Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Saga Ruby]

I say "never say never." I would consider flying to Europe and take two cruises at the same time - Mediterranean and North Sea. My two pet cats will be seven years old next September. It's possible that after they eventually go to the Great Catnip Cafe in the Sky I might take a cruise around South America or even a world cruise. Who knows?Regards,Donald.

 

I have my daughter's two cats. She moved to San Francisco some years ago and somehow I still have them here in Texas and my daughter now has two dogs. One of the cats is eight and one is 19.5 years old. The older one (a tuxedo cat) is in flawless shape - you would never guess her age. I have a theory she will be peering over into the hole into which my casket is lowered. So I keep on travelin' and paying the teenager across the street to be the cat care lady while I'm gone. It's a great arrangement.

 

About joining CC - I joined in March 2003 under my real name. Being in a message forum was entirely foreign to me but I enjoyed it for the vast reservoir of fresh information on these boards. When I came back from the Connie, I learned about Saga Cruises but could never find any info on that cruise line on CC so I drifted away and was off the boards for about two years.

 

After my Saga Ruby cruise, I came back to CCritic but the Sign In said my name and password was already being used! So I became a "new" member as Saga Ruby. By the bye, nobody knows this story so keep it under your hat. Shhhh!

 

Ruby

[dougnewmanatsea]

I assume that all the passengers who had to sign the contract to sail on the Italian line did so.

Don't most cruise lines still require you to sign a passage contract? I even had to "e-sign" my Celebrity e-ticket.

 

But come to think of it I don't recall signing anything for my recent Cunard or Orient Lines voyages (and those had paper tickets, too). So I guess it depends on the line.

 

One thing is for sure, I've never had gorgeous tickets like those Italian Line ones! The Italians know how to do things with style, that's for sure.

 

the word quickly got around that those physically fit guys who never spoke to us were Israeli security guards.

Interesting. On British ships they have typically been Ghurkas!

 

On Nautica, our passenger complement was 30% American, 30% Canadian, and 30% internationals, which I very much enjoyed.

Reminds me of the typical Orient Lines mix, 1/3 North American, 1/3 British, 1/3 Australian/NZ. Lovely.

[Saga Ruby]

Interesting. On British ships they have typically been Ghurkas!

 

I have wondered in the past why it has become fashionable on Cruise Critic to misspell "Gurkha," the ferocious Nepalese soldiers so effective as British troops during The Raj in India. As Host Doug has indicated, Gurkhas are quite active in the fields of military service and security. And now I'm curious about what security service handles Saga Cruises so I shall report back.

 

I take this occasion to make an appreciative nod to the spirit and pride of the Gurkhas, Nepalese men whose dedication and courage I admire.

 

Ruby

[Druke I]

The effectiveness of the Gurkha Soldier goes far beyond The Raj - they have been a mainstay of the British Special Operations up to and including present Middle East conflicts.

[Conte Di Savoia]

I sympathize with those who have pets they have to leave behind. Our two dachshunds and cat are now in heaven and although I would love to replace them we have resisted the temptation largely because we travel so much. We no longer have kids in the neighborhood who are very willing (for a price) to watch them for us. This reminded me, though, of trips past when passengers regularly brought their best friends with them. At the beginning of this thread I talked about the dog show aboard one sailing of the Leonardo da Vinci. In searching for the tickets from that crossing I came across the daily program which listed the event. Here it is:

Dog Show

In Italian it appeared as the much more melodious "Esposizione canina".

[dougnewmanatsea]

I have wondered in the past why it has become fashionable on Cruise Critic to misspell "Gurkha,"

My guess is it has something to do with the keyboard layout, usually the case when you see the right the letters in the wrong order.

 

Either that or I've seen it misspelled so many times, the incorrect spelling sunk into my subconscious ;) ...

 

In Italian it appeared as the much more melodious "Esposizione canina".

Everything sounds better in Italian doesn't it?

[Saga Ruby]

I have given strict instructions to my newly sweet-sixteen kitty daycare sitter that she is welcome to go to college, get a job, marry, have children, but she must remain within driving distance of my house at all times. When the world’s greatest black Labrador Retriever died in 1989, I said, "No more pets." When will I ever learn never to say never again?

 

Thank you for posting that Italian Line program (programme?) which flawlessly reflects the pace, style, and civility which I seek in each cruise. A burst of memories swept over me when I read it. There is no more classic example of days gone by in classic cruising than the list of daily events. I dread the day onboard when I hear a cellphone ring, hear iPods blasting in ears on shore excursions, have to make room for a laptop in a deck chair. If I want e-fatigue, I’ll stay home. Give me the consommé, the hat contest, the "Broadcast Stereophonic Concert" any time.

 

On that particular cruise, what was your itinerary? I see that you were to disembark in the U.S., presumably the port of New York. Where did the voyage originate and did you have any ports of call on your way back to the States or was this a true transatlantic crossing?

 

A brief note that I will out of touch for a few days. On Saturday, I will be sitting on my front porch, wearing my lime green bowler as I await the courier delivery of "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows." I will be sad to see the saga end, but so appreciative of the many enjoyable hours of entertainment by such a fine writer.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Ruby: That's great about your 19.5-year-old cat still being in good health. In 1978 I adopted two kittens which I named Star and Wars (can you figure out why?). Star lived to 1993, and Wars to 1997, until three days after his 19th birthday. I really missed Wars after all these years together. In the meantime, in 1985, a friend gave me his cat Nastasha, so I had three cats in my household. After I took Nastasha to the vet for the last time in 2000, I came home to a suddenly empty and cold home. The very next day I went to a pet shop and adopted two kittens, which I still have (and enjoy).

 

Have a great time reading the Harry Potter book tomorrow! If you don't finish it by the time I head to Alaska on July 27, I'll hear from you after your return from the Saga Rose.

 

Conte Di Savoia: I really liked the simplicity of the events on the Italian Line programme. Nowadays, on Celebrity for example, the daily programmes are chock-full of activities, running two columns on two pages. Cruise lines seem to be scared of the possibility of passengers complaining about having "nothing to do."

 

Donald.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Nowadays, on Celebrity for example, the daily programmes are chock-full of activities, running two columns on two pages.

What I find most appealing about that Italian Line program is that most of the things listed aren't on-board revenue generation opportunities.

 

Today we have: art auctions, spa seminars, fitness classes, wine tastings... All either costing something or trying to sell something :rolleyes: !

 

But given the low fares we enjoy today I guess it's hard to complain... For those of us who don't participate in all that stuff, the people who do are subsidizing our fares :) !

[Saga Ruby]

For those of us who don't participate in all that stuff, the people who do are subsidizing our fares :) !

 

Which is why I do not cruise on certain cruise lines. I would wind up buying drinks all around for the entire cruise.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

I liked the advisory on the Italian Line programme: Every evening black tie is appreciated. What a polite way. Nowadays cruise programmes say required or requested (and are often ignored). I'm know that back in these days, no-one dared to appear in anything but black tie.

 

Also, notice on that programme that there were no activities scheduled between 12:30pm and 4pm. Passengers knew how to enjoy themselves.

 

I'm completely immune to enticements by onboard spa, casino, bingo, art auctions, wine-tastings, etc. A nice relaxing spot with a book and a drink is just the ticket for me.

 

Ruby, I don't understand. How might you end up buying drinks all around for the entire cruise (even tongue-in-cheek)? Only a few times have I purchased drinks for fellow passengers, in reciprocation.

 

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

Ruby, I don't understand. How might you end up buying drinks all around for the entire cruise (even tongue-in-cheek)? Only a few times have I purchased drinks for fellow passengers, in reciprocation.Donald.

 

On some of the "upscale" cruise lines, all drinks whether alcoholic or non-, are included in the price of the fare. Open up the fridge in your suite and help yourself, it's already paid for. I do not want to pay a premium price for items I do not use - or consume. I also took note of the line entry in the program that at 7:20pm, a daily news broadcast would be heard. I would like to hear Conte talk about that one.

 

I was smiling at your comment regarding ". . . black tie is appreciated" from Leonardo's program. Isn't it interesting that dress codes are now spelled out in black-and-white so they can be enforced?

 

Evidently we have drifted beyond the concept of a polite suggestion into the more firm written rules. Soon the interior door of a cabin will have a Notice that "guests are forbidden from clambering back and forth between balconies." I say it's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools can be so ingenious.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

On some of the "upscale" cruise lines, all drinks whether alcoholic or non-, are included in the price of the fare. Open up the fridge in your suite and help yourself, it's already paid for. I do not want to pay a premium price for items I do not use - or consume.

 

Thanks, Ruby, for the clarification. One of my friends once went to a pizza parlour with several co-workers, each of whom drank a number of beers. My friend is a teetotaller and had only a soft drink. Naturally he objected when the others suggested that they all split the bill evenly. He didn't want to help pay for the other's beers. That's pretty much what you were explaining about the all-inclusive fares.

 

Donald.

[bcscot]

Hello everyone.This is my debut on Cruise Critic.I have enjoyed reading the Cruise Critic boards & features for a year or two now,using my wife's user name,but I have never before been inspired to take part,until now. I think that this is a wonderful thread.The discussions are interesting,intelligent,informative & entertaining.I especially enjoy Ruby's rich use of language & subtle sense of humour. I have been working my way through the pages like a good book that is difficult to put down,all the time,my memories coming flooding back.It leaves me with a good feeling;sort of warm & fuzzy!Wonderful escapism.Thank you all. People 'of a certain age' are frequently far more interesting to listen to.The years of experience & maturing like a fine wine! I am but a lad of 49.However next year I will be 50 & the only thing I look forward to about that is of course................I will be mature enough to sail on the Saga sisters which I have wanted to do for over 20 years. The only problem here is- I cannot type.Search & pluck......search & pluck!!! I haven't sorted out this spacing thing yet either.When I have another free two or three hours to type another message,I have some questions to ask! phew!!!

[Conte Di Savoia]

On that particular cruise, what was your itinerary?

This was a true transatlantic crossing on the "Sunny Southern Route" (Italian Line) as opposed to the "Sun Lane" (American Export Line). This was a return voyage on the Leonardo from Genoa. The ship departed from there in the morning, sailed along the Riviera and stopped in Cannes in the late afternoon for about an hour to board more passengers. The ship sailed overnight to Naples where more passengers embarked. The next day was at sea and then there was another brief stop in Gibraltar to take on a few more passengers. The ship was at anchor in Cannes and Gibraltar. It was a thrill to watch cars being off-loaded from the tenders and placed in the hold of the ship. I remember a Cadillac having its fins decapitated as it drifted into the side of the ship during one of these maneuvers. The ship then headed out into the Atlantic sailing through the Azores and a final landing in New York six nights after the Gibraltar departure. It was a total of nine nights since departing Genoa. Notice the price on the tickets. It was $510 pp for the crossing in a first class cabin. The price structure was very different in those days. Whether you were on the ship for the nine night crossing from Genoa or the six night crossing from Gibraltar, the price was the same!!

I also took note of the line entry in the program that at 7:20pm, a daily news broadcast would be heard. I would like to hear Conte talk about that one.

Of course in those days there were no flat screen TV's in the cabins, in fact, the only cabins to have any TV's at all were the top two suites on the ship. The bars, however, had sets but there wasn't very much to watch, in fact, practically nothing until the early evening when one of the dining room section captains would read the latest wire news, first in Italian and then in English. The ship's newspaper was the major communications outlet. I have a few of those also. I've been trying to scan one to show, but it is oversized. It's quite interesting because articles and photos about the voyage were regularly published. Imagine having someone in the purser's office functioning as a reporter! I'll try to post an example.

A nice relaxing spot with a book and a drink is just the ticket for me.

And just give me an MP3 player with a recording of Gotterdammerung as the sun sets on the near empty deck. Twilight of the Gods indeed!!

Thank you for posting that Italian Line program (programme?)

Program (Am); Programme (Br); Programma (It).

I will be sitting on my front porch, wearing my lime green bowler as I await the courier delivery of "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows."

I hope Lord Voldemort gets his comeuppance! We'll know in just a few minutes from now.

[Kapricorn]

Program (Am); Programme (Br); Programma (It).

 

You've probably noticed that I used "programme," as English Canadians also use British spellings.

 

I'm amazed that the Leonardo passage fare was the same, no matter if passengers were on board for six or nine days. Of course, fares would be different for other categories of cabins, such the inside ones? When my mother and I had a tourist class oceanview cabin on the Empress of Canada in 1964, the fare was about $300 pp for the six-day transatlantic voyage.

 

Welcome, bcscot! Do you have a specific cruise of the Saga Sisters in mind?

 

Donald.

[bcscot]

Donald, I have known about the famous Saga & VistaFjords for many years but I first saw the SagaRuby in Ocho Rios,Jamaica in march 2005 shortly after she joined Saga.She was beautiful & such classic lines esp. for a 1970s ship.I watched her sail out to sea that evening with the warm glow of the setting sun reflecting off her.Talk about romance! The following year I saw Saga Rose in Copenhagen.I have longed to sail on those ships,always sometime in the future though.....until SOLAS. Next year we are booked on QE2,so hopefully it will be SagaRose sometime in 2009,to anywhere,but ideally North Africa or the Med. Graham

[Saga Ruby]

Hello everyone.This is my debut on Cruise Critic.I have enjoyed reading the Cruise Critic boards & features for a year or two now,using my wife's user name,but I have never before been inspired to take part,until now. I think that this is a wonderful thread.The discussions are interesting,intelligent,informative & entertaining.I especially enjoy Ruby's rich use of language & subtle sense of humour. I have been working my way through the pages like a good book that is difficult to put down,all the time,my memories coming flooding back.It leaves me with a good feeling;sort of warm & fuzzy!Wonderful escapism.Thank you all. People 'of a certain age' are frequently far more interesting to listen to.The years of experience & maturing like a fine wine! I am but a lad of 49.However next year I will be 50 & the only thing I look forward to about that is of course................I will be mature enough to sail on the Saga sisters which I have wanted to do for over 20 years. The only problem here is- I cannot type.Search & pluck......search & pluck!!! I haven't sorted out this spacing thing yet either.When I have another free two or three hours to type another message,I have some questions to ask! phew!!!

 

As Admiral of the Fleet of the Saga Sisters Nostalgia Cruise (harumph!), I am pleased to offer a warm Welcome Aboard to Mr. Graham BCScot. (Quick -how many ship's bells is that? Or bosun's whistles? Oh drat.)

 

We are here to serve, Graham. One suggestion I could offer to you about that dreaded "hunt and peck" manner of typing - start a document in Word with Verdana as the font (the official Cruise Critic font) and add to it as you have questions come to mind. Then you can cut-and-paste it into Cruise Critic. Now that I have your head swimming (no, no, I don't know what she's talking about!), another idea would be to post a simple list of questions. However, your posts look and read just fine to me so no worries. We're glad to have you join our group.

 

Conte, I'm scared to read the NYTimes, I'm afraid to watch any TV for fear of an unfortunate disclosure of Hallows. If UPS doesn't get here by noon, I'm off to B&N to buy a copy. I see you are a Wagner devotee - I am a Tchaikovsky fan. The music of Swan Lake, the sea hissing past my deck chair - it doesn't get any better than that. By any chance, did you see the Matthew Bourne production of Swan Lake? By the bye, back in the day, I distinctly remember men huddled around the glass case by the Purser's Office, reading the daily stock quotes to see how their fortunes were faring.

 

Donald - long after our family did the 10-week Grand Tour of Europe in 1957, I asked my father about the cost of the entire trip. He replied it was around $8,000. Another memory from that trip is how happy the bellhops were to receive an American dollar as a tip.

 

Ruby

[Druke I]

Yes, Ruby does have a good sense of humor, and she crinkles her nose when she laughs! Saw that several times while on Nautica, this past Nov/Dec., Istanbul to Singapore.

 

Ruby, the Arab horse cart driver in Cairo turned up his nose when I offered him a dollar tip for his horse. The fact that it was a coin (Sakajawea golden dollar) probably had a lot to do with it. Easier for them to convert paper money than coin. He readily accepted a $2.00 dollar bill.

 

The mighty dollar certainly is not what it once was, but that is a different story.

[bcscot]

Thank you for the grand welcome aboard Admiral Ruby.There is no icon here for genuflexing but consider it done! I hope that you enjoy your weekend with Harry Potter.

Thank you for the technical advice,most of which went straight over my head.However,not to worry,I speak more Tagalog than you by the sounds of things!!!

My mother was a teacher of dance,including ballet.Swan Lake was one of her favourites also,although her great favourite was Sleeping Beauty,which happened to be the first ballet that I ever saw.It was in Dunedin,New Zealand,performed by the Royal Ballet,Saddler's Wells.My mother trained children for the Scottish Ballet & did some of her training under Dame Margot Fontein (?spelling).

Speaking of my mother brings me to my first question.She used to talk about cruising on the Med. with her mother,I think it would have been in the 1930s.You mentioned the Stella Solaris,she sailed on the Stella Polaris.Would that be the same Stella Polaris that was latterly moored as a restaurant in Japan & recently sank while being moved? Anyone? Doug.?

She also talked about one very rough cruise on a ship she called the 'vomiting Venus'! Any ideas on this one?

In 1939 she was sent out to South Africa with her sister & cousin to visit their Aunt Helen who was a formidible old nursing matron in Jo'burg.On the way home war was declared & she told of helping to paint the ship grey.They also had to zigzag their way home incase of submarines!I do not know the ship but believe that it was probably a Union Castle ship.

So many old ships that I have just missed the chance of experiencing,including the last of the Union Castle line;the Dunnotter castle,a 1930s ship only recently sent on her final journey to the sub-continent.I do hope someone finds a home for the Rose.So sad about the France/Norway.France should have given her a home & a graceful retirement.Dubai cannot be short of a spare dollar or two.Imagine the France & QE2 side by side in graceful retirement!What a pair.Also,the fact that Carnival had no interest in preserving the old Empress Of Canada,their first ship,is a testament to the lack of soul in that organisation.At least the QE2 & the old Rotterdam will be around for people to experience in the future along with the Qeen Mary,the Victory,the Cutty Sark(I hope),the Royal Yaught Brittania (sorry,I have a mental blank there on spelling & no dictionary handy) & others.How about the United States? Another national let down?

[dougnewmanatsea]

Speaking of my mother brings me to my first question.She used to talk about cruising on the Med. with her mother,I think it would have been in the 1930s.You mentioned the Stella Solaris,she sailed on the Stella Polaris.Would that be the same Stella Polaris that was latterly moored as a restaurant in Japan & recently sank while being moved? Anyone? Doug.?

Yes, that would be the same STELLA POLARIS. Such a tragedy that she sank :( . She was a beautiful ship.

 

Originally she was built for BDS (Det Bergenske Dampskibs Selskab/The Bergen Steamship Company, aka "Bergen Line"). BDS was one of the three original founders of Royal Viking Line; their ship was ROYAL VIKING STAR and her observation lounge was called the Stella Polaris Lounge. Later this name was appropriated by Kloster for the observation lounge on ROYAL VIKING SUN though BDS was out of the picture by then.

 

Of course STELLA POLARIS and STELLA SOLARIS had no relation other than similar names, the former meaning "Polar Star" and the latter "Solar Star" (a fancy way of saying the Sun ;) ). Sun Line's ships were all "Stellas", the others being STELLA OCEANIS ("Ocean Star") and two ships called STELLA MARIS ("Sea Star").

 

She also talked about one very rough cruise on a ship she called the 'vomiting Venus'! Any ideas on this one?

This would have been another BDS ship, the VENUS of 1931, a lovely little 5,000 GT, two-funnel motorliner built for Bergen-Newcastle service but also used for cruising. Unlike STELLA POLARIS which was sold to the Swedish Clipper Line after the war, VENUS - which was a dual-purpose short-sea liner and cruise ship - stayed with BDS until being broken up in 1968. Interestingly, VENUS was sunk during the war but raised and repaired, enabling that long post-war career.

 

The name VENUS was a traditional BDS name and was the summertime name of BLACK PRINCE from 1970 to 1986 when used by BDS on the Bergen-Newcastle service (except 1984-1986 when she was chartered by BDS to DFDS for Harwich-Esbjerg service). Her sister was originally built in 1966 under joint BDS and Fred. Olsen ownership and used from 1966 to 1986 in the summer as BDS's JUPITER and in the winter as Fred. Olsen's BLACK WATCH (not the current one!). The identical BLACK PRINCE had also been built in 1966 but was initially owned solely by Fred. Olsen; however, when the larger BLENHEIM entered Olsen service in 1970, they sold half of BLACK PRINCE to BDS as well under the same arrangement as her sister and it was then that she began to seasonally take on the name VENUS.

 

When the joint ownership agreements ended in 1986, BDS got JUPITER/BLACK WATCH (now an accommodation ship in Dubai after being used as a ferry by numerous operators) and Olsen got VENUS/BLACK PRINCE, converting her into a full-time cruise ship which she remains today and will be until SOLAS does her in in 2010.

 

All that is really neither here nor there, but just a bit of history about the name VENUS and BDS in general.

[bcscot]

That was very interesting & informative.Thank you.Was the Stella Polaris given that name by BDS or Sun Line?You said Viking used the name for lounges but Sun Line used the name Stella for their ships?Confusing.

[Kapricorn]

BCScot - here's a photograph of the Venus (click on the attachment). As you can see, she was not a substantial ship. Nevertheless, I imagine that she was a cozy one - as long as the seas were calm!

 

Donald.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Was the Stella Polaris given that name by BDS or Sun Line?

STELLA POLARIS was never owned by Sun Line. She was built by BDS and later operated by Clipper Line (Swedish) before she went to Japan.

 

Sun Line had ships called STELLA SOLARIS, STELLA OCEANIS and STELLA MARIS. No relation to BDS or Clipper though.

 

You said Viking used the name for lounges but Sun Line used the name Stella for their ships?Confusing.

Yes, the ROYAL VIKING STAR and ROYAL VIKING SUN each had a Stella Polaris Lounge as a tribute to the original STELLA POLARIS. (BDS was one of the original joint venture partners in Royal Viking; each owned one ship and ROYAL VIKING STAR was the one owned by BDS. ROYAL VIKING SUN was built later, after the original partners were bought out by Kloster, but Kloster elected to re-use the name from that popular lounge on ROYAL VIKING STAR on their new ship.)

[bcscot]

Thanks Donald for that super picture of the Venus,in calm waters! She reminds me of my first cruise ship,the Ocean Islander.Does anyone remember her?Ocean Cruise Lines,along with the Ocean Princess,owned by Gerry Herrod,later owner of Discovery.Islander was also only 5000tons.In 1986 while between jobs,I worked on the Islander for almost three months.We made two atlantic crossings & at only 5000 tons,it was a little bumpy in places.We covered a lot of sea during that time;Med.,Atlantic,North Africa,West Africa,South America & the Caribbean.It was quite an experience for a young fella.She was definately not a behemoth Ruby! Now sailing out of East Africa as the Royal Star......until SOLAS.