then also disappeared and weeks later was rescheduled to continental Europe!!

 

To you guys this is a cruise. To us, this is our passage to the UK where we live in the summer!! We have visa timings to consider etc. That is why we book early, so everything fits in!!

 

Anyway, we wern't treated with any respect by the customer don'tcare department. At least the gentleman who 'phoned today offered an apology - that's a first!!!

[dmk]

[chessbriar]

I agree that to give us such short time to figure out rebooking a vacation was sad.

 

My agent called within the time aloted by X. I had booked a 2C cabin, the cruise I choose did not have that level of cabin, but they honored the price and bumped me to a 2A. The letters were faxed out on a Friday and X wanted changed made immediately. X was called back the next day to change my sail date and the change was made with no problem.

 

Letters were faxed out in the US on July 28 and my agent told me changes had to be made that day, I don't know if it was X's policy or my agents. I don't know when they went out to foreign agents.

 

I don't know if this helps or not.

 

One quick question, did you keep the same booking #?

 

What might be a good thing to do is use these boards to your advantage. Rather than just complaining about X, put the questions out there to find when people on the boards were notified, how much time they had to make the change and any problems they may have encountered. Build a record to use as you talk to people at X. Any info you could gather from others from the UK would be most helpful. I don't know if the faxes were sent out to US and UK agents on the same day or not.

[C 2 C]

Anyway, they refer to TA's as their 'valued travel partners' - hmm.. if a partner makes a mistake, you pick it up!!

The TAs out there love him:

ASTA Names Celebrity Cruises President Dan Hanrahan 'Allied Member of the Year' MIAMI, Sept. 15 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Celebrity Cruises President Dan Hanrahan was honored by the American Society of Travel Agents (ASTA) this week when the organization named him ASTA "Allied Member of the Year" during opening ceremonies of "The Trade Show," the organization's three-day event attracting thousands of travel agents, consumers and travel suppliers.

Introduced in 1986 at the Singapore World Travel Congress, ASTA's annual Allied Member of the Year award is designed to recognize a person who has made significant contributions to travel that have favorably affected the domestic or international travel industry community.

"Dan Hanrahan has had a significant influence on the travel industry and has been recognized for years as an enthusiastic and sincere supporter of the travel agent community," said ASTA President and CEO Cheryl Hudak, CTC.

"This is a tremendous honor, both for me and for Celebrity Cruises," said Celebrity's President Dan Hanrahan. "We have always known how vital travel agents are to our success. The relationship between Celebrity and our travel agent partners is stronger than I've ever seen it, and we're working very hard to make it even better."

[2ladies]

Chessbriar - yes, same booking number!! As far as I can tell, the UK booking agents were days behind in notification. Other countries I don't know. Of course, I am the only one with the problem on CruiseCritic - may be others, we wouldn't know who else is out there!! We don't comprise the passenger base of the whole ship!

 

Personally, I think it was all a bit of a mess-up. To give you one day to decide when they have held your deposit for months, is totally out of order. Management arrogance!! Had you or your ta been away, you would be in my position also!! I am pleased for you that you were available on that very day!

 

However, my 'beef' with Celebrity is that they won't give me any information!! No dates of faxes, no dates of prices on line. It wasn't MY fault - the fault lies with one of them - and if it is my TA, Celebrity is covering up for them!! Passengers are expendable, travel agents not!! Well, unfortunately that's what it's beginning to look like!!

[Karynanne]

It's interesting that the issue of the Smith Family is being brought into this discussion. They are dealing with a loss of life....not money. And a investigation into that loss of life was being conducted at that time.

 

My question to you is....What would it take to make you happy in this situation? An apology from Celebrity? Return of money, you feel is owed to you? Compensation on a future cruise?

 

I am in no way denying that Celebrity's Customer Service needs some attention...

 

To paraphase Dr. Phil..."Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?"

 

Karyn

[hobbit81]

Stay calm, and respectful, keep everything in writting and be professional. My dad taught me years ago that if you are not satisfied with the service or product you paid your hard earned money too, let them know. But you do it in a way that will not put them on the defensive. Getting angry rarely solves a problem. Bottom line is if I'm not happy then they know I will go somewhere else; buy a diffrent product, cruise another line, etc.... That does not mean that they have to offer me a full refund, that just means that they need to find some way to keep me as a customer. Hey if they are doing so well that they don't need me as a customer, then maybe it's time for me to look for a company that will.

 

We all have choices where to spend our money with. Most retailers know this. If they don't, they won't be in business long. :rolleyes: just my opinion.

[lkb125]

We might be having the same problem with our April 21, 07 Transatlantic cruise from Tampa Fl to Rome Italy on the Legend of the Sea. We booked when we were on the April Transatlantic of the Jewel Of the Sea and recently when we went to check on this cruise and put our booking number in it did not show we had a cruise booked at all. After calling and receiving different reasons from different people they now say we will know for sure about this cruise in 2 weeks, will it be canceled? rescheduled? other changes? ect Lorelle

[2ladies]

I have written a very factual letter. I did have some assistance - you know who you are!! I am a happy bunny for most of the time anyway!! I am sure Lorelle and Warren will attest to this fact!! My training is to persevere - that doesn't make me an angry person. I am more of a socially conscious animal - just hoping that this will make a difference

and convince the Company that their customer relations department must improve their handling of complaints.

 

I don't want anything for nothing!! Just what I should have received in the first place - the proper pricing which should happen with a transfer and the promised shipboard credit which everyone else received. If I received the cost of the 'phone calls from the UK to the US, this would show some goodwill on the part of RCCL!!

 

What do I want? A nice apologetic letter confirming the above!! A free ship would be nice - not gonna happen:D.

 

In fact, it is all probably going to cost me considerably more anyway!! I have lost my taste for this cruise, so I am now holding a reservation for the Navigator a day later also!! This has gone up considerably since the problems with the Connie - but that's how the cookie crumbles!!

 

Hopefully, the Connie problem will all be sorted out - maybe when all this dust dies down, we may regain our enthusiasm for Celebrity!! Hmm......

 

Lorelle - what can I say about your cruise? If it follows the same line as ours, the cruise either ain't gonna happen or the dates will change!! However, if you are working through a Travel Agent, make sure you keep your finger on the button when it comes to compensation or different dates. Watch the RCCL site every day!!