Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Host Sharon]

Do me a favour. When I was on Cunard Countess for a family reunion cruise, we all got the giggles at her Reception and lobby area. It was royal blue paint on ceilings, walls, royal blue carpet, it was walking into a royal blue cave. Do tell if it is still so, uh, blue!

 

I am green with envy (nyuck, nyuck) that you can drive to these embarkation ports. If my flight to a foreign port is less than 10 hrs., I am thrilled!

 

 

 

Ruby

 

I can answer your question now Ruby,as i have the brochure for Ocdean Countess and no - it is not royal blue any more - just natural wood and beiges from the look of it. There is a good video tour of the ship here http://www.crowsnestonline.co.uk/content/190-ocean-countess.html

 

I suppose I take it for granted about reaching embarkation ports fairly easily, although Dover would be a bit of a trek from here. The plus side of living in a small country!

[RalphRackstraw]

 

To Ralph - the August 2012 Conde Nast Traveler has a nice article about kayaking in Alaska. I assume you have done quite a lot of that sport in that area but you might want to check it out.

 

Ruby

Hello there, and thanks for remembering me! :) I have been lurking from time to time. Alas, I have not kayaked Alaskan waters...yet! On my wish list are the Inside Passage cruises offered by InnerSea Discoveries aboard the Wilderness Adventurer (60 passengers) or Wilderness Discoverer (76 p.); each vessel carries several kayaks, inflatable skiffs, and paddle boards to launch off the stern for up-close and personal encounters with nature. I just have to talk the Missus into it. She seems to have other travel priorities at the moment.

 

Our next expedition takes us to Washington's Olympic Peninsula 12-25 August (bringing kayak). 17-18 August we plan to ferry over to Victoria, British Columbia. That will place us within waving distance of Kapricorn Kountry!

[Conte Di Savoia]

Ralph, Peter Knego just published a review of his cruise on Safari Endeavour, a small 86 passenger vessel in Alaska. You might like to read the review for no other reason but to look at the pictures. You can find it here.

[MMDown Under]

 

Wonderful to hear! When you are back home, do tell us of the pluses you found about Black Watch. I do like the size of the Fred Olsen ships, with not one mega-barge in that fleet.

 

Donald.

 

I'm back home again after my travels.

 

Post cruise, I enjoyed visiting Paris, Poland and Berlin. After the Queen's Diamond Jubilee Celebrations, it was an interesting mixture of experiences!

 

I'll write a review on the Black Watch, in due course. Meanwhile I'm catching up on paperwork, etc. and enjoying watching the Olympics, from an Australian perspective.

[Host Sharon]

Welcome home MArion. Sounds like a wonderful holiday.

 

I had a great visit on board Holland America Line's Maasdam yesterday. I must say the HAL ships appeal to me a lot. Not too big (55,500 tons) and low pax ratio

 

I have photos here for anyone interested.

[MMDown Under]

Welcome home MArion. Sounds like a wonderful holiday.

 

I had a great visit on board Holland America Line's Maasdam yesterday. I must say the HAL ships appeal to me a lot. Not too big (55,500 tons) and low pax ratio

 

I have photos here for anyone interested.

 

Thanks for sharing the great photos of Maasdam, Sharon.

 

I didn't realise it was such a beautiful ship. I was once waitlisted for a TA from US across the top on this ship, because of its size and itinerary.

 

HAL has always appealed to me, but I can no longer purchase cruises from US Agents, due to company policy.

[Saga Ruby]

HAL has always appealed to me, but I can no longer purchase cruises from US Agents, due to company policy.

 

Sorry? Huh? What company policy? Whatever the reason, shame on HAL.

 

I know you're still sorting thru post-cruise matters but I would like to put in my word for your notes about Poland. I've never been there and will be interested to read your comments.

 

Welcome home from the Queen's Jubilee. What a historic event to attend.

 

Ruby

[MMDown Under]

Sorry? Huh? What company policy? Whatever the reason, shame on HAL.

 

I know you're still sorting thru post-cruise matters but I would like to put in my word for your notes about Poland. I've never been there and will be interested to read your comments.

 

Welcome home from the Queen's Jubilee. What a historic event to attend.

 

Ruby

 

Yes, it is corporate policy. Why? Because they charge much higher prices in Australia, for the same cruise, which overseas cruisers pay less for. In addition, we don't get the same benefits, with large, non refundable deposits, no price drops, no OBC, etc.

 

Poland was never on my wish list, but I accompanied a friend, who was travelling overseas for the first time to visit relatives. So it was basically an extended "family" visit, with endless warm and generous hospitality.

[Host Sharon]

Same in the UK Ruby - we can't book from US sites and miss out on the price drops and refundable/transferable deposits.

[Saga Ruby]

Yes, it is corporate policy. Why? Because they charge much higher prices in Australia, for the same cruise, which overseas cruisers pay less for. In addition, we don't get the same benefits, with large, non refundable deposits, no price drops, no OBC, etc.

 

Same in the UK Ruby - we can't book from US sites and miss out on the price drops and refundable/transferable deposits.

 

This is so interesting about differing price structures by cruise lines based on location. By far and away the most expensive cruise line I've ever sailed on were the Saga cruises.

 

In the UK, Saga company policy offers free transfers from home to wharf, discounts on airfare, certain price advantages - none of which I was eligible for. I paid my own airfare, my hotel accommodation pre-cruise, always in Dover, was up to me to arrange and pay, my transfer to the ship was my responsibility, on and on. I loved Saga holidays but they were quite pricey for an American.

 

I feel your pain.

 

Ruby

[MMDown Under]

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=107042

 

For those who are interested, I have written a review of our recent cruise on Black Watch.

[MMDown Under]

This is so interesting about differing price structures by cruise lines based on location. By far and away the most expensive cruise line I've ever sailed on were the Saga cruises.

 

In the UK, Saga company policy offers free transfers from home to wharf, discounts on airfare, certain price advantages - none of which I was eligible for. I paid my own airfare, my hotel accommodation pre-cruise, always in Dover, was up to me to arrange and pay, my transfer to the ship was my responsibility, on and on. I loved Saga holidays but they were quite pricey for an American.

 

I feel your pain.

 

Ruby

 

Fortunately Ruby, the internet has changed the world. I can book all my travel requirements overseas direct, including cruises, so ignore companies that don't allow this.

[Saga Ruby]

Marion - Thanks for the interesting review of Black Watch. Your comment about the Library onboard brought up several comments I would like to pass along:

 

On the Saga Sisters, their extensive book collections were most appreciated. I checked out a book about a holiday fair in the UK which was abfab. And the huge globes were fun to use as we traveled along. I know there are now e-world globes but spinning a handsome orb appeals.

 

A pet peeve - On Saga ships, in their libraries, there were really nice, comfy leather chairs in which one could sit and read. But daily, as of 9:00am, the Old Guys had long since occupied the recliners, gone fast asleep, and were homesteaded until lunch. Every day, every day, every day. It was exactly like chair hogs who put out a towel every morning at 6:00am, then get huffy if someone is occupying their chairs at 2:00pm. Chair hogs are also epidemic in Hawaii. Don't get me started.

 

I enjoyed listening to the various Brits having lively discussions about the differences between Saga and Fred. Olson. The one consistent thing I heard about Fred. Olson was that the son was a dragon, as opposed to his father's business abilities and hospitalities. They said that the son would never stoop so low as to talk to his own passengers. Quite interesting to this fly on the wall.

 

Ruby

Edited August 7, 2012 by Saga Ruby

[MMDown Under]

Marion - Thanks for the interesting review of Black Watch. Your comment about the Library onboard brought up several comments I would like to pass along:

 

On the Saga Sisters, their extensive book collections were most appreciated. I checked out a book about a holiday fair in the UK which was abfab. And the huge globes were fun to use as we traveled along. I know there are now e-world globes but spinning a handsome orb appeals.

 

A pet peeve - On Saga ships, in their libraries, there were really nice, comfy leather chairs in which one could sit and read. But daily, as of 9:00am, the Old Guys had long since occupied the recliners, gone fast asleep, and were homesteaded until lunch. Every day, every day, every day. It was exactly like chair hogs who put out a towel every morning at 6:00am, then get huffy if someone is occupying their chairs at 2:00pm. Chair hogs are also epidemic in Hawaii. Don't get me started.

 

I enjoyed listening to the various Brits having lively discussions about the differences between Saga and Fred. Olson. The one consistent thing I heard about Fred. Olson was that the son was a dragon, as opposed to his father's business abilities and hospitalities. They said that the son would never stoop so low as to talk to his own passengers. Quite interesting to this fly on the wall.

 

Ruby

 

My response disappeared, Ruby, so I'll try again.

 

I wouldn't be game to sit in a comfy chair to read a book, in the ship's library, as I'd also soon fall asleep. I love globes also, as well as big books of maps.

 

I enjoyed following the Black Watch's cruise route, which was charted each day by hand each day. I don't recall ever seeing that before, in a public space.

 

Does that son now run Fred.Olsen, which I know is a family company?

 

Am already dreaming of cruising with them again on a grand voyage segment. The traveler has returned to the local library. Got a library book out today on South Africa, as well as one on St Petersburg, to refresh my memory, and Chile (CWA country of study).

 

When is your South Africa cruise departing?

 

Would you like to cruise on a Saga ship again, if the price was affordable?

Edited August 9, 2012 by MMDown Under

[Saga Ruby]

Does that son now run Fred.Olsen, which I know is a family company?

 

Am already dreaming of cruising with them again on a grand voyage segment. The traveler has returned to the local library. Got a library book out today on South Africa, as well as one on St Petersburg, to refresh my memory, and Chile (CWA country of study).

 

When is your South Africa cruise departing?

 

Would you like to cruise on a Saga ship again, if the price was affordable?

 

I would be interested to know if the son is still running Fred. Olsen. The discussions onboard the Saga Sisters were lively, with everyone talking about the son's haughty attitude. When next you sail on Olsen, be sure to bring back info. As you can tell, each cruise line, Saga and Olsen, has its fans but everyone agrees that Saga is more pricey than Olsen.

 

About sailing again on Saga - I have seen as much as I need to see of western Europe. I have squeezed the juice out of this area and, altho' I will always regret not seeing Checkpoint Charlie in Berlin and The Wall being torn down, I will not be returning to this area. If I never land at Heathrow or Gatwick again, it will be too soon. Harumph! But I have moved on to Silversea, thanks to Conte, although Saga and its quality itineraries and service will remain shining stars in my travel history.

 

I will be leaving on 01 April for my African adventure. I'll be spending a few days in South Africa - I want to see the confluence of the Indian Ocean and the Atlantic. There will be nothing to see at that Cape except plain ole sea water, but I just want to Be There. I will probably be the only pax onboard Whisper that didn't visit the vineyards or pet a lion in South Africa, but my interests lie elsewhere. But I have other goals while in that area.

 

Ruby

[MMDown Under]

altho' I will always regret not seeing Checkpoint Charlie in Berlin and The Wall being torn down.

 

Ruby

 

You wouldn't want to see Checkpoint Charlie and what remains of the Wall in Berlin now, Ruby, as they are just tourist traps.

 

Recently in Berlin, I escaped the rain for a hot cup of tea at McDonalds, where I sat on a window seat overlooking Checkpoint Charlie. It was just a huge mass of posing tourists.

 

I had visited Berlin, when it was a divided city in a divided country, and visited both sides, so saw the wall and Checkpoints for real.

 

Once I got my bearings in Berlin this visit, I realised my hotel on Invalidenstr, near the new Berlin Railway Station, was in the former East Berlin and in a street which was a crossing point.

 

I visited two memorable museums "Border Experiences - Everyday Life in a Divided Germany - Palace of Tears" at Friedrichstrasse Station and "STASI - Exhibition of the GDR State Security" @ Zimmerstrasse, near Checkpoint Charlie.

[Saga Ruby]

I had visited Berlin, when it was a divided city in a divided country, and visited both sides, so saw the wall and Checkpoints for real.

 

Once I got my bearings in Berlin this visit, I realised my hotel on Invalidenstr, near the new Berlin Railway Station, was in the former East Berlin and in a street which was a crossing point.

 

My family was in Berlin in 1962, in the summer before the Cuban missile crisis which bloomed that fall. We stayed at the Bristol Kempinski and landed at the late, lamented Templehof. We were there several days; I have stories to tell about the East German border guards, The Wall, the East Berlin apartment houses all dressed up and painted to look nice beyond the border, on and on. I wanted to close the circle of that visit of several days with one last look at how it all turned out but, as I said, I've lost the urge to see it now.

 

Thanks for telling me about the saturated tourist looky-loos of that very sad, very militaristic area we visited in 1962. It's time for me to face the reality of today's sites and move on.

 

Ruby

[MMDown Under]

I will be leaving on 01 April for my African adventure. I'll be spending a few days in South Africa - I want to see the confluence of the Indian Ocean and the Atlantic. There will be nothing to see at that Cape except plain ole sea water, but I just want to Be There. I will probably be the only pax onboard Whisper that didn't visit the vineyards or pet a lion in South Africa, but my interests lie elsewhere. But I have other goals while in that area.

 

Ruby

 

My family was in Berlin in 1962, in the summer before the Cuban missile crisis which bloomed that fall. We stayed at the Bristol Kempinski and landed at the late, lamented Templehof. We were there several days; I have stories to tell about the East German border guards, The Wall, the East Berlin apartment houses all dressed up and painted to look nice beyond the border, on and on. I wanted to close the circle of that visit of several days with one last look at how it all turned out but, as I said, I've lost the urge to see it now.

 

Thanks for telling me about the saturated tourist looky-loos of that very sad, very militaristic area we visited in 1962. It's time for me to face the reality of today's sites and move on.

 

Ruby

 

You might be surprised how many other people will be looking, with fascination, at the meeting of the Oceans, in South Africa. I certainly did, many years ago, as well as more recently at the very tip of the North Island, NZ.

 

What else do you have in mind? I smiled when you said you might be the only passenger who hadn't visited a vineyard or seen a lion.

 

BTW I love Berlin, which is now a vibrant international city, with similiar attractions to London, NY, and Paris. It is an easy city for independent travellers to explore, with enough English available at museums to answer my curiosity.

[Saga Ruby]

You might be surprised how many other people will be looking, with fascination, at the meeting of the Oceans, in South Africa. I certainly did, many years ago, as well as more recently at the very tip of the North Island, NZ.

 

What else do you have in mind? I smiled when you said you might be the only passenger who hadn't visited a vineyard or seen a lion.

 

BTW I love Berlin, which is now a vibrant international city, with similiar attractions to London, NY, and Paris. It is an easy city for independent travellers to explore, with enough English available at museums to answer my curiosity.

 

You have me smiling about the confluence of East and West oceans at the cape in South Africa. Ya mean there are other geography geeks out there? Is there any kind of "Land's End" type of sign on a beach? To me, seeing this point in Africa will close the circle of my travels. I've circled the globe many times but to stand at that point will give me great satisfaction.

 

About goals for my South Africa visit - if I fly into Jo'burg, and before flying on to CPT, I might like to bash over the border to Botswana because I have read a series of books about that country. As far as Cape Town, I'm collecting a list of looky-loos for that area. If you have some favourites, please pass them along.

 

Some years ago, I was a patron of an exotic animal sanctuary outside of Fort Worth TX. I was out there every week for years. Eventually I was allowed to bottle-feed lion twins in the kitchen, and sat with young tiger triplets in their cage. Mom was in another cage! It was grand fun but, I gotta tell ya, those baby tiger cubs were very enthusiastic to have a play toy and, as they crawled all over me and bit my hair and used me for a trampoline, I was so happy but thinking, "Ouch! Oh my!" because their young teeth were so sharp as were their claws!

 

That sanctuary has black leopards, snow leopards, white tigers, Siberian tigers, and my favourite cougar. Most of them were rescued from arrested drug dealers who threw their drug stashes in the cages, fed them hamburgers and French fries, almost ruined their health. So I have no great impulse to go on safari in Africa to see animals in the wild. And, being a teetotaller, wineries are not on my tour list. Having said that, if anyone can give me a specific label of wine to bring home for culinary use, I would be happy for the information.

 

Ruby

[Saga Ruby]

Marion - where did you visit in Poland? Did you go to the sites of the death camps? In the 70s and 80s, I read extensively about the Holocaust to attempt to understand why it was allowed to happen. I was deeply disturbed by the reality of man's inhumanity to man altho' I recognize that instances of this nature have occurred since man climbed out of the primordial ooze.

 

There is a film documentary of several hours entitled "Shoah." Much of the filming was done covertly and, in one scene where an old man who was a guard at one the camps was being interviewed, his laughter about the deaths in the showers remains burned, seared into my memory.

 

Because of all this, I feel that I cannot visit the sites of the camps nor Poland. When I go to Cape Town, I will not be visiting Robben Island where Mandela was jailed because all I would do is tear up. While I accept that cruelty exists, I cannot let it get into my mind or it will take months for the memory to go away.

 

What did you see in Poland? And did you go to Robben Island?

 

Ruby

Edited August 22, 2012 by Saga Ruby

[Host Sharon]

I would be interested in how Poland feels now. I visited Gdansk back in the 1970s when it was still under communist rule. The people were lovely and clearly enjoyed having English and US visitors there but I spent much of the visit terrified I would upset a policeman or somesuch and get locked up!

 

Like Ruby I read extensively about the concentration camps (especially the works of Leon Uris) and don't think I would like to visit but admire those who do. It was bad enough standing at the Holocaust Memorial in Boston. As an aside, there was a fascinating programme on TV the other night about the mother of the Duke of Edinburgh. She was a very interetsing woman who struggled with mental health issues and was locked up for a period, but who hid Jews in Athens during WWII. She is buried on the Mount of Olives.

[Kapricorn]

I recently finished reading the book Shipstyle. The Michelangelo and Raffaello "were intended purely for year-round trans-Atlantic service. Thus, to offer better storm protection, few cabins in the hull had portholes and so most were effectively inside rooms."

 

However, two first-class cabins in the forward section of the superstructure suffered damage when Michelangelo plowed into a huge wave in April 1966 while enroute to New York. Here are pictures which I found on Internet, showing the approaching huge wave, the impact over the bow and damage to the superstructure. Two passengers were killed in their cabins, as well as a crewman who attempted to cover a hold ventilator broken off by the wave.

 

 

Never underestimate the power of the sea.

 

Donald.

[Conte Di Savoia]

I remember when this event occurred. I was away in college but my parents went into Manhattan to view the damage to the ship and then called me up to give a full report of Michelangelo’s sorry state. The cabin which I had occupied was destroyed during the storm. The captain said the ship was never in danger of sinking, but I think the threat was there. On a subsequent voyage I spoke to a woman who had been a passenger on this crossing. She described the stark terror they all went through. The passengers were huddled together in the lounges sitting on the floor. It was impossible to stand up and walk anywhere. One of the passengers with a forward cabin shown in the picture, had returned to his stateroom to enjoy the view of the ship being tossed around. Bad choice. He was killed.

[Saga Ruby]

Never underestimate the power of the sea.

Donald.

 

Thanks for sharing these photos. They are quite sobering, as you say, about the negative effects of Mother Nature.

 

On Saga Rose, a tablemate used a walker to get around the ship. Although we experienced very high seas, nothing stopped her. However, seeing Donald's pix, I've been thinking about her assigned handicap cabin which was literally in the prow of the ship with one porthole far above her bed.

 

Altho' it is old news, I never fail to be fascinated with proof of the power of the ocean to peel back steel.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

One of the passengers with a forward cabin shown in the picture, had returned to his stateroom to enjoy the view of the ship being tossed around. Bad choice. He was killed.

 

What a small world, Conte, having previously been in that cabin before it was wrecked!

 

Might the victim have been Mr J. Steinbach, 58-year-old widower and insurance executive from Chicago? He was the father of three children. In the next cabin were Mr and Mrs Werner Berndt of Hamburg, Germany. The man was killed and his wife injured. Perhaps they had the same idea, to look through their windows at the sea's fury? Bad idea ... always err on the caution of safety.

 

With these two passengers named, I also should respect the crew member to identify him ... he was Desidero Ferrari of Italy. After the wave struck, he was in a group of seamen attempting to cover a hold ventilator that was broken off by the wave. Perhaps he slipped and fell against the ventilator, as I imagine that the deck would have been slippery with water.

 

Four passengers (including Mrs Berndt) and 6 other crew members were injured. Michelangelo had left Genoa on April 6 with 775 passengers.

 

I have wondered about the latest about Mrs Berndt. I have no idea how old she was at that time, as the news articles did not give their ages.

 

Donald.