Attn. Zuiderdam - St Thomas 11pm Port Time - Cruisers

[dexter]

I just received an email from icruise.com informing me of the itinerary change. We leave St. Thomas at 6pm instead of 12mid. I don't like it, but what can I do? Nothing. They tell you from the beginning that they reserve the right to change ports or schedules. I'm not sure if we wanted to spend time in St. Thomas after dark anyway and that still gives us plenty of time to get back from St John.

[MandyGirl]

I just received a reply from HAL internet department supervisor, and this is what he stated:

 

"There may be some miscommunication about the hours in port for St. Thomas on

your sailing. You mention in your message missing a sunset, dinner on land,

etc. which suggests you have been advised that the port hours are in the

afternoon at some time --? Would you kindly clarify what you were given and

by whom? My most up to date information, which I verified with a couple of

departments who usually get all the updated changes when needed, show a port

time in St. Thomas of 8:00 a.m. to 11: 00 p.m. Our original departure time

of 12:00 midnight has been scaled back one hour -- that has been the only

change to my knowledge -- likely due to the accommodate for the need to

leave the pier well before midnight in order to avoid being charged a pier

fee for the subsequent calendar day which begins at midnight. "

I replied, sharing that various posters here receive different information from different groups via phone/fax/email, and sometimes the internet shows a discrepancy. I also shared a few of the threads here so he can view them.

So, from his perspective, it looks like my Nov 20 Zuiderdam itinerary is as I booked it in June (8A-11P). But as we have seen from other posters here on CC, each department may relay different information for the exact same cruise, and some may say through the end of the year while others say through Oct 23 and again while others say no change at all on any cruise. I really hope this person from HAL is correct and can do something to help clarify on HAL's website (when you click on itineraries). I am pleased to receive a reply. :)

[dexter]

If what your HAL contact said is true then why would my TA tell me different. This is really confusing and all HAL would have to do is change it on their website if the change is indeed true. So, until they change it I will believe that we will be in St. Thomas until 11pm.

[FloridaGram]

I can tell you a possibility that really could stink.... we had a tour booked in May in the afternoon and could not even get to St John because of rough seas. And we didn't find out until we were out to the boat dock on some dreary part of the island I had never been to. No one bothered to tell us the destination had changed and when some people on the tour found out they wouldn't go, causing them to cancel the whole tour. (HAL knew at the dock because the morning tour changed.) Our entire day in St Thomas was ruined and we got a crappy bottle of wine that we will never drink for our trouble. We would have gone back to Magens Bay to at least have a day at the beach if we had known.

 

SO if the worse thing that happens is you leave early at least you got to go there!

 

An observation..our balcony was overlooking the dock in St Thomas and there were only about 4 people that boarded after 9 PM when we started watching. (We stayed until 11) It could be they changed it for lack of interest in staying late. Sorry that upsets your plans but HAL may be making a business decision based on what most passengers do.

 

This all reminded me of the worst cruise day I have had in 7 cruises and they didn't care much about my satisfaction so don't expect much.

[Esme]

OK - here's the reason for the change - this was e-mailed to me by a friend who works at HAL's Head Office:

 

Our "old" itinerary was arriving Tuesday in St Thomas, from 8 AM - 11 PM,

Wednesday Tortola from 8 AM till 6 PM.

 

Due to dredging operations in St Thomas harbor the itinerary was changed

temporarily to Tuesdays Tortola, from 8 AM till 6PM, and Wednesday St Thomas from 8 AM till 6 PM. Otherwise we would not have a berth in St Thomas. This revised schedule worked out a lot better, as the Zuiderdam would be the only ship in Tortola and the only ship in St Thomas. While in the "old" schedule they would be in Tortola and in St Thomas with other mega ships, and encounter all the headaches, congestion, tour problems etc. The Zuiderdam will be on this revised schedule until the end of October.

 

Most people do not want to stay in St. Thomas after dark as it is crime ridden.

 

Some of the positives for changing St. Thomas to Wednesday when Zuiderdam would be the only ship in port are:

 

Less Crowding in port – nice and quiet in the port area with less traffic to and from town.

 

More tour space available as the mega ships would not be there.

 

The dock is empty except for Zuiderdam so there is lots of space to maneuver the tour groups on the pier. If they were there on Tuesday they would either have to dock at Crowne Bay, which no one likes, or tender into downtown and there is no shade or places for guests to sit and wait for the tenders.

 

In Tortola we would be the only ship docked on Tuesday meaning again all the same as above.

 

Hope this answers all your questions.

[superstein61]

Esme - thanks for the info. I am not doubting your source - but here is what I take exception with:

 

 

Due to dredging operations in St Thomas harbor the itinerary was changed

temporarily to Tuesdays Tortola, from 8 AM till 6PM, and Wednesday St Thomas from 8 AM till 6 PM.

 

This "dredging" wasn't something somoen on St Thomas just decided to do. HAL had to know of this before - So why has HAL sold their cruise under false pretenses?

 

 

Otherwise we would not have a berth in St Thomas.

 

This is a lie. There is more than just the Havensight dock in St Thomas. In the winter - sometimes there are 8 ships calling on St Thomas. There would only be 4 now if the Z stayed with the advertised schedule

 

 

This revised schedule worked out a lot better, as the Zuiderdam would be the only ship in Tortola and the only ship in St Thomas. While in the "old" schedule they would be in Tortola and in St Thomas with other mega ships, and encounter all the headaches, congestion, tour problems etc.

 

From a crowding problem in St Thomas - perhaps - but I have been in St Thomas with at least 3 ships there and didn't notice excess crowds. I belive in Tortola - the Z would be the only ship either day - so no change there

 

 

Most people do not want to stay in St. Thomas after dark as it is crime ridden.

 

UTTER HAL BS. Why advertise and sell a cruise that has a 11pm St Thomas departure time if "most people do not want to stay there" HAL is just trying to cover their collective backsides here

 

Some of the positives for changing St. Thomas to Wednesday when Zuiderdam would be.

 

The one and only positive is being the only ship in St Thomas - but funny how they neglected to point out the negatives of the change.

 

HAL HAS DONE AN EXTREMELY POOR JOB WITH THIS. I WOULD CONTINUE TO COMPLAIN AND TELL HAL TO DLEIVER WHAT YOU PAID FOR

[MandyGirl]

All -

 

I received this communication from HAL. I had replied to Jim Wednesday afternoon, including a few links to these CC threads here showing discrepancies in information coming from various departments. I must say that I am very pleased with Jim replying and looking into this - this is what HAL is known for in customer service! :) He had shared in his previous email that he had worked onboard for a time, so it is insightful he has that 'front line customer service' experience. The email below may not answer "why" the change in itinerary, but we've learned what Esme shared (dredging). However, it at least lets us know which Zuiderdam cruises are affected. Also, I think there is a big difference in the number of ships in port prior to October versus after October (after ships have repositioned to Caribbean for the winter) - so when some posters are saying 'only one ship in port' that would most likely be prior to mid-October (I had researched my own cruise for Thanksgiving and St Thomas has at least 2 other ships in port each day in question).

 

Here was Jim's reply:

 

 

From: "Picicci, Jim (HAL)"

Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:15 PM

Subject: RE: Holland America cruise to St. Thomas

> Hello again, and thank you for waiting for a further response.

> I appreciate the links to cruisecritic.com so I can see what has been

> happening and the frustration for booked passengers, which we certainly do

> not want. I also got your other message showing the specific response that

> someone here at Holland America had sent, stating the St. Thomas port change

> time would be lasting through the rest of the year 2004.

>

> Here is the absolute latest information, directly from our Marketing

> department's itinerary planning manager. (It is not going to get confused

> coming directly from the person in charge!!)

>

> St. Thomas and Tortola's days in port were indeed swapped around for Eastern

> Caribbean itineraries from the July 3 sailing through the October 23

> sailing. For these sailings only, this change was to provide what we felt

> was a more enhanced visit to St. Thomas; the reason being, the change of day

> allows us to berth at the cruiseship terminal, as opposed to the cargo dock.

> Since Tortola and St. Thomas are virtually in the same area, it is still

> necessary to depart St. Thomas at 6 p.m. (the same time the departure hour

> was from Tortola before the swap) to stay oncourse for the return to Fort

> Lauderdale.

>

> For Zuiderdam cruises (such as yours) operating from October 30 through

> December 11, St. Thomas remains the port on Tuesday followed by Tortola on

> Wednesday. The port hours for St. Thomas are 8 a.m. to 11 p.m.

>

> I will endeavor to make sure all reservations agents and supervisors in the

> Reservations Department are aware of this information. I apologize for the

> confusing and differing information you and others on the message board have

> received. I hope this has been of assistance.

>

> Our intent is to provide an overall better service when an itinerary/port

> hour change is made, but I realize that as a result enhancement of passenger

> satisfaction in one area may mean disappointment in another. It is literally

> not possible to make a 100% pleasing itinerary for over 1,000 guests onboard

> the ship as I am sure you can agree. Any changes are therefore based on

> where the best overall satisfaction will hopefully be found, based on our

> past experience, and we hope those inconvenienced will make adjustment based

> on the understanding that itineraries are subject to modification.

>

> Thank you for bringing this important topic to my attention and I hope to

> have helped straighten out confusion and difficulty, and to at least provide

> explanation for those disappointed in the shortened port hours of St. Thomas

> for those cruises affected.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Jim Picicci

> Internet Department Supervisor

> Holland America Line

 

[Nebraska Admiral]

I have been surfing the various ta's web sites and found that Travelocity's listings for HAL's eastern cariabean has been changes to reflect the new intenary Other sites do not show this. Maybe part of the blame should be placed on the ta's who have not updated their web site.

Dick

[MandyGirl]

Nebraska - I believe most people were referring to HollandAmerica.com to see what was real or not for itinerary changes, since we knew the TAs can be a little late in updating their websites.

[MandyGirl]

For example...

 

I just checked Sept 23 (2004) Zuiderdam eastern Caribbean on hollandamerica.com and it shows this:

0 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 5:00 pm 1 Half Moon Cay, Bahamas1 8:00 am 4:00 pm 2 At Sea 3 St. Thomas, U.S. V.I. 8:00 am 11:00 pm 4 Road Town, Tortola 7:00 am 6:00 pm 5 At Sea 6 Nassau, Bahamas 1:00 pm 8:00 pm 7 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 8:00 am

I assume they are still working to reflect the port changes on their own website.

[superstein61]

Mandy

 

Would you mind sharing Jim's email address with me? I would like to contact him directly as no one from HAL is returning my emails now

 

Thanks

[MandyGirl]

Sure! His title is Internet Department Supervisor. JPicicci@HollandAmerica.com He seems to be a really nice guy! I think my email had trickled it's way to him.

[KAKcruiser]

Does anyone know what the truth is about immigration in St. Thomas? Would we still have to go through immigration if we went to St. Thomas right after Half Moon Cay?

[superstein61]

Mandy - thank you

[Spot]

I believe the date is September 25th - October 2 for this eastern itinerary

[peaches from georgia]

Does anyone know what the truth is about immigration in St. Thomas? Would we still have to go through immigration if we went to St. Thomas right after Half Moon Cay?

 

All you have to remember no matter where you are traveling is that you have to go through U.S. immigration when entering the U.S. or any of its territories from a foreign country. That's the law.

 

Therefore, you would have to go through immigration when entering St. Thomas from Half Moon Cay. St. Thomas is a U.S. Territory and Half Moon Cay is in the Bahamas. On a Western Carib cruise if you go from FLL to Cozumel and then to Key West and back to FLL you go through immigration in KW and not in FLL. Key West is your first entry into the U.S, after having been in a foreign country, Mexico.

[Chadzbrew]

Seems like the whole "Bait and Switch" worked for 2004 as this is what they are doing for summer 2005 as well. It seems as though this is how HAL operates. I plan on rebooking with a company with integrity!